VR14 - Seriously?

AngryNord · August 2014

Meuh wrote: »

Wow ZOS is trolling hard, they just updated all gears so everybody had to craft another set cause they *** old theorycraft. And now they raise cap to VR14 so everybody have to craft their gear again! WTF

I want you to refund all my wasted legendary mats. I dont want to farm materials all day long again. AMAZING GAMEPLAY. GG ZOS

And I've just resubbed, I wont do same mistake twice.

So, can I have your stuff? :P

HurlinMerlin · August 2014

You can only dangle the carrot in front of the horse so long before the horse figures out that he will never get it and quits trying. Using a new carrot every so often won't fool the horse very long.

Fleymark · August 2014

Soulshine wrote: »

I do agree with others here who have pointed out that two level cap increases in less than six months after the launch of a brand new game is pretty bizarre, really. I have not played a single MMO that did this in this way and this fast. However much others may want to diminish this particular state of affairs because they equate all MMOs with level cap increases, it remains a very significant failure on ZoS’s part that they did not clearly communicate there would be an increase this soon and the reasons for it when they had ample opportunity to address it at QuakeCon since even during Q&A there this came up.

It most especially looks bad when you consider that they DID release info on the incoming gear set bonus changes, knowing full well that the majority of players now at vr12 would immediately re-gear their end game sets. To release the set bonus changes to gear BEFORE raising the cap to 14 is also pretty stupid, as others have pointed out. It also makes them appear to hold a fundamental disregard for what players have been working on, not quite 5 month into the life of this game.

Now because some of us are pointing this out, we are getting our feet held to the fire? Lol So be it. Personally, I love the game despite all this. I also prefer Trials gear and PvP sets to anything I can craft, and will be happy to keep working on getting those pieces since that is what I enjoy. I also love to raid and group so I don’t mind about the Craglorn expansion. But I – an others here – would truly have to be blind to not acknowledge that four entire levels in the PvE game being strictly tied to a group content zone (be that via Craglorn or PvP as the only other option…) is a seriously cracked move since there are SO MANY solo players in this game who have never played MMOs period and who are not comfortable with group tactics, instances, etc.

All this being said, I suspect the missing link here is an actual clear timeline from ZoS about “Season Gear”and what it will offer us as opposed to what is available to us at this moment via crafting and via dropped sets. If there was ever a time to introduce that I would say it should be with the cap increase to give people some options other than spending so much time to re-gather all the gold and mats they just spent for the second time on set which in any case could prove beyond obsolete in comparison.

Answers ZOS. Answers. You are not very good at providing them, and often when you do they come pretty late. Step up – you are losing ground here even faster than usual.

Superb post, sir. An insightful for you.

Ruebs · August 2014

Meh, I was getting bored of this game anyways. I started playing with 8 RL mate's, 6 of which have already quit and one get's on few a few hours a week at most.

A glance at any one of my five guilds displays about 60-70% of players have not logged on in >2 weeks. Around 45% have not logged on in >1 month.

Bad decisions will destroy this game. If things keep advancing like they are, I guarantee you ESO will not live to see it's second birthday.

pecheckler · August 2014

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

If this pace continues I have no reason to pay subscription anymore since I am (again) forced to waste my freetime with gear & level grind instead of being able to focus on things I enjoy.

If you can't enjoy an MMORPG without being maximum level with the best of everything, then you're playing the wrong game genre. A perpetual progression carrot is feature #1 in every subscription MMO ever made. Since ESO has a mere fraction of the endgame activities, almost all of which lack "traditional" MMO endgame grinding, updates like this incrementing level caps and moderate feature additions are very important to keeping the game lively and populated.

Just consider the mass exodus of players immediately after the anomaly farming fiasco that shot basically the entire veteran ranked player base to V12 at 20 times the intended rate. Where are all those players now? Look at your empty guild rosters for your answer.

FunkheaD · August 2014

I resubbed when I found out that they were eventually abolishing VR levels.... I absolutely refuse to grind levels/gear every month once I've hit what I consider endgame.

My primary interest is PvP and unless I can easily progress from v12 to v14 and maintain top tier gear in the process then I absolutely will not continue to play this game.

I am pretty annoyed at this... I only just finished the woefully painful Craglorn grind to get to v12, spent every gold coin I had saved on procuring top end purple crafted gear and now I find I'll have to do this all over again in a couple of weeks time?

I really can't believe how atrocious a design decision this is after such a positive response from players when you agreed to remove the VR system.

Take another punch to your ego and repeal this decision before release. I urge you ZOS...

cazlonb16_ESO · August 2014

lycrates wrote: »

The whole point a traditional (non-sandbox) MMORPGs is to progress through more difficult encounters while making your character stronger. If MMORPGs did not have that, then people would complete the content and leave (GW2 anyone?)

Last time I played, GW2 was still full with people actually.

Xsorus · August 2014

Soliss wrote: »

[

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Hell I'm using 5 pieces of VR11 gear right now....and i'm still not going to upgrade after the patch...

If your VR11 gear set pieces were also available at VR14, I bet you'd swap.

I bet you i wouldn't either. They have a VR13 version on PTS, which is exactly the same difference as VR12 to VR14.

Xsorus · August 2014

If you're seriously upset over the stat difference of this gear, in a game with a softcap on stats...I don't know what to tell ya...QQ

FunkheaD · August 2014

Am I missing something? I can't see any article linking back to VR14 actually being a reality from ZOS? Can someone link me?

AngryNord · August 2014

FunkheaD wrote: »

Am I missing something? I can't see any article linking back to VR14 actually being a reality from ZOS? Can someone link me?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/127711/pts-patch-notes-v1-4-0

Asgari · August 2014

Latest patch comes out and i build 2 full sets v12 epic everything and now i will have to do it all over again. It is not cheap and it is not quick to gather all of the gold and mats to do this. I am very disappointed and felt v12 was the end with champion points coming.

Allow us to get back our mats from recently crafted gear please. The only solution that would appease the masses.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · August 2014

The biggest problem with V14 is the timing. In update 3 they changed all the set bonuses creating a huge rush in new set creations. And now all those new sets become less than the best in update 4......

That is stuff that create a lot of bad feeling towards ZoS.

Now if it had been in update 5 or 6 then people could probably accept it but 6 weeks after shaking things up and have people spend all their gold mats? Very very bad timing.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

Anastasia wrote: »

Why is it not possible for you to look at raising levels at endgame in an MMO as something that is an option for players? There is no compulsion for YOU to be distracted, push yourself to go as fast as possible to level up, grind or any of those things you listed. Unless you want to. Its called choice.

First, if levels are rising it's not 'end game'.

Second, as long as levels rise follow-on content is based on the new level cap .. no new VR1 content has been added and never will.

Thus, as with 1.2 and 1.3, in order to play 1.4 you need to grind more levels so that you'll be able to play 1.5 which patently obviously won't be based on VR10.

Thus, the choice you're referring to is the simple choice of being able to carry on playing new content or not.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

deathmasterl_ESO wrote: »

Clearly people are missing the point that no where have they said they are getting rid of Veteran Ranks, what they said is they are "Getting rid of Veteran POINTS key word points, you know the thing that you use to lvl up your Veteran Ranks with, and they are changing it to normal XP."

As a quote linked to earlier in this thread shows, a follow-up comment from ZOS clearly said VRs were going to disappear entirely.

xaraan · August 2014

I just don't get the constant complaining about level increases. I guess it's just a different mindset for me, but that's what I want from the game. I don't want to stall out and "enjoy endgame content" where I never need to worry about what gear I pick up again (so it really doesn't matter what I get from drops).

I think once they get rid of VR levels and go to "seasons" or whatever they are going to do, you'll see an increase in the gear grind even more. But, just like now, you really don't have to upgrade, it's not that huge a difference. I've run with V10 gear on my V12 many times (still have some sets) and it's fine.

Mojomonkeyman · August 2014

pecheckler wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

If this pace continues I have no reason to pay subscription anymore since I am (again) forced to waste my freetime with gear & level grind instead of being able to focus on things I enjoy.

If you can't enjoy an MMORPG without being maximum level with the best of everything, then you're playing the wrong game genre. A perpetual progression carrot is feature #1 in every subscription MMO ever made. Since ESO has a mere fraction of the endgame activities, almost all of which lack "traditional" MMO endgame grinding, updates like this incrementing level caps and moderate feature additions are very important to keeping the game lively and populated.

Just consider the mass exodus of players immediately after the anomaly farming fiasco that shot basically the entire veteran ranked player base to V12 at 20 times the intended rate. Where are all those players now? Look at your empty guild rosters for your answer.

I enjoy certain aspects of MMOs - namely the PvP. ESO advertized itself as a very PvP heavy endgame project. I do spend 99% of my time in PvP after levellng up. And I get all my satisfaction from smashing other players face. I don`t need any artificial carrot, shiny gear, raising levels and all the silly stuff that is not more than a hamster wheel for people unable to be ever satisfied.

However, to compete in PvP I expect to be able to cope with others gear & level wise after investing hundreds & thousands of hours playtime. The only other MMO I played for longer than 3-6 months was GW2, exactly because they didnt rely on empty level raises just to please the carrot chasers. When ascended gear (power creep) got introduced I lost passion for GW2, because it tried to force me to do stuff I dont like.

There`s a reason I didnt buy into WoW and the likes, because their progression system with all the forced carrot chasing (dailies, gear grind, level grind) is exactly what I dont want.

This game targets a wide range of customers as someone else pointed out. We had almost exclusively content (including level cap raise 2 months after release) added for the PvE engame raiding & group crowd. I think it would be quite fair to now focus on us non-progress dependent players instead of firing the treadmill again.

I pay for this game as well, every month. I don`t ask for new content every two months like others, all I ask for is to friggin let me play & enjoy the game for a bit after reaching cap before forcing me to grind again.

Is it really that new generations are unable to find fun in games when there`s not a big number on the screen that has to be raised? Sad. It reminds me of some psychological therapies for handicapped children, who are just not able to fill their time in a fun way.

Pucko82 · August 2014

oh... ZOS... why? I Keep asking this question everytime I Launch ESO, and now THIS!

ESO pretty much feels like waste of time. after I upgraded my gear to legendary (again) you make it worthless.

I think "legendary" stuff should not be something i have to change every 4 weeks!

You have this fatastic world of elder scrolls (which you inherited), you have a playerbase with tons of mmo experience that gives you daily Feedback and what do you do? clothing Colors and VR 14!

my Suggestion: just STOP working on ESO right now (even though ist totally bugged, unbalanced and unfinished), for you only make things worse.

dafraorb16_ESO · August 2014

what a *** pve game

Xsorus · August 2014

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Latest patch comes out and i build 2 full sets v12 epic everything and now i will have to do it all over again. It is not cheap and it is not quick to gather all of the gold and mats to do this. I am very disappointed and felt v12 was the end with champion points coming.

Allow us to get back our mats from recently crafted gear please. The only solution that would appease the masses.

only you don't have to do it over again...

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Latest patch comes out and i build 2 full sets v12 epic everything and now i will have to do it all over again. It is not cheap and it is not quick to gather all of the gold and mats to do this. I am very disappointed and felt v12 was the end with champion points coming.

Allow us to get back our mats from recently crafted gear please. The only solution that would appease the masses.

only you don't have to do it over again...

Where have ZOS said the ninth trait can be retrospectively added to existing gear.

Oh wait, they didn't, Princess_Asgari is right and you're not.

shadowz081 · August 2014

I think this time round I will just stick to blue quality items now...Until I get an excess of gold crafting mats, which will probably be never...That or until the level cape increase is increased to 6-12 month per cap rise.

helediron · August 2014

The core problem at VR10+ levels is that it is group content but ESO prevents group play.There are few simple fix they should do along level cap rise.
+ Allow quest repeating. If a guild buddy asks others to join, we probably cant. But i should be able to just walk to the quest giver and select "repeat quest". And yes, i should get some XP from repeating, e.g. 50% from first time. This repeating also allows solo questers to reach cap. This change removes the current starvation of quest buddies we now have.
+ Scrap the LFG tool which nobody uses. Make an LFM tool where people can publish their next quest,or anything else like grind group). Just copy how it is done in DDO. Works SO well. Known group leaders get their group filled in seconds! An LFM can have a certain quest. has comment field and can set e.g. level limits or make LFM guild private. Others can click "request to join" and leader can then pick members, or set autojoin. This would also make trials gathering and PvP much easier.
+ Remove the fixed group sizes. Noob questers could go to the Scary Dungeon with six people instead of four, or top performers could beat the Mage with group of ten. This would resolve the current fixed difficulty issue. By increasing group size its easier by reducing we get hard mode. Everybody can take the content at the level they are comfortable. We see already this working well with the "all dolmens and WB" groups.

AngryNord · August 2014

You should send that to Zeni via in-game feedback, @helediron !

Swampster · August 2014

The problem I see with this pace of level increase is that it effectively makes older content redundant far too quickly. People will stop running earlier Craglorn etc.. and if this model persists you end up with a huge insurmountable gulf of redundant group content between the earlier (effectively solo) levels and the end game levels.

This is BAD for the game, as with nobody to group with to get across that gulf.. slower/newer players will hit this barrier and just give up.. meaning there's no supply of new blood for the game at end levels, and when that happens, the game eventually withers and dies..

Unless of course they nerf everything to oblivion and make it all soloable as they go.. which can be just as bad!

TehMagnus · August 2014

yeah wtf VR14? I was hoping for AT LEAST VR15!

Paske · August 2014

Im really sad to see VR14 coming.

Personally I do like to team up for PVE.
But dungeons and trials. Not questing. And I'm fairly certain there are many others like me.

When I do a quest, its ME doing a quest. Not a bunch of strangers that are taging along or Im tagging along. Or you need to have a specific build in group to finish XY quest ... No.

Also some of us like PVP and we try hard to be as good as we can while not skipping PVE in process. But with VR14 we have to rush to V14 in order to be competitive.

Also some of us do enjoy rolling an alt. You play him from time to time, get him to max level, some gear and use him if / when group needs a specific class / role and you have one. Other simply enjoy alting.
Whatever the reason, with even bigger veteran levels it becomes even more frustrating to level. Its like looking at K2 peak in your flip flop thinking, I cant wait to die on this climb.

All in all, I was sure veteran system is leaving us. This is horrible and very sad news for a game I actually like.

Srugzal · August 2014

Neizir wrote: »

The Champion System isn't out yet you fool...this is the only way of progression at the moment.

It isn't necessary to call people names to get your point across, so stop it.

The veteran ranks are never going away. The progression mechanic will be all XP, and veteran points are what is going away.

Yeah, I know, the sources are contradictory on this, but so what? It's the only thing that makes sense. Besides, VETERAN RANKS ARE NOT LEVELS. They are equipment tiers earned by accumulating points.

What's going to happen? They're going to continue to raise the soft caps on level 50 attributes, and come out with more and more powerful gear to make those numbers reachable from level 50, which is the top level.

As far as Veteran Ranks are concerned, there will never be a maximum.

EDIT: turns out, the VR are a kind of "level" in that character attributes are +10 for each rank. Thanks to the posters who pointed this out.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · August 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

The veteran ranks are never going away. The progression mechanic will be all XP, and veteran points are what is going away.

And since post-VR10 XP is only available in entirely group-content-only then those that don't like grouping simply to level will stop playing at VR10 then.

DDuke · August 2014

Srugzal wrote: »

Yeah, I know, the sources are contradictory on this, but so what? It's the only thing that makes sense. Besides, VETERAN RANKS ARE NOT LEVELS. They are equipment tiers earned by accumulating points.

In certain games, when new, better tier of gear is released via a patch, your previous gear will still remain the second best available. This is not the case with VR Ranks. Similar to other games which release expansions that raise the level cap, every green item achieved past the maximum level (read: Veteran Rank) will be better than your previous hard-earned raid / PvP gear.

So in a way, VR Ranks = Levels. Only difference is that you don't get to pick attribute/skill points.