Guppet wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Auralia wrote: »

I wont use a staff or more than 2 pieces of light armour as a NB. If it means I can't do trials, so be it. Iam a night blade not a mage.

Cute. Especially since NightBlades have been mages since TES Arena.

So your trying to tell him he can't play it as DW/Bow? Now that is cute!!

They have an awful long way to go, to get it to truly be play as you want, but that should be their highest priority.

Also there are some very broad arch types that fit each class, those should be fully possible. I don't even care if you agree with the arch types, they are what a lot of people expect from the classes.

Dragon knight, is expected to be a beast of a tank or melee Dps 2 handed (fighter) Heavy armour

Sorcerer, is expected to be a ranged magic damage dealer using a staff (Mage) Light armour

Nightblade is expected to be melee Dps, dual wield/bow (Thief) medium armour

Templar is expected to be heavy armour healer, with one hander and shield (Cleric) heavy armour

Yes they are very stereo typed classes, but that's what stereo types are. Currently the Mage is viable. The other 3 RPG staple archetypes, need a lot of work.

It does not matter if you think a class should be a different way, those are the archetypes a lot of old RPG fans expect to be able to play successfully, at all levels, not just while levelling.

This isn't some random RPG game with some warriors, mages and rogues. This is an Elder Scrolls game.

And just a reminder, the class description for Nightblade in Oblivion is

Nightblade:
Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances.
Specialization: Magic
Skills: Acrobatics, Alteration, Athletics, Blade, Destruction, Light Armor, Restoration

Using destro/resto is playing NB true to the lore.

Edit: I'm not saying he can't play as dw/bow. I'm just saying that there is no shame in not doing so because you're playing a Nightblade (in the Elder Scrolls universe), not just some random thief in a random RPG.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Out of all the classes, the Nightblade is actually the best in terms of DPS on Stamina in Trials, and they're also the best DPS caster as well if they choose to bring it.

Either way, Whining about how your nightblade can't be this awesome stealther in trials is silly, Cause no one can currently, It is not a nightblade thing. That is simply a Stamina issue right now.

So how else are people supposed to give feeedback unless they do so on the forums?

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Here we go again with the selective highlights ignoring Acrobatics, Athletics & Blade - even Light Armour is moot since medium was not an option and leathers were considered light until ESO.

In fact all TES games have offered NB as a mixed class of using magic to help with stealth and a mix of blade and destruction magic for killing.

Also note that until this game magic did not need a silly piece of wood to achieve, one could cast a fireball while carrying a dagger.

So while those of us who like a blade accept your choice to use a stick perhaps do us the courtesy of returning the favour as both builds are equally lore worthy - it is just ESO devs that fail us all here.

I agree with your comment, actually. My intention wasn't to say that you should only play as a caster. I'm just saying that there should be no shame in playing caster NB because such is fully consistent with what a Nightblade is.

Moreover, my other point was that we shouldn't apply generic RPG archetypes to an Elder Scrolls game.

So I support the notion of all classes, all weapons. That is, I think dual wield should be viable even on DK and Templar.

Option 2 looks a lot easier to handle than Option 1, and that's what I would do. Option 1 looks more difficult to pull off correctly because dress/stick is intertwined with class skills.

Tabbycat wrote: »

There are basically two options to address this:

1. nerf dress/ stick so that it is on par with the other weapons and armors available.

2. buff the other weapons and armors so they are on par with stick/ dress.

Which is the better solution?

Buff all the things.

I understand that Magicka and skill in utilising it, is extremely dangerous, It makes sense, It's Magicka.

I also understand that skill, prowess and heroism born from Boethiah utilized in fighting in armour wielding melee weaponry, is also extremely dangerous.

The divide between damage inflicted should simply be more, refined and normalised. The recent change to medium and heavy armour is a great step in the right direction, shouldn't be much longer, Sithis willing, until there's not so much as a divide.

I don't care what others use and don't use though, I enjoy using all the weapon skills in this game, I'd never feel "shame", but each to their own.

Curious, does anyone else feel shame when they use a staff? If you do, why do you feel shame?

Guppet wrote: »

Armann wrote: »

Class is just the starting point, not the end destination, this is what they promised and delivered. Future content is going to drive that point home even more.

But they did not deliver it. If they, did you would see lots of weapon verity in trials.

That's kind of the whole point of the thread.

People want them to deliver on their promise.

The pic above, of a queue of staff users is the reality in this game right now.

The devs know it and it must annoy them just how skewed the plsyerbase is towards staffs and light armour. I know I would be mighty annoyed if people only use one of the options I had spent ages designing.

I suspect they are as frustrated as we are.

If they actually wanted to fixed it (and ultimately here I'm talking about the people running the game, not the devs as such), it would be very very easy.

Nerf Circle of Life into the ground, reduce the need for Impulse as the only decent AOE in the game (frankly I hate AOE gameplay and games that push it in anyway).

Staff problem goes away, then they just have to deal with the light armour issue.

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

There are basically two options to address this:

1. nerf dress/ stick so that it is on par with the other weapons and armors available.

2. buff the other weapons and armors so they are on par with stick/ dress.

Which is the better solution?

Option 3: The developers do whatever they want. I like how strong magic and staffs are.

Yey option 3 sounds like an awesome game, massively imbalanced with little point in spending any skill points in anything outside of light armour and a staff. SIGN ME UP!

Your game sounds like crap, it sucks.

Aeratus wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Auralia wrote: »

I wont use a staff or more than 2 pieces of light armour as a NB. If it means I can't do trials, so be it. Iam a night blade not a mage.

Cute. Especially since NightBlades have been mages since TES Arena.

So your trying to tell him he can't play it as DW/Bow? Now that is cute!!

They have an awful long way to go, to get it to truly be play as you want, but that should be their highest priority.

Also there are some very broad arch types that fit each class, those should be fully possible. I don't even care if you agree with the arch types, they are what a lot of people expect from the classes.

Dragon knight, is expected to be a beast of a tank or melee Dps 2 handed (fighter) Heavy armour

Sorcerer, is expected to be a ranged magic damage dealer using a staff (Mage) Light armour

Nightblade is expected to be melee Dps, dual wield/bow (Thief) medium armour

Templar is expected to be heavy armour healer, with one hander and shield (Cleric) heavy armour

Yes they are very stereo typed classes, but that's what stereo types are. Currently the Mage is viable. The other 3 RPG staple archetypes, need a lot of work.

It does not matter if you think a class should be a different way, those are the archetypes a lot of old RPG fans expect to be able to play successfully, at all levels, not just while levelling.

This isn't some random RPG game with some warriors, mages and rogues. This is an Elder Scrolls game.

And just a reminder, the class description for Nightblade in Oblivion is

Nightblade:
Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances.
Specialization: Magic
Skills: Acrobatics, Alteration, Athletics, Blade, Destruction, Light Armor, Restoration

Using destro/resto is playing NB true to the lore.

Edit: I'm not saying he can't play as dw/bow. I'm just saying that there is no shame in not doing so because you're playing a Nightblade (in the Elder Scrolls universe), not just some random thief in a random RPG.

Just to be clear, those archetypes I described are very generic archetypes that many people will expect to be able to play competitively. I have linked them to this games classes, only to show that each could be viewed that way.

Each of the archetypes I have described are staples from the very origin of RPG games. If these are not possible to build and be successful with in a game that proclaims play as you want, its always going to make a lot of players unhappy.

You need to bear in mind that ESO has quite a mature playerbase and many of us will have grown up playing D&D, so we have seen these archetypes repeated again and again in many many games, so when a game flatly refuses to let us play what may well be our favourite archetype, we are rightly annoyed.

They are making small tweaks to fix this, but they seem to be far too small and don't address many of the issue the players clearly see.

If you cant heal with a bow, why the heck should you be able to DPS with a resto staff? The right equipment, for the right role, that's what I want. Wanna tank?, equip heavy, not light. If they do that correctly, your class is just your flavour and you weapon and armour choice decides your role. I think that is what they intended all along.

Yeah I wanted to do trials but my DPS was lacking with my bow. So I took my 200+ skill points and spec'd into light armor staff and siphoning so I could compete. I wouldn't say that I hate that I have to have a spec specific towards trials only considering that I have my DW/Bow spec for PvP. It's just annoying and a huge gold synch to go into that 2 build setup and can say that I spent a lot of money doing so.

That being said I have seen a lot of NB's in PvP now using the DW/Bow setup so good on them. Now they just need to up the DPS for PvE content somehow without making them too OP in PvP (which they currently are with the Soul Tether shenanigans)

Aeratus wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Here we go again with the selective highlights ignoring Acrobatics, Athletics & Blade - even Light Armour is moot since medium was not an option and leathers were considered light until ESO.

In fact all TES games have offered NB as a mixed class of using magic to help with stealth and a mix of blade and destruction magic for killing.

Also note that until this game magic did not need a silly piece of wood to achieve, one could cast a fireball while carrying a dagger.

So while those of us who like a blade accept your choice to use a stick perhaps do us the courtesy of returning the favour as both builds are equally lore worthy - it is just ESO devs that fail us all here.

I agree with your comment, actually. My intention wasn't to say that you should only play as a caster. I'm just saying that there should be no shame in playing caster NB because such is fully consistent with what a Nightblade is.

Moreover, my other point was that we shouldn't apply generic RPG archetypes to an Elder Scrolls game.

So I support the notion of all classes, all weapons. That is, I think dual wield should be viable even on DK and Templar.

But their is 4 generic/archetype TES classes.
Mage (ward/robe absorb magical /magicka), Thief (light speed/dodge), Assassin (medium dexterity/block) and Fighter (heavy absorb physical /health).
Hence the associated guilds.

If each has a resource, your attribute points would let you focus your abilitie/class.
If you then trained in the guilds you could also enhance and gain associated skills too.

Alas that requires 4 resources ...but at least you can mix and match any hybrid or pure role

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Here we go again with the selective highlights ignoring Acrobatics, Athletics & Blade - even Light Armour is moot since medium was not an option and leathers were considered light until ESO.

In fact all TES games have offered NB as a mixed class of using magic to help with stealth and a mix of blade and destruction magic for killing.

Also note that until this game magic did not need a silly piece of wood to achieve, one could cast a fireball while carrying a dagger.

So while those of us who like a blade accept your choice to use a stick perhaps do us the courtesy of returning the favour as both builds are equally lore worthy - it is just ESO devs that fail us all here.

I agree with your comment, actually. My intention wasn't to say that you should only play as a caster. I'm just saying that there should be no shame in playing caster NB because such is fully consistent with what a Nightblade is.

Moreover, my other point was that we shouldn't apply generic RPG archetypes to an Elder Scrolls game.

So I support the notion of all classes, all weapons. That is, I think dual wield should be viable even on DK and Templar.

But their is 4 generic/archetype TES classes.
Mage (ward/robe absorb magical /magicka), Thief (light speed/dodge), Assassin (medium dexterity/block) and Fighter (heavy absorb physical /health).
Hence the associated guilds.

If each has a resource, your attribute points would let you focus your abilitie/class.
If you then trained in the guilds you could also enhance and gain associated skills too.

Alas that requires 4 resources ...but at least you can mix and match any hybrid or pure role

block for assassin? that makes no sense.

GRxKnight wrote: »

Yeah I wanted to do trials but my DPS was lacking with my bow. So I took my 200+ skill points and spec'd into light armor staff and siphoning so I could compete. I wouldn't say that I hate that I have to have a spec specific towards trials only considering that I have my DW/Bow spec for PvP. It's just annoying and a huge gold synch to go into that 2 build setup and can say that I spent a lot of money doing so.

That being said I have seen a lot of NB's in PvP now using the DW/Bow setup so good on them. Now they just need to up the DPS for PvE content somehow without making them too OP in PvP (which they currently are with the Soul Tether shenanigans)

---

"...only considering that I have my DW/Bow spec for PvP."

Righto. But our friends who main a PvE character and want to have a main stam build such as others can have a MAIN MAGICKA build, do not get that 'relief' - they are playing primarily on one character doing the thing this game advertised which is 'everyone can be anything all the time' *joshes -- and they can't enjoy it. That is why so many are agreeing of all the changes, adjustments that could be made, why not at LEAST up/raise the stamina regen? AT LEAST.

If you were not looking at your Trials build as just an alternate hotbar you utilize so you can be effective to your group in PvE Trials but you primarily run your DW/Bow spec a lot of your playtime if you mostly PvP --- how would you be feeling?

TESO PvP all builds=fun.
TESO PvE one build=most fun.

Anastasia wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

First few runs in Trials for me.

After a few runs and after reading many NB guides - I had to drop bow / dw and go for pure spell / resto staff output, just to get that high dps.

Sad really.

---

Bunch of b.s. - glad I can at least wield my daggers with panache in Cyr and have FUN, else I'd have to become bitter.

Oh.

Hey Mr BS this is about Trials not Cyro.

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

It is sad. Trials were poorly designed with no thought for diversity.

Likewise, though, I refuse. I just won't ever participate in Trials until they get someone with a clue to (re)design the dungeon mechanics.

its not trials, its the balance between mage and physical combats.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

First few runs in Trials for me.

After a few runs and after reading many NB guides - I had to drop bow / dw and go for pure spell / resto staff output, just to get that high dps.

Sad really.

---

Bunch of b.s. - glad I can at least wield my daggers with panache in Cyr and have FUN, else I'd have to become bitter.

Oh.

Hey Mr BS this is about Trials not Cyro.

---

My clarification was meant. I have been in all other mmo's (since 1999) save one super fun FPS one, a PvE main, and specifically enjoy group dungeon running and raiding the most.

Coming into TESO with an open mind to try PvP was a good choice for me, as I feel PvE has been diluted and has little relevancy.

So, we are sorta on the same page. I've just elected to look for fun somewhere rather than give up utterly on this MMO, giving seasoning a little more time for PvE. Not as hopeful as before but at least I have progression to focus on now.