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Caves, ruins, dungeons. All a big joke.
Tapio75
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All those monster infested dangerous dungeons and ruins, venture there and you risk your life. Ne cautious hence there be big evil monsters about.. Places long lost to others for you to discover.. NOT!
These dungeons and tuins should be atmospheric fantasy lands, while setting and things kuje that are there, they fail hard to deliver that atmosphere we have accustomed to from TES genre. Never there is anything dangerous, too many players at too high level viping everything clean.
Even bosses while reasonably dangerous when you are alone, pose no threat whatsoever since there is almost always 2-4 other players hacking & slashing it like mindless killing machines.
If there is treasure chest behind some monsters.. You kill monsters to get to treasure and POOF, someone else has been slacking behind you, just waiting for you to clean up so he or she can go and pick the lock and get everything inside. Other players lurking like vultures around the ches, only waiting for other player to fail on lockpicking.
Right now, these places are all like
1. Enter
2. Get mission
3. Open map (optional)
4. run through objectives
5. Exit
This has to change! All those instances should be available as solo instances as well. I assume many would like them much more if they could go there alone or with their own group of friends. Maybe even put up a small dungeon adventure RP event.
These dungeons and tuins should be atmospheric fantasy lands, while setting and things kuje that are there, they fail hard to deliver that atmosphere we have accustomed to from TES genre. Never there is anything dangerous, too many players at too high level viping everything clean.
Even bosses while reasonably dangerous when you are alone, pose no threat whatsoever since there is almost always 2-4 other players hacking & slashing it like mindless killing machines.
If there is treasure chest behind some monsters.. You kill monsters to get to treasure and POOF, someone else has been slacking behind you, just waiting for you to clean up so he or she can go and pick the lock and get everything inside. Other players lurking like vultures around the ches, only waiting for other player to fail on lockpicking.
Right now, these places are all like
1. Enter
2. Get mission
3. Open map (optional)
4. run through objectives
5. Exit
This has to change! All those instances should be available as solo instances as well. I assume many would like them much more if they could go there alone or with their own group of friends. Maybe even put up a small dungeon adventure RP event.
>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
7
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Stranglehands✭✭✭✭Making all the dungeons solo instances seems like a pretty drastic measure that runs counter to the whole idea of an MMO
I have to agree though, the violence sure does seem mindless and meaningless compared to something like skyrim. There's just so much of it and it's so unavoidable. The first character I made in skyrim was a nature witch who refused to kill animals (bandits, on the other hand, were my prey) and I used a lot of illusion magic to calm animals as I walked by. I was a bosmer so I could turn them against my enemies as well. There's no way you could do anything like that in eso.kcoR gnillaF si noitadnuoF esohw ETIYREP oT3 -
Welka✭✭✭✭✭Wait till you get to VR zones, you have all the dungeons, delves and group dungeons for yourself.10 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would love Cyrodiil dungeons if the bosses actually spawned at a reasonable rate. You never know who you might encounter in them. Usually nobody, since barely anybody actually goes in them, but you'll occasionally encounter enemy players, which adds an extra feeling of threat while in them.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job5 -
purple-magicb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Stranglehands wrote: »Making all the dungeons solo instances seems like a pretty drastic measure that runs counter to the whole idea of an MMO
I have to agree though, the violence sure does seem mindless and meaningless compared to something like skyrim. There's just so much of it and it's so unavoidable. The first character I made in skyrim was a nature witch who refused to kill animals (bandits, on the other hand, were my prey) and I used a lot of illusion magic to calm animals as I walked by. I was a bosmer so I could turn them against my enemies as well. There's no way you could do anything like that in eso
So true. Even for a thief to sneak by is impossible most of the time. Lets face it, NB weren't intended to go toe-to-toe with 4 berserker orcs at once on the battlefield. Sneaking and hidden, precisely targeted assassin strikes are their things. But these instances force them to go toe-to-toe with the likes of fully armored, battle-hardened brutes. It's not just lore-breaking but also stretching the limits of common sense. Speaking for myself as a DK, I seriously wouldn't complain if a NB got the drop on me (ie ambush) and one-shotted me cause its kinda their thing. Trained assassins. Face to face on the battlefield is a completely different story tho.Edited by purple-magicb16_ESO on August 20, 2014 1:12PMI don't comment here often but when I do, I get [snip]0 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭They don't give leveled loot so most people don't care about them.
In
Skyshard
Boss
Out
Loot scaled to the level of the player is the only change that will draw people in. I personally don't want complex labyrinthines that take 3-4 hours to complete. I am fine with 20 mins. I can log in, hit 3 dungeons and that is a good hour.
Within; Without.0 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I went into a VR1 public dungeon last night as a VR3 Templar. Killed a few of the bosses, stealthed around a harder one to grab a skyshard, did a couple quests. All in all it was a lot of fun and probably took about 30 minutes.
It felt like an ES game to me, and I enjoyed it. Better than a lot of Oblivion and Skyrim cookie cutter dungeons to be honest.Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All those monster infested dangerous dungeons and ruins, venture there and you risk your life. Ne cautious hence there be big evil monsters about.. Places long lost to others for you to discover.. NOT!
These dungeons and tuins should be atmospheric fantasy lands, while setting and things kuje that are there, they fail hard to deliver that atmosphere we have accustomed to from TES genre. Never there is anything dangerous, too many players at too high level viping everything clean.
Even bosses while reasonably dangerous when you are alone, pose no threat whatsoever since there is almost always 2-4 other players hacking & slashing it like mindless killing machines.
If there is treasure chest behind some monsters.. You kill monsters to get to treasure and POOF, someone else has been slacking behind you, just waiting for you to clean up so he or she can go and pick the lock and get everything inside. Other players lurking like vultures around the ches, only waiting for other player to fail on lockpicking.
Right now, these places are all like
1. Enter
2. Get mission
3. Open map (optional)
4. run through objectives
5. Exit
This has to change! All those instances should be available as solo instances as well. I assume many would like them much more if they could go there alone or with their own group of friends. Maybe even put up a small dungeon adventure RP event.
They cant make it challenging because they havent balanced the game. Challenging for a stam build might be faceroll for a magicka build. And challenging for magicka build could be impossible for stam builds.
Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on August 20, 2014 1:25PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.1 -
I agree with @jrgray93, the Cyrodiil delves are much more fun and involved, typically larger pack sizes and more bosses, however the boss spawn rates in the Cyrodiil delves can be trying at times...Edited by CharmCityGaming on August 20, 2014 1:40PM0 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I actually like the gradual change they are making to expand the delves somewhat and give them more variety. The solo dungeons in Cyrodiil are large and varied, and I consider them among the best designed content in the game. It's a shame that so few people actually go there, and it's a shame that there is no version of those dungeons where you can get rid of the risk of being ganked by an enemy faction player who runs past all the mobs you killed (the respawn rate is very slow in Cyrodiil delves) only to stab you in the back, rob you of the opportunity to fight the boss and force you to revive half-way across the map at a faction-controlled keep instead of right at the spot or at least at the delve entrance like when you are killed by NPCs.
Some of the bosses in the Cyrodiil solo dungeons are really tough to do alone if you don't have a good PvE build while in the PvP zone, but if you bring a friend as support (and to be better prepared against gankers), Cyrodiil PvE is a lot of fun.
The rushed and uninspired cookie-cutter delves in the regular PvE zones are boring, though. No variety, no surprises, little challenge. Most mines look exactly the same. I grow tired of that very quickly.
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Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sad how people do not understand.
Firstly i wrote " These should be available as solo instances as well" This means that there should be option for
A)Public instance
B)Solo instance/Group of own choosing
Clear enough?
Secondly, this is nothing to do with loot.
Third, this is all about immersion. It is unacceptable if you need to level 50 levels to be lucky enough to do them alone. VR level content is also content that basicaööy kills immersion since you have to betray your own faction if you do these quests.
Fourth, this is somewhat about challenge, yes. Game and instances are basically quite good if you do them alone and on level they arre meant to be done. As oublic dungeons, they aree mostly facerolls and thus, boring as hell
If you dont care about immersion, this thread is not for you since you can not comprehend the depth and meaning of it to someone.
Öastöy. i am not against grouping up wiith others. I just hate forced grouping that happens in every mini dungeons and such similar locations. I dont want to do dungeons with Miss Sprint, Mr Jumpy rabbit or Young mister treasure camper.
(Edited for small clarification)Edited by Tapio75 on August 20, 2014 1:54PM>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The cookie cutter delves were also highly criticized by some publications who misinterpreted them as dungeons, comparable to what WoW calls dungeons. Tom's hardware posted a chart of delve layouts and listed them as dungeons, saying how many were copied layouts. So everyone saw that and avoided ESO because "look, the dungeons are all the same." Really irritated me.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job4 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sad how people do not understand.
Firstly i wrote " These should be available as solo instances as well" This means that there should be option for
A)Public instance
B)Solo instance
Clear enough.
Secondly, this is nothing to do with loot.
Third, this is all about immersion. It is unacceptable if you need to level 50 levels to be lucky enough to do them alone. VR level content is also content that basicaööy kills immersion since you have to betray your own faction if you do these quests.
Fourth, this is somewhat about challenge, yes. Game and instances are basically quite good if you do them alone and on level they arre meant to be done. As oublic dungeons, they aree mostly facerolls and thus, boring as hell
If you dont care about immersion, this thread is not for you since you can not comprehend the depth and meaning of it to someone.
Öastöy. i am not against grouping up wiith others. I just hate forced grouping that happens in every mini dungeons and such similar locations. I dont want to do dungeons with Miss Sprint, Mr Jumpy rabbit or Young mister treasure camper.
1. Nobody is arguing with you here, so bringing it up is moot. This is the once a day the broken clock was right.
2. Loot has a lot to do with how people feel. You don't get to own and control the conversation. Others brought the subject in, and the concern is valid. Many people who used to do them stopped because they feel cheated by the lack of the carrot on the big long stick.
3. It is also unacceptable if dungeons are made into complex labyrinths that require 2-4 hours to complete.
4. Nobody said they don't care about Immersion. Nor does not caring about immersion imply not comprehending the value of it to someone. I don't care about Babies, but I comprehend the value of them to others who do.
Oh, and welcome to The Interwebz. When you create a Topic in a forum, there is a chance that others will bring new content into the conversation. This also happens a lot in real life. The best way to deal with it, is Contrast and Compare the value of that new content to the original subject.
While there is value in turning away Red Herring and Straw Man fallacies, there is also value in incorporating new content into a subject as all topics are sub-topics in other issues.
You might not be talking about loot, but while we are talking about ways to improve dungeons, it is fine for someone to suggest improving loot.
5. Sounds like you are naming-and-shaming, as there is a chance one of these people might actually be a character. As for your sentiment, do dungeons with people you enjoy. If you hate the people you are rolling with, you will be miserable no matter if PVP or PVE.Edited by Soloeus on August 20, 2014 1:58PM
Within; Without.3 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭The cookie cutter delves were also highly criticized by some publications who misinterpreted them as dungeons, comparable to what WoW calls dungeons. Tom's hardware posted a chart of delve layouts and listed them as dungeons, saying how many were copied layouts. So everyone saw that and avoided ESO because "look, the dungeons are all the same." Really irritated me.
It is unclear to many and i dont really know what to call them either but caves, dungeons, ruins and such. Places where you go to do some quests or just to explore.
I dont mean traditional WOW style dungeons.
>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<1 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Comparing MMO immersion to single player immersion like the other ESO games is like comparing apples and oranges. As far as immersion in an MMO goes, ESO is so far ahead of anything else that it's pretty overwhelming.
I'd actually go as far as saying immersion in ESO is far above vanilla Skyrim with no mods. Skyrim didn't get immersive until I started adding lighting mods, texture overhauls, armor/weapon packs, etc.Edited by Sallington on August 20, 2014 2:04PMDaggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||2 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The cookie cutter delves were also highly criticized by some publications who misinterpreted them as dungeons, comparable to what WoW calls dungeons. Tom's hardware posted a chart of delve layouts and listed them as dungeons, saying how many were copied layouts. So everyone saw that and avoided ESO because "look, the dungeons are all the same." Really irritated me.
It is unclear to many and i dont really know what to call them either but caves, dungeons, ruins and such. Places where you go to do some quests or just to explore.
I dont mean traditional WOW style dungeons.
Oh, I know what you mean, don't worry. Just generally, I find these identifications correct from what the devs have called them.
Delves - Small, single-player-ready but public zones. Contain skyshards and relatively weak named bosses.
Public Dungeons - Like delves but group-oriented. Work just like traditional group dungeons in that they have quests within, but are open to anyone. Contain a skyshard.
Group Dungeons - Instanced off to only players and their group. Contain quests. Do not contain skyshards.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job1 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes yes, to clear out...
I speak of my own perspective and i dont shame to bring out things that bother me. I dont care about petty [snip] contests or internet trash talk. I just want to give my own wievpoint of things and how they affect me.
I do not want to shame or name anyone. I give names to describe certain type of players and how their actions may interact with immersion
I most definitely dont hate anyone. I dont like it that i am forced to group if i want to venture in these areas. I want to choose my group.
If i offend someone i apologise but i can also ask that when i talk about immersion, it has nothing to do with loot. Not to me anyway.
It is sad how many people just want to point out errors as if they are perfect, i am not perfect nor is anyone else and if i or someone else. I would rather dismiss these and discuss rationally about the subject, immersion in ruins, dungeon, caves and such.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_LeroyW on August 20, 2014 6:53PM>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭Super_Sonico wrote: »lol, failing on lock picking! I mean, who does that?
Indeed but funny that it seems to happen anyways
I let my friend create a character to try how ESo feels and he was also failing in all easy lockpicks. He just could not understand the system and he is in no way stupid or anything, quite the opposite.
>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
Reiterpallasch✭✭✭If they did anything right with dungeons, it's that they're at least all uniq...
wait a minute
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jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Reiterpallasch wrote: »If they did anything right with dungeons, it's that they're at least all uniq...
wait a minute
That's the chart I was talking about. It's misinformation because players unfamiliar with the game are under the impression that those are traditional MMO dungeons.
Anyway, back to the main point, I feel like some of these immersion issues will be softened with the reworking to larger delves.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job2 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Reiterpallasch wrote: »If they did anything right with dungeons, it's that they're at least all uniq...
wait a minute
"Dungeons".
And someone in this thread already said why that article was trash. Also, make the same graphic for Skyrim and see what it looks like...
Edit: Maybe it was a different thread, but they were saying how Tom's comparing Delves and public dungeon to WoW-style dungeons is just a bad, bad comparison.Edited by Sallington on August 20, 2014 2:57PMDaggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||1 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭They are still quite well made, layout is the same in many but i have to say that atmosphere is nicely dressed up in way that they feel different.>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<3 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭What the author of the Tom's Hardware review of ESO stated was that 75% of the dungeons and most of the content in the houses were duplicated; the reviewer implied that the ESO developers took the easy cut and paste approach because they were lazy. The reviewer stated that if you can recognize the letter "b” that’s all you need to be an ESO dungeon designer.
I think the review was a bit of overkill.
What I hate about dungeons is being jumped from behind by a NPC that materialized out of nowhere, or backing into one that wasn't there before I started a fight; this happened to me as I was exiting the dungeon in Fort Sphinxmoth this morning. While exiting a part of the dungeon, a boss popped up behind me and started wailing away on me, after casting a spell that killed all my magica skills. There should be a warm up period before the NPC starts attacking. Apparently, the boss was previously killed by another player several minutes before I entered that area.
In the public dungeons all loot and items should be instanced to the player; the same with treasure chests and crafting items outside the dungeons.
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's amazing that outdoors everything looks unique, and indoors, nothing does. I guess the unique locations are places you'll revisit many times, while the copy and paste are locations you'll only go to once.1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's amazing that outdoors everything looks unique, and indoors, nothing does. I guess the unique locations are places you'll revisit many times, while the copy and paste are locations you'll only go to once.
It probably would have added a few months to development time to custom craft each of the 100+ little delves (textures, layouts) you'll visit once and never go back to again...
Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on August 20, 2014 7:05PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.1 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Once ZOS completes their delve redesign project, presumably with update 1,8 judging from the pace of the changes in 1.3 and 1.4, I bet people will reduce the frequency of their complaints regarding delve layouts.
I personally think ZOS should devote their time to creating new delves instead of redesigning old ones. However, I understand why they are doing it. It's too bad 1.8 is a good 9-12 months away.0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I swear, somebody keeps going through and giving everything I post a "LOL" vote. Must have upset somebody. Anyway, I can't wait to see all of the delves improved. Should be more interesting to go through on alts.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job3 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I swear, somebody keeps going through and giving everything I post a "LOL" vote. Must have upset somebody. Anyway, I can't wait to see all of the delves improved. Should be more interesting to go through on alts.
haha you and me both. They just need to remove those buttons, the same people who are thrilled to have an ignore list (and announce it to -everyone-) are the types to passive aggressively lol posts. They'd be the same types that would find ALL your posts and flag them troll during beta.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.0 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
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It wasn't me on previous posts, but I just gave you a lol on that one. Just to keep your streak aliveI swear, somebody keeps going through and giving everything I post a "LOL" vote. Must have upset somebody. Anyway, I can't wait to see all of the delves improved. Should be more interesting to go through on alts.
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp0
