the lore is not correct in eso so adding it is necessary upon as soon as posible, and plz do add the correct morrowind theme while in that zone, i do ask kindly.
please do.

There's a ton of lore-bending aspects to this game that people have already covered to death. I don't know what they expected, seeing as compromises have to be made for the sake of an MMO, and some of it was explained away in various ways. I guess I just have better willingness to extend my suspension of disbelief / ignore minor lore details than a lot of TES purists. Still, they could eventually find something to do on Vvardenfell while keeping the established rules in tact. I'd say save it for later content, as I'd much rather bite on nostalgia later on and explore new territory for now.

jrgray93 wrote: »

There's a ton of lore-bending aspects to this game that people have already covered to death. I don't know what they expected, seeing as compromises have to be made for the sake of an MMO, and some of it was explained away in various ways. I guess I just have better willingness to extend my suspension of disbelief / ignore minor lore details than a lot of TES purists.

Dwarven ore, possibly broken main story, and a lot of other things involving NPCs and locations. I'm aware. (oh, and a *** PATH TO SKULDAFN. What is that?!)

However, adding Vvardenfell would hurt like no other. It would be such a massive, horrible lore-break that I would likely quit the game, unless they explained away the date that the temple allowed expansion onto vvardenfell as a another "transcription error".

I for one am eagerly awaiting Vvardenfell



nvm

At least Vivec City would be there...

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

However, adding Vvardenfell would hurt like no other. It would be such a massive, horrible lore-break that I would likely quit the game, unless they explained away the date that the temple allowed expansion onto vvardenfell as a another "transcription error".

Do we know anything about Vvardenfell from before 2E 896? That was when it was recognised as a Temple preserve. 300 years before that time may give us a bit more leeway to have something done with it.

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

But if you want my honest opinion, I want this game to go on for two decades, and eventually let players access every piece of the continent, every island, a few of the lost lands and a hundred different planes of Oblivion. Because it CAN.

Sorry,but that is not possible. To expect this game to last 20 years is just completely mad and makes no sense. Anyway I dont think 20 years are needed to see the whole of Tamriel in ESO. It will depend of money and sucess.

And do not forget that TES single player games will be always more interesting plus will make a lot more money/profit so Its clear that once TES VI will be out lets say in 2016-2017,ESO will lose a lot of interest, (supposing that ESO will continue not being f2p by then)
Maybe ESO will be online about 5 years or less I guess.

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

But if you want my honest opinion, I want this game to go on for two decades, and eventually let players access every piece of the continent, every island, a few of the lost lands and a hundred different planes of Oblivion. Because it CAN.

Sorry,but that is not possible. To expect this game to last 20 years is just completely mad and makes no sense. Anyway I dont think 20 years are needed to see the whole of Tamriel in ESO. It will depend of money and success.

And do not forget that TES single player games will be always more interesting plus will make a lot more money/profit so its clear that once TES VI will be out lets say in 2016-2017,ESO will lose a lot of interest, (supposing that ESO will continue not being f2p by then)
Maybe ESO will be online about 5 years or less I guess.

I just finished 10 years of EvE online, and listened to it's producers explain their goals for the NEXT 10 years. UO players (of which I was one, long ago) have 3 more years to meet 20. WoW is about to hit it's 10 year anniversary. All of which are still releasing new content and updates. Of the three, EvE Online, obviously the more niche game of the market, is the only one still gaining subscribers every single year.

All that said, I've heard lots of predictions about ESO. I tend to ignore them completely, because most seem to be from players who are unfamiliar with MMO's, or more specifically, subscription based MMO's.

While I do believe single-player TES titles will remain more successful, initially, than any MMO can generate (because, who possibly worries about subscription numbers with free-to-play or case-cost games? TES-Skyrim stopped generating notable sales a long time ago, despite the obviously braindead comparisons many make on Steam players, not knowing how idiotic their point sounds), I also believe that the proof will show that ESO, as a long term development project, will have more monetary success after 10 years than ALL TES single-player titles combined together.

It's the nature that, at least with ESO, the game will get better with time. With any single-player game, you are limited to relying on other players to generate content, (the majority of which is actually centered on nude mods or cheat items, with few very notable and successful quest generators that have no impact on lore or game history), while the designers themselves release the title and a few poorly thought out expansions/dlc, and then move on to the next game in the series.

And considering we're talking about Bethesda, lets not even focus on game-breaking bugs that still exist in vanilla (dev patched) Morrowind, Oblvion and Skyrim to this very day.

It is impossible to see ESO going the path as long as the mmorpgs you mention because of many things.MMO games are doomed,until they completely change. ESO is a beast for sure and it is a really good mmo,but to think that ESO will last for 10 years (or 20 as you said) is not very reliable to say the least.
ESO is never going to make Zenimax to earn as money as TES single player games,mainly because of the costs. I really cant see this game not going f2p in the next 4 years. Well,I think nobody can see it. Not because of the game being worst ot better...it is because of how mmorpgs works nowadays. There is a whole market created and there is no place for new mmorpgs until they REALLY improve in a massive way. You are plating the same mmo over and over again just changing the skin.

In fact,the best of ESO is NOT the mmo part. And thats why me and many people still subbed. Once ESO starts to be more an mmo game than a TES with friends,a lot of people will disband.
And when a new TES game appear,people like me will just forget ESO because there are a million light years away regarding quality,immersion,and gameplay compared to a TES single player game. Eso has not enough interest for mmo players (thank god) and the main interest comes from TES fans,and let me tell you that the vast majority of players are playing ESO just to have some ES related game to play until a new TES comes out.

And I like a lot ESO and I will continue subbed,but that does not interfere with my other thoughts I exposed.

??

RazielSR wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

But if you want my honest opinion, I want this game to go on for two decades, and eventually let players access every piece of the continent, every island, a few of the lost lands and a hundred different planes of Oblivion. Because it CAN.

Sorry,but that is not possible. To expect this game to last 20 years is just completely mad and makes no sense. Anyway I dont think 20 years are needed to see the whole of Tamriel in ESO. It will depend of money and success.

And do not forget that TES single player games will be always more interesting plus will make a lot more money/profit so its clear that once TES VI will be out lets say in 2016-2017,ESO will lose a lot of interest, (supposing that ESO will continue not being f2p by then)
Maybe ESO will be online about 5 years or less I guess.

I just finished 10 years of EvE online, and listened to it's producers explain their goals for the NEXT 10 years. UO players (of which I was one, long ago) have 3 more years to meet 20. WoW is about to hit it's 10 year anniversary. All of which are still releasing new content and updates. Of the three, EvE Online, obviously the more niche game of the market, is the only one still gaining subscribers every single year.

All that said, I've heard lots of predictions about ESO. I tend to ignore them completely, because most seem to be from players who are unfamiliar with MMO's, or more specifically, subscription based MMO's.

While I do believe single-player TES titles will remain more successful, initially, than any MMO can generate (because, who possibly worries about subscription numbers with free-to-play or case-cost games? TES-Skyrim stopped generating notable sales a long time ago, despite the obviously braindead comparisons many make on Steam players, not knowing how idiotic their point sounds), I also believe that the proof will show that ESO, as a long term development project, will have more monetary success after 10 years than ALL TES single-player titles combined together.

It's the nature that, at least with ESO, the game will get better with time. With any single-player game, you are limited to relying on other players to generate content, (the majority of which is actually centered on nude mods or cheat items, with few very notable and successful quest generators that have no impact on lore or game history), while the designers themselves release the title and a few poorly thought out expansions/dlc, and then move on to the next game in the series.

And considering we're talking about Bethesda, lets not even focus on game-breaking bugs that still exist in vanilla (dev patched) Morrowind, Oblvion and Skyrim to this very day.

It is impossible to see ESO going the path as long as the mmorpgs you mention because of many things.MMO games are doomed,until they completely change. ESO is a beast for sure and it is a really good mmo,but to think that ESO will last for 10 years (or 20 as you said) is not very reliable to say the least.
ESO is never going to make Zenimax to earn as money as TES single player games,mainly because of the costs. I really cant see this game not going f2p in the next 4 years. Well,I think nobody can see it. Not because of the game being worst ot better...it is because of how mmorpgs works nowadays. There is a whole market created and there is no place for new mmorpgs until they REALLY improve in a massive way. You are plating the same mmo over and over again just changing the skin.

In fact,the best of ESO is NOT the mmo part. And thats why me and many people still subbed. Once ESO starts to be more an mmo game than a TES with friends,a lot of people will disband.
And when a new TES game appear,people like me will just forget ESO because there are a million light years away regarding quality,immersion,and gameplay compared to a TES single player game. Eso has not enough interest for mmo players (thank god) and the main interest comes from TES fans,and let me tell you that the vast majority of players are playing ESO just to have some ES related game to play until a new TES comes out.

And I like a lot ESO and I will continue subbed,but that does not interfere with my other thoughts I exposed.

Free-to-Play isn't a guarantee, though. A couple major brands have broken into the FTP market, but developers learned quickly that more players also equals more work.

Again, there is as much proof that the game (which as we both agree is NOT your standard MMO, and thus may be exempt from a very short trend of major fail titles who couldn't hold up to subcriptions, versus those games built as FTP titles, versus a long list of games which were and still are subscriber models) will continue on, as proof that it will fail.

Honestly, I think more of your argument is focused against the subscriber model than actually at ESO. I honestly don't believe subscription MMO's will ever die, due to the fact that there are players like me. Players who really do hate the developers and communities that are behind free-to-play games.

I'm not saying FTP isn't possible, but I am saying that it's less than ideal, and can do as much harm to this game and cost it a considerable subscriber base (as the game would receive even FEWER updates, fewer patches, fewer content releases, and what content releases it does see will be cash-shop focused ... all to draw a group of players in who won't stay with the game anyway, because they'll trend to the next free game that comes out) for a share of an environment that is rapidly crowding with games made on a tenth of the budget that are entirely focused on instant gratification.



Plus, after that next TES game comes out and we've all played it, how many players will come back to ESO then? There's only so much playtime a game like Skyrim can offer (which was a smaller, shorter game than Oblivion, which was smaller and shorter than Morrowind, because Bethesda is trending towards games for younger audiences with less complex requirements).

It might be that after we see TES:VI, you'll see a lot of players wishing that it was ESO. Because by that time, ESO will have had how many years of content expansions? How many new skills, zones, mechanics? Surely housing, dark brotherhood, and half a dozen new lands.

The great selling point to ANY MMO, is that unlike a single-player game, it's always in development.

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

But if you want my honest opinion, I want this game to go on for two decades, and eventually let players access every piece of the continent, every island, a few of the lost lands and a hundred different planes of Oblivion. Because it CAN.

Sorry,but that is not possible. To expect this game to last 20 years is just completely mad and makes no sense. Anyway I dont think 20 years are needed to see the whole of Tamriel in ESO. It will depend of money and success.

And do not forget that TES single player games will be always more interesting plus will make a lot more money/profit so its clear that once TES VI will be out lets say in 2016-2017,ESO will lose a lot of interest, (supposing that ESO will continue not being f2p by then)
Maybe ESO will be online about 5 years or less I guess.

I just finished 10 years of EvE online, and listened to it's producers explain their goals for the NEXT 10 years. UO players (of which I was one, long ago) have 3 more years to meet 20. WoW is about to hit it's 10 year anniversary. All of which are still releasing new content and updates. Of the three, EvE Online, obviously the more niche game of the market, is the only one still gaining subscribers every single year.

All that said, I've heard lots of predictions about ESO. I tend to ignore them completely, because most seem to be from players who are unfamiliar with MMO's, or more specifically, subscription based MMO's.

While I do believe single-player TES titles will remain more successful, initially, than any MMO can generate (because, who possibly worries about subscription numbers with free-to-play or case-cost games? TES-Skyrim stopped generating notable sales a long time ago, despite the obviously braindead comparisons many make on Steam players, not knowing how idiotic their point sounds), I also believe that the proof will show that ESO, as a long term development project, will have more monetary success after 10 years than ALL TES single-player titles combined together.

It's the nature that, at least with ESO, the game will get better with time. With any single-player game, you are limited to relying on other players to generate content, (the majority of which is actually centered on nude mods or cheat items, with few very notable and successful quest generators that have no impact on lore or game history), while the designers themselves release the title and a few poorly thought out expansions/dlc, and then move on to the next game in the series.

And considering we're talking about Bethesda, lets not even focus on game-breaking bugs that still exist in vanilla (dev patched) Morrowind, Oblvion and Skyrim to this very day.

It is impossible to see ESO going the path as long as the mmorpgs you mention because of many things.MMO games are doomed,until they completely change. ESO is a beast for sure and it is a really good mmo,but to think that ESO will last for 10 years (or 20 as you said) is not very reliable to say the least.
ESO is never going to make Zenimax to earn as money as TES single player games,mainly because of the costs. I really cant see this game not going f2p in the next 4 years. Well,I think nobody can see it. Not because of the game being worst ot better...it is because of how mmorpgs works nowadays. There is a whole market created and there is no place for new mmorpgs until they REALLY improve in a massive way. You are plating the same mmo over and over again just changing the skin.

In fact,the best of ESO is NOT the mmo part. And thats why me and many people still subbed. Once ESO starts to be more an mmo game than a TES with friends,a lot of people will disband.
And when a new TES game appear,people like me will just forget ESO because there are a million light years away regarding quality,immersion,and gameplay compared to a TES single player game. Eso has not enough interest for mmo players (thank god) and the main interest comes from TES fans,and let me tell you that the vast majority of players are playing ESO just to have some ES related game to play until a new TES comes out.

And I like a lot ESO and I will continue subbed,but that does not interfere with my other thoughts I exposed.

Free-to-Play isn't a guarantee, though. A couple major brands have broken into the FTP market, but developers learned quickly that more players also equals more work.

Again, there is as much proof that the game (which as we both agree is NOT your standard MMO, and thus may be exempt from a very short trend of major fail titles who couldn't hold up to subcriptions, versus those games built as FTP titles, versus a long list of games which were and still are subscriber models) will continue on, as proof that it will fail.

Honestly, I think more of your argument is focused against the subscriber model than actually at ESO. I honestly don't believe subscription MMO's will ever die, due to the fact that there are players like me. Players who really do hate the developers and communities that are behind free-to-play games.

I'm not saying FTP isn't possible, but I am saying that it's less than ideal, and can do as much harm to this game and cost it a considerable subscriber base (as the game would receive even FEWER updates, fewer patches, fewer content releases, and what content releases it does see will be cash-shop focused ... all to draw a group of players in who won't stay with the game anyway, because they'll trend to the next free game that comes out) for a share of an environment that is rapidly crowding with games made on a tenth of the budget that are entirely focused on instant gratification.



Plus, after that next TES game comes out and we've all played it, how many players will come back to ESO then? There's only so much playtime a game like Skyrim can offer (which was a smaller, shorter game than Oblivion, which was smaller and shorter than Morrowind, because Bethesda is trending towards games for younger audiences with less complex requirements).

It might be that after we see TES:VI, you'll see a lot of players wishing that it was ESO. Because by that time, ESO will have had how many years of content expansions? How many new skills, zones, mechanics? Surely housing, dark brotherhood, and half a dozen new lands.

The great selling point to ANY MMO, is that unlike a single-player game, it's always in development.

Maybe it is because my english is not very good (it is not my native language,im from Spain,plus Im writting from my mobile now) but I didnt mean with my post that I prefer f2p games. If ESO goes ftp I will be out inmediately. I really dont like mmorpgs and I just played Age of Conan for about 3 years because it is the only mmorpg that I liked. The whole other mmorpgs were completely garbage to me. And yes I know that Age of Conan is like the devil for almost everybody but hey,I liked that game mainly because o the world and atmosphere.

What I was trying to say is that ESO strongest part is the name and it is the world= Elder Scrolls universe. As an mmo does not offer anything new,but as a lets say hybrid solo/group TES game is very good. Im playing this game because it has Elder Scrolls on it. Like me,a lot of people...I would say the majority.
Im a hardcore TES fan since Daggerfall and what you can do and feel in a TES game (and more if you have in mind the fantastic mod community) is really far away from what ESO can or will offer.
In ESO when you are in a province...its ok and really well designed but its generic as hell and repetitive and with no soul,deep and needs a lot more TES atmosphere. Almost the whole ESO terrain is just flat and standard,anyway I have to say that High Rock is excelent in ESO.
So,this game will become a game for just mmo players with time and it will lose a lot of subs because those kind of players just want to rush and jump to the next mmorpg out there.
Dark brotherhood,thieves guild...until 2015 wont be here and it is something standard in a TES game. For the next TES,being in a province you will see a lot more of Tamriel and TES that with ESO showing the whole of Tamriel...do you know what I mean? In 2 years ESO will look outdated and even more generic and a new TES game will look absolutely fascinating being a real TES. Because you know,I really like ESO and Im supporting since beta but it seems the most of the time like a wannabe of TES. And seeing the next update...it seems the game is going to be more of an mmo than TES. And I understand,because it is an online game.
Anyway, IMHO this game will not last 10 years,nor 20. For me,it is just not a reliable thought. And to see the whole Tamriel with the quality ESO shows (some flat terrain,some random houses here and there,copy/paste delves,small rivers...) they wont need 10 years. In fact if their initial plans were to have content for 5 years as they said...it is enough for sure to show the whole of Tamriel.

Whenever and however Vvardenfell is added to ESO.

PLEASE DO NOT ADD IT AS A GRINDLORN TYPE OF ADVENTURE ZONE!!!

It can be adventure zone to level 50 characters who wish to play how ever they please, no forced grouping or forced need to group. If i want to go adventuring, i want to do it with my real friends or alone, thank you.

AngryNord wrote: »

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Vvardenell would be the last thing they add, right now it's an uninhabited (apart from maybe ashlanders and a couple of outposts) wasteland with a few ruins here and there. Widespread settlement wasn't allowed by the Tribunal until the third era.

"Previously a Temple preserve under Imperial protection, Vvardenfell Territory was reorganized in 3E 414 as an Imperial Provincial District. Vvardenfell had been maintained as a preserve administrated by the Temple since the Treaty of the Armistice in 2E 896, and except for the independent Ashland tribes and a few Great House settlements sanctioned by the Temple, Vvardenfell was previously undeveloped"

Unfortunately the developers of ESO already pissed all over that by having one of the NPCs in Deshaan (IIRC) mention relatives in Sadrith Mora...

There's nothing wrong with Sadrith Mora being there just like there's nothing wrong with the other places I mentioned above being there; Balmora, Ald'ruhn, Sadrith Mora, Suran, Gnisis and Tel Aruhn could all fall under "a few Great House settlements sanctioned by the Temple".

Enodoc wrote: »

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

However, adding Vvardenfell would hurt like no other. It would be such a massive, horrible lore-break that I would likely quit the game, unless they explained away the date that the temple allowed expansion onto vvardenfell as a another "transcription error".

Do we know anything about Vvardenfell from before 2E 896? That was when it was recognised as a Temple preserve. 300 years before that time may give us a bit more leeway to have something done with it.

The time gap doesn't matter, it would still be mostly empty terrain with a couple of ashlander villages. Unless some undocumented cataclysmic event occurred to wipe out ALL life on Vvardenfell shortly after ESO takes place, there is no way there could be any sizable population of house dunmer there during this time period, seeing as how it was unpopulated for most of the third era and the end of the second era.

Not necessarily. After reading into it a bit more, A Short History of Morrowind mentions "a few Great House settlements sanctioned by the Temple", which, due to Temple sanctioning, overrides "the centuries-old Temple ban on trade and settlement". We know from 2920 that Balmora, Gnisis, and Tel Aruhn had already been founded by 2920. It doesn't seem to much of a stretch to extrapolate from that that Ald'ruhn and Sadrith Mora already existed then as well. We also know from in-game ESO that Vivec City exists at this time.

I'm aware that these towns are present, however at this time they likely served only as outposts or as a way for the great houses to stake a claim to a piece of land while waiting for Vvardenfell to become open (eventually) for widespread settlement. Seeing as how even towns that are considered "major" like balmora were not actually that large even in TES 3: Morrowind, over a thousand years after it was founded and after a huge influx of people thanks to Vvardenfell being open to settlement, I can't see any city except Vivec City being large enough to function as a hub. Perhaps that's enough, but honestly with nothing really happening in Vvardenfell at the moment (dagoth ur's scheme is still building up, so they can't involve Red Mountain in anything) I can't see a single city and some scattered ashlander villages as being able to support a full storyline plus side quests.