Immoveable and Heavy-Armor Stealth

Raiketsu · August 2014

I'm normally the guy to hate on people crying for 'nerfs' in any game, and in every other aspect of this game I feel PVP is fairly well balanced.

However I have two issues:

The Heavy armor skill - Immovable

and Heavy armor stealth.

I'll start with the lesser of the two evils; Stealth

I realize this game was meant to be 'fair' regardless of armor choice allowing all players to play how they want without any overly detrimental effects.

However I do not believe people wearing heavy armor should be able to stealth on par with leather/cloth sometime's even better than them. Disregarding the medium armor and certain racial passives that improve stealth slightly, in no way should someone wearing full plate be as silent as someone wearing skin or cloth, it's metal, it's going to clank against itself or an object on the floor no matter how good you are.

To put it simply I feel there should be at least a SLIGHT decrease in stealth ability when wearing 2 or more pieces of heavy armor. It just doesn't make sense otherwise, even if it's only a few meters, no way, ever, should full plate catch anyone paying any attention off guard.

And Immoveable...

This ability is somewhat of a plague to PVP. I think I realize it's implementation was meant to stop the WoW Endless-CC chaining so that you can't literally be stun-locked to death, however it's having an inverse impact - It's both making any form of CC utterly useless (with the immunity granted) as well as has a very very minor 'cost' to use, especially in a build that doesn't use a lot of stam-based skills, making it a nearly infinite wall against CC of any kind.

That isn't it's only pvp sin.. On top of making CC useless, with little/no cost - it grants a MASSIVE resistance boost making anything you CAN do against them nearly useless as it tickles the enemy for next to nothing, and your hardest hitting abilities hot as strongly as your weakest when not resisted.

Most of you at this point, knowing net-trolls are going to reply with "Get good, and/or get Immovable yourself"

That brings me to it's third sin... Essentially, if you DON'T use Immovable on every character you have for PVP you might as well not PVP in the first place - this takes away from freedom of play as you are practically required to have this skill in PVP if you don't want to get steamrolled by CC while taking full damage (minus your own natural resistances ofc)

I think a fair solution would be either:

A) Remove the resistance buff (For pvp only) so that atleast if you cannot CC them you're able to do more than tickle their sides while they sit inside 'Immovable' infinitely until you're dead.

Instead of complete-and-utter immunity to CC, it will block a "CC type" once per use. EG; Use Immovable, you are now Immune to the next Stun, Immobilize, Disorient, Concussion, Knockback. and Silence/Interrupt Once 'each.' (meaning it will block each of those, and any CC I missed once per individual CC but if you are hit with a stun, then a stun, the second stun will actually stun you though you'll still be immune, once, to all the 'other' cc types until you use Immovable again (which would prevent it being used Infinitely.)

C) Instead of outright blocking CC, it will reduce it's duration by 50%

D) Reduce the effect/duration of Immovable by 50% and double the cost when not wearing atleast 4/5 Heavy Armor (As it doesn't make sense that someone wearing full cloth suddenly becomes a super-tanky beast that shrugs off everything)

This ability is part of why Vampires as well can literally take on an entire squad/platoon by themselves... Pop Immoveable, hit a few people, tank a few hits, pop swarm, full health.

Tintinabula · August 2014

I sort of see what you mean but if they said I absolutely had to wear 5 pieces of heavy armor tomorrow in order to use immovable..Id simply substitute heavy for a more magika heavy set or even keep the set I use and make it heavy and get added armor to boot!(Ive actually considered this already while altering my attributes slightly)

Secondly..we have spellcrafting coming..and unless they're gonna make spell crafting class specific..you're gonna see ppl making a "muffle" spell which makes you even harder to detect....jussayin.

Sharee · August 2014

There is a slight decrease in stealth ability when wearing non-medium armor, as long as you don't disregard medium armor passives.

(whether that passive is enough, or indeed works at all, is a different debate...)

Skafsgaard · August 2014

I think immovable is fine, now please make it work against talons too

What actually would be interesting is a sort of universal dispel magic, universal meaning it isnt class specific and could be in a world skill line like soul magic. That would be a counter to immovable.

I rather like this way of doing stuff, instead of nerf nerf nerf - introduce a counter and let it balance itself out.

Cody · August 2014

I agree about the stealth part.

Lord_Draevan · August 2014

I find it's absurd you can use any armor ability (i.e Annulment for Light or Immovable for Heavy) even without a single piece of that armor equipped. People running around in 7/7 Light able to use a Heavy armor ability makes no sense. Just make Immovable 5/7 or 7/7 Heavy required and it'll go away real fast. AoE blobs won't be willing to give up their Light passives, after all.

Kewljag_66_ESO · August 2014

Raiketsu wrote: »

I'm normally the guy to hate on people crying for 'nerfs' in any game, and in every other aspect of this game I feel PVP is fairly well balanced.

However I have two issues:

The Heavy armor skill - Immovable

and Heavy armor stealth.

I'll start with the lesser of the two evils; Stealth

I realize this game was meant to be 'fair' regardless of armor choice allowing all players to play how they want without any overly detrimental effects.

However I do not believe people wearing heavy armor should be able to stealth on par with leather/cloth sometime's even better than them. Disregarding the medium armor and certain racial passives that improve stealth slightly, in no way should someone wearing full plate be as silent as someone wearing skin or cloth, it's metal, it's going to clank against itself or an object on the floor no matter how good you are.

To put it simply I feel there should be at least a SLIGHT decrease in stealth ability when wearing 2 or more pieces of heavy armor. It just doesn't make sense otherwise, even if it's only a few meters, no way, ever, should full plate catch anyone paying any attention off guard.

And Immoveable...

This ability is somewhat of a plague to PVP. I think I realize it's implementation was meant to stop the WoW Endless-CC chaining so that you can't literally be stun-locked to death, however it's having an inverse impact - It's both making any form of CC utterly useless (with the immunity granted) as well as has a very very minor 'cost' to use, especially in a build that doesn't use a lot of stam-based skills, making it a nearly infinite wall against CC of any kind.

That isn't it's only pvp sin.. On top of making CC useless, with little/no cost - it grants a MASSIVE resistance boost making anything you CAN do against them nearly useless as it tickles the enemy for next to nothing, and your hardest hitting abilities hot as strongly as your weakest when not resisted.

Most of you at this point, knowing net-trolls are going to reply with "Get good, and/or get Immovable yourself"

That brings me to it's third sin... Essentially, if you DON'T use Immovable on every character you have for PVP you might as well not PVP in the first place - this takes away from freedom of play as you are practically required to have this skill in PVP if you don't want to get steamrolled by CC while taking full damage (minus your own natural resistances ofc)

I think a fair solution would be either:

A) Remove the resistance buff (For pvp only) so that atleast if you cannot CC them you're able to do more than tickle their sides while they sit inside 'Immovable' infinitely until you're dead.

Instead of complete-and-utter immunity to CC, it will block a "CC type" once per use. EG; Use Immovable, you are now Immune to the next Stun, Immobilize, Disorient, Concussion, Knockback. and Silence/Interrupt Once 'each.' (meaning it will block each of those, and any CC I missed once per individual CC but if you are hit with a stun, then a stun, the second stun will actually stun you though you'll still be immune, once, to all the 'other' cc types until you use Immovable again (which would prevent it being used Infinitely.)

C) Instead of outright blocking CC, it will reduce it's duration by 50%

D) Reduce the effect/duration of Immovable by 50% and double the cost when not wearing atleast 4/5 Heavy Armor (As it doesn't make sense that someone wearing full cloth suddenly becomes a super-tanky beast that shrugs off everything)

This ability is part of why Vampires as well can literally take on an entire squad/platoon by themselves... Pop Immoveable, hit a few people, tank a few hits, pop swarm, full health.

I think most people agree that this skill should require you to use heavy armor. Currently everyone ad their mom runs around in light armor with all the offensive benefits while really having no defensive disadvantage because they use Immoveable.

I think the best thing for the game would require armor skills to actually have to use 5 pieces of that armor type

Galrukh · August 2014

The resistance part of Immovable actually means next to nothing, at least when fighting people wearing light armor because the passive ignores almost all spell resistance you can get (and soft cap + immovable gets you nowhere near high enough to override that).
Make it so you have to wear 5/7 heavy armor to use it and it will be fine.

jackyd · August 2014

Skafsgaard wrote: »

I think immovable is fine, now please make it work against talons too

What actually would be interesting is a sort of universal dispel magic, universal meaning it isnt class specific and could be in a world skill line like soul magic. That would be a counter to immovable.

I rather like this way of doing stuff, instead of nerf nerf nerf - introduce a counter and let it balance itself out.

There is, it is called Purge and can be found in the support skill line

Jaxom · August 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

I find it's absurd you can use any armor ability (i.e Annulment for Light or Immovable for Heavy) even without a single piece of that armor equipped. People running around in 7/7 Light able to use a Heavy armor ability makes no sense. Just make Immovable 5/7 or 7/7 Heavy required and it'll go away real fast. AoE blobs won't be willing to give up their Light passives, after all.

I agree and am actually surprised they haven't changed this yet. Make it so you need to wear at least 4 pieces (the majority) in order to use it. I can't use Healing Springs if I don't have a staff equipped, even though it's unlocked, why should you be able to use an Armor ability if you don't have said armor on. It's back asswards.

TheFamousMockingbird · August 2014

I agree and am actually surprised they haven't changed this yet. Make it so you need to wear at least 4 pieces (the majority) in order to use it. I can't use Healing Springs if I don't have a staff equipped, even though it's unlocked, why should you be able to use an Armor ability if you don't have said armor on. It's back asswards.

/signed

RedTalon · August 2014

The only thing about armor is balance and making some skills and passives only work when your wearing full suits of that armor type
.

But the sheath bonus for heavy is not there, unless someone is completely unfocused or already in combat its tricky to get the jump on someone without dark cloaking then hitting ambush or something else.

Orchish · August 2014

Heavy armour is already out of favour as is, making it harder for players that do use it would kill it off completely. Many organised groups and even gankers rely on stealth as it plays such a major role in PvP. Nerfing this would be a big disadvantage to the user.

As for Immovable, it should be available only to those wearing 5 pieces of heavy armour or more. This change alone would make heavy armour a more attractive option. Right now heavy armour is the worst of the 3 and certainly does not need any more things to turn people away from it.