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Nothing should hit for over 1k damage.
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AelyinESO✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »Went into Cyrodiil last night for a bit (joined a siege, and that was fun for a while), and what I saw was just what I was saying.
I left the outpost, ran a short distance toward where the siege was happening, and an invisible attacker hit me, which left me with nearly no health, stunned and knocked down. Before I could break the CC, I was dead. No chance to respond. This happened over and over, and really wasn't any fun.
Now, imagine someone trying PvP for the first time experiencing that. They're just going to say, "screw this," and go back to PvE.
Instant kills where someone is unable to fight back is BAD for the game. It's really just that simple. Everyone needs to be competitive.
This ^, agree.
And another thing is AMBUSH and SNIPE, that'r hittin 1.3-1.8K DMG.
Sometimes PVP gets really hard to play, specially for "stunned and knocked down. Before I could break the CC, I was dead"
This happens VERY often.
I would like more balance at PVP, but...
People only think that SORC are OP, but only, and only CC is a good skill.
SORC's can hit HARD (like, NB (AMBUSH) and DK) but NO DEFENSE SKILL.Edited by AelyinESO on August 11, 2014 10:38PMNA PC Server - CP810 - Played Since Beta 2014, but left for 4 years, coz games got unbalancing, boring and too much expensive (still?)
- MagSorc (50) - DPS
- MagTem (50) - Healer
- StamDK (50) - Tank
- StamNecro (50) - DPS
- StamTem (developing) - DPS
- MagNecro (developing) - DPS
- MagWard (developing) - Healer
- Stamblade (developing) - DPS
"Stop nerfing Sorcerers please"
"Stop putting most interesting items inside a lucky Crate costing money"1 -
Persephonius✭✭✭VR12 sorc with Templar friend (Ebonheart) vs DK and Templar (Daggerfall)
2vs2 set up, start!
10 minutes later we all die, thanks AD..
So yeah my point is:
I rarely get one shotted but it has happened I don't think the values are extreme, Crystal Fragments hit for ~750 base damage and ~1500 crit, did a couple of one shots due to Soul Assault or Meteor + CF but it is not common.
You have not much but a few moments to dodge almost any skill in the game even when instant casts like CF, double tap, block, run, whatever...
Crystal fragments hit for 750 base and 1500 crit? I thought a crit was +50% damage and not 100% damage?0 -
Suhxtob-yu✭✭✭question for the OP...
Should nothing heal or absorb over 1k as well then?
Not imo. That is another thing that I think people are taking overboard with my comment. I do think 1k damage/heals are ok. Just no need for anything to go OVER 1k. But even then, it really should only be ultimates that hit that hard. No regular ability should hit like an Atom bomb.0 -
Suhxtob-yu✭✭✭Yeah, crits. Think of it like this, only ultimate abilities should hit/heal like frieght trains. It should be rare.... Not spammable. So yes crit hits of ultimate abilities. Going against an able minded person wearing PvP specific armor/traits/enchantments..... Do I seriously have to explain every detail?
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AtriasNaradan✭✭✭For the stealth problem, i think a more subtle approach would be making zero player to player range of total invisibility as NB only and in a form of an active skill, that's active for a set period of time with some amount of magicka cost (since it's more logic to be a magic skill).
While for other class (and NB when not using that actives), it have a range of let say more than 30 metres, before it's close enough to be visible from the front side, and the minimal range degrade the further away from the opponent front view (in a wide cone/fan shape, let say 150 degree wide). That will also be more logically accepted based on our real life eye sight capability. Of course, spells like magelight then function to make the caster point of view magically covers a certain fix range around us.
That option will make sneaking takes more real skill, and not as easy to run away from a fight as doing a simple crouching like 5 metres away in front of opponents.
......
As for more than 1K base burst damages, i think it should still exist in ultimate form skills at the least. I still think something that deal more than 1K overtime got to exist on normal skills though.
Also that armor actives...making their benefit based on spreadt buffs on every pieces of the related type of armor is the best, i think. For example, Immovable activation add 500 defense for every piece of heavy armor equipped. That way, you can get a range of 0 - 3.5K armor buff from that skill activation, depending on how many pieces of heavy armor you wear. this is most logical, since how can you be the same immovable when you use plates and when you use clothes.Edited by AtriasNaradan on August 12, 2014 8:59AM0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Suhxtob-yu wrote: »Not really though. I gave enough information, combined with everyone's own personal knowledge of the games simplest mechanics, to understand the main topic.
No, you've not. You've totally misunderstood the games simplest mechanics.Suhxtob-yu wrote: »Because all I am getting from you is spiteful comments.
Comically the only person taking the same stance as you in this thread is also someone else who's been totally unable to take advice or criticism in the past as well.
Again for you. You've been told how to deal with 1k of damage and if you're getting hit for 1k of damage and not holding block and popping potion/casting instant heal then you're doing it wrong.
IF you're getting hit by unbreakabe CC or the (should be fixed now) health bar bug where your health is fine and then you're instantly dead (which is what I actually think is happening to you) and dying from 1k shots then your issue is with that bug and bugged CC, not with 1k hits.Suhxtob-yu wrote: »one of the people who enjoys a 1 on 1 fight that lasts 2 seconds or you are salty from meeting up with me.
Anyone that tries to snipe me with 3.2k health (nope, I'm not VR12, not even close) and is just about managing a 1k hit is going to get a pretty nasty shock right after. Snipe from stealth does not have the unbreakable bug, hold down block to break the CC, dodge roll to avoid the next snipe, hold block and pop potion.
Frankly, I find it comical that you even think this is a problem next to things like broken and unbreakable CC followed by 2.5k's worth of flame flash spam.Suhxtob-yu wrote: »Either way, I ask politely that you stay on topic and stop trying to derail the conversation towards your greatness/my incompetence.
Your tactics are flawed, standing there spamming a skill at someone that just hit you for 1k will get you killed, learn when to defend and when to attack. Getting hit for one 1k damage and doing anything other than blocking and healing is doing it wrong.Edited by CapuchinSeven on August 12, 2014 9:39AM0 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Come on mate, where you live/play?
Even a Templar in 5 HA 2 LA, with 2 spell penetration purple swords, can by pass the mediocre 2300 spell resistance most have. Hell it goes all way to 12K with that setup.
A 7/7 Light setup has even more spell penetration.
The game to be balanced at PvP needs to remove
a) The spell & armour penetration Cyrodiil buff.
b) Tone down the spell & armour penetration stats or even remove it.
That way, heavy armour will work, stamina builds will become viable, because the damage output will be in par of that of a caster and the list goes on. And 3000 HP will feel that, not 2 seconds life.
Isn't after all that everyone wants? More viable stamina builds? Better longer battles? Here is your solution.
Or else, my Soul Ultimate will still be hitting for 3100 damage eliminating everyone but someone who gets healed by 2-3 players. My NB will still two shot anyone from stealth with Ambush, and my DK will always cripple it's opponent with unbreakable CC, having the whip doing 600 damage per hit and the standard for 2600.
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Persephonius✭✭✭Morgha_Kul wrote: »Went into Cyrodiil last night for a bit (joined a siege, and that was fun for a while), and what I saw was just what I was saying.
I left the outpost, ran a short distance toward where the siege was happening, and an invisible attacker hit me, which left me with nearly no health, stunned and knocked down. Before I could break the CC, I was dead. No chance to respond. This happened over and over, and really wasn't any fun.
Now, imagine someone trying PvP for the first time experiencing that. They're just going to say, "screw this," and go back to PvE.
Instant kills where someone is unable to fight back is BAD for the game. It's really just that simple. Everyone needs to be competitive.
SORC's can hit HARD (like, NB (AMBUSH) and DK) but NO DEFENSE SKILL.
Streak/bolt escape, hardened ward, thundering presence/boundless storm, encase, rune prison, daedric mines, negate ... these can be used defensively.Edited by Persephonius on August 12, 2014 11:09AM0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »Come on mate, where you live/play?
Even a Templar in 5 HA 2 LA, with 2 spell penetration purple swords, can by pass the mediocre 2300 spell resistance most have. Hell it goes all way to 12K with that setup.
Why are you not holding block as soon as you're hit by the first 1k?
Have I ever died to hard hits because I had no stamina to block with or I had very little health? Yes, but I'd die to lots of 200 hits if I had no stamina to block with as well.
It doesn't change anything, if you're getting hit for 1k and you're not instantly holding block then you're playing the game wrong.
If they have hit you with unbreakable CC then your problem is with bugged CC not with 1k hits. If they break your block, then they outplayed you, move on.
Block block block block block. It is everyone's main source of mitigation, not armour.0 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »
Why are you not holding block as soon as you're hit by the first 1k?
Have I ever died to hard hits because I had no stamina to block with or I had very little health? Yes, but I'd die to lots of 200 hits if I had no stamina to block with as well.
It doesn't change anything, if you're getting hit for 1k and you're not instantly holding block then you're playing the game wrong.
If they have hit you with unbreakable CC then your problem is with bugged CC not with 1k hits. If they break your block, then they outplayed you, move on.
Block block block block block. It is everyone's main source of mitigation, not armour.
Probably your reply was going to someone else??
I use shield and is always on block, with 5 HA, plus all passives, it drains almost to no stamina when hit.
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Morgha_Kul✭✭✭✭✭
✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »Come on mate, where you live/play?
Even a Templar in 5 HA 2 LA, with 2 spell penetration purple swords, can by pass the mediocre 2300 spell resistance most have. Hell it goes all way to 12K with that setup.
Why are you not holding block as soon as you're hit by the first 1k?
Have I ever died to hard hits because I had no stamina to block with or I had very little health? Yes, but I'd die to lots of 200 hits if I had no stamina to block with as well.
It doesn't change anything, if you're getting hit for 1k and you're not instantly holding block then you're playing the game wrong.
If they have hit you with unbreakable CC then your problem is with bugged CC not with 1k hits. If they break your block, then they outplayed you, move on.
Block block block block block. It is everyone's main source of mitigation, not armour.
Can't block if you're stunned and/or knocked down, and you won't know to do it if you're attacked by an invisible foe.Exploring Tamriel since 1994.0 -
JLB✭✭✭✭I think the OP has a point, but I don't think damage/heals are the problem. Health should have higher values to make PvP more interesting and balanced.
An increase in Health in PvP without changing actual damage or heals would only bring benefits to PvP.
No more 2s combats. More room to counteract no brainer zergball strategies that actually win, or even more time to react to certain bugs that never get fixed. More elaborated solo and group strategies in general.0 -
Morgha_Kul wrote: »CapuchinSeven wrote: »
Why are you not holding block as soon as you're hit by the first 1k?
It doesn't change anything, if you're getting hit for 1k and you're not instantly holding block then you're playing the game wrong.
When using a bow and medium armor, the point of blocking is ... what?
But then you already told me: "you are doing it wrong."
It would be nice if the there were other viable counter's to all this instant, spammable stuns then- do more of those, only do them first or
- block with your shield
- get out of Cyrodil and enjoy PvE while it lasts.
- have any CC have a cast time of at least 1.2 seconds
- increase the dodge rate of medium armor for that to become a viable on par alternative to light or heavy, allowing all of those their different play-styles
All you can do is spam 'break free' and after a few seconds of that (with health maxed out), you are either dead anyway or have not even the stamina left to run, dodge, forget about fight back and then die.
This is not fighting.
So with no counter, at least for some classes or play styles, those either have to start over from scratch and play it your way or quit altogether. (Our way or the highway was the quote, yes?)
And guess what options is the more likely one for those who on't power level their char to VR12 in a day or two.
And frankly speaking if that is now (or in the future) the only crowd in Cyrodil, this one would cancel his subscription and never look back.0 -
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Went into Cyrodiil last night for a bit (joined a siege, and that was fun for a while), and what I saw was just what I was saying.
I left the outpost, ran a short distance toward where the siege was happening, and an invisible attacker hit me, which left me with nearly no health, stunned and knocked down. Before I could break the CC, I was dead. No chance to respond. This happened over and over, and really wasn't any fun.
Now, imagine someone trying PvP for the first time experiencing that. They're just going to say, "screw this," and go back to PvE.
Instant kills where someone is unable to fight back is BAD for the game. It's really just that simple. Everyone needs to be competitive.
they are not that instant though. with flight animation i can it you with three moves that converge together and then channel a 4th while u cc. its the suprise that gets you not unfair advantage. travel in groups if you dont want to get ganked.0 -
Code2501✭✭✭✭- for melee nightblades, well, 99% (or more) of them are using AMBUSH skill. If you don't know, that's the one which TELEPORTS you to the target, STUNS IT (doesn't matter from which side it's used) and deals moderate damage (increased to 300% when hit from sneak from behind- or as I suggested, JUST FROM BEHIND)
Ambush is useful as a gap closer vs ranged enemies, and it looks sexy, but its not OP by any means.
The stun on Ambush is only 1.5 seconds, and the damage is actually not fantastic for a single target skill. Even with a 3x sneak bonus on open, Ambush only deals 160% the damage of a regular Sorcerors crystal which stuns for 2 seconds.
After the opening sneak attack, Ambush does half the damage of a regular crystal, so its really only a one off burst and I don't think it would hit even a naked player hard enough to put them into an executable health range (i.e. <25%).
The hardest hitting stealth openers are melee only, which are easily countered by magelight.
Re stealth, I think it would have been cool to have some light sensitivity too, combined with view obstruction, but we have to play with what were dealt.
Edited by Code2501 on August 19, 2014 1:08PM0 -
Stannum✭✭✭✭Ridiculous. Spend more points to health, use blocks and you will not be oneshotted.
They have done 1.5k hp light armour magika builds and then whine1 -
Pmarsico9✭✭✭✭guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »Hardcaps on damage is just a laughably bad idea.
There's already too many artificial "control" hardcaps on things like heavy armor.
This one would destroy the game.
Also: OP is a massive troll,
Makes a thread complaining about being two shot then says he never gets two shot.
GTFO
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Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm just curious about some examples of abilities that can be "spammed" for "OVER 1k damage" that are not critical hits.
As far as I'm aware, base damage that high is generally coming from castable (interruptable) abilities, stealth openers that can't be spammed, or Ultimates.Edited by Varicite on August 19, 2014 10:09PM0 -
I'm just curious about some examples of abilities that can be "spammed" for "OVER 1k damage" that are not critical hits.
Examples:
NONE
My V12 Sorc, w/ 2400 stamina and wpn dmg overcharged to 226.
Casting Snipe at max range, I can only get 700ish non crit in PvP.
Edited by Richard.A.Ferrellub17_ESO on August 20, 2014 12:42AM0 -
Suhxtob-yu✭✭✭guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »Hardcaps on damage is just a laughably bad idea.
There's already too many artificial "control" hardcaps on things like heavy armor.
This one would destroy the game.
Also: OP is a massive troll,
Makes a thread complaining about being two shot then says he never gets two shot.
GTFO
I never said in the OP that I got 2 shotted. What I said was 2 second fights. You sir sound more like a troll by putting words in my mouth.
I will state this again for the slow people......NOTHING SHOULD HIT FOR OVER 1K. I am not even talking about certain moves/skills but more an overall assessment. There have been times that a mage guard will hit for 2.8k.... I am not singling out anyone so I don't understand why people insist on attemping to single me out.
Just to clarify for the record, I do not wear light armor. I do not have 1.5k health.
This is my final response to the "L2P" crowd. Learn to read......
All of the assumptions are a bit trite.
On a side note, does anyone have any "Troll-B-Gone" that I can use?Edited by Suhxtob-yu on August 20, 2014 10:20AM0 -
Tarkit✭✭Capping damage is not a smart move. To build for a lot of damage you need to sacrifice a lot of health so you're a glass cannon which makes for fun targets
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Kypho✭✭✭✭k4ntermoose wrote: »Rofl @ OP.
You can heal faster than 1k dmg hits can be dished out.
Get to vr12, test all the skills and combos - then lets discuss.
If you can't avoid 1k hit, or two in a row get out of PvP. People generally suck in PvP and look for the quickest and easiest way to win. If its two shots and some light attacks with a bow - oh wait seems half of PvP is in bow now. Catching on?
What makes a great pvp player? One who adapts. Bow scrubs are still scrubs. Dodge roll, heal do what it takes - its PvP. I can think of at least 2 class skills per class (maybe not sorc) and many abilities to deal with "omgwtf" damage.
MOAR QQ!
Much point to use other than bow right? all scrubs stacking shields, or they are noob DKs, or noob templars with blazing and the healing of noobs. Just because you use FOTM class, doesnt means others are scrubs, its you who are that.
And im not even using bow... lol
YOU WILL QQ if the game will be ballanced.0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm just curious about some examples of abilities that can be "spammed" for "OVER 1k damage" that are not critical hits.
As far as I'm aware, base damage that high is generally coming from castable (interruptable) abilities, stealth openers that can't be spammed, or Ultimates.
As you point out, you can't and he's talking rubbish. Anything out side of an continuous ultimate or a critical won't hit for over 1k damage.0