[removed]

kitsinni · August 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Not to be difficult here...but can someone explain the grand purpose behind having absurd amounts of gold past a certain point, unless it's to benefit their guild or offset the war?

Seems to me it's as much work to do this, to get the gold, to buy other stuff, to not have to do the work to find the other stuff??

Aside from the two possibilities above or the bragging rights of being an ESO bazillionaire, what does a cool million get you that 100k doesn't?

(Having enough) Gold is not an issue for me. I fail to see what having 10 times that amount does for anyone.

And for those arguing the finer points of exploit/non-exploit, it may not be bannable, but pretty sure this was not the dev's intent. Doesn't need to be carved in stone to figure that one out, or the argument wouldn't even be taking place.

Saying that because the system currently allows you to do it makes it 'ok' is uses the same logic as 'It's not wrong unless you get caught.' C'mon.

It's why the ToS tell you to report anything you 'think' might be one.

Kudos to the characters with character.

What does a million get that 100k doesn't, more than one piece of certain gear drops. More than two of the highest value horses if you play alts. Enough stacks of grand soul gems to supply your PvP guild that doesn't get them through PvE. A full set of bank slots alone is like 700k or something.

Vahrokh · August 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Not to be difficult here...but can someone explain the grand purpose behind having absurd amounts of gold past a certain point, unless it's to benefit their guild or offset the war?

Seems to me it's as much work to do this, to get the gold, to buy other stuff, to not have to do the work to find the other stuff??

Aside from the two possibilities above or the bragging rights of being an ESO bazillionaire, what does a cool million get you that 100k doesn't?

(Having enough) Gold is not an issue for me. I fail to see what having 10 times that amount does for anyone.

And for those arguing the finer points of exploit/non-exploit, it may not be bannable, but pretty sure this was not the dev's intent. Doesn't need to be carved in stone to figure that one out, or the argument wouldn't even be taking place.

Saying that because the system currently allows you to do it makes it 'ok' is uses the same logic as 'It's not wrong unless you get caught.' C'mon.

It's why the ToS tell you to report anything you 'think' might be one.

Kudos to the characters with character.

I am sitting on a bit under 100k right now, in the past week I spent about 50k. 100k without a steady income to get more gold isn't enough.

I had as friend give me 5 pieces of warlock gear, including jewelry. If he hadn't, I would have ended up probably paying over 100k to get the set alone.

Soon vr13 will come out, I probably won't upgrade my gear right away (especially having this nice warlock set) but at some point it will happen, especially with the incessant increase in vet ranks (not happy about the gear treadmill, personally.) I will need a nice chunk of change for that.

if I had about 1 million gold, I would be comfortable for some time, and wouldn't have to worry about having to grind up more gold as soon as I make a purchase.

zgrssd · August 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

I think the issue is not the farming but the logging in and logging out repeatedly in order to get rare drops.

If you are logging in and out every minute, or faster, then I could see them having an issue because this will hit their system harder and could potentially impact performance of the server as a whole.

There is already an army of hoarders logging in and out constantly as they switch between mule alts. Just logging in and out a few times per hour is not going to be noticed.

The TOS explicitly has a rule to that.
"I will refrain from doing anything that will cause a undue strain on the servers."
The main reason we choose not to develop addons talking Guildwide via the Guild Member Notes (it is possible, but might be more load then the system is designed for).

Relogging a lot could be considered something like this. But it think they will give you a warning long before the ban. Why would they risk long term income over something that is likely just an honest mistake/unintentional?
At tops you might trip over some automatic detection system (by relogging that often) in wich case you would have to make an appeal.

We do have explicit word of god that "motif farming via relogging" was not a bannable offense. Just something they might do something about down the road with some changes.
Since that post was from 25th April, they propably already did something regarding it. I would think for something like this they choose a widespread technical solution over the banhammer.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

yes people getting a motif once every few days after farming containers, or even once a day, is just wrecking the economy.

Vahrokh · August 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Not to be difficult here...but can someone explain the grand purpose behind having absurd amounts of gold past a certain point, unless it's to benefit their guild or offset the war?

Seems to me it's as much work to do this, to get the gold, to buy other stuff, to not have to do the work to find the other stuff??

Aside from the two possibilities above or the bragging rights of being an ESO bazillionaire, what does a cool million get you that 100k doesn't?

Many are human failures in RL (real life) and don't play MMOs just for fun but also to be succesful "somewhere" since in RL they don't.

A typical symptom is the "packrat syndrome" where people work insanely hard to pointlessy fill themselves with all sorts of items and fake game gold as compensation for them being unable to well in RL.

So, the next time you see someone flaunting their million in game, think he could just be one of those guys.

Vahrokh · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

yes people getting a motif once every few days after farming containers, or even once a day, is just wrecking the economy.

Now, think more than 15 seconds before you click "Post Comment" and see what happens when you apply the same farming to a good third of farmable items in game, which also happen to respawn on log in and do it in the same containers where motifs can be found.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Not to be difficult here...but can someone explain the grand purpose behind having absurd amounts of gold past a certain point, unless it's to benefit their guild or offset the war?

Seems to me it's as much work to do this, to get the gold, to buy other stuff, to not have to do the work to find the other stuff??

Aside from the two possibilities above or the bragging rights of being an ESO bazillionaire, what does a cool million get you that 100k doesn't?

Many are human failures in RL (real life) and don't play MMOs just for fun but also to be succesful "somewhere" since in RL they don't.

A typical symptom is the "packrat syndrome" where people work insanely hard to pointlessy fill themselves with all sorts of items and fake game gold as compensation for them being unable to well in RL.

So, the next time you see someone flaunting their million in game, think he could just be one of those guys.

yes, exactly. All the people with money in the game are psychologically damaged and probably serial killers.

Also, they kick puppies and light kittens on fire.

Other than you know, enjoying playing the game ina way that is harmless and has no detrimental effect.

It's capitalism and the free market, most of you are probably die hard capitalists, how do you have a problem with this?

kitsinni · August 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

This is ESO in a nutshell. Even with a link to a ZOS employee stating specifically that this exact thing is not an exploit there is someone calling it "exploiting" and "cheaters".

I have never seen any other game where people throw the word exploit out so much. You can barely find a post with ten replies without exploit and entitled in it.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Saying that because the system currently allows you to do it makes it 'ok' is uses the same logic as 'It's not wrong unless you get caught.' C'mon.

Did you miss the part where they stated that it's working as designed, and is not considered an exploit?

@DenverRalphy‌, did you miss the part where they are intending to improve this not broken thing? Why do you suppose that is?

Do you not think there are other factors in play anytime something like this arises? Debate in-house about how many people will be ticked if it stays vs how many people will be ticked if it goes? What the benefit vs cost is for the company and the customers?

Equally just because it's not being fixed right now does not automatically mean it isn't broken.

I am quite clear as to what is says, and to what it means. I suspect everyone else here is to. It's just a question of which side of the fence you're comfortable being on, I suppose.

Maverick827 · August 2014

This might be relevant:

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2dfc7o/psa_gold_farming_is_a_suspendable_offense/

Guy claims he was suspended for farming mobs for gold. No bots, he was active and communicating. Signs point to automatic suspensions for certain activity (killing X amount mobs in the same area over Y time, etc.) or lazy GMs taking player reports as gospel and just suspending people flagged as bots, because how could a player be wrong or be lying?

Edit: It looks like the original post was removed by moderators. Because you can't discuss ESO disciplinary actions anywhere, apparently. Draconian ESO forum rules spread like viruses.

DenverRalphy · August 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Saying that because the system currently allows you to do it makes it 'ok' is uses the same logic as 'It's not wrong unless you get caught.' C'mon.

Did you miss the part where they stated that it's working as designed, and is not considered an exploit?

@DenverRalphy‌, did you miss the part where they are intending to improve this not broken thing? Why do you suppose that is?

Do you not think there are other factors in play anytime something like this arises? Debate in-house about how many people will be ticked if it stays vs how many people will be ticked if it goes? What the benefit vs cost is for the company and the customers?

Equally just because it's not being fixed right now does not automatically mean it isn't broken.

I am quite clear as to what is says, and to what it means. I suspect everyone else here is to. It's just a question of which side of the fence you're comfortable being on, I suppose.

They specifically stated that it's working as designed. They specifically said they do not consider it an exploit. They specifically said that they will probably improve it. Note that improve is not the same as fix.

Twist semantics all you want. They went out of their way to state that it is NOT an exploit.

At best, it's just a crummy mechanic. But exploit, it is not.

Tallowby · August 2014

Regarding timers being reset on reload....

Consume Food or Drink and log off.

Log back in and notice that that timer is unaffected by logging off and back on. It does not reset.

If it IS the devs intent, and that is what they wish then it would work the same way as the Provisioning timers.

I am not stating a moral choice here just that the devs are by not modifying the timers to how other are presently working in game..... If someone can get enjoyment out of logging out-back-out-back-out-back....ect good for them but not many will so I could care less.

We play a game for enjoyment and how we do that is up to the individual.

SFBryan18 · August 2014

Ok, so I guess the game was designed with the intent that we sign in and out multiple times to get rare things. Hard to believe a forums moderator signed off on this, but whatever. Probably the one time exploiters got the green light to abuse faulty game mechanics, but if you have the time then whatever floats your boat.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Ok, so I guess the game was designed with the intent that we sign in and out multiple times to get rare things. Hard to believe a forums moderator signed off on this, but whatever. Probably the one time exploiters got the green light to abuse faulty game mechanics, but if you have the time then whatever floats your boat.

As has been explained multiple times, it's not an exploit. It doesn't matter if you like it or not.

Nox_Aeterna · August 2014

You will not get a ban for it , so it is fair game right now.

Still im impressed you actually managed to find anything , since that first nerf to motifs , i never found one again , yep 0 motifs in months now lols and i mean any motif.

Cuyler · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

yes people getting a motif once every few days after farming containers, or even once a day, is just wrecking the economy.

First off I by no means condone this behavior simply because it is annoying to see the notifications all the time when people login/out.

I'm playing devils advocate here in that this strategy truly does not ruin the economy.

Gold is devalued when "new" gold enters the economy. For instance when you complete a quest or kill a mob and you are rewarded gold from the system. This is what true "gold farming" is and what is the bane of virtual economies that devs so desperately try to avoid botters from accumulating.

When someone is awarded an epic recipe and sells it for gold for instance, this does not add any new gold to the economy but is merely a trade of goods therefore not devaluing gold and most certainly has no true effect on the economy other than making the virtual poor jelly of the virtual rich.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Cuyler wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

yes people getting a motif once every few days after farming containers, or even once a day, is just wrecking the economy.

First off I by no means condone this behavior simply because it is annoying to see the notifications all the time when people login/out.

I'm playing devils advocate here in that this strategy truly does not ruin the economy.

Gold is devalued when "new" gold enters the economy. For instance when you complete a quest or kill a mob and you are rewarded gold from the system. This is what true "gold farming" is and what is the bane of virtual economies that devs so desperately try to avoid botters from accumulating.

When someone is awarded an epic recipe and sells it for gold for instance, this does not add any new gold to the economy but is merely a trade of goods therefore not devaluing gold and most certainly has no true effect on the economy other than making the virtual poor jelly of the virtual rich.

I think you responded to the wrong post lol, since mine was clearly a hyperbolically sarcastic statement.

Cuyler · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

and is an exploit.

Except it's been going on since release and ZOS have clearly said it's NOT an exploit and it's not a 'bannable' offense, so you're totally wrong.

It is an exploit, I had a very long number of mails with a ZoS CSR. She told she'd forward this exploit to the "upper spheres" to have it removed, but I see these upper spheres are fine with their economy being destroyed by cheaters.

yes people getting a motif once every few days after farming containers, or even once a day, is just wrecking the economy.

First off I by no means condone this behavior simply because it is annoying to see the notifications all the time when people login/out.

I'm playing devils advocate here in that this strategy truly does not ruin the economy.

Gold is devalued when "new" gold enters the economy. For instance when you complete a quest or kill a mob and you are rewarded gold from the system. This is what true "gold farming" is and what is the bane of virtual economies that devs so desperately try to avoid botters from accumulating.

When someone is awarded an epic recipe and sells it for gold for instance, this does not add any new gold to the economy but is merely a trade of goods therefore not devaluing gold and most certainly has no true effect on the economy other than making the virtual poor jelly of the virtual rich.

I think you responded to the wrong post lol, since mine was clearly a hyperbolically sarcastic statement.

ah yes I see this now...meant to only quote the post you quoted previously..meh

SFBryan18 · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Ok, so I guess the game was designed with the intent that we sign in and out multiple times to get rare things. Hard to believe a forums moderator signed off on this, but whatever. Probably the one time exploiters got the green light to abuse faulty game mechanics, but if you have the time then whatever floats your boat.

As has been explained multiple times, it's not an exploit. It doesn't matter if you like it or not.

I glitched 100 million dollars in GTA5. Never got banned or had the money removed. Doesn't mean it wasn't an exploit.

istateres · August 2014

I don't understand, can someone explain what is going on here?

If you find something rare in a chest / bag / barrel / etc. you pick it up, then log off (just the character or all the way out?), and log back in and the rare item is there again?????

UrQuan · August 2014

SFBryan18 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Ok, so I guess the game was designed with the intent that we sign in and out multiple times to get rare things. Hard to believe a forums moderator signed off on this, but whatever. Probably the one time exploiters got the green light to abuse faulty game mechanics, but if you have the time then whatever floats your boat.

As has been explained multiple times, it's not an exploit. It doesn't matter if you like it or not.

I glitched 100 million dollars in GTA5. Never got banned or had the money removed. Doesn't mean it wasn't an exploit.

Did representatives of GTA explicitly tell you that it wasn't an exploit? That's the difference between that scenario and what's being discussed here.

Cyberdown · August 2014

troll bait thread if you ask me.

unless this is the first ever mmo that the OP has played.

its safe to assume that with ANY online game if you are physically present and playing the game you will not get banned. if you use a bot to log on and collect stuff well...that's an obvious one.

SFBryan18 · August 2014

UrQuan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Ok, so I guess the game was designed with the intent that we sign in and out multiple times to get rare things. Hard to believe a forums moderator signed off on this, but whatever. Probably the one time exploiters got the green light to abuse faulty game mechanics, but if you have the time then whatever floats your boat.

As has been explained multiple times, it's not an exploit. It doesn't matter if you like it or not.

I glitched 100 million dollars in GTA5. Never got banned or had the money removed. Doesn't mean it wasn't an exploit.

Did representatives of GTA explicitly tell you that it wasn't an exploit? That's the difference between that scenario and what's being discussed here.

I can't argue against what the moderator said, but I'm pretty sure the devs did not intend for this to happen. It's pretty pointless to give someone rare items just because they log off. Why have the timers in the first place? You honestly believe the devs want us logging in and out all day?

kitsinni · August 2014

istateres wrote: »

I don't understand, can someone explain what is going on here?

If you find something rare in a chest / bag / barrel / etc. you pick it up, then log off (just the character or all the way out?), and log back in and the rare item is there again?????

No just that when you log off you can look in those same chests/bag/barrel again to try to see if there is something in there when you log back in. It doesn't get you anything automatically and doesn't duplicate items etc. Just those containers are reset.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2014

istateres wrote: »

I don't understand, can someone explain what is going on here?

If you find something rare in a chest / bag / barrel / etc. you pick it up, then log off (just the character or all the way out?), and log back in and the rare item is there again?????

@istateres‌, not exactly.

You log in and you find Beef.

You don't want Beef. Beef doesn't sell for $20,000 gold.

So you log out. And you log in. And you check again.

This time, it's a Stale Radish.

You don't want Stale Radish. Stale Radishes don't sell for $20,000 gold.

So you log out. And you log in. And you check again.

You keep doing this until the box magically has what you want, whether it takes 10 times, or 10,000 times.

And the argument (mostly) being presented here is that because you can do this, because they don't prevent you from doing this, because this is not an exploit because they don't prevent you from doing this, that it must, by default, be what the Dev's intended.

Cuyler wrote: »

First off I by no means condone this behavior simply because it is annoying to see the notifications all the time when people login/out.

I'm playing devils advocate here in that this strategy truly does not ruin the economy.

Gold is devalued when "new" gold enters the economy. For instance when you complete a quest or kill a mob and you are rewarded gold from the system. This is what true "gold farming" is and what is the bane of virtual economies that devs so desperately try to avoid botters from accumulating.

When someone is awarded an epic recipe and sells it for gold for instance, this does not add any new gold to the economy but is merely a trade of goods therefore not devaluing gold and most certainly has no true effect on the economy other than making the virtual poor jelly of the virtual rich.

@Cuyler, I'll be advocate to your advocate, as it's producing a high value item at a faster than normal rate where it did not exist before. Quests produce quest items and gold. When they produce them improperly, allowing advantage, it's a called a bug or an exploit.

In such cases, they consider how big of an effect it has overall. If you're doing it (anyone, not @Cuyler, you're either justifying it and okay with it - which is fine, or you're justifying it knowing it's not.)

It's not spelled out, so it's a judgement call. Plain and simple.

To me, it's about one step below counterfitting the goods themselves, as they would normally not spawn as many times in that timeframe as what they are given the method above.

If they did, there would be little need to use this method, as they would spawn at the rate the Dev's intended.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

SFBryan18 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Ok, so I guess the game was designed with the intent that we sign in and out multiple times to get rare things. Hard to believe a forums moderator signed off on this, but whatever. Probably the one time exploiters got the green light to abuse faulty game mechanics, but if you have the time then whatever floats your boat.

As has been explained multiple times, it's not an exploit. It doesn't matter if you like it or not.

I glitched 100 million dollars in GTA5. Never got banned or had the money removed. Doesn't mean it wasn't an exploit.

Did representatives of GTA explicitly tell you that it wasn't an exploit? That's the difference between that scenario and what's being discussed here.

I can't argue against what the moderator said, but I'm pretty sure the devs did not intend for this to happen. It's pretty pointless to give someone rare items just because they log off. Why have the timers in the first place? You honestly believe the devs want us logging in and out all day?

but you ARE arguing. Just admit you are wrong ffs. It doesn't even matter if the devs intended for it to happen, lots of features get used in unintended ways that are not exploits.

It is 100% non-bannable and okay per the devs.

istateres · August 2014

WOW. I must be stupid because it seems like it would be WAY easier to just move on to the next bag / barrel / etc. rather than logging off. Plus, I ofetn get a 10 sec logoff delay, which would make this whole thing take forever.

Really, players do this???

kitsinni · August 2014

istateres wrote: »

WOW. I must be stupid because it seems like it would be WAY easier to just move on to the next bag / barrel / etc. rather than logging off. Plus, I ofetn get a 10 sec logoff delay, which would make this whole thing take forever.

Really, players do this???

There are places with around 30 containers in a small area. It would actually take more time to run to the next place than to log out and start over.

kitsinni · August 2014

Also bag/barrels are not really what people are looking for. It is cabinets, lockboxes, desks etc.