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Bolt Escape still too cheap?
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MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »Honestly, you people are like the people that sue mcdonalds because they burned themselves on the coffee just because they're too stupid to know that freshly brewed coffee is hot.
http://www.upworthy.com/ever-hear-about-the-lady-that-spilled-coffee-on-herself-at-mcdonalds-then-sued-for-millions
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
Might want to read up on what actually happened there. The woman had to have medical treatment for two years afterwards, including numerous skin grafts. Also, the amount of "Seriously Dude" lines on this thread are getting downright farcical.I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO wrote: »Are you seriously complaining that the ability Bolt ESCAPE needs to be nerfed because people who use it sometimes ESCAPE?
gap closers need to be nerfed because that guy charged/teleported to me.
blocking needs to be nerfed because that guy blocked my damage.
This has got to be my favorite defense that Sorcs use to keep defend BE. It's called Bolt ESCAPE, the user should escape...
Shall we use that logic on some other abilities. How about Death Stroke from NB. It's called DEATH Stroke, so if you get hit by it you should die right? Maybe from a Stroke since it has the word Stroke in it too... So when you get hit by this NB ability, by your own logic, Your character should die from a stroke...
The internet has been won by you. Enjoy it.3 -
MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO wrote: »Are you seriously complaining that the ability Bolt ESCAPE needs to be nerfed because people who use it sometimes ESCAPE?
gap closers need to be nerfed because that guy charged/teleported to me.
blocking needs to be nerfed because that guy blocked my damage.
This has got to be my favorite defense that Sorcs use to keep defend BE. It's called Bolt ESCAPE, the user should escape...
Shall we use that logic on some other abilities. How about Death Stroke from NB. It's called DEATH Stroke, so if you get hit by it you should die right? Maybe from a Stroke since it has the word Stroke in it too... So when you get hit by this NB ability, by your own logic, Your character should die from a stroke...
The internet has been won by you. Enjoy it.
Hadn't even noticed that. Very epic.I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.0 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO wrote: »Are you seriously complaining that the ability Bolt ESCAPE needs to be nerfed because people who use it sometimes ESCAPE?
gap closers need to be nerfed because that guy charged/teleported to me.
blocking needs to be nerfed because that guy blocked my damage.
This has got to be my favorite defense that Sorcs use to keep defend BE. It's called Bolt ESCAPE, the user should escape...
Shall we use that logic on some other abilities. How about Death Stroke from NB. It's called DEATH Stroke, so if you get hit by it you should die right? Maybe from a Stroke since it has the word Stroke in it too... So when you get hit by this NB ability, by your own logic, Your character should die from a stroke...
That and its not even called bolt escape after you morph it. People are making semantic arguments over a pre-morphed skill.Retired.
Nord mDK0 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »Honestly, you people are like the people that sue mcdonalds because they burned themselves on the coffee just because they're too stupid to know that freshly brewed coffee is hot.
http://www.upworthy.com/ever-hear-about-the-lady-that-spilled-coffee-on-herself-at-mcdonalds-then-sued-for-millions
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
Might want to read up on what actually happened there. The woman had to have medical treatment for two years afterwards, including numerous skin grafts. Also, the amount of "Seriously Dude" lines on this thread are getting downright farcical.
She was still stupid, and spilled it on herself. Turning it into some homeless puppy story doesn't change that.Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on August 15, 2014 3:37PM1 -
MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »She was still stupid, and spilled it on herself. Turning it into some homeless puppy story doesn't change that.
Yep, and the amount of compensation she got was reduced to reflect that. Still doesn't change the fact that McDonalds coffee was kept at about 30 degrees hotter than was safe. You really might want to read links before you comment on them. Either way, this is very off topic. Moving on now.I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.0 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the 6 or 7 chasing him didn't know how to play well together to trap an escaping Sorcerer. Lack of skill shouldn't push a nerf. Bolt Escape for the most part is an escape tactic. The thing to note from your story is that while escaping, the sorcerer was not picking them off one by one.
If anything, the sorcerer managed to pull 6-7 mindless, tunnel vision players away from a keep/wall. A BE's sorcerer is leaving the fight. If those 6-7 were in my raid, I would have booted them.
Edited by Makkir on August 15, 2014 4:32PM0 -
ThisOnePosts✭✭✭✭✭seriously?
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crying babies are getting on my nerves.
Agreed. This thread is a joke. The thing I dislike most about PVP, are the whining cry babies that take to the forums since they can't think rationally. And yes I love PVP, but I dislike the whiners more than I do enemy NPC being able to see people whom are invisible at a fairly large distance.
I made a Sorc and leveled it to VR12, I rarely use Bolt Escape. If someone wants to use it while THAT MANY people are trying to beat on them, it did it's job if they escape. Stop trying to gank 1 person with a group, go find another group to battle with or go solo ganking like a real ganker will.2 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭If anything its too high cost, its barely viable for melee tanking. If you want my real thoughts about it see my Sig.
Bolt escape SHOULD allow you to escape a gank party. If anything it should be more effective for melee builds, rather than less.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
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Sheaden✭✭✭
That all took place right before the server went down for maintenance so it wasn't as if it actually mattered. But it clearly displayed how badly Bolt Escape can still be exploited if done correctly. The sorc wasn't "leaving the fight" as you put it. That was also very clear.I think the 6 or 7 chasing him didn't know how to play well together to trap an escaping Sorcerer. Lack of skill shouldn't push a nerf. Bolt Escape for the most part is an escape tactic. The thing to note from your story is that while escaping, the sorcerer was not picking them off one by one.
If anything, the sorcerer managed to pull 6-7 mindless, tunnel vision players away from a keep/wall. A BE's sorcerer is leaving the fight. If those 6-7 were in my raid, I would have booted them.
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demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »She was still stupid, and spilled it on herself. Turning it into some homeless puppy story doesn't change that.
Yep, and the amount of compensation she got was reduced to reflect that. Still doesn't change the fact that McDonalds coffee was kept at about 30 degrees hotter than was safe. You really might want to read links before you comment on them. Either way, this is very off topic. Moving on now.
Even it was a "Safe hot" i wouldn't put it in a position to spill on me, because it would still hurt.
Ok now we can move on.
It's not so much bolt escapes fault that some people still can spam it more times than one thinks one should be able to, its that there are too many ways to reduce magica costs that those certain people utilize. They won't ever adjust that, because they are wizard lovers. The simple fact that they turned Seducer from effecting both magicka and stamina abilities into efficient magicka only to an even greater effect is some proof of that, and without even having a stamina equivalent.
The problem that arises is that the bolt escaper will be able to cast BE more times than the interceptor can use critical charge or shield charge if he/she so pleases. The only ones that could possibly keep up is nightblades and templars, because their class-built gap closers also cost magicka and they can get a good amount of magicka reduction almost the same way, just minus the class traits for magicka cost reduction to those skills.
Tho, the sorcerer would have to be actually using seducer and one of the other over-powered magicka-focused sets in order to BE longer, but then they would be able to do everything for a longer period of time too.... unlike the stamina user. So in the end its about what Set bonuses they decide to take and what set bonuses they decide to give up. IMO if magicka focused sets weren't made to be as powerful in the art of returning magicka or lowering magicka costs then the BE problem wouldn't have come back up.0 -
Sheaden✭✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »seriously?
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crying babies are getting on my nerves.
Agreed. This thread is a joke. The thing I dislike most about PVP, are the whining cry babies that take to the forums since they can't think rationally. And yes I love PVP, but I dislike the whiners more than I do enemy NPC being able to see people whom are invisible at a fairly large distance.
I made a Sorc and leveled it to VR12, I rarely use Bolt Escape. If someone wants to use it while THAT MANY people are trying to beat on them, it did it's job if they escape. Stop trying to gank 1 person with a group, go find another group to battle with or go solo ganking like a real ganker will.
That's kind of the point of the thread. When you successfully rule out the ability to gank one particular class by 95+% of the games population by default...that's a problem. Of course the sorcs keep bringing up the "OP" nightblades and their speed-stealth walking or whatever nonsense. A Nightblades escape isn't even close to being "on par" with a sorcs and they're a stealth class lol.
So Sorcs should be "ungankable" because they have an escape? If you believe that, you're in the minority. If an entire group can't put a stop to this sorc.. how is one player supposed to? That single skill puts Sorcs so far ahead of any other class in terms of being able to disengage from a bad fight it's totally imbalanced. Since...there are NO bad fights if you can always escape from them.
Edited by Sheaden on August 15, 2014 6:27PM1 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭...Bolt Escape NOT Bolt Root Death Gank Fireworks...Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
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olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another sorc could easily follow him with their own BE. Its like people say, each build has their own thing, be it either block, invisibility or blink etc. I see nightblades dodge and invis all the time to get away from a larger group and succeeding with it, I wont cry for a nerf. Get over it and maybe next time you might catch him. Stop the whining.
PC EU
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MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »seriously?
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crying babies are getting on my nerves.
Agreed. This thread is a joke. The thing I dislike most about PVP, are the whining cry babies that take to the forums since they can't think rationally. And yes I love PVP, but I dislike the whiners more than I do enemy NPC being able to see people whom are invisible at a fairly large distance.
I made a Sorc and leveled it to VR12, I rarely use Bolt Escape. If someone wants to use it while THAT MANY people are trying to beat on them, it did it's job if they escape. Stop trying to gank 1 person with a group, go find another group to battle with or go solo ganking like a real ganker will.
That's kind of the point of the thread. When you successfully rule out the ability to gank one particular class by 95+% of the games population by default...that's a problem. Of course the sorcs keep bringing up the "OP" nightblades and their speed-stealth walking or whatever nonsense. A Nightblades escape isn't even close to being "on par" with a sorcs and they're a stealth class lol.
So Sorcs should be "ungankable" because they have an escape? If you believe that, you're in the minority. If an entire group can't put a stop to this sorc.. how is one player supposed to? That single skill puts Sorcs so far ahead of any other class in terms of being able to disengage from a bad fight it's totally imbalanced. Since...there are NO bad fights if you can always escape from them.
The answer is simple, my friend. One should not take out a sorc if he decides to escape from the battle. why would you want to kill one single person so bad, that you run after him for 15 minutes? I mean he's not a danger anymore, just let him go away. you think it would be fair to steam roll him with a 7 man group? if you see a 7 man group of enemies, do you just run into them knowing you will die? or will you try to escape that situation somehow?
come on man, stop the whining. next time you know better. sometimes you just have to want the things you can get, when you can't get the things you want.0 -
ghengis_dhan✭✭✭I'm a VR2 Sorcerer Mage who had a spare skill point, so I took Bolt Escape to see what all the fuss was about. (Bolt Escape doesn't work for my build.) My magicka and magicka regen is nearly at the new softcap, and I'm wearing Seducer and Warlock sets.
I tested it out for a while, and I have to say that there is no way the sorcerer was able to do what was described above with Bolt Escape alone. To be chased down by 5+ players with decent experience is nearly impossible for 15 minutes. To be doing that AND taunting the pursuers, the sorcerer had to also be using Retreating Maneuver and popping Speed potions like candy. Or, the players were clueless.
But then again, anyone can easily keep up with that kind of Bolt Escaping sorcerer using a magical speed boost (like Elusive Mist or Boundless Storm), Retreating Maneuver, and speed potions.Edited by ghengis_dhan on August 15, 2014 7:49PM"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
Teddy Roosevelt, Paris, 19100 -
Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO wrote: »Are you seriously complaining that the ability Bolt ESCAPE needs to be nerfed because people who use it sometimes ESCAPE?
gap closers need to be nerfed because that guy charged/teleported to me.
blocking needs to be nerfed because that guy blocked my damage.
This has got to be my favorite defense that Sorcs use to keep defend BE. It's called Bolt ESCAPE, the user should escape...
Shall we use that logic on some other abilities. How about Death Stroke from NB. It's called DEATH Stroke, so if you get hit by it you should die right? Maybe from a Stroke since it has the word Stroke in it too... So when you get hit by this NB ability, by your own logic, Your character should die from a stroke...
Moreso that the skill's purpose is for escape. This is the design purpose of the ability and the developer's intent. If a player decides that sacrificing all potential damage by completely draining his/her magicka bar to escape, due to the extremely high magicka cost post nerf, then so be it. Same goes for a NB who spams Cloak for escape.
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Sheaden✭✭✭Another sorc could easily follow him with their own BE. Its like people say, each build has their own thing, be it either block, invisibility or blink etc. I see nightblades dodge and invis all the time to get away from a larger group and succeeding with it, I wont cry for a nerf. Get over it and maybe next time you might catch him. Stop the whining.
Since when is block exclusive to ONE class? Invisibility is still broken from any Nightblade I've talked to and I don't think you want to open THAT can of worms. As it stands Bolt Escape is world's ahead of any other defensive mechanism in the game.. it's not balanced.0 -
Sheaden✭✭✭Once again the "big crutch" "ace up the sleeve" argument from anyone defending bolt escape is ... It's an ESCAPE... if a Sorc decides to use it... they should be able to do so without being contested whatsoever.. just let them go... that is totally broken logic and the fact people are trying to support it just exemplifies how ludicrously unbalanced this ability is. I'm sorry but the best advice is to simply "let the person escape?" So they can use guerilla tactics and prey on people while very seldom being in any danger themselves? I can assure you that's not the developers intent to make one class so powerful in that regard.
Pursue with a "closer" ... most closing abilities get bugged on terrain so badly there's pretty much zero chance to keep up with a bolt escape sorc.
Then that totally invalid argument about nightblades getting away all the time is a total farce. With the number of people running magelight I seldom see them get away.
Also a totally invalid argument that you MUST have a sorc to catch a sorc. That's not balance at all! Then the game will invariably become Elder Sorcs Online.
Please try to use some semblance of reason or rationale when defending bolt escape please.Edited by Sheaden on August 15, 2014 8:49PM0 -
Sheaden✭✭✭Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO wrote: »Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO wrote: »Are you seriously complaining that the ability Bolt ESCAPE needs to be nerfed because people who use it sometimes ESCAPE?
gap closers need to be nerfed because that guy charged/teleported to me.
blocking needs to be nerfed because that guy blocked my damage.
This has got to be my favorite defense that Sorcs use to keep defend BE. It's called Bolt ESCAPE, the user should escape...
Shall we use that logic on some other abilities. How about Death Stroke from NB. It's called DEATH Stroke, so if you get hit by it you should die right? Maybe from a Stroke since it has the word Stroke in it too... So when you get hit by this NB ability, by your own logic, Your character should die from a stroke...
Moreso that the skill's purpose is for escape. This is the design purpose of the ability and the developer's intent. If a player decides that sacrificing all potential damage by completely draining his/her magicka bar to escape, due to the extremely high magicka cost post nerf, then so be it. Same goes for a NB who spams Cloak for escape.
I've seen plenty of sorcs streak in and nuke a player and then escape to safety, how are they "sacrificing all potential damage"?Edited by Sheaden on August 15, 2014 8:44PM2 -
Sheaden✭✭✭ViciousWayz wrote: »seriously?
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crying babies are getting on my nerves.
Agreed. This thread is a joke. The thing I dislike most about PVP, are the whining cry babies that take to the forums since they can't think rationally. And yes I love PVP, but I dislike the whiners more than I do enemy NPC being able to see people whom are invisible at a fairly large distance.
I made a Sorc and leveled it to VR12, I rarely use Bolt Escape. If someone wants to use it while THAT MANY people are trying to beat on them, it did it's job if they escape. Stop trying to gank 1 person with a group, go find another group to battle with or go solo ganking like a real ganker will.
So funny how few of the sorcs posting in this thread claim to use the ability, yet they are all jealously defending it with their last breath. Also interesting, is the PERCENTAGE of sorcs seen in Cyrodiil who are nuking people with crystal fragments and bolt escaping to safety. The mathematics on this is all wrong lol.
"oh it's not good enough to use so I don't even slot it" or .. "I'm not a sorc even but OH DON'T YOU DARE TALK ABOUT NERFING BE or elude that it's not balanced"
Give me a break.Edited by Sheaden on August 15, 2014 8:50PM2 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭If a sorc is nuking and then escaping, they are sacrificing survivability because there is no way you could do that and tank more than a couple small hits. The trade off in that situation is mobility for base tanking stats.
If you want mobility and tanking you have to sacrifice damage.
If you want damage and tanking you have to sacrifice mobility.
If you aren't built to fight mobility, don't fight mobility.
Every build has weaknesses and strengths. Play your strengths.Edited by Cathexis on August 15, 2014 8:52PMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
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Sheaden✭✭✭If a sorc is nuking and then escaping, they are sacrificing survivability because there is no way you could do that and tank more than a couple small hits. The trade off in that situation is mobility for base tanking stats.
If you want mobility and tanking you have to sacrifice damage.
If you want damage and tanking you have to sacrifice mobility.
If you aren't built to fight mobility, don't fight mobility.
That's the point.. you say if they are nuking and then escaping... they are sacrificing survivability? LOL
Hello.... they nuked AND escaped. Last I checked people don't escape to death, otherwise it's not much of an escape. So the escaping part you mention.. that IS the survivability. Having it both ways is not balanced.
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Survivability and being able to escape (mobility) are two different things.
I can't tell you how many times I've bolt escaped out of danger on top of a pack of NPCs or enemy players (often stealthed, maybe we should Nerf stealth too since you can just pop invisibility to get out of danger? Obv no)Edited by Cathexis on August 15, 2014 8:58PMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Survivability (edit; TANKING for symantic clarity) is being able to tank a dozen crits and live.
Mobility is being able to move quickly from point a to point b.
I fail to see how these are the same.
Killing enemy players also causes survival, does that mean DPS is too good and needs to be nerfed because it causes survival?
Should I not be able to DPS and tank?
Skills complement each other.Edited by Cathexis on August 15, 2014 9:19PMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
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Sheaden✭✭✭Survivability is being able to tank a dozen crits and live.
Mobility is being able to move quickly from point a to point b.
I fail to see how these are the same.
Killing enemy players also causes survival, does that mean DPS is too good and needs to be nerfed because it causes survival?
Survival skills come in a broad range of forms.
If you think survival ONLY means tanking crits ... again you're in the minority.Edited by Sheaden on August 15, 2014 9:18PM0 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭I thought I illustrated that I did understand survivability comes in a variety of forms but you can't equate mobility with tanking and as I said earlier my experience has been that you have to sacrifice one of mobility, damage, or tanking. Meaning his build relies on mobility and dps for survival rather than tanking.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
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Sheaden✭✭✭I thought I illustrated that I did understand survivability comes in a variety of forms but you can't equate mobility with tanking and as I said earlier my experience has been that you have to sacrifice one of mobility, damage, or tanking. Meaning his build relies on mobility and dps for survival rather than tanking.
Bolt escape (streak/ball of lightning) features DPS/CC/defense and Mobility all in a nice tidy package depending on which version you choose. Something no other ability can stake claim to.0 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭Wow @Sheaden you just keep on harping on this one string, don't you?
you lost this argument right at the beginning. i played a sorc and did a lot of pvp and i can say that bolt escape is not op in any way. i often failed at getting away, i saw others fail at getting away. Just because sometimes you get lucky and manage to escape successfully doesn't mean this skill is op. that guy might have got a decent magicka build, but it's not the skill that trolled you there. the common sorc can bolt only 5-6 times in a row.
don't reflect the abilities of a well built char on that one skill. just roll a sorc, do some pvp with it and tell me if it's op or not.0
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