ZeniMax, You've Got a LOT of Explaining To Do

Korozenn · August 2014

Disclaimer: Before you think this post is about the level cap: please know that it's not, and I'd prefer for people to stay on-topic. This is an MMO. In my opinion, I'd be shocked if they DIDN'T increase the level cap for end-game content.

To ZeniMax:
In this next Road Ahead article, as the thread title mentions, you all have your work cut-out for the explaining you need to do. But I think it's The Elder Scrolls fanbase that plays your game that 'really' needs to be addressed this time around.

It is now almost FIVE months into the game and no major content updates added to the game have been to improve the single-player experience whatsoever.

Update 1: Introduced Craglorn and Trials (all group content).
Update 2: New Veteran Group Dungeon (group content).
Update 3: The Dye System (neither solo or group content).
Update 4: Introduced Upper Craglorn, a new Trial, and Dragonstar Arena (all exclusive group content).

Before you make the tired argument that this is an Online game, let me enlighten you with a bit of insight into the namesake you chose to derive this game's experience from:

What does The Elder Scrolls namesake entail as the forefront of its experience?
When you chose to take up making an online game for The Elder Scrolls series, the namesake alone drives forward the notion of single-player, open world, open-ended gameplay (an aspect in which you all stressed in your introductory video for the game here over two years ago). In every Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind, the entirety of the game with its exploration, questing, dungeons, and more, are all 'solo', single-player experiences, even during end-game. Now, I'm not saying to cut-out group content from The Elder Scrolls Online, but group content should be exclusively limited to two areas of the game and built around the aspect of continuous forward momentum: PvE Raids (a la Trials and Dragonstar Arena) and PvP Raids.

Let me explain this logic:
The current issue with most group content, especially when it comes to Group Dungeons, Veteran Group Dungeons, and Group Exploration Content (Craglorn and Upper Craglorn come to mind) is that, no matter what group you're in, players will be continuing to move at a forward momentum because that is how group-play works. When you have these long, drawn-out story sequences and voice dialogue play throughout, it gives players no opportunity to get immersed within these locales because they simply can't and won't be able to find a group to do so with.

When you guys design Group Content of any form, it needs to contain as minimal quest dialogue as possible (like PvP, Trials, and Dragonstar Arena). But more so than that...you all need to realize something even more important: if The Elder Scrolls as a series has always been one where you can explore, do quests, and dungeons ALWAYS by yourself, then that aspect should still be permitted as an option here in The Elder Scrolls Online. Why? Because of this game's namesake.

If the game was not an Elder Scrolls title, you all wouldn't have to be faced with this, but it is, and that's why this issue with solo players in-game getting cut-off from experiencing exploration content (Craglorn and other areas like it), Group Dungeons, and Veteran Group Dungeons is such a huge oversight for what otherwise would've been a great game had these areas not been walled off to players because they simply don't want to/can't find other players to group up.

Scaling areas like Group Dungeons and Veteran Group Dungeons shouldn't be something difficult to do at all. You're already scaling content within those dungeons to match the group leader's level, but doing so will only wall off even more players from grouping up for these dungeons. Instead of focusing on scaling content to the leader's level, what you should be focusing on, first-and-foremost, is allowing the Group Dungeons and Veteran Group Dungeons to both scale to how many players are in the group (from 1-4 players). These dungeons 'should' have the option of being soloed a la 'The Elder Scrolls-style.'

Going back to the topic of what I, and most likely many other solo/group players, inquire to know about in this next Road Ahead article are the following bullet points. As a side note to other players here on the forum, if you have any suggestions (any at all) for me to add to this bullet list, voice them out below, and I'll edit this post:

General:

What will you all be doing to improve on the experience of scaling content in exploration and questing to player level and how many players are in a group?

Crafting:

Alchemy: You stated that Poisons were going to be implemented into the game. Can we get more information on their development?
Blacksmithing: Rings and other forms of Jewelry. Will they be available to craft as a Blacksmith or some other type of Jeweler profession in the future? If there is a Jeweler profession or station added to this game (like the Dye Station was for the latter part), would you be able to add Gems to weapons and armor as well (even if just for looks?)?
Provisioning: When will the Provisioning 2.0 update take place?
Spellcrafting: How is development of Spellcrafting going? How will you prevent it from essentially overpowering most Light Armor/Staff/Magicka builds that are already too powerful in their current state and make it a valuable craft to pursue, even when you use Medium Armor/Heavy Armor and rely on Stamina? If nothing is known about the latter, then please also know that people would have less reason to group up with Stamina-reliant players because they will have even less of a hold on the battlefield than Magicka users already have over them.
Woodworking: What will you all be doing to ensure that Woodworking remains as viable a profession as Blacksmithing and Clothing? In its current state, you have noticeably far less items you can craft at a Woodworking Station than any of those aforementioned. Adding in items like Crossbows, Polearms, and more could help that profession be far more worth its time and investment very much.

Solo Content:

At what timeframe can we expect more solo-content to be delivered?
What do you intend to do to improve the solo-play experience of this game?
How do you respond to walling off entire zones and dungeons from people who prefer the solo-play, Elder Scrolls experience (Craglorn, Upper Craglorn, future zones like Craglorn, Group Dungeons, and Veteran Group Dungeons, which are supposed to still be part of the normal exploration/questing experience of end-game a la previous TES games)?
When can solo-players expect end-game content that actually satisfies them? We've only been waiting five months now... =/
At what timeframe can we expect more solo-content to be delivered?
Will Craglorn, Upper Craglorn, or any other areas like them introduced in the future be updated so that they 'can' be soloed by players? Because in its current state, if you expect players to always be constantly grouped up with up to four players for questing and exploring through Craglorn and other zones like it in the future, you're doing nothing but walling off your entire single-player fanbase from the game.

Group Content:

How do you intend on scaling content to group leader's level for dungeons without resorting in creating the same issue with artificial walls in builds being made like they have already been in for Trials when people try to find groups?
How will you handle the current issues taken with the Group Finder Tool?
How will you better 'communicate' and 'represent' the ability to use a larger variety of builds for both PvE and PvP raids in the future?

Character Builds:

How do you intend on making both Magicka and Stamina builds more equally formidable for areas like the battlefield in Cyrodiil, Trials, and Dragonstar Arena?
Currently, the Two Handed skill line is very underpowered compared to other weapon skill lines. How do you intend on correcting this issue (because Update 4 still doesn't do anything much to fix the problems it has)?
How will you balance out Health, Magicka, and Stamina Point allocation so that builds that rely on 2-3 (rather than just one area like Magicka) have more reason to invest in those multiple areas of attribute point allocation.
When can we expect more Skill Lines / Skills / Morphs to be added into the game?

To be clear about the issue a lot of us take with exploration content (entire zones like Craglorn, dungeons, and quests) being walled off from solo players: it should not be an issue in this day-and-age to have dungeons in the game that scale to the leader's level AND the number of people in your party (whether 1-4 players). It's a mechanic that has been around for DECADES.

ZeniMax, you have a lot of explaining to do in your next Road Ahead, so I hope the next will be an onus in size.

forbarcusb16_ESO · August 2014

Wrothgar. Case closed. It's coming.

Sallington · August 2014

There's currently more solo content in the game than group content. The group content is just repeatable.

Are you just asking for repeatable daily quest?

This game was just released in April right? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

dharbert · August 2014

Sallington wrote: »

There's currently more solo content in the game than group content. The group content is just repeatable.

Are you just asking for repeatable daily quest?

Why not have repeatable, daily PvE quests. There are repeatable PvP daily's in Cyrodiil.

nerevarine1138 · August 2014

The fact that you're referencing the single-player series makes me concerned that you don't understand what the "O" in ESO stands for.

Of course the prior games in the Elder Scrolls series have been focused on single-player content. They were single-player games. They were never intended to have multiplayer content. And this game has had no impact on the future development of the sixth game in that series, because it's a totally different development team.

I'm playing ESO primarily because I'm a fan of the Elder Scrolls series. However, I don't expect this to be the same as any other Elder Scrolls game, because this is an MMO. It's meant to be played with other people. If I want a great single-player experience, I have 5 games worth of content available (6 if you count Redguard... but no one counts Redguard). I don't need ESO to try and duplicate those experiences.

Agobi · August 2014

forbarcusb16_ESO wrote: »

Wrothgar. Case closed. It's coming.

You forgot Soon™

Arabth · August 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The fact that you're referencing the single-player series makes me concerned that you don't understand what the "O" in ESO stands for.

O as in online its not g as grouped

nerevarine1138 · August 2014

Arabth wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The fact that you're referencing the single-player series makes me concerned that you don't understand what the "O" in ESO stands for.

O as in online its not g as grouped

Feel free to read the rest of my post. Taking sentences out of context never helped anyone.

Sallington · August 2014

Arabth wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The fact that you're referencing the single-player series makes me concerned that you don't understand what the "O" in ESO stands for.

O as in online its not g as grouped

Why would you play an online game if you goal is to avoid people?

crislevin · August 2014

forbarcusb16_ESO wrote: »

Wrothgar. Case closed. It's coming.

yeah, next year.

so why not charge solo player differently than group players? since solo players get 1/6 of the new content?

Sallington · August 2014

crislevin wrote: »

forbarcusb16_ESO wrote: »

Wrothgar. Case closed. It's coming.

yeah, next year.

so why not charge solo player differently than group players? since solo players get 1/6 of the new content?

You get 100% of the content. If you choose to ignore 5/6 of it, that's your choice.

Talrenos · August 2014

Korozenn wrote: »

Let me explain this logic:.

And there was your failure of this post; you assumed that ZOS understands the concept of logic and would respond to it.

BBSooner · August 2014

If a player chooses to only play a fraction of the available content then that is on them. It would be foolish to ignore group content.

That said, some content balance is needed. Difficult solo content (after the VR nerf) no longer exists, and while I enjoy my group content sometimes I get the desire to push myself in content designed to push a single person (suggesting banging my head against group content by myself is a poor suggestion). I am looking forward to Wrothgar, and I hope it remains difficult despite people upset with the realization that they aren't good enough to complete it immediately.

veevito · August 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The fact that you're referencing the single-player series makes me concerned that you don't understand what the "O" in ESO stands for.

Of course the prior games in the Elder Scrolls series have been focused on single-player content. They were single-player games. They were never intended to have multiplayer content. And this game has had no impact on the future development of the sixth game in that series, because it's a totally different development team.

I'm playing ESO primarily because I'm a fan of the Elder Scrolls series. However, I don't expect this to be the same as any other Elder Scrolls game, because this is an MMO. It's meant to be played with other people. If I want a great single-player experience, I have 5 games worth of content available (6 if you count Redguard... but no one counts Redguard). I don't need ESO to try and duplicate those experiences.

The acronym game again. MMORPG's are simply meant to be huge virtual worlds that are populated with lots of players doing whatever it is they feel like doing at any given time.

They are only "meant to be played" in groups if that is how you enjoy playing them.

It would be just as silly for an RP-er to demand that you must RP in an mmoRPg. Group content should remain and thrive, solo content should thrive. All content should thrive.

The "MMO's are meant to group" mindset is so tired, old, stale and closed minded that it makes me want to vomit.

Elsonso · August 2014

ESO went out the door as a heavy solo-able PvE game. Grouping was frequently broken and there were not as many opportunities for group PvE that worked. Since then, my feeling is that they have been playing catchup in the hope of bringing more group PvE content to the game.

As a preferred solo PvE person who likes to have other players around, I am completely happy waiting for new solo content because I know that group content is really needed.

Yeah, I am altruistic about the whole thing. My ulterior motive is that as long as they are focused on group play they have less chance to mess up the solo play that I like.

Korozenn · August 2014

Sallington wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

forbarcusb16_ESO wrote: »

Wrothgar. Case closed. It's coming.

yeah, next year.

so why not charge solo player differently than group players? since solo players get 1/6 of the new content?

You get 100% of the content. If you choose to ignore 5/6 of it, that's your choice.

Are you being serious?

"so why not charge solo player differently than group players? since solo players get 1/6 of the new content?"

I mean, he made it as clear as day that in terms of 'new' content, we've got nothing thus far. And, it's as I mentioned in one of my other threads: questing through other faction zones after you finish your own and calling that 'end-game' is not what qualifies as an end-game experience at all. Now, questing through zones that you 'couldn't' access as a Level 1-50 player, no matter your faction, PvP, and Raids ARE what qualifies as end-game. Why should the former (questing through new zones unlocked by being a Veteran player and Dungeons) be walled off to solo players if that is the main part of The Elder Scrolls series as an experience and it has been perfectly fine to solo in other TES games before?

It's honestly like many of you expect this game to continue its Draconian mechanics of how it approaches the meaning of what 'Online' play really is when the game was supposed to stray away from that notion, in the first place.

Online ≠ Group Content in all cases.

Having an Online game means that you have a game that also continually receives improves, major content updates, and have a community of players that are playing the game, just like you. It 'doesn't' mean that content that should otherwise be things that can be soloed (Craglorn, Upper Craglorn, and Dungeons), be exclusive to group-play when those same experiences are part of the exploration/questing aspect of the game, which has always been something you can solo through and The Elder Scrolls as a series has been known for. As I said, you can't forget the fact that this game is playing completely off of namesake here.

Look at Diablo 3 as a perfect example: you have a game that can either be completely soloed or you have the option of grouping up with others, and content in games you create are scaled by: a) difficulty setting, b) leader's level, and c) how many players are in your party. And that is regardless of what area of the game you are in that qualifies as the main game's Campaign experience and end-game experience.

Trials, Dragonstar Arena, PvP, and PvE and PvP Raids like those in the future should be at the forefront of the group content in this game. Why? Because those are new features only included in The Elder Scrolls 'Online' that are built around multiplayer. Dungeon and Zone questing/exploration is still very much an affair that is built around a solo, TES approach, but is wrongly attributed to only group content when we talk here about new major content updates. As said, questing through other faction territories that you could have otherwise just made another character on to experience from Levels 1-50 does not qualify as actual end-game content: it's filler that the developers added in while they work on the real end-game.

nerevarine1138 · August 2014

veevito wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The fact that you're referencing the single-player series makes me concerned that you don't understand what the "O" in ESO stands for.

Of course the prior games in the Elder Scrolls series have been focused on single-player content. They were single-player games. They were never intended to have multiplayer content. And this game has had no impact on the future development of the sixth game in that series, because it's a totally different development team.

I'm playing ESO primarily because I'm a fan of the Elder Scrolls series. However, I don't expect this to be the same as any other Elder Scrolls game, because this is an MMO. It's meant to be played with other people. If I want a great single-player experience, I have 5 games worth of content available (6 if you count Redguard... but no one counts Redguard). I don't need ESO to try and duplicate those experiences.

The acronym game again. MMORPG's are simply meant to be huge virtual worlds that are populated with lots of players doing whatever it is they feel like doing at any given time.

They are only "meant to be played" in groups if that is how you enjoy playing them.

It would be just as silly for an RP-er to demand that you must RP in an mmoRPg. Group content should remain and thrive, solo content should thrive. All content should thrive.

The "MMO's are meant to group" mindset is so tired, old, stale and closed minded that it makes me want to vomit.

Please find the part of my post where I said "MMOs are meant to group." MMOs are meant to have a mix of content, but yes, endgame content in MMOs generally requires a group to complete. Otherwise, you can obtain the best rewards, etc. without ever engaging in the multiplayer aspect of the world.

Right now, as others have pointed out, every zone in this game except Craglorn is solo content. Every zone. That's 15 full zones of solo content plus Cyrodiil, which also does not require grouping. There is plenty of solo content available, and there's more on the way.

It makes perfect sense that one aspect of the endgame content is going to require grouping. And it still makes no sense to compare this game to any of the single-player Elder Scrolls series, because it's a totally different game.

jambam817_ESO · August 2014

This MMO has more solo content than any I have seen. Im going to spend roughly 1-VR10 soloing content. (about a month or so, longer with multiple characters).

Why would i want to CONTINUE being alone? This is the reason i am close to cancelling, I log in to play with myself (lol).

Questing with people is confusing and doesn't mesh well with phasing and whatnot. I cant go backwards to help friends with quests i've already done because of phasing. The only time I've grouped were single runs of the dungeons when appropriate. Fix this and a lot of issues will be alleviated

Give me something interesting to do with people, dungeons worth more than the quest, more small group (2-4 man) content. I think trials are great although never taken part yet as I'm not VR10+. Cyrodil is fine.

They need to focus on longevity. Solo content wont keep people for long, encouraging groups and team rewards will.

Stranglehands · August 2014

Korozenn wrote: »

Before you make the tired argument that this is an Online game,

It's not a tired argument, it's an infallible argument. You pay a subscription to connect to a server and play with a load of other people playing too, that's what you do in an MMO, that's the whole point of the exercise. If you want to, like, not have anything to do with the other players, suit yourself, but you're still playing a game whose design revolves around people working together in groups because that's the point of an MMO

UPrime · August 2014

I think what the OP really wants it TES 6. This is not TES 6, this is TES Online, which means not single player, but multiplayer.

For a burn in a couple days, what would take 6 months for devs to create in terms of story/quest driven content. Not sustainable.

Single player repeatable content gets boring fast. Not sustainable.

Multi player repeatable content stays fresh for much longer then single player because there's a high bar of entry, so you may not do it as early and as much and the team dynamic adds to the verity a bit. Out of the 3 options this is how most MMO's thrive because it gives most amount of time played for least amount of dev time.

veevito · August 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

veevito wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The fact that you're referencing the single-player series makes me concerned that you don't understand what the "O" in ESO stands for.

Of course the prior games in the Elder Scrolls series have been focused on single-player content. They were single-player games. They were never intended to have multiplayer content. And this game has had no impact on the future development of the sixth game in that series, because it's a totally different development team.

I'm playing ESO primarily because I'm a fan of the Elder Scrolls series. However, I don't expect this to be the same as any other Elder Scrolls game, because this is an MMO. It's meant to be played with other people. If I want a great single-player experience, I have 5 games worth of content available (6 if you count Redguard... but no one counts Redguard). I don't need ESO to try and duplicate those experiences.

The acronym game again. MMORPG's are simply meant to be huge virtual worlds that are populated with lots of players doing whatever it is they feel like doing at any given time.

They are only "meant to be played" in groups if that is how you enjoy playing them.

It would be just as silly for an RP-er to demand that you must RP in an mmoRPg. Group content should remain and thrive, solo content should thrive. All content should thrive.

The "MMO's are meant to group" mindset is so tired, old, stale and closed minded that it makes me want to vomit.

Please find the part of my post where I said "MMOs are meant to group." MMOs are meant to have a mix of content, but yes, endgame content in MMOs generally requires a group to complete. Otherwise, you can obtain the best rewards, etc. without ever engaging in the multiplayer aspect of the world.

Right now, as others have pointed out, every zone in this game except Craglorn is solo content. Every zone. That's 15 full zones of solo content plus Cyrodiil, which also does not require grouping. There is plenty of solo content available, and there's more on the way.

It makes perfect sense that one aspect of the endgame content is going to require grouping. And it still makes no sense to compare this game to any of the single-player Elder Scrolls series, because it's a totally different game.

Bro, your whole post wreaks of the mmo=group mentality. I shouldn't have to point it out. It's pretty obvious.

Anyway, all I did was explain to you what an mmo actually is rather than the common misconception.

Take it how you want, or don't take it at all. I'm not here to get into a [snip] contest with someone when all I did was put forth the correct definition of an mmo. Whatever other game companies have done with it, (ie emphasizing group content or raiding), is irrelevant. That's why there are different games with their own take on a genre.

Th OP has a valid point and using the TES series for comparison is valid.

Anyway, you guys have at it. peace.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

nerevarine1138 · August 2014

veevito wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

veevito wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The fact that you're referencing the single-player series makes me concerned that you don't understand what the "O" in ESO stands for.

Of course the prior games in the Elder Scrolls series have been focused on single-player content. They were single-player games. They were never intended to have multiplayer content. And this game has had no impact on the future development of the sixth game in that series, because it's a totally different development team.

I'm playing ESO primarily because I'm a fan of the Elder Scrolls series. However, I don't expect this to be the same as any other Elder Scrolls game, because this is an MMO. It's meant to be played with other people. If I want a great single-player experience, I have 5 games worth of content available (6 if you count Redguard... but no one counts Redguard). I don't need ESO to try and duplicate those experiences.

The acronym game again. MMORPG's are simply meant to be huge virtual worlds that are populated with lots of players doing whatever it is they feel like doing at any given time.

They are only "meant to be played" in groups if that is how you enjoy playing them.

It would be just as silly for an RP-er to demand that you must RP in an mmoRPg. Group content should remain and thrive, solo content should thrive. All content should thrive.

The "MMO's are meant to group" mindset is so tired, old, stale and closed minded that it makes me want to vomit.

Please find the part of my post where I said "MMOs are meant to group." MMOs are meant to have a mix of content, but yes, endgame content in MMOs generally requires a group to complete. Otherwise, you can obtain the best rewards, etc. without ever engaging in the multiplayer aspect of the world.

Right now, as others have pointed out, every zone in this game except Craglorn is solo content. Every zone. That's 15 full zones of solo content plus Cyrodiil, which also does not require grouping. There is plenty of solo content available, and there's more on the way.

It makes perfect sense that one aspect of the endgame content is going to require grouping. And it still makes no sense to compare this game to any of the single-player Elder Scrolls series, because it's a totally different game.

Bro, your whole post wreaks of the mmo=group mentality. I shouldn't have to point it out. It's pretty obvious.

Anyway, all I did was explain to you what an mmo actually is rather than the common misconception.

Take it how you want, or don't take it at all. I'm not here to get into a [snip] contest with someone when all I did was put forth the correct definition of an mmo. Whatever other game companies have done with it, (ie emphasizing group content or raiding), is irrelevant. That's why there are different games with their own take on a genre.

Th OP has a valid point and using the TES series for comparison is valid.

Anyway, you guys have at it. peace.

Bro, my whole post was simply to say that the OP is treating this game as an extension of the single-player series, bro. It isn't, and it's never been intended to be that, bro.

And I understand that you believe that this is a common misconception, bro. But the fact is, bro, that MMOs are MMOs because they have group content, bro. If they didn't, there wouldn't be much of a point in putting them online, bro.

The Elder Scrolls series was a launching point for this game, bro. But bro, those are single-player games, bro. You cannot compare games that literally have no online functionality with an MMO, bro. Bro, it just doesn't work like that.

But if you don't agree, bro, just step up. Peace, bro.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Korozenn · August 2014

UPrime wrote: »

I think what the OP really wants it TES 6. This is not TES 6, this is TES Online, which means not single player, but multiplayer.

For a burn in a couple days, what would take 6 months for devs to create in terms of story/quest driven content. Not sustainable.

Single player repeatable content gets boring fast. Not sustainable.

Multi player repeatable content stays fresh for much longer then single player because there's a high bar of entry, so you may not do it as early and as much and the team dynamic adds to the verity a bit. Out of the 3 options this is how most MMO's thrive because it gives most amount of time played for least amount of dev time.

Very insightful post, but know that I'm not asking for content to be solely made for single-player: quite the opposite.

I prefer there to still be a lot of Group Content made for the game in the form of repeatable quests, Trials, Dragonstar Arena stages, and more. The issue I take with it right now is the lack of scaling in Dungeons and having entire zones blocked off from exploration if you just want to play solo and can't find a group to play with at times.

When you look at the entire picture for Dungeons and entire zones like Craglorn from being group-only affairs: a lot of these places cannot have their quests repeated and are exploration elements and facets of The Elder Scrolls Online, so they should still be built around accommodating solo-play as well as group-play with proper scaling mechanics in place.

It's Trials, Dragonstar Arena, and other form of PvE and PvP Raids that are going to continue extending people's experiences with the game for the short-term, but to lessen up the feeling of the grind in end-game, ZeniMax should make it possible to go through what is otherwise exploration content in the form of Craglorn to be either solo or group ventures and Dungeons/Veteran Dungeons that properly scale to the number of people in your group and the group leader's level. That's not asking for much, really, and it would all go hand-in-hand with improving the end-game experience and long-term subscriber base relations while they continue driving out these major content updates.

Kl3mzyy · August 2014

Last time i checked there was 15 big zones + 3 small zone for solo content and only 1 for group content.
I just don't understand why people whine about it if they know that there is lack of end game PvE.

Sallington · August 2014

Kl3mzyy wrote: »

Last time i checked there was 15 big zones + 3 small zone for solo content and only 1 for group content.
I just don't understand why people whine about it if they know that there is lack of end game PvE.

This is exactly what I meant when I said that most of the game is solo content. Thank you.

I spend most of my time in the VR ranks in Cyrodil, which has group content as well as solo content. And they even have told us about plans for more solo content. Grouping is what needed some updates in the first few months, and they gave it to us.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

Sallington wrote: »

There's currently more solo content in the game than group content. The group content is just repeatable.

Are you just asking for repeatable daily quest?

This game was just released in April right?

And so far has had two GROUP-ONLY end-game updates and is about to get a third, meanwhile there are NO SOLO additions to the game and while there are GROUP dailies there are none SOLOABLE.

Your point is worthless .. you're trying to assert ZOS have had no time to produce the content he and many others like me wanted .. ZOS HAVE managed to produce a LOT of hardcore content for their friends in Entropy Rising.

veevito · August 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

veevito wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

veevito wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The fact that you're referencing the single-player series makes me concerned that you don't understand what the "O" in ESO stands for.

Of course the prior games in the Elder Scrolls series have been focused on single-player content. They were single-player games. They were never intended to have multiplayer content. And this game has had no impact on the future development of the sixth game in that series, because it's a totally different development team.

I'm playing ESO primarily because I'm a fan of the Elder Scrolls series. However, I don't expect this to be the same as any other Elder Scrolls game, because this is an MMO. It's meant to be played with other people. If I want a great single-player experience, I have 5 games worth of content available (6 if you count Redguard... but no one counts Redguard). I don't need ESO to try and duplicate those experiences.

The acronym game again. MMORPG's are simply meant to be huge virtual worlds that are populated with lots of players doing whatever it is they feel like doing at any given time.

They are only "meant to be played" in groups if that is how you enjoy playing them.

It would be just as silly for an RP-er to demand that you must RP in an mmoRPg. Group content should remain and thrive, solo content should thrive. All content should thrive.

The "MMO's are meant to group" mindset is so tired, old, stale and closed minded that it makes me want to vomit.

Please find the part of my post where I said "MMOs are meant to group." MMOs are meant to have a mix of content, but yes, endgame content in MMOs generally requires a group to complete. Otherwise, you can obtain the best rewards, etc. without ever engaging in the multiplayer aspect of the world.

Right now, as others have pointed out, every zone in this game except Craglorn is solo content. Every zone. That's 15 full zones of solo content plus Cyrodiil, which also does not require grouping. There is plenty of solo content available, and there's more on the way.

It makes perfect sense that one aspect of the endgame content is going to require grouping. And it still makes no sense to compare this game to any of the single-player Elder Scrolls series, because it's a totally different game.

Bro, your whole post wreaks of the mmo=group mentality. I shouldn't have to point it out. It's pretty obvious.

Anyway, all I did was explain to you what an mmo actually is rather than the common misconception.

Take it how you want, or don't take it at all. I'm not here to get into a pissing contest with someone when all I did was put forth the correct definition of an mmo. Whatever other game companies have done with it, (ie emphasizing group content or raiding), is irrelevant. That's why there are different games with their own take on a genre.

Th OP has a valid point and using the TES series for comparison is valid.

Anyway, you guys have at it. peace.

Bro, my whole post was simply to say that the OP is treating this game as an extension of the single-player series, bro. It isn't, and it's never been intended to be that, bro.

And I understand that you believe that this is a common misconception, bro. But the fact is, bro, that MMOs are MMOs because they have group content, bro. If they didn't, there wouldn't be much of a point in putting them online, bro.

The Elder Scrolls series was a launching point for this game, bro. But bro, those are single-player games, bro. You cannot compare games that literally have no online functionality with an MMO, bro. Bro, it just doesn't work like that.

But if you don't agree, bro, just step up. Peace, bro.

I don't think it is possible to have a serious discussion with you so, i'll let you go.

I used bro once like lots of people do when they talk in person and you act like a twelve year old.

Well, hey let's shake and agree to disagree. Hope that's cool with you.

Korozenn · August 2014

Sallington wrote: »

Kl3mzyy wrote: »

Last time i checked there was 15 big zones + 3 small zone for solo content and only 1 for group content.
I just don't understand why people whine about it if they know that there is lack of end game PvE.

Grouping is what needed some updates in the first few months, and they gave it to us.

Oh, I agree. And, they delivered on that aspect.

But they shafted their namesake that they derived this game from, 'The Elder Scrolls', in the process of doing so by only keeping what is otherwise exploration/questing content in Craglorn and Dungeons/Veteran Dungeons as group-only experiences when the only experiences actually built from the ground-up to accommodate for group-play sessions are Trials, Dragonstar Arena, and PvP in terms of content thus far implemented into the game.

All I and other players that share my same insight on this issue with are asking for are options that will allow this game to go forth and approach that change in meaning of what we think of as an 'Online' game. Just because the game is Online like other MMOs doesn't mean that it should shaft different forms of playstyles when there are times that call for solo-play (when you just prefer to be alone) and other times for group-play that call for grouping. Those areas built around accommodating a solo playstyle in the form of traditional exploration/questing and Dungeon and Veteran Dungeon-based questing content should all be areas that you can either choose between soloing or grouping up for.

Then, ZeniMax can scale the dungeons differently depending on the amount of players and leader level, so that more mobs/unique mobs spawn for the former with higher chances of rare drops and more experience for the former in group-play, and the ability to tackle on more difficult mobs that award even better loot/rare drops with the latter.

If they make those changes, it will allow exploration/quest content to be done in a variety of different playstyles and allow players to get far more replayability and reasons to group up for Dungeons and Veteran Dungeons than they do now.

Pangnirtung · August 2014

It's incredible how quickly this thread has degenerated into trolling about what an MMO constitutes.

I like how Ziz phrased it when reviewing the 1.4 patch notes for the test server. He chuckled at MMO meaning GROUP. It means ONLINE that means if you choose to play solo do so, if you wanna group, do that.

Five months into paid release and the list of bug fixes is still longer than the list of newly released material. Supposedly we're out of beta?

Drazhar14 · August 2014

It seems like everything released so far have been things that weren't ready for launch. For the most part, they aren't addressing what players want in the new updates, which shows that they are not actually working on new content yet. They are finishing up old projects.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2014

He wants a SPOG . This was an MMO in all honesty it's more SPOG then MMO . There is one group zone and 18 solo zones. Plus all the solo dailies in Cry-O-dil. I think you may have missed something OP.