@ezareth_ESO‌ You can't have proper AoE build without streak so calling sorcerers that use it garbage is silly Ball of lightning actually makes it harder to use more BE since it takes away all incoming damage. Which means You don't get magicka back from harness magicka.

skwornub18_ESO wrote: »

This is still abused wholesale. Please do something about it. Really tire dof mages being able to perma port and still suffer no mana issues

While i agree...the only way to realistically fix this skill is an internal cooldown which this game promised they would not do....initially......or make it so nobody wants to use it. I prefer they just bolt all they want tbh.

Honfold wrote: »

I understand that it is frustrating when a sorcerer can just bolt away, but that also means that they are effectively no longer part of the battle and you have done your job.

No they are still part of the battle. They don't just ride off into the sunset never to be heard from again. That bolting sorc can go put up a camp, dark exchange and bolt back to prevent you from leaving, or come back to continually keep your group in combat so they can't mount.

In my spontaneous 1v1s with sorcs it is only on a very rare occasion that they actually bolt escape and leave. Almost invariably they BE away to regen so they can have another go at you while you're trying to get out of combat and mount to head to your destination. Bolt escaping away is almost never the end of the story.

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

...
Nightblades with the right setup can now SNEAK as fast as I can bolt escape. I had one chase me across half the map before I had to turn and kill him. I'm not complaining on the forums about Night blades....
...

Why didn't you just turn around, engage him or her in combat, then bolt away after he or she was toggled to in-combat?
The sneak setup only works when undetected and out of combat. Once combat is entered, Night's Silence loses its speed bonus completely until the player is able to get out of combat and return to undetected; plenty of time to bolt away before he or she gets the sneak speed back.

Or are you asking for Bolt Escape to be made so that it doesn't work while in combat like sneak?

Samadhi wrote: »

zac_sooleprb18_ESO wrote: »

You mean NB can use a skill that most the time does not work but takes your magicka anyways. Then when it does work it pops you out about 0.01 second into the 2.5 second timer or you get hit by any kind of dot and pop out also both wasting your magicka. AND wait for it, even when it does work with 2.5 seconds duration at that snail pace speed you can get a whole 2 feet away from your attacker.

Dont act like it is at all a viable way to run from someone. Unless you are a vamp with that set that does 60% speed bonus. In which case 1) you HAVE to play a vamp and they look derp or 2) lose a good bonus 5/5 set just to have a chance to have a ability that is as good as bolt if you take away all the times it just does not work and takes your magicka anyways....

No NB dont have a way to turtle or escape...

Neither Vampire nor Night's Silence set impact the viability of Cloak as an escape in any way; neither of their bonuses work with Cloak, only with sneak.

The only way to increase speed in Cloak is with Concealed Weapon slotted; however, that's still moving at slower than sprinting speed.

Eh, you're wrong that Vampire speed boost doesn't work with cloak... utterly wrong.

I wouldn't know about the set bonus, but you're half wrong at least.

Armitas wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

I understand that it is frustrating when a sorcerer can just bolt away, but that also means that they are effectively no longer part of the battle and you have done your job.

No they are still part of the battle. They don't just ride off into the sunset never to be heard from again. That bolting sorc can go put up a camp, dark exchange and bolt back to prevent you from leaving, or come back to continually keep your group in combat so they can't mount.

In my spontaneous 1v1s with sorcs it is only on a very rare occasion that they actually bolt escape and leave. Almost invariably they BE away to regen so they can have another go at you while you're trying to get out of combat and mount to head to your destination. Bolt escaping away is almost never the end of the story.

And you reflect 90% of my abilities. WOE IS ME

Crystal shards should not be 90% of your ability. Whether you chose to shard or not has nothing to do with whether or not an escaped sorc is or is not still part of the battle.

Her point is that you shouldn't complain about another class' ability simply because it's effective and you don't like it. Your class has it's own abilities which counter those of others. Adjust your tactics instead of calling for a nerf.

Shards is one of the most used 'sorc class' damage ability in pvp, btw.

NorthernFury wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

I understand that it is frustrating when a sorcerer can just bolt away, but that also means that they are effectively no longer part of the battle and you have done your job.

No they are still part of the battle. They don't just ride off into the sunset never to be heard from again. That bolting sorc can go put up a camp, dark exchange and bolt back to prevent you from leaving, or come back to continually keep your group in combat so they can't mount.

In my spontaneous 1v1s with sorcs it is only on a very rare occasion that they actually bolt escape and leave. Almost invariably they BE away to regen so they can have another go at you while you're trying to get out of combat and mount to head to your destination. Bolt escaping away is almost never the end of the story.

And you reflect 90% of my abilities. WOE IS ME

Crystal shards should not be 90% of your ability. Whether you chose to shard or not has nothing to do with whether or not an escaped sorc is or is not still part of the battle.

Her point is that you shouldn't complain about another class' ability simply because it's effective and you don't like it. Your class has it's own abilities which counter those of others. Adjust your tactics instead of calling for a nerf.

Shards is one of the most used 'sorc class' damage ability in pvp, btw.

Then her point, and your comment is completely out of context regarding my remark to a post saying that a sorc that has bolted away is "no longer a part of the battle and your job is done". DK's having reflect is not going to make that statement a true statement. They have no bearing on each other.

I am well rounded, with DK making up for only 20% of my ability.

griszax wrote: »

@ezareth_ESO‌ You can't have proper AoE build without streak so calling sorcerers that use it garbage is silly Ball of lightning actually makes it harder to use more BE since it takes away all incoming damage. Which means You don't get magicka back from harness magicka.

I didn't call all Sorcs who use it garbage, only most of the garbage sorcs that I see. They run in and die constantly. Regardless I don't AoE and I feel the class can be far more useful in other ways.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Can you give me the name of the Sorc that kept BE up for 5 minutes, because soft capped on magicka regen and 100 points of the magicka soft-cap, I can get 5 casts out of it. That's full magicka to empty.

It's awesome skill don't get me wrong, but no-one can keep it up for that long (that's what she said). I'm guessing he times it and does it every 4 secs or he uses pots, or both.

The math simply doesn't add up here. First cast is expensive, second in 4 seconds costs 50% more, and Magicka regen is reduced for a period after first cast - multiple casts continue this.

And @skwornub18_ESO, why wouldn't you have to retarget? I have to retarget if you move significantly? They're not all AoE. We have to aim too.

Plus, if they're BE'ing for 5 minutes, they're not casting other spells. Why weren't you doing damage during the pauses?

How did this ultimately end?

If you could BE on end, Sorc's would still be using it for transit in place of the horse. Such is no longer the case.
[/quote]

I've had packs of 5-20 people chasing me for 10-30 minutes. You can bolt escape endlessly as long as you can continue to get pauses where you aren't interrupted to cast Dark exchange. And you'll be using tri-stat potions on every cooldown.

The only reason Sorc's could keep up with people on horseback back in the day is because no one had speed on their horses yet. Now, I can keep abreast of a max speed horse, maybe even gain slightly on him, but as soon as I have to stop and Dark Exchange he's far far ahead of me.

Samadhi wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

...
Nightblades with the right setup can now SNEAK as fast as I can bolt escape. I had one chase me across half the map before I had to turn and kill him. I'm not complaining on the forums about Night blades....
...

Why didn't you just turn around, engage him or her in combat, then bolt away after he or she was toggled to in-combat?
The sneak setup only works when undetected and out of combat. Once combat is entered, Night's Silence loses its speed bonus completely until the player is able to get out of combat and return to undetected; plenty of time to bolt away before he or she gets the sneak speed back.

Or are you asking for Bolt Escape to be made so that it doesn't work while in combat like sneak?

He kept pace with me and was "spotting" for the posse that was chasing me. I had no idea how they knew where I was until he finally jumped me when I was out of magicka and starting a Dark Exchange.

As I said I think it is fine and I'm a firm believer in the L2P philosophy. When I find something that is effective against me or my team strategy I'll either mimic it, or find a better way to counter it.

Armitas wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

I understand that it is frustrating when a sorcerer can just bolt away, but that also means that they are effectively no longer part of the battle and you have done your job.

No they are still part of the battle. They don't just ride off into the sunset never to be heard from again. That bolting sorc can go put up a camp, dark exchange and bolt back to prevent you from leaving, or come back to continually keep your group in combat so they can't mount.

In my spontaneous 1v1s with sorcs it is only on a very rare occasion that they actually bolt escape and leave. Almost invariably they BE away to regen so they can have another go at you while you're trying to get out of combat and mount to head to your destination. Bolt escaping away is almost never the end of the story.

And you reflect 90% of my abilities. WOE IS ME

Crystal shards should not be 90% of your ability. Whether you chose to shard or not has nothing to do with whether or not an escaped sorc is or is not still part of the battle.

Crystal Shards, Power Overload, Mages Fury (after 20%). That leaves our damaging class abilities to Curse which even morphed can only be cast every 3.5 seconds. It is damn near impossible to kill a DK who keeps his reflective scales up. I have an internal clock in my head that counts the seconds until his last scale and I toss an instant cast fragment in the moment that it wears off.

NookyZooky wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Nala_ wrote: »

im not arguing anything, but the person who originally posted said that sorcs dont even roll out of talons because they can teleport OUT of it, which is not true, they can teleport with it ON them, but they still have to rolldodge to get out of it.

all im doing is correcting your statement, whether or not sorcs should be able to teleport with it on them, is something i dont have an opinion on one way or another

That's picking on semantics to ignore the essence of the statement. Which is that Sorcs can move to their direction of choice (by teleporting) while rooted without having to roll, and all other classes can't. And that also by teleporting through you they do damage and stun you to boot.

Whether in relation to the talons they are in, out, in out, shake it all about...I couldn't care less.

You can't bolt in your direction of choice while rooted, you can only bolt forward. If you want to turn you need to roll out of them.

So who cares if a sorc can bolt escape while rooted Talons? It's an AOE root.

Are we crying that a DK can reflective scales almost every Sorc ability? Crystal Fragments, Power Overload, Mages Fury Explosion...all get reflected by a single ability that DKs have. Like you we learn to deal with it, that's part of the matchup.

Sorcs are the most mobile class in the game and there isn't a Sorc in the game who can bolt escape more than I can right now.

Pre nerf I could Bolt Escape 14 times in a row. Post nerf I could do 7. Now I can do 10, but my entire build and gear is built around it and few sorcs come close to it.

Since most garbage sorcs run Streak these days, try sending a sorc to chase them down. It is only those who have Ball Lightning that are a PITA to catch but it can be done.

Nightblades with the right setup can now SNEAK as fast as I can bolt escape. I had one chase me across half the map before I had to turn and kill him. I'm not complaining on the forums about Night blades....or the fact that pretty much every Templar in the game does nothing but spam Sun shield and you have to run them OOM before you can kill them which takes a long damn time even with multiple people.

The point is, it's fine. Just because you're not having success killing every sorc you see doesn't mean they need nerfed. When I'm doing my daily quests, my Sorc kills tick as fast or faster than any other class.

a NB could keep up with your Be in SNEAK? how did he/she manage that?

I know next to nothing about playing a nightblade but I assume it is Vampire + Night's Silence. I have a guy in my guild who looks like he has the speed hack while he is stealthed when he uses a run speed pot or we give him retreating maneuvers. He just flies across the map.....in stealth.

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

...
I know next to nothing about playing a nightblade but I assume it is Vampire + Night's Silence. I have a guy in my guild who looks like he has the speed hack while he is stealthed when he uses a run speed pot or we give him retreating maneuvers. He just flies across the map.....in stealth.

Any class can do the Vampire + Night's Silence speed.
The unique bonus that makes Nightblades faster when doing it comes from slotting Concealed Weapon -- this skill increases sneak speed by 25% while slotted, which stacks on top of the other bonuses.

With Vampire + Night's Silence I move at 160% regular running speed (144% with weapon drawn).
With Vampire + Night's Silence + Concealed Weapon I move at 185% regular running speed (166% with weapon drawn).
Add a Speed potion into the mix and it jumps up to 240% for the 10 second duration (185% with weapon drawn).

Both Night's Silence and Concealed Weapon sneak speed bonuses are unavailable when detected or in combat though.
Using Cloak (invisibility skill) in combat while crouched will not activate Night's Silence bonus; it will however activate the Concealed Weapon bonus for the 2.9 second duration.

I don't throw in Maneuvers though; it costs a substantial amount of Stamina which is detrimental to how long I can sneak.

*Note: all speed data collected using RavSpeed addon: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info423-ravSpeed.html

Armitas wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Crystal Shards, Power Overload, Mages Fury (after 20%). That leaves our damaging class abilities to Curse which even morphed can only be cast every 3.5 seconds. It is damn near impossible to kill a DK who keeps his reflective scales up. I have an internal clock in my head that counts the seconds until his last scale and I toss an instant cast fragment in the moment that it wears off.

Power overload should be counterable, just as my banner is counterable by negate. As far as mages fury you have my complete support in that the explosion should not be reflectable.

You are already doing what you should be doing though. Counting the 4 seconds, and watching for the bat wings while using the procs instead of the casts. Even if you slip up you can still cancel the cast or block the return. Sorcs also have their own skill to handle spell projectiles so why shouldn't we, who actually have no innate ranged attacks, have something to manage projectiles? I'm a ranged DK without reflect and I have to deal with the same thing everyday out there, but I manage, just like you, watching and timing my attacks with a well rounded build.

I'm tired of arguing with DKs.
If you want BE nerfed, please get rid of RS and GDB.

Armitas wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Crystal Shards, Power Overload, Mages Fury (after 20%). That leaves our damaging class abilities to Curse which even morphed can only be cast every 3.5 seconds. It is damn near impossible to kill a DK who keeps his reflective scales up. I have an internal clock in my head that counts the seconds until his last scale and I toss an instant cast fragment in the moment that it wears off.

Power overload should be counterable, just as my banner is counterable by negate. As far as mages fury you have my complete support in that the explosion should not be reflectable.

You are already doing what you should be doing though. Counting the 4 seconds, and watching for the bat wings while using the procs instead of the casts. Even if you slip up you can still cancel the cast or block the return. Sorcs also have their own skill to handle spell projectiles so why shouldn't we, who actually have no innate ranged attacks, have something to manage projectiles? I'm a ranged DK without reflect and I have to deal with the same thing everyday out there, but I manage, just like you, watching and timing my attacks with a well rounded build.

Note I'm not complaining about it (although the mage's fury is a bug and needs fixed), just countering the argument that for some reason Bolt Escape working while hit with Talon's is unfair. There are hard counters to almost every ability in the game. That's why we can all change our builds how we like and we are always going to be strong against some players and weaker against others.

I'm not sure offhand what skill you're referring to on spell projectiles unless you mean ball lightning the bolt escape morph. Biggest problem with ball lightning is it works maybe 70% of the time. If I see sorcs casting fragments on me and I'm standing next to my ball lightning I still hold my block before it arrives to my position because too many times it goes right through ball lightning and hits me.

Using bolt escape results in halfed magicka recovery and on top of that every bolt escape costs twice as much ( it says 50 percent more but its not) I.e if bolt escape normally costs 200 it now costs 400, at least thats how it been for mine. Also every class has annoying abilities, the way NB who are SPEC'D for it can disappear mid combat and get away by remaining in stealth is absolutely frustrating. But I would hate for that to be changed. Its a pretty key component to NB. As is Bolt escape to sorcs and the spell has already been hurt so much.
Anyways the only way I get away with using bolt escape is if I have nearly full mana and a invis pot ready. This rarely happens..

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I'm not sure offhand what skill you're referring to on spell projectiles unless you mean ball lightning the bolt escape morph. Biggest problem with ball lightning is it works maybe 70% of the time. If I see sorcs casting fragments on me and I'm standing next to my ball lightning I still hold my block before it arrives to my position because too many times it goes right through ball lightning and hits me.

Thats correct, I was referring to ball lightning. I know that the ball will not absorb an already initiated projectile. So if a shard is being cast and you pop a ball it will hit you, but the next one initiated should hit the existing ball. I have seen something similar to this while blocking a shard or an invasion. You can complete a block before the hit visibly lands but if the block didn't occur in some hidden phase of the attack it wont count. Reflect behaves this way as well. Is it failing to absorb new casts or just current projectiles?

Baphomet wrote: »

With ~2400 magicka and ~180 magicka regen it doesn't take a genious to realize that sorcs can cast bolt escape a lot of times again.

You can't have 180 regen (exaggerate much?) AND a ton of cost reduce, js.

People seriously need to stop complaining about sorcs.

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

With ~2400 magicka and ~180 magicka regen it doesn't take a genious to realize that sorcs can cast bolt escape a lot of times again.

You can't have 180 regen (exaggerate much?) AND a ton of cost reduce, js.

People seriously need to stop complaining about sorcs.

There was a sorc once who kept moving my cheese.

Therefore I shall complain bitterly about said behavior.

No cheese for you!!