So am I really pigeonholed to Light Armor, a Dress and a Staff to survive/be effective post 50?

Roland44 · August 2014

That pretty much sums up my concerns. Certainly there "are" character classes and builds that would use and excel with all 3 that I listed.

But, that said, I do not want to be forced into any of those options simply to survive in the VR realm or be welcome in a party.

I'm leveling slowly across several alts and no where near 50 as of yet. But this is what I'm hearing in chat and reading on the forums.

How legit of a concern is it?

Are there signs that there will be balance adjustments made in the future in regards to the worth of using Heavy Armor?

Will your Secondary Weapon slot (for melee) always need to be a Staff? Or is a Bow, sword & board a viable option for higher lvls and difficulty?

Thanks for any & all feedback

Regards & Good Hunting!

nicholaspingasb16_ESO · August 2014

Not if you're a medium armor Nightblade. We get 1.5-2k crits in PvP, it's great (vamp abilities and shadow/assassination skill lines)

zgrssd · August 2014

Only recently did they manage to get some changes into the Stam Skillines.

The first months they had to focus on the class abilities balance, wich are Mana based. those affected PvE and PvP most heavily and they needed those as baseline to balance Stam skills against.

Only with 1.3 was that far enough that they could give Stamina Skills a bit of love. They are not there 100%, but they are finally on the way. I asume furhter improovements with Update 4.

For the time being only few builds are viable Stam builds while there are lot of viable dress builds. But it will get better with the comming updates, that I am certain.

pinstripesc · August 2014

You don't have to go into stick/dress to complete VR content. It sounds like you get pigeonholed pretty good in trials, though.

Roland44 · August 2014

Thank you for the info guys! Appreciate your insights and knowledge!

eliisra · August 2014

It's true for leaderboard trials. Light armour and staff only, since it offers the best sustained dps.

For everything else, it rather depends on class and content I guess. Nightblades are really deadly in PvP with medium, bow and stacking weapon power/crit, for example. They jump you from sneak and you die in 2 hits. Cant get that type of intensive burst as a caster.

Sorcerers are sort of doomed playing light/destruction staff for life. That goes for any type of content, unless you enjoy making things unnecessary hard for yourself.

Templar and DK can do fairly well using 2-Hander or Sword and Shield, mixing armour types. They also have mele class skills that needs weapon crit, so medium armour gives a nice boost.

No one uses heavy armour. It got a tiny buff this last patch, but more is definitely needed. The passives arent good enough, for once. Other issue is that spell resistance and armour rating is fairly irrelevant in PvP. Player penetration passives more or less nullifies it. So the strengths of heavy armour, holds no actual value against other players.

Anvos · August 2014

If you want to do trials probably to yes, but alternate alliances and vet dungeons don't force it.

NakedSnake · August 2014

I only read the title but the answer is NO, you can complete content without the FOTY but to maximize you're character, stick and dress or gtfo.

dharbert · August 2014

eliisra wrote: »

No one uses heavy armour. It got a tiny buff this last patch, but more is definitely needed. The passives arent good enough, for once. Other issue is that spell resistance and armour rating is fairly irrelevant in PvP. Player penetration passives more or less nullifies it. So the strengths of heavy armour, holds no actual value against other players.

Speak for yourself. I only use, and have only ever used, heavy armor.

Not only for PvE, but also PvP. It may not be the best armor to use for either purpose, but I've had no problems with it and haven't felt the urge to switch to anything else.

Aenra · August 2014

you should be aware,
it takes a man to wear tights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFo0rmmJ-GI

grimjim398 · August 2014

Yes, and not only that, but you should definitely listen to all the other rumors you hear on the forums too.

jrgray93 · August 2014

No offense to those saying it, but I wish people who said things like "they made changes toward making ____ better" would provide specifics. Most of the time people say that, I go look at patch notes for the last updates and see nothing except bug fixes and maybe one very very small change. Stamina still sucks for anything but burst bow NB PVP builds. It can get the job done elsewhere, so long as you have the patience and don't mind being excluded from trials.

Roland44 · August 2014

Just trying to understand what is and isn't a rumor. And the basis behind the various opinions.

I don't see a problem with that.

traigusb14_ESO2 · August 2014

I did the old hard VR with a Templar in 7 heavy with sword and shield.

You can do whatever to VR 12, but players may treat you badly in vet dungeons... and you won't get to do trials without dress and staff for the most part.

Elad13 · August 2014

I did v12 dw heavy....no staff. Hard before all the nerfs...no so hard now....but here's something you might not know.
I started 3 toons 1 in each faction...Each different skills. Fun to learn story lines. I hit vs only to find out I now HAD to go into all other areas and play all faction story lines...which then killed all excitement or interest in the story.
Trials and even group dungeons are hard to get a group together....harder if you're not the expected class or build...sword and board is ok...staff is preferred. ...2 and dw get passed over....for now and at least the next 4 months.

Khivas_Carrick · August 2014

5/1/1 Light Medium Heavy, and I use a 2H. AND I'M PROUD OF IT!

SFBryan18 · August 2014

I prefer jerkins over a dress.

Aenra · August 2014

The problem isn't sorting it, all they have to do is re-prioritise. In terms of that internal list going from 1 to n in hierarchy of fixes needed.

The problem is re-educating/convincing the players after they fixed it.
You will be seeing people with sticks for a very long time, fix or no fix.

Remember Lotro and Wardens?
After many a fail in changes, they became more than adequate tanks, the preferable one too in some instances. But the players had learned that "Wardens suck" and still, no one would invite you to tank

Remember EQ and fighters?

Maybe Vanguard and rogues?

They need to start thinking about not just re-balancing, but re-presenting the stamina build viability once there. That is way more important.

ThisOnePosts · August 2014

On my main character, I didn't use staves nor light armor (other than warlock hood, plus 1 ring and 1 amulet... other ring fire resist because of vamp) through every single quest, public dungeon, delve, WB, dolmen, etc.. that the VR content has to offer!

I used DW/Bow in medium with a bit of heavy and I could solo everything in the game... this is also when the VR content was more of a challenge than it is now. So no, you are not stuck to it.. unless you want to be a mindless drone and just click 2-3 buttons on repeat over and over.

Staves are important right now for trials mostly, not necessary... but fairly important unless you have a group that can realllllllllllly coordinate targets and who they belong to which is not very likely for groups pugs or most groups for that matter.

Light armor has a nice Magicka regen, that is all. That magicka regen allows you to spam more abilities more often because you get more back, more often! Also it can make abilities cost less (that are based on Magicka) and right now many of the games best abilities, are based on magicka! It's not necessary at all, it's just a preference or not. I'd rather balance my regen and armor + spell resist, etc.. so that I can handle ALL SITUATIONS. I also will break down the numbers to a fraction for each of my characters, but that's just me. Full light/staves is just the simple-minded way at the moment and there's no telling if it will remain that way or not.

PBpsy · August 2014

"So am I really pigeonholed to Light Armor, a Dress and a Staff to survive/be effective post 50?"
Not at all. This is only an issue when you want to do Trials in a competitive group that wants to set record times in Trials. You will not be able to be as effective LA but in the current state of the game you will not have a problem from VR1 to VR12.

Tabbycat · August 2014

Seems to me it's more useful to create a character that's flexible enough for you to be able to create the build you need for anything you want to do.

Cyberdown · August 2014

Perhaps only for trials, and doing trials with tryhard groups of min/maxers looking to break records.

Aside from that, honestly, just do what you want it doesn't matter as much as people say.

You still run out of mana with maxed out light all pieces, pvp has TONS of people in heavy and medium armor, heavy and medium armor bring with it some benefits that become quite helpful in pvp and pve content...while light just offers some better mana regen...which you can supplement with enchants, boons, and drink....while its a lot harder to gain benefits to sneaking (great for pvp) or armor when wearing light.

I can see flame staffs advantage over every other weapon though. Uses no resources, has range, has elemental effect procs....other weapons suck down stamina and lack effects on basic click attacks.

Perhaps they need to add poisons for stamina based weapons and increase stamina regeneration with medium and heavy... stamina is a dual edged sword right now where it cuts you with making your sprinting and attacks use the same resource, as well as all but bow requiring you to be in danger to attack (close range)

Nestor · August 2014

I have noticed that my NB running Medium Armor is more effective with Bladed Attacks. I use 1H/S and used to use Bow, but now use Dest Staff. Prior to the patch, I could not even get past the first boss in Sancre Tor. Going back, this time after leveling the Staff, I did not even need the stick. I have also noticed that Coldharbor is easier to Melee. Again, I have 1H so I don't have the DPS of a DW, but I am meleeing 3 Mobs just fine.

Prior to this I was doing 80% mana and using Melee to keep enemies occupied or interrupt spells. Now, I throw in a spell every now and then when I am thinking about it. I just won against Molag Bal today with my DK with mostly Melee and just a few spells.

Guppet · August 2014

Nestor wrote: »

I have noticed that my NB running Medium Armor is more effective with Bladed Attacks. I use 1H/S and used to use Bow, but now use Dest Staff. Prior to the patch, I could not even get past the first boss in Sancre Tor. Going back, this time after leveling the Staff, I did not even need the stick. I have also noticed that Coldharbor is easier to Melee. Again, I have 1H so I don't have the DPS of a DW, but I am meleeing 3 Mobs just fine.

Prior to this I was doing 80% mana and using Melee to keep enemies occupied or interrupt spells. Now, I throw in a spell every now and then when I am thinking about it. I just won against Molag Bal today with my DK with mostly Melee and just a few spells.

The op was asking about VR, which since you just killed Molag Bhal, your not commenting on.

To the op, you can get to VR12 using any set up you like. You only need to optimise for trials. I run a NB with medium and DW/Bow and a Templar in Heavy with one hander and bow. Both in VR not struggling at all.

Anastasia · August 2014

pinstripesc wrote: »

You don't have to go into stick/dress to complete VR content. It sounds like you get pigeonholed pretty good in trials, though.

Nope, "you don't have to go into stick/dress to complete VR content" cuz it was Nerfed and you can dance through with whatever build you can make work for yourself -- taking as much patience, adjusting, or NOT adjusting as you like since you are affecting no one else.

IF it were filled with 'motivations' which would create a desire for players to GROUP UP as it was DESIGNED FOR that would make for different gameplay. The kind of gameplay which would provide a PATH of learning, earning and getting prepped for Trials -- err true PvE endgame in this MMO.

No need though, right? And, *no affect on TESO PvE endgame either, RIGHT?

zgrssd · August 2014

jrgray93 wrote: »

No offense to those saying it, but I wish people who said things like "they made changes toward making ____ better" would provide specifics. Most of the time people say that, I go look at patch notes for the last updates and see nothing except bug fixes and maybe one very very small change.

If you think a 50% damage buff is small and not a sign that they are reworking the skills, then our definitions of "working on it" are propably not even remotely similar.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · August 2014

50% damage buff to what?

Armianlee · August 2014

Well, I am VR10 Templar, Heavy Armour, Sword and Board, Stamina build and get along just fine. Ever since the nerf to VR difficulty I can down 6+ mobs without breaking a sweat.

Though that doesn't mean everyone feels the same way I do, ZOS has said that they "have heard us" and are working on it in incremental fixes. They've made small buffs to Templars and IIRC they are working on stamina management, etc etc. Many have said that light armour and staff is the only way to play past, but honestly... that is the easiest way. If people are playing past with heavy armour stamina builds, then it is clearly possible.

Greatfellow · August 2014

Roland44 wrote: »

So am I really pigeonholed to Light Armor, a Dress and a Staff to survive/be effective post 50?

I'm a quick thinking DW/2H NB at VR6 and loving every minute of it. I like the challenge it's been to build my 10-abilities slate, of which 2H gets exactly one slot. I loved figuring out just how to split out my maj-health-stam, how to augment various recovery rates, how to best increase my crits and Weap damage, and how to best apply my limited CCs. I loved figuring out how to get minor CC out of non-CC abilities.

It's been a challenge but Very Rewarding. I love the clink of weapons, I love rolling the heck out of the way, and I love Dark Cloaking just long enough to swap a weapon and come out swinging. Oh Yeah.

I've just never been the mage type.

Khivas_Carrick · August 2014

Melee Caster, magical warrior, basically pure mages and pure warriors just don't cut it for me, I need a lot of both. This game allows me to get that feeling and I love it for it.

However, I will say there's a lot of room for improvement on this, from making staffs less ubermensch and light armor not so able to make spells cheaper/crit higher/ignore defensives via penetration, to buffing the abilities and damage of the melee weapons and stamina moves and their passives, to giving Templar's their magicka management back.

Fun game still, don't get me wrong, just a lot of room for improvement.

Zadian · August 2014

I play a VR12 sorcerer in full heavy armor and a two-handed sword. Only after I have completed all three VR zones (mostly playing alone, group dungeons in a group) I started with light armor and destruction staff. It probably helped that I was always one or two VR ranks higher than the mobs (I finished every single quest and played some PvP - makes leveling fast and easy).

It's simply easier to make a lot of damage using destruction staff and light armor (in some cases the dps simply doubled). If someone wants to play an effective caster light armor and staff is probably the way to go.

In order to be able to play what ever you want in the VR zones you will need to optimize your gear and the skills you use. You will need good AoEs and a way to heal yourself - both is easier with light armor and destruction staff, but doable with any other outfit/weapon.
Using glyphes that increase the magika reg and maybe a glyphe with spell resistance is something to think about.
Getting the right gear set for your play style is important.

In PvP things are a bit different in my opinion as it's more about getting the kill and not getting killed instead of pure dps (unless you like to be a part of a big group - some organized raids tell people what they should use and it's light armor and staff). In PvP heavy armor can be usable if you are more a support player or if you really like to be the first in the attack.