Will you cancel your subscription if the VR14 change is launched?
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Venereous44✭✭✭NoMaverick827 wrote: »
New content does not have to mean a level cap increase.Venereous44 wrote: »Isn't this a better problem than them not adding new content fast enough?
True.. but one can also say that you don't HAVE to upgrade your armor just because of the new cap. As plenty of others have said.. just about any VR12 armor will still be perfectly viable at 14. Heck, my armour has been an average of 5 levels behind as I'm still climbing to 12 and it gives me no issues, PVP or otherwise.2 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NoVenereous44 wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
New content does not have to mean a level cap increase.Venereous44 wrote: »Isn't this a better problem than them not adding new content fast enough?
True.. but one can also say that you don't HAVE to upgrade your armor just because of the new cap. As plenty of others have said.. just about any VR12 armor will still be perfectly viable at 14. Heck, my armour has been an average of 5 levels behind as I'm still climbing to 12 and it gives me no issues, PVP or otherwise.
True, so we have meaningless levels that do nothing for you, and equipment you don't have to upgrade. Why was the cap raised again?1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nofromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Something isn't right simply because Google shows large numbers like you are illiterately using wrong English: ignoring facts doesn't make them no longer facts.Please also note that this is the second time in this forum that you say "An MMO is a wrong term and a contraction of MMORPG and you should learn grammar", it's also the second time I have to educate you when you clearly could have done the search yourself in google. It's quickly getting old (guess it won't be old much longer since you claim you'll unsub when update 4 hits, "fingers crossed"). Please learn to read and do a simple google query.
Multiplayer means engaging in content with other players, interacting with or against them. They are not just there to "make the game feel alive" so it's normal to expect that some content will have to be done along with those players, you're just delusional if you think otherwise.
Mutiplayer doesn't mean 'engaging in content', since you like Google I'm sure you can find where this definition can be found:
"A multiplayer video game is a video game in which more than one person can play in the same game environment at the same time"
That says NOTHING about what if anything they have to do with each other, they're simply in the same game space .. and I already said do 'play with' others in some content quite readily so your strawman about my being 'delusional' is simply laughable.
Bla bla bla, you're wrong and you know it. MMO is a common, accepted and used term to describe a specific genre of games, it even has a wikipedia page where they say it's called MMO or MMOG.
So in fact and FYI, MMO is an abbreviation of MMOG and not MMORPG. Flaming people just because they use abbreviations and using the *** flame in the world "omg please learn english" just shows that you've no real arguments
(And that's actually sad 
)
As for multiplayer, in MMORPGs, 90% of time it involves grouping to clear content and this game does also. Once again, if you want to play a 100% solo game, don't play an MMORPG or at least not this one. You can also just unsub like you said you would after Update 4 hits
Edited by TehMagnus on August 21, 2014 3:59PM1 -
Desdemonte✭✭✭NoLevel cap increases are fine, but the rapidity they occur in this game is far from fine. They need to figure out lateral progression better, not just vertical . Hopefully the Champion System and Seasonal Gear will do that.0
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Rammi✭✭✭YesDesdemonte wrote: »Level cap increases are fine, but the rapidity they occur in this game is far from fine. They need to figure out lateral progression better, not just vertical . Hopefully the Champion System and Seasonal Gear will do that.
Interesting I would categorize both the Champion System and seasons gear as vertical, as they are tied to character progression which means they are required to be effective and thus its vertical.
Lateral progression in my mind are things like completing raids (to be clear not getting gear from raids, you know actually doing them for a challenge), obtaining achievements, becoming emperor in PVP, exploring, crafting (although until you reach max level this can also be vertical). As all of these are wonderful to achieve but if you don't do them it does not impact your effectiveness in game.
Edited by Rammi on August 21, 2014 4:49PMThe Champion System should have rewarded Champion Points based off of achievements and feats earned through excelling at end game content not grinding your life away vs mobs in order to stay competitive. This system is uncreative and is a great example of extremely lazy system design. Yes, you should be embarrassed1 -
Michael308✭✭✭NoI started playing ESO under the belief that an MMO, as opposed to a fixed single-player game, would continually expand. That means new zones, new gear and higher levelsEdited by Michael308 on August 21, 2014 4:53PMCourage is fear holding on a minute longer.2
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Stonesthrow✭✭✭✭Nos_tibob16_ESO wrote: »I hope VR cap goes up a fair bit yet, but I also hope that eventually it stops somewhere for good.
Look at the description of the Champion system coming in the Road Ahead or check out one of the earlier interviews with Paul Sage where he describes their plans for it in greater detail.
Few more VR levels, then they go away and you receive points for how high you got. The champion System comes in and then you get/use "Champion Points" or something like that and start to spend them on specific things for your characters skills. Kinda like TES games with the constellations.
Can't wait!
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Brasseurfb16_ESO✭✭✭✭NoHi all,
I rarely am one for rage-posts and in most cases I'm a fairly peaceful forum lurker, however this recent news of the incoming increase to VR ranks has really effected my desire to play this game any longer.
Many of us have already spoken our minds in other threads on this topic however I think it's important that ZOS understands how strongly some of us feel about this topic.
I will be cancelling my subscription if I feel that I am in any way forced to grind gear and/or further VR levels to competitively PvP.
What will you be doing and why?
I'm not going to quit a game because the lvl cap gets increased, that would be stupid. But I am mildly anoyed by the fact I'll have to wait for another 90 days at least to max out all traits I currently use for crafting... Seriously, couldn't they just make it a week (max) instead?
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Catches_the_Sun✭✭✭✭✭Yesnerevarine1138 wrote: »Have you played an MMO before?
Yes...DAOC for 5 years. In the 5 years I've played it, and the years since I left, they have yet to increase the level cap one time. Not once. You see, they figured out how to make the game compelling without using new levels as the reason to play. IMO, if a game has to use levels to keep people interested, then there is a design flaw somewhere. By Zenimax's own admission, in different words, that flaw is in their gear progression system. It is not designed well enough to NOT use level increase as the progression.
For those of you that enjoy this play style cycle where you grind out levels, then grind out gear, then wait for new levels & gear, then repeat the cycle...I can't figure out why you enjoy this. Your gear that you work so hard for becomes obsolete and you begin again the cycle. It's like banging your head against the wall for kicks. It is a sad thing that this has become the norm for MMOs.
My frustration mostly comes from the fact that I want to be a primary PvP player like I did in DAOC for years. There are a few things preventing me from doing that here. First, there hasn't been a single day since launch where PvP is running smoothly. At any given time, there has been a near game-breaking exploit, bug, or stability issue (FPS, crashes, etc). Those things I can even overlook if there is some light at the end of the tunnel, and quite frankly there hasn't been. Second, ESO is increasing their level cap at a pretty high rate considering the work that you put in for your end game gold gear and grouping at the higher VR levels to reach cap without exploiting. This means that a PvP player is forced to PvE, for gold, gear and experience gains. I was originally very excited to play ESO when I learned the DAOC guys were involved in development. Apparently, they didn't understand what some of DAOC's best strengths were. Mark Jacobs does though.
I guess the bottom line is the level & gear chase is not what I signed up for and not what appeals to me as a gamer. I also feel strongly that a developer that increases their level cap every 2 months is not confident in their "end game" delivery. If they were, it wouldn't be a moving target.Edited by Catches_the_Sun on August 21, 2014 7:07PMCatches-the-Sun - Argonian Templar - Master Smith, Provisioner, Chemist & Tailor
Valaren Arobone - Dunmer Flamewalker - Master Woodworker, Provisioner, Assassin
Kazahad - Khajiiti Arcane Archer - Master Thief
V'orkten - Redguard Swordmaster
Finnvardr the Frenzied - Werewolf Berzerker3 -
Arthur_Spoonfondle✭✭✭✭No"Will you cancel your subscription if the VR14 change is launched?"
I'm gladdened to see the majority are not that stupid.0 -
Rammi✭✭✭YesCatches_the_Sun wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Have you played an MMO before?
Yes...DAOC for 5 years. In the 5 years I've played it, and the years since I left, they have yet to increase the level cap one time. Not once. You see, they figured out how to make the game compelling without using new levels as the reason to play. IMO, if a game has to use levels to keep people interested, then there is a design flaw somewhere. By Zenimax's own admission, in different words, that flaw is in their gear progression system. It is not designed well enough to NOT use level increase as the progression.
For those of you that enjoy this play style cycle where you grind out levels, then grind out gear, then wait for new levels & gear, then repeat the cycle...I can't figure out why you enjoy this. Your gear that you work so hard for becomes obsolete and you begin again the cycle. It's like banging your head against the wall for kicks. It is a sad thing that this has become the norm for MMOs.
My frustration mostly comes from the fact that I want to be a primary PvP player like I did in DAOC for years. There are a few things preventing me from doing that here. First, there hasn't been a single day since launch where PvP is running smoothly. At any given time, there has been a near game-breaking exploit, bug, or stability issue (FPS, crashes, etc). Those things I can even overlook if there is some light at the end of the tunnel, and quite frankly there hasn't been. Second, ESO is increasing their level cap at a pretty high rate considering the work that you put in for your end game gold gear and grouping at the higher VR levels to reach cap without exploiting. This means that a PvP player is forced to PvE, for gold, gear and experience gains. I was originally very excited to play ESO when I learned the DAOC guys were involved in development. Apparently, they didn't understand what some of DAOC's best strengths were. Mark Jacobs does though.
I guess the bottom line is the level & gear chase is not what I signed up for and not what appeals to me as a gamer. I also feel strongly that a developer that increases their level cap every 2 months is not confident in their "end game" delivery. If they were, it wouldn't be a moving target.
Great Post! Totally agree!
The Champion System should have rewarded Champion Points based off of achievements and feats earned through excelling at end game content not grinding your life away vs mobs in order to stay competitive. This system is uncreative and is a great example of extremely lazy system design. Yes, you should be embarrassed0 -
epoling✭✭✭✭NoCancelling your subscription because a game adds levels (especially meaningless ones) seems pretty silly. And if they didn't you would have a whole other group of people yelling that they are bored and that they need some kind of level increase to keep them happy. (Heck, some of them would undoubtedly be the folks yelling now because they are putting one in.) It seems like the caterwauling about this is a contrived issue by people on these forums just to continually be upset.0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes
People would complain about lack of content, but you can add content without increasing levels (source: every MMO ever).Cancelling your subscription because a game adds levels (especially meaningless ones) seems pretty silly. And if they didn't you would have a whole other group of people yelling that they are bored and that they need some kind of level increase to keep them happy. (Heck, some of them would undoubtedly be the folks yelling now because they are putting one in.) It seems like the caterwauling about this is a contrived issue by people on these forums just to continually be upset.
People complaining about a lack of level increase for the second time in three months is a non-scenario.1 -
Rammi✭✭✭YesCancelling your subscription because a game adds levels (especially meaningless ones) seems pretty silly. And if they didn't you would have a whole other group of people yelling that they are bored and that they need some kind of level increase to keep them happy. (Heck, some of them would undoubtedly be the folks yelling now because they are putting one in.) It seems like the caterwauling about this is a contrived issue by people on these forums just to continually be upset.
I will continue to maintain that "these people" who need levels to enjoy the game and would complain if ZOS did not do this will NEVER be happy. I see no valid reason why adding two new VR levels adds anything to the game other than a grind at this point!
People are so basic at times, Give them a glorious environment to explore, add a dungeon within it that you can run in different modes and provide achievements that require you to complete said dungeon in different ways is pointless. Add on a few VR levels and some gear to all of the above, YEAHH now we have real content.
Its total BS!
Level and gear grinding are a way to make people work instead of play because they either get more obsessed with having the next best thing or they feel like they have to do it to be competitive or to even partake in the new content when they should actually be having fun.
Now having new levels and gear that come as part of an expansion to the entire game, New zones, crafting, systems environments etc, I'm fine with as the game is changing significantly. This type of incremental bitsize addition of gear and levels ever 3 months seem a waste when they can still add content and new things to do but not create an artificial grind, that is not balanced out with a bunch of other changes which is going to significantly change my experience.
I can understand new gear with new set bonuses, even though i disagree with gear grinding as well but VR levels i just don't get. I don't understand why anyone gives a crap about the little progress bar so much to the point it prevents them from having a truly fulfilling experience.
Edited by Rammi on August 21, 2014 10:02PMThe Champion System should have rewarded Champion Points based off of achievements and feats earned through excelling at end game content not grinding your life away vs mobs in order to stay competitive. This system is uncreative and is a great example of extremely lazy system design. Yes, you should be embarrassed0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes
So is this one:BrassRazoo wrote: »Well this poll is lopsided in the most excellent way.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/127899/do-you-like-or-dislike-increasing-vet-ranks/p10 -
OccultOverload✭✭✭✭NoYou know you can level in PvP pretty effectively now (still not as good as it should be to make it truly viable), but it is possible. All MMOs increase their caps they may call it different things but at the end of the day giving people more goals makes people play longer, you are an exception when it comes to people who play MMOs. Meaning that the loss of your subscription is not going to hurt their bottom line. (Google Bartle's Player Types or Nick Yee if you are interested in research conducted on the psychology behind MMO players and how developers utilize them to make business decisions.)
In the end it will all be moot when they release the Champion System anyways...@OccultOverload
Aerilon Starsider - Best Sorcerer NA
World Record Trial Team Member & Game Breaker of Days Past0 -
BrassRazoo✭✭✭✭✭NoMaverick827 wrote: »
So is this one:BrassRazoo wrote: »Well this poll is lopsided in the most excellent way.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/127899/do-you-like-or-dislike-increasing-vet-ranks/p1
Not even close.0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes
Yeah, it's great that over 50% of the players dislike the biggest selling point of the next patch.BrassRazoo wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
So is this one:BrassRazoo wrote: »Well this poll is lopsided in the most excellent way.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/127899/do-you-like-or-dislike-increasing-vet-ranks/p1
Not even close.1 -
Resueht✭✭✭NoMaverick827 wrote: »
Yeah, it's great that over 50% of the players dislike the biggest selling point of the next patch.BrassRazoo wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
So is this one:BrassRazoo wrote: »Well this poll is lopsided in the most excellent way.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/127899/do-you-like-or-dislike-increasing-vet-ranks/p1
Not even close.
*50% of people on the forums who are willing to voice an opinion
If she doesn't know the pain of cliffracers, she's too young for you.0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes
Oh, so forum polls are completely accurate when they support your opinions, but not when they don't?Maverick827 wrote: »
Yeah, it's great that over 50% of the players dislike the biggest selling point of the next patch.BrassRazoo wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
So is this one:BrassRazoo wrote: »Well this poll is lopsided in the most excellent way.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/127899/do-you-like-or-dislike-increasing-vet-ranks/p1
Not even close.
*50% of people on the forums who are willing to voice an opinion
Legit.0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No
Thank god you didn't try to sell that exact same argument in reverse as your own just a few posts up.Maverick827 wrote: »Oh, so forum polls are completely accurate when they support your opinions, but not when they don't?
Because it totally sounded legit when you used it ...
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Resueht✭✭✭NoMaverick827 wrote: »
Oh, so forum polls are completely accurate when they support your opinions, but not when they don't?Maverick827 wrote: »
Yeah, it's great that over 50% of the players dislike the biggest selling point of the next patch.BrassRazoo wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
So is this one:BrassRazoo wrote: »Well this poll is lopsided in the most excellent way.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/127899/do-you-like-or-dislike-increasing-vet-ranks/p1
Not even close.
*50% of people on the forums who are willing to voice an opinion
Legit.
I have made no such claim so calm down. I would even say forum polls are a poor sampling of the user base in general.
I participate because I do think they are a good way to start conversations about topics. I'm not trying to delegitimize your claim, just pointing out that this was not a poll conducted by a wide enough playerbase to be able to make your claim with confidence.
If she doesn't know the pain of cliffracers, she's too young for you.0 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoMichael308 wrote: »I started playing ESO under the belief that an MMO, as opposed to a fixed single-player game, would continually expand. That means new zones, new gear and higher levels
*gasp*
NerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/160 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoNO- Good Game. Glad their expanding the rank / leveling structure. Shrug, what's the big deal?0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes
I don't know what you're talking about. I support both poll values.
Thank god you didn't try to sell that exact same argument in reverse as your own just a few posts up.Maverick827 wrote: »Oh, so forum polls are completely accurate when they support your opinions, but not when they don't?
Because it totally sounded legit when you used it ...0 -
stewie_801✭✭✭NoHi all,
I rarely am one for rage-posts and in most cases I'm a fairly peaceful forum lurker, however this recent news of the incoming increase to VR ranks has really effected my desire to play this game any longer.
Many of us have already spoken our minds in other threads on this topic however I think it's important that ZOS understands how strongly some of us feel about this topic.
I will be cancelling my subscription if I feel that I am in any way forced to grind gear and/or further VR levels to competitively PvP.
What will you be doing and why?
As far as having to grind to be competitive in PvP, I don't see that big of difference occurring. Currently on live I have no problem killing vet12s with my vet6 gear night blade. Didn't have a problem on my templar before I got to vet12. So if you feel you have to grind to vet14 as fast as possible, that is on you in my opinion. The small increase in stats is not that great, if that is why you lose a battle, something is wrong with your play style (again IMO).
Now if it is your thing to always have the absolute best gear possible, even if it is not much better, and want to get it as fast as possible, that is on you. I just have yet to see it as a necessity. I believe you can go about your normal play style and get to vet 14 when you do (either by PvP only, PvE only, or both).
I also think of this level cap increase as a bonus, due to the more champion points I will eventually get from it.PC/NA Ebonheart PactInvictus , Teut Spindle Your Brindle OfficerStewie the Destroyer Imperial Templar Former Emperor of Haderus
Stewie's Big Ole Johnson Khajiit Nightblade
Ser Arthur Dayne Dark Elf Dragonknight Former Emperor of Chillrend and Haderus
Stewie's Bank Slot High Elf Sorcerer1 -
Head.hunter✭✭✭For players who are v12, any added end-game content is welcome. The more you give us, the longer we play. Pvp is rarely one sided anyway, even when you max out your gear.I'm just a banana from another dimension.1 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭UndecidedI voted on my phone but I meant to say NOThat which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0