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Let's talk about the bow damage "bug".

IKilled007
IKilled007
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Hey all, your favorite forum bad guy here. First of all, as most of you know, I incurred a 3-day suspension for doing massive damage (up to 5500ish) with the bow, and then instead of apologizing and switching my build, I rubbed it in when people justifiably took offense. Well, I thought it would be a good idea to look at the bug and assess whether it's actually a bug or a build.

Admittedly, I am not a game mechanic expert or a master theory crafter like many of you. Many of you did not believe me when I said I did not know what was causing the damage or that I couldn't get rid of it. Both statements remain true, however. Anyway, here are some things to take into consideration:

1. I ran about 2400 Stamina and between 208 and 240 Weapon Power and 58% Crit.
2. I used the Panacea of Weapon Power pots.
3. My base damage with my bow skills were usually: Venom Arrow - 367, Lethal Arrow - 968. Those are both "Poison" damage.
4. Master Assassin passive gives 10% Weapon Damage from Stealth.
5. Hemorrhage gives 10% bonus Critical Strike Damage.
6. Long Shots passive gives 12% bonus damage to "distant" enemies.
7. Hawk Eye gives 15% increase damage from bows against off-balance players.
8. Juggernaut passive for 2 pieces of heavy (which I wear) gives 2% increase in Weapon Damage.
9. Slayer passive gives 9% increase in Weapon and Spell Damage against undead players.
10. Camouflaged Hunter against undead gives an automatic 760 damage from stealth and a 20% chance to hit for 507 damage unstealthed. (Not sure if this shows separately in the Death Recap.)
11. Continuous Attack adds 10% Weapon Damage for 10 min after capturing a resource or keep.
12. The Covenant bow can proc 107 base irresistible damage (crits for over 300) when charged.
13. I was using the Warrior mundus stone.
14. Piercing Mark removes 75% of an enemy's armor.

Now, I do not know the order of operations in calculating damage for ESO. But what I think would be an interesting discussion is for someone who is good with game mechanics and theory crafting to determine what the maximum one-hit damage can possibly be when a lethal arrow is loosed against a marked target, given the above. I really don't know what it ought to be able to hit for and I wish Zenimax game more guidance instead of being vague and nebulous about it.

Anyway, aside from sharing this and asking for people's opinions on damage, I wanted to apologize to those people against whom I used these massive hits. Since the damage is not meant to be that high (although no one in authority will give guidance on what the upper limit is meant to be), I was being unfair. And, I am sorry. And I am sorry for coming to the forums and rubbing it in. That was mean and uncalled for. So please accept my apology.

I have since reduced my Weapon Damage, swapped into light and medium armor, lowered my stamina, and taken Flawless Dawnbreaker off my bar, and this seems to have really lowered my bow damage. Lots of people have asked me what caused the "bug", and the truth is that I do not know and just assume it is related to weapon damage and stamina. Note that this is not the "scaling damage" bug. My damage did not climb and climb. It stayed in a range and never exceeded about 5500 to the best of my recollection.

Anyway, please accept my sincere apology. I would like someone to do the math on this though.

Regards,
Covert Ops
Edited by IKilled007 on August 21, 2014 5:41PM
The only substitute for victory is overkill.
  • Nala_
    Nala_
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    oh god, all the damage you did is already done, stop doing more damage to No Mercy.

    go post this on the appropriate forum if you ACTUALLY wanted to give ZOS or players info on the bug.
  • IKilled007
    IKilled007
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    Nala, go away. Not sure why you need to be involved in this discussion at all.
    The only substitute for victory is overkill.
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    It was a bug, not your combined stats..I've had close to those combined stats before.. and lethal arrow has come no where near 5400 damage.

  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    There is nothing wrong with bow damage, in fact is is soo weak that Zen has decided to buff it more. Yes in 1.4 lethal arrow is getting buffed to be more deadly.

    Could Dev's be any more out of touch?
  • Ifthir_ESO
    Ifthir_ESO
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    IKilled007 wrote: »
    Nala, go away. Not sure why you need to be involved in this discussion at all.


    They are the first person I had to ignore here. Nothing but constant venom aimed at any other poster, all while never admitting who they are or what they play.

    That user needs a joint or some nooky so they unclench already.
  • IKilled007
    IKilled007
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    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    IKilled007 wrote: »
    Nala, go away. Not sure why you need to be involved in this discussion at all.


    They are the first person I had to ignore here. Nothing but constant venom aimed at any other poster, all while never admitting who they are or what they play.

    That user needs a joint or some nooky so they unclench already.

    Nala is definitely a dimwit serioso drama queen. Very annoying person.
    The only substitute for victory is overkill.
  • Nala_
    Nala_
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    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    all while never admitting who they are or what they play.

    irony, neither have you despite hova asking you directly LOLLLL

    p.s take your fake apologies while still covering yourself in a desperate attempt to prove you didnt intentionally exploit, to the curb, because noone believes it
  • IKilled007
    IKilled007
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    Nala_ wrote: »
    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    all while never admitting who they are or what they play.

    irony, neither have you despite hova asking you directly LOLLLL

    p.s take your fake apologies while still covering yourself in a desperate attempt to prove you didnt intentionally exploit, to the curb, because noone believes it

    You take yourself, this game, and the banter on the forums way too seriously. I suspect autism.
    The only substitute for victory is overkill.
  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    IKilled007 wrote: »
    Nala_ wrote: »
    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    all while never admitting who they are or what they play.

    irony, neither have you despite hova asking you directly LOLLLL

    p.s take your fake apologies while still covering yourself in a desperate attempt to prove you didnt intentionally exploit, to the curb, because noone believes it

    You take yourself, this game, and the banter on the forums way too seriously. I suspect autism.

    Because comparing a neurodevelopment disorder to someone you disagree with is a totally fair point and doesn't make you look like a massive c**t
    Edited by Huntler on August 21, 2014 9:40PM
  • KBKB
    KBKB
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    IKilled007 wrote: »
    bad guy here.

    Well that bit was right, also lol'd so hard @ your ban.

    Justice almost as good as that post-coital cigarette.

    PS you're a grub.

    Just thought I would throw a link in here of the mentioned thread, gets really good on pages 4/5. You get a real insight to the sort of person covert is and how little that apology well and truly after the fact means.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/126936/lethal-arrow-hitting-4k-dmg/p4
    Edited by KBKB on August 21, 2014 10:27PM
  • IKilled007
    IKilled007
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    Black-Bird wrote: »
    IKilled007 wrote: »
    bad guy here.

    Well that bit was right, also lol'd so hard @ your ban.

    Justice almost as good as that post-coital cigarette.

    PS you're a grub.

    Just thought I would throw a link in here of the mentioned thread, gets really good on pages 4/5. You get a real insight to the sort of person covert is and how little that apology well and truly after the fact means.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/126936/lethal-arrow-hitting-4k-dmg/p4

    Another dimwit serioso drama queen self-identifies for our benefit. Thanks!
    The only substitute for victory is overkill.
  • KBKB
    KBKB
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    IKilled007 wrote: »
    Black-Bird wrote: »
    IKilled007 wrote: »
    bad guy here.

    Well that bit was right, also lol'd so hard @ your ban.

    Justice almost as good as that post-coital cigarette.

    PS you're a grub.

    Just thought I would throw a link in here of the mentioned thread, gets really good on pages 4/5. You get a real insight to the sort of person covert is and how little that apology well and truly after the fact means.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/126936/lethal-arrow-hitting-4k-dmg/p4

    Another dimwit serioso drama queen self-identifies for our benefit. Thanks!

    Anytime slugger, anytime.
    IKilled007 wrote: »
    Nala_ wrote: »
    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    all while never admitting who they are or what they play.

    irony, neither have you despite hova asking you directly LOLLLL

    p.s take your fake apologies while still covering yourself in a desperate attempt to prove you didnt intentionally exploit, to the curb, because noone believes it

    You take yourself, this game, and the banter on the forums way too seriously. I suspect autism.
    IKilled007 wrote: »
    GFY. I don't care what you believe. This is between Zenimax and me, and you're a nobody. Go play in your 4th rate guild and keep whining.

    You make it far too easy bro.
    Edited by KBKB on August 21, 2014 10:57PM
  • Strakand
    Strakand
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    IKilled007 wrote: »

    Anyway, aside from sharing this and asking for people's opinions on damage, I wanted to apologize to those people against whom I used these massive hits. Since the damage is not meant to be that high (although no one in authority will give guidance on what the upper limit is meant to be), I was being unfair. And, I am sorry. And I am sorry for coming to the forums and rubbing it in. That was mean and uncalled for. So please accept my apology.


    Regards,
    Covert Ops

    Thank you for the post Covert. When I started the original thread it was just to make sure that devs were aware of the bug, but not to call you out. In a way it ended up baiting you, which I apologize for. I am sorry that it became such a flame fest.

    I am mostly sorry for creating a thread for Nala to troll on, however.

    Thank you for being genuine to the community. I don't think anyone expected an apology. Hopefully, someone will take care of the math as well just to see what the average damage from you build should be.
  • IKilled007
    IKilled007
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    Strakand wrote: »
    IKilled007 wrote: »

    Anyway, aside from sharing this and asking for people's opinions on damage, I wanted to apologize to those people against whom I used these massive hits. Since the damage is not meant to be that high (although no one in authority will give guidance on what the upper limit is meant to be), I was being unfair. And, I am sorry. And I am sorry for coming to the forums and rubbing it in. That was mean and uncalled for. So please accept my apology.


    Regards,
    Covert Ops

    Thank you for the post Covert. When I started the original thread it was just to make sure that devs were aware of the bug, but not to call you out. In a way it ended up baiting you, which I apologize for. I am sorry that it became such a flame fest.

    I am mostly sorry for creating a thread for Nala to troll on, however.

    Thank you for being genuine to the community. I don't think anyone expected an apology. Hopefully, someone will take care of the math as well just to see what the average damage from you build should be.

    I appreciate that. But I accept full responsibility.
    The only substitute for victory is overkill.
  • Renuo
    Renuo
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    It's a damage scaling bug. My build is the same pretty much without camo hunter and never have sniped for 3k let alone 5.5.
    Dark Renuo - Nightblade - Daggerfall Thornblade
    Nightblade PVP - https://www.youtube.com/user/renuoz
  • Cody
    Cody
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    wait wait wait..... they acutally banned you for using this? ZOS actually CARES about someone using an exploit?! I had no idea!
    ok. in all seriousness, im positive its a bug, there is no way you can do 5K damage legitely, that's more health than even someone who put all attribute points into health, AND has the best health glyphs on, AND has food buffs, AND has emp alliance bonus, has. I doubt ZOS wanted to have insta kill abilities in the game. BUT, they do allow people to get thru closed gates and steal scrolls.... so I may be wrong:/
  • JackDaniell
    JackDaniell
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    Given the specs you quoted (achieving 240 weapon damage with a bow would require nearly all your gear and build to give weapon damage) I did the math.

    Your maximum lethal arrow critical damage = 3467 (rounded up)

    Assuming you get a stealth bonus from your weapon enchant (you do not) and it counts as a bow skill it will crit for 435 (rounded up)

    Camouflaged hunter crits for 1053 (rounded up)

    So the total theoretical maximum critical damage would be 4955. (6688 if you hit a werewolf)

    Now, this is all assuming that:

    - You have recently captured a recourse or keep (past 10 mins)
    - You always have camouflaged hunter active. (skill lasts 13 seconds)
    - All of your targets are undead (or werewolf with the appropriate passive)
    - All of your targets have 0 armor
    - All of your targets were at maximum range from you
    - All of your targets were off balance
    - All of these skills are displayed only as one "Lethal Arrow" on the death recap
    - All your gear and enchantments are legendary quality or better (I was very generous with the calculations)
    - You activated your potion within ~13 seconds before you initiated your attack
    - You have flawless dawn breaker slotted

    Now a few things I took away from your information, I don't think it is possible to achieve 240 weapon damage with your bow equipped, especially since you have 58% weapon crit chance (this includes potion use). You high stamina also makes me wary of these values, as you would need to invest quite a few set pieces into stamina (unless you did not invest anything in health and magicka, then this may again be possible). Now assuming you did infact achieve these numbers and the conditions were ideal then yes it would be possible to hit very hard with a lethal arrow. But if you really went to achieve this then that is all you build would be able to do. You would have no stamina, magicka, or health regen as well as no set pieces that gave you other unique bonuses to help you sustain yourself. You would also have to have a very low health and magicka pool.

    Essentially a build that would do this without a bug occurring to allow it, would be only good at shooting a lethal arrow, then hoping to return back to stealth before they are seen as it would get torn apart if it was visible. A build that did this would also need to meet every single one of the quoted conditions to even come close to dealing your quoted 5500 damage.

    With realistic values it is very unlikely that you will have these conditions met. Your damage may be able to achieve 3000 when hitting a werewolf with realistic conditions. Now to take into account that many people noticed you hitting for that amount, enough to raise discussion and warrant screen shots on the forums. Also most people block after they have been marked, so that would also have greatly reduced the number of people complaining of this.

    In short, it was not your build that was doing this damage, and yes you should not have been banned if it was a bug or your build. Unfortunately this bug has been occurring quite allot lately and many people have even unknowingly documented it. But claiming that it could be your build is very incorrect.

    Ebonheart Templar

    www.youtube.com/user/kristofersommermusic
  • IKilled007
    IKilled007
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    My Camo hunter crits for about 1150 out of stealth.
    The only substitute for victory is overkill.
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