Guild Heraldry for small guilds.

Phantax · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

This "I pay for the game I should get everything" attitude drives me nuts. This is not a valid argument.

There are requirements you must meet for many things in the game. You don't get everything for 15$ unless you also work for it and meet the requirements.

You might have a valid argument that lesser guilds should get tabards, but saying it is because you pay a sub is not valid.

Actually it 'is' a very valid argument !
Prior to launch when Zenimax were pushing this game to everybody they made 2 very bold statements...

•"Play the game the way you want"
•"Everybody should have access to 100% of the games content"

People like you can be a pedantic as you like but... the OP is unable to get 100% of the games features (in this case guild items) if he and his guild mates continue to play the game the way they want !

It's like in this case I pointed out -

Phantax wrote: »

A little while ago there was a thread made by some guy who just wanted to make a small guild for himself and his family. There were four of them, himself, the wife and two kids. But because there were not 10 members of this guild they were unable to get certain guild functions !
Now to be fair, this guy had obviously brought 4 copies of the game and was paying 4 subs and yet they still couldn't get access to stuff they were paying for ! That's hardly right, or fair now is it ?

This guy may very well have purchased the game on Zenimax's two promises only to find out later that he could not in fact play the way he (and his family) wanted and that he cannot get access to 100% content unless he/they play the game in a manner they do not wish to !

It's quite a glaring mistake on Zenimax's behalf to assume everybody wants to be part of a large guild. And as usual they seem unwilling to comment on the issue !

Iorail · August 2014

This has gone far enough and apparently none of you even bother to test or research anything before coming here to ask for things to be handle to them at to cost or effort, so I'll end this once and for all with a pro-tip for all of you [snip] people:

-Create a guild (or use your 4 man friend group)
-Recruit in zone until you have 10 people (lock up all permissions for the strangers)
-Create your precious Tabard and buy it from the temp store (you can buy it even with 10 members)
-Once you have done this, kick the extra people (you will keep the tabard even if you drop below 10, you just can't make changes to it anymore).
-Profit!

See, 6 pages [snip] and all you people had to do was search the forums or log into the PTS and test it....

There you go I solve your issue, can we now all move one to the new FTOM complaint?

[edited for baiting]

Alphashado · August 2014

Canstaht wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Canstaht wrote: »

Iorail wrote: »

Canstaht wrote: »

Yes, ESO exists to allow people who love the franchise to team up and play the game together. A group, consists of Four people. If said Four people want to form a Guild, and pvp/do dungeons together. Then, They are a group, and a guild and by all means, they are teaming up to play the game together. So all of those boxes are checked. So why can't small guilds also have a tabard, just because the guild is smaller, doesn't mean it is any less a guild, or any less a group of people, playing the game together.

The fact there is adventure zone content, and dungeons for Four players, at all, shows they want to cater to small team dynamics. If pretty much all the content I want to do, only requires me to have a close knit guild of 4-6 people, then, why should we not have a tabard? sure we might grow, we might get more members, eventually and over time. But to say that a small guild doesn't get a tabard seems to be an oversight to me.

Using your own argument, then people with 4 man "guilds" not only should have access to tabards (intended for 10+ guilds) but also should be able to 4 man Trials, just because they are part of the game.....

A four man "guild" is not a guild and instead of caving in to cater to this small group of people that believe they are entitle to everything just because the pay for the game sub, how about they seal the coffin by simply making it so that you actually need 10 people to even form a guild?

See my argument is as valid as yours. A group of people is not a guild, it's a group, just because you can form a guild with 1 or 4, doesn't entitle you to have all the guild perks. The perks come with numbers and only until you, and the hand full of people arguing to the contrary, come to realize this, there is no argument.

Today they give tabards to 1 man guilds, then tomorrow, access to the bank to 4 man guilds, then next week, store access to 10 man guilds, so tell me, when is this going to stop? Never, because people will never stop asking for more when they don't even want to do the basics steps to get what they ask without even putting up the effort. You and other want Tabards? Join a guild that have them or make your own guild and recruit 10+ people, it's really that simple....

We're not talking about banks and stores. This is about tabards, it's not about free levels, it's not about free gear, it's about tabards. Just tabards. Joining a bigger guild, is not a solution to wanting My guild, to be able to have a tabard. It provides no remedy to the topic. Why must you lambast small guilds so ? simply for wanting a tabard, I have been met with so much outcry for what? Why does it take so much away from the game, for a fellow player to have a simple want fulfilled? This is supposedly a community, of gamers really when it all comes down to it. We may not all like eachother and we may not all get along. Everybody has their own reasons for playing and their own goals in game. But to just staunchly tread all over someone for wanting something So basic, and So simple. That effects not one iota the gameplay experience for you, or anyone else. But tremendously impacts the experience for others. It is something that would make some of us happy. Small guilds are people too, we're players, just the same as everyone else.

While there are some incentives that larger guilds should enjoy, and they do, banks and stores. Tabards, in my opinion should not be among those limit restricted incentives.

You are entitled to your opinion and if you disagree, great. But don't tell me my guild isn't a guild, and don't say there is no argument or that there is no merit to any of this. There is an argument, I've presented one.

Last week it was about guild banks. Once (if) sub 10 member guilds get tabards, then it will once again be about getting guild banks under with under 10 members. When (if) guilds with under 10 members get banks, then it will once again be about getting a guild store.

I actually do sympathize with small family guilds that want a tabard, but the standard is set to 10. There are options. You could simply hook up with another small family, or can't you just ask a few people to join your guild in order to get it up to 10 with the understanding that you just need their help in order to create a tabard? Once the tabard is created, they could then feel free to leave the guild. I saw this with WoW guilds endlessly.

"Looking for a few people to join our guild in order for us to create a guild tabard. You can feel free to stay or leave after the tabard is created"

You might be surprised how many people would be willing to help. And you might even make a few friends along the way.

So, because people will perpetually want things. Nothing should ever change? I didn't ask for tabards for one man guilds. And whether people will want banks or not, in the future and ask for it has little to do with the tabard. Just because people want something, doesn't mean they will get it. And I can assure you, I wouldn't bother trying to champion a bank option for small guilds because just trying to get a tabard has been fraught with such derision I'm genuinely baffled.

If I could invite a handful more, and then we could make our tabard, and if they left, keep it. Then I suppose that wouldn't be such a horrible solution. But if it's like banks, if the number falls below 10, then you lose it. It's not a solution at all. I honestly don't know if that's the case with tabards, please correct me on that if you do.

I am not opposed to making friends in game, and expanding the guild and having more members. I am opposed to having to mass recruit, to receive a feature that seems both simple and basic. With no impact on game play or advantages over any other guild/player for having it.

I would point out, too that there isn't a great deal of good fellowship here on the forum so far as I've experienced. Perhaps in game people are nicer, and more open to helping one another but once they get on forum it's akin to road rage. I'm not sure I don't post on forums much and I haven't had a compelling reason to make a post until now. I have issue with the tabard restriction, I'm voicing my case. Zenimax will hear it, or not.

A forum is a poor place to gauge a community. By it's very nature a forum is a platform for debate. So most of the discussions you see here or on any forum is very opinionated. For example I will very seldom discuss issues like this in guild chat because they lead to debate. 90% of the people you meet in the game will be friendly and helpful.

Take a political debate for example. Both candidates will have a heated debate over opinionated issues while on stage. Then shake hands and civil and polite to each other afterwards.

You can easily find and build wonderful friendships in game where vocal restraint is more common than a forum.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

Phantax wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

This "I pay for the game I should get everything" attitude drives me nuts. This is not a valid argument.

There are requirements you must meet for many things in the game. You don't get everything for 15$ unless you also work for it and meet the requirements.

You might have a valid argument that lesser guilds should get tabards, but saying it is because you pay a sub is not valid.

Actually it 'is' a very valid argument !
Prior to launch when Zenimax were pushing this game to everybody they made 2 very bold statements...

•"Play the game the way you want"
•"Everybody should have access to 100% of the games content"

People like you can be a pedantic as you like but... the OP is unable to get 100% of the games features (in this case guild items) if he and his guild mates continue to play the game the way they want !

It's like in this case I pointed out -

Phantax wrote: »

A little while ago there was a thread made by some guy who just wanted to make a small guild for himself and his family. There were four of them, himself, the wife and two kids. But because there were not 10 members of this guild they were unable to get certain guild functions !
Now to be fair, this guy had obviously brought 4 copies of the game and was paying 4 subs and yet they still couldn't get access to stuff they were paying for ! That's hardly right, or fair now is it ?

This guy may very well have purchased the game on Zenimax's two promises only to find out later that he could not in fact play the way he (and his family) wanted and that he cannot get access to 100% content unless he/they play the game in a manner they do not wish to !

It's quite a glaring mistake on Zenimax's behalf to assume everybody wants to be part of a large guild. And as usual they seem unwilling to comment on the issue !

This gets repeated over and over again anytime someone doesn't get what they want.

What you are asking for is all the rewards without the effort.

You can play the game as only someone who harvests plants, but you don't get access to vet content, or get to level up from it. If Zenimax ever specifically said you can play the game how you want AND still get access to all content (together mind you) it was a faulty statement. The game doesn't work like that, so there's no reason to keep holding on to that belief.

Canstaht · August 2014

Iorail wrote: »

This has gone far enough and apparently none of you even bother to test or research anything before coming here to ask for things to be handle to them at to cost or effort, so I'll end this once and for all with a pro-tip for all of you [snip] people:

-Create a guild (or use your 4 man friend group)
-Recruit in zone until you have 10 people (lock up all permissions for the strangers)
-Create your precious Tabard and buy it from the temp store (you can buy it even with 10 members)
-Once you have done this, kick the extra people (you will keep the tabard even if you drop below 10, you just can't make changes to it anymore).
-Profit!

See, 6 pages [snip] and all you people had to do was search the forums or log into the PTS and test it....

There you go I solve your issue, can we now all move one to the new FTOM complaint?

It's not nonsense, it's a legitimate complaint. You don't have to agree with it. And, for all that you've said, with everyone so against it, basically you're saying as it stands now with recruiting absolute strangers, a one man guild can have a tabard. But allowing convenient access to it to a smaller guilds is right out of the question?

[edited to remove quote]

Phantax · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

This "I pay for the game I should get everything" attitude drives me nuts. This is not a valid argument.

There are requirements you must meet for many things in the game. You don't get everything for 15$ unless you also work for it and meet the requirements.

You might have a valid argument that lesser guilds should get tabards, but saying it is because you pay a sub is not valid.

Actually it 'is' a very valid argument !
Prior to launch when Zenimax were pushing this game to everybody they made 2 very bold statements...

•"Play the game the way you want"
•"Everybody should have access to 100% of the games content"

People like you can be a pedantic as you like but... the OP is unable to get 100% of the games features (in this case guild items) if he and his guild mates continue to play the game the way they want !

It's like in this case I pointed out -

Phantax wrote: »

A little while ago there was a thread made by some guy who just wanted to make a small guild for himself and his family. There were four of them, himself, the wife and two kids. But because there were not 10 members of this guild they were unable to get certain guild functions !
Now to be fair, this guy had obviously brought 4 copies of the game and was paying 4 subs and yet they still couldn't get access to stuff they were paying for ! That's hardly right, or fair now is it ?

This guy may very well have purchased the game on Zenimax's two promises only to find out later that he could not in fact play the way he (and his family) wanted and that he cannot get access to 100% content unless he/they play the game in a manner they do not wish to !

It's quite a glaring mistake on Zenimax's behalf to assume everybody wants to be part of a large guild. And as usual they seem unwilling to comment on the issue !

This gets repeated over and over again anytime someone doesn't get what they want.

What you are asking for is all the rewards without the effort.

You can play the game as only someone who harvests plants, but you don't get access to vet content, or get to level up from it. If Zenimax ever specifically said you can play the game how you want AND still get access to all content (together mind you) it was a faulty statement. The game doesn't work like that, so there's no reason to keep holding on to that belief.

[snip] does that have to do with creating a guild and having a tabard? The OP is not asking for anything to be handed them or given to them on a platter. He/she wishes to start a guild with some friends, play the game and enjoy items the game has to offer. (which according to Zenimax everybody has equal rights to !

They should not be forced into a situation of 'join a big guild or go without' !

[edited for profanity bypass]

Canstaht · August 2014

Alphashado wrote: »

Canstaht wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Canstaht wrote: »

Iorail wrote: »

Canstaht wrote: »

Yes, ESO exists to allow people who love the franchise to team up and play the game together. A group, consists of Four people. If said Four people want to form a Guild, and pvp/do dungeons together. Then, They are a group, and a guild and by all means, they are teaming up to play the game together. So all of those boxes are checked. So why can't small guilds also have a tabard, just because the guild is smaller, doesn't mean it is any less a guild, or any less a group of people, playing the game together.

The fact there is adventure zone content, and dungeons for Four players, at all, shows they want to cater to small team dynamics. If pretty much all the content I want to do, only requires me to have a close knit guild of 4-6 people, then, why should we not have a tabard? sure we might grow, we might get more members, eventually and over time. But to say that a small guild doesn't get a tabard seems to be an oversight to me.

Using your own argument, then people with 4 man "guilds" not only should have access to tabards (intended for 10+ guilds) but also should be able to 4 man Trials, just because they are part of the game.....

A four man "guild" is not a guild and instead of caving in to cater to this small group of people that believe they are entitle to everything just because the pay for the game sub, how about they seal the coffin by simply making it so that you actually need 10 people to even form a guild?

See my argument is as valid as yours. A group of people is not a guild, it's a group, just because you can form a guild with 1 or 4, doesn't entitle you to have all the guild perks. The perks come with numbers and only until you, and the hand full of people arguing to the contrary, come to realize this, there is no argument.

Today they give tabards to 1 man guilds, then tomorrow, access to the bank to 4 man guilds, then next week, store access to 10 man guilds, so tell me, when is this going to stop? Never, because people will never stop asking for more when they don't even want to do the basics steps to get what they ask without even putting up the effort. You and other want Tabards? Join a guild that have them or make your own guild and recruit 10+ people, it's really that simple....

We're not talking about banks and stores. This is about tabards, it's not about free levels, it's not about free gear, it's about tabards. Just tabards. Joining a bigger guild, is not a solution to wanting My guild, to be able to have a tabard. It provides no remedy to the topic. Why must you lambast small guilds so ? simply for wanting a tabard, I have been met with so much outcry for what? Why does it take so much away from the game, for a fellow player to have a simple want fulfilled? This is supposedly a community, of gamers really when it all comes down to it. We may not all like eachother and we may not all get along. Everybody has their own reasons for playing and their own goals in game. But to just staunchly tread all over someone for wanting something So basic, and So simple. That effects not one iota the gameplay experience for you, or anyone else. But tremendously impacts the experience for others. It is something that would make some of us happy. Small guilds are people too, we're players, just the same as everyone else.

While there are some incentives that larger guilds should enjoy, and they do, banks and stores. Tabards, in my opinion should not be among those limit restricted incentives.

You are entitled to your opinion and if you disagree, great. But don't tell me my guild isn't a guild, and don't say there is no argument or that there is no merit to any of this. There is an argument, I've presented one.

Last week it was about guild banks. Once (if) sub 10 member guilds get tabards, then it will once again be about getting guild banks under with under 10 members. When (if) guilds with under 10 members get banks, then it will once again be about getting a guild store.

I actually do sympathize with small family guilds that want a tabard, but the standard is set to 10. There are options. You could simply hook up with another small family, or can't you just ask a few people to join your guild in order to get it up to 10 with the understanding that you just need their help in order to create a tabard? Once the tabard is created, they could then feel free to leave the guild. I saw this with WoW guilds endlessly.

"Looking for a few people to join our guild in order for us to create a guild tabard. You can feel free to stay or leave after the tabard is created"

You might be surprised how many people would be willing to help. And you might even make a few friends along the way.

So, because people will perpetually want things. Nothing should ever change? I didn't ask for tabards for one man guilds. And whether people will want banks or not, in the future and ask for it has little to do with the tabard. Just because people want something, doesn't mean they will get it. And I can assure you, I wouldn't bother trying to champion a bank option for small guilds because just trying to get a tabard has been fraught with such derision I'm genuinely baffled.

If I could invite a handful more, and then we could make our tabard, and if they left, keep it. Then I suppose that wouldn't be such a horrible solution. But if it's like banks, if the number falls below 10, then you lose it. It's not a solution at all. I honestly don't know if that's the case with tabards, please correct me on that if you do.

I am not opposed to making friends in game, and expanding the guild and having more members. I am opposed to having to mass recruit, to receive a feature that seems both simple and basic. With no impact on game play or advantages over any other guild/player for having it.

I would point out, too that there isn't a great deal of good fellowship here on the forum so far as I've experienced. Perhaps in game people are nicer, and more open to helping one another but once they get on forum it's akin to road rage. I'm not sure I don't post on forums much and I haven't had a compelling reason to make a post until now. I have issue with the tabard restriction, I'm voicing my case. Zenimax will hear it, or not.

A forum is a poor place to gauge a community. By it's very nature a forum is a platform for debate. So most of the discussions you see here or on any forum is very opinionated. For example I will very seldom discuss issues like this in guild chat because they lead to debate. 90% of the people you meet in the game will be friendly and helpful.

Take a political debate for example. Both candidates will have a heated debate over opinionated issues while on stage. Then shake hands and civil and polite to each other afterwards.

You can easily find and build wonderful friendships in game where vocal restraint is more common than a forum.

That's a fair point, I agree people are usually more inclined to help out in game. And while it's true discussion leads to opinionated debate, I wish people would be a bit more open minded and considerate instead of just trying to shut something down simply because it's not something you care for.

I perfectly understand if I was asking for something, that by no rights I should be allowed access to (ie, vet content, legends, insert free handout) but I'm asking for something that doesn't harm or infringe upon anyone else, their game play or play style. It doesn't afford me any advantages, it is as pointed out before, purely cosmetic.

If I could mass invite people, make a tabard, buy it and then remove all the people who helped for it, and run around with a tabard as it stands now? why not just remove the limit altogether. I'm advocating for smaller guilds which I perceive as getting shafted here. I appreciate not everyone shares the opinion, but it doesn't mean it's not valid. My opinion being valid and other peoples opinions being valid, need not be mutually exclusive.

People should be able to pose opinions and feedback without receiving so much vehement derision, too. For that matter.

Malpherian · August 2014

Stratti wrote: »

Canstaht wrote: »

Dear Zenimax, why do you punish small guilds? No guild bank for guilds under 10 members, alright. I don't agree with it, but I'm over it. However, to deny a small guild the ability to make and have a heraldry and tabard, is pretty much against the core principle of freedom to play the way you want that Elder scrolls is known for. I petition for the member requirement for guild heraldry be removed. I see no possible reason to prevent smaller guilds from having it, it doesn't effect game play mechanics or abuse anything.

I would like an explanation for this, truly.

A guild is meant to be a large organisation. What you describe is a small kinship group mascarading as a guild . There needs to be some limit to accommodating players to ensure the integrity of the guild system

Apparently.. you have no clue what the definition of a guild is in the English language, let me help you:

Guild
"gild"
~noun~

"an association of people for mutual aid or the pursuit of a common goal."
synonyms: association, society, union, league, organization, company, cooperative, fellowship, club, order, lodge, brotherhood, fraternity, sisterhood, sorority

Hmm this means that whether there are 2 people or 500, they are still A GUILD. No where does it say that a guild is a "Large" organization of people. Or state anything that it is meant to be other then specifically what is defined. which is:

"an association of people for mutual aid or the pursuit of a common goal."

Your opinoon is noted, but unfortunately, invalid. And since we now know that by definition which there is no argument to or against all size of groups which claim to be a guild are such are also ENTITLED to the perks of such.

KariTR · August 2014

ZOS definition:

Guild
"gild"
~noun~

A society requiring a minimum of 10 members in order to access perks to facilitate the function of that society.

Canstaht · August 2014

KariTR wrote: »

ZOS definition:

Guild
"gild"
~noun~

A society requiring a minimum of 10 members in order to access perks to facilitate the function of that society.

I don't see an admin tag on your post, so you don't have the authority to define things as a representative of ZOS.

KariTR · August 2014

Canstaht, I am defining what is IN game as deigned by ZOS.

Why should I need to be representative of ZOS to state the obvious?

Malpherian · August 2014

KariTR wrote: »

Canstaht, I am defining what is IN game as deigned by ZOS.

Why should I need to be representative of ZOS to state the obvious?

Just because it's designed that way by ZOS, does not mean it is correct, or not flawed and needing improvement, as should be obvious about a great many things concerning ZOS's decisions on this game.

I think we can all agree that ZOS is not what most would call "competent" with design functions and business decisions concerning ESO.... Currently at any rate.

Granted, they are getting better, but things like basic guild functions for small guilds, such as a bank and tabard should be obvious. Especially since every other MMO offers them to 1 man guilds.

Canstaht · August 2014

KariTR wrote: »

Canstaht, I am defining what is IN game as deigned by ZOS.

Why should I need to be representative of ZOS to state the obvious?

You are pointing out the current state of the game, which is why this post was created in the first place. It is not an official statement by Zenimax, specifically. It was simply decided to be a good idea, and that's what they went with I'm pretty sure. Regardless of what is or isn't in the game, the word has a strict definition. Be as pithy as you like, it won't mean anything different just because you want it to.

Iorail · August 2014

No one is taking/locking tabards from you or small guilds, stop beating the dead horse already, if you both still can't see this then there is nothing anyone, including ZOS, can do for you. [snip] the solution to your complaint has been posted multiple time.

Canstaht wrote: »

It is not an official statement by Zenimax, specifically. It was simply decided to be a good idea, and that's what they went with I'm pretty sure.

Wrong, from the FAQ:

Guild Heraldy

Why am I not able to create a Heraldry for my guild?
Updated 08/04/2014 11:56 AM Published 07/22/2014 02:06 PM

The Guild Heraldry feature is available to 10+ member guilds. Also, you must be the Guildmaster in order to create a tabard.

Create Guild Heraldy

Who can create a guild’s heraldry?
Updated 08/04/2014 11:54 AM Published 07/22/2014 02:03 PM

The Guildmaster is the only person who can create a guild's heraldry, and in order for a heraldry to be made, the guild has to have 10 or more members.

That looks pretty official to me, you need 10 people to have a tabard and that's the end of the story....

[edited for baiting]

Canstaht · August 2014

Iorail wrote: »

No one is taking/locking tabards from you or small guilds, stop beating the dead horse already, if you both still can't see this then there is nothing anyone, including ZOS, can do for you. [snip] and the solution to your complaint has been posted multiple time.

Canstaht wrote: »

It is not an official statement by Zenimax, specifically. It was simply decided to be a good idea, and that's what they went with I'm pretty sure.

Wrong, from the FAQ:

Guild Heraldy

Why am I not able to create a Heraldry for my guild?
Updated 08/04/2014 11:56 AM Published 07/22/2014 02:06 PM

The Guild Heraldry feature is available to 10+ member guilds. Also, you must be the Guildmaster in order to create a tabard.

Create Guild Heraldy

Who can create a guild’s heraldry?
Updated 08/04/2014 11:54 AM Published 07/22/2014 02:03 PM

The Guildmaster is the only person who can create a guild's heraldry, and in order for a heraldry to be made, the guild has to have 10 or more members.

That looks pretty official to me, you need 10 people to have a tabard and that's the end of the story....

There is always room to change and influence things. So, the story has far from ended as far as I am concerned. I'm not taking anything away from You, by posting my opinion and voicing my thoughts on how the guild system could be positively changed. Yet, you seem to relish in trying to prevent others from having something simple and basic.

Not sure what the cause for such bitter contention is about and as far as I can tell, being negative and belittling others for their opinion seems to practically be a sport on the forums. Seems as if it's against some moral imperative for anyone to have a different opinion from you lot and if they do you have to stamp it into the ground. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean you have to continually try and beat down the little guy for speaking out about something that matters to them. You've voiced your opinions, you are not in favor. Well, I am still going to push for it. Why? Because there's a legitimate argument for it to me. Others have also voiced their opinion in favor of it, so it's not as if I'm the only one who wants it either.

My posts have been reasonable, and so has my complaint. If anyone is being juvenile it's you, with your utter disregard for others that don't fit neatly into your bizarre comfort zone.

You voiced your thoughts, let me voice mine in peace. Or be positive, constructive and on point. This black and white attitude is unnecessary. There's plenty of room for a little grey, compromise or other solutions. The horse is still alive and well.

[edited to remove quote]

Varicite · August 2014

Navuri wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

You have no guild perks outside of a reserved name.

How is that 'opinion' and not fact?

And now we're on the subject: why is it that you can't stand small guilds with tabards?

Don't confuse someone not taking a strong stance in support of something to mean they are against it - or in your words "can't stand it".

As it is, small guilds can have tabards. 10 members is minute when you consider that the upper limit is 500. Don't act as if you have all been barred from content because ZOS has made the condition to have a tabard prohibitive, when it is easily achievable with minimal effort.

Read: We don't want 10 people. We have 8. That's it.

That's totally fine.

But if you had 2 more people, you could have a tabard.

Nobody cares what the dictionary defines a guild as. In ESO, ZOS has defined an "active" guild as a guild that has 10 or more players.

I understand that you'd like a tabard to represent yourselves in your close-knit group of friends; I've been there as well. Unfortunately, that's not the way it works in the game.

Nobody is denying you anything; if you were to go to get your driver's license, and they say "Sure, just give us 2 forms of ID and you can take the test" and you tell them "I only have 1 form of ID and refuse to bring you any more", they aren't denying you a license.

There are simply requirements for some things in the game, and if you refuse to meet them, well... that's kinda on you.

radiostar · August 2014

We can ignore w/e "slippery slope" arguments are bothering people. Z will stop the slide by their game rules. No need to worry.

As far as being a group, does grouping last perpetually like guilds? If not, then building a small guild is reasonable if you know you're going to run with the same players all the time--just like a guild.

Can you paint/dye your clothes the same as a group? Yes, if you all have the same acheeves unlocked. But what if you don't want to ruin your clothes (make them bound to your account)? Why not just wear a tabard with your guild's emblem and colors?

So why not just allow 4 players and up (or *GASP* 1 player and up) to be a guild for that purpose?

BTW, on the guild bank. Even with 10 people opening the bank, the GM can lock it down and have his personal way large bank, right? Is there a game rule that says it has to be open and shared by everyone? Or at least a limited number of members?

So if 4 or 5, or 8, players want to spend their time and coin to create a guild, then a tabard, and wear it while they play, what's the harm? I say zero. Unless you're mad they get a guild chat too?

KariTR · August 2014

It isn't a case of being black or white. Some of us understand the need for minimum limits and maximum caps and 10 is pretty blooming generous given we play on a megaserver.

Someone up thread made the suggestion that as you are such small groups with no access to tabards, why not match your armour using the dye system. I personally think this is a great idea and would look much better than a tabard anyway.

Did you even respond to it? Nope. You're being completely intractable, when you have already been given so much for so little.

Malpherian · August 2014

KariTR wrote: »

It isn't a case of being black or white. Some of us understand the need for minimum limits and maximum caps and 10 is pretty blooming generous given we play on a megaserver.

Someone up thread made the suggestion that as you are such small groups with no access to tabards, why not match your armour using the dye system. I personally think this is a great idea and would look much better than a tabard anyway.

Did you even respond to it? Nope. You're being completely intractable, when you have already been given so much for so little.

Actually no it isnt generous at all, Both other MMOs which have megaservers (and there are only 2 Eve Online and Perpetuum) Neither of which put ANY restriction on their guild functions. No recruitment restrictions, No guild inventpry/Bank restrictions, No restrictions period. If you want to amek a 1 man guild and pay for it, More power to you.

The point is that restrictions at all concerning guilds based on Membership numbers is not only pointless it's just flat out a slap in the face to smaller communities.

It's why again. NO OTHER MMO DOES THIS.

Insignia91 · August 2014

I would like to make my own guild so I can create the tabard how I want. I don't want to spend hours spamming zone chat asking if any guild has the design I want.

Enodoc · August 2014

Malpherian wrote: »

[...]
If you want to amek a 1 man guild and pay for it, More power to you.
[...]
It's why again. NO OTHER MMO DOES THIS.

That's a good point actually. In every other MMO that I know of, you have to pay to create a guild. You can do so for free in ESO, meaning the restrictions have to be implemented elsewhere (eg by number of members).

KariTR · August 2014

Enodoc wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

[...]
If you want to amek a 1 man guild and pay for it, More power to you.
[...]
It's why again. NO OTHER MMO DOES THIS.

That's a good point actually. In every other MMO that I know of, you have to pay to create a guild. You can do so for free in ESO, meaning the restrictions have to be implemented elsewhere (eg by number of members).

And it's only 10 people!

The OP and others want the recognition of contributing to the in game community, while refusing to be part of that community. The more I think of it, the more galling it is really. Why should their 'guild' be recognised or respected, when they refuse to recognise or respect the community they play among.

Malpherian · August 2014

Enodoc wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

[...]
If you want to amek a 1 man guild and pay for it, More power to you.
[...]
It's why again. NO OTHER MMO DOES THIS.

That's a good point actually. In every other MMO that I know of, you have to pay to create a guild. You can do so for free in ESO, meaning the restrictions have to be implemented elsewhere (eg by number of members).

That's an excellent counter point, but in my opinion I think most of us would rather pay the gold and have a fully functional one from the get go then be able to make a gimped useless one for free.

Malpherian · August 2014

KariTR wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

[...]
If you want to amek a 1 man guild and pay for it, More power to you.
[...]
It's why again. NO OTHER MMO DOES THIS.

That's a good point actually. In every other MMO that I know of, you have to pay to create a guild. You can do so for free in ESO, meaning the restrictions have to be implemented elsewhere (eg by number of members).

And it's only 10 people!

The OP and others want the recognition of contributing to the in game community, while refusing to be part of that community. The more I think of it, the more galling it is really. Why should their 'guild' be recognised or respected, when they refuse to recognise or respect the community they play among.

Respect, and Recognition should be given because of your deeds, Not because you can recruit every noob that joins the game by spamming invites.

KariTR · August 2014

Malpherian wrote: »

KariTR wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

[...]
If you want to amek a 1 man guild and pay for it, More power to you.
[...]
It's why again. NO OTHER MMO DOES THIS.

That's a good point actually. In every other MMO that I know of, you have to pay to create a guild. You can do so for free in ESO, meaning the restrictions have to be implemented elsewhere (eg by number of members).

And it's only 10 people!

The OP and others want the recognition of contributing to the in game community, while refusing to be part of that community. The more I think of it, the more galling it is really. Why should their 'guild' be recognised or respected, when they refuse to recognise or respect the community they play among.

Respect, and Recognition should be given because of your deeds, Not because you can recruit every noob that joins the game by spamming invites.

I recruit in Vet zones, I'll have you know :snootyface:, but at least I give people a chance, unlike sub-10 guilds who refuse to be part of the player community.

reggielee · August 2014

dont see why not lower the number of members needed for tabaldry. there are alot of guilds of family members that dont quite reach 10. Its a cosmetic option and has no bearing on gameplay.

on the other hand, if ESO is going to make it a reward for having larger guilds then they need to increase the number to make it mean something, like 100.

Canstaht · August 2014

radiostar wrote: »

We can ignore w/e "slippery slope" arguments are bothering people. Z will stop the slide by their game rules. No need to worry.

As far as being a group, does grouping last perpetually like guilds? If not, then building a small guild is reasonable if you know you're going to run with the same players all the time--just like a guild.

Can you paint/dye your clothes the same as a group? Yes, if you all have the same acheeves unlocked. But what if you don't want to ruin your clothes (make them bound to your account)? Why not just wear a tabard with your guild's emblem and colors?

So why not just allow 4 players and up (or *GASP* 1 player and up) to be a guild for that purpose?

BTW, on the guild bank. Even with 10 people opening the bank, the GM can lock it down and have his personal way large bank, right? Is there a game rule that says it has to be open and shared by everyone? Or at least a limited number of members?

So if 4 or 5, or 8, players want to spend their time and coin to create a guild, then a tabard, and wear it while they play, what's the harm? I say zero. Unless you're mad they get a guild chat too?

Thank you for your post, pretty much what I'm trying to point out. It detracts nothing, harms no one. So why not?

Iorail · August 2014

reggielee wrote: »

dont see why not lower the number of members needed for tabaldry. there are alot of guilds of family members that dont quite reach 10. Its a cosmetic option and has no bearing on gameplay.

on the other hand, if ESO is going to make it a reward for having larger guilds then they need to increase the number to make it mean something, like 100.

Why would ZOS have to take more time to change something that don't need change? I have said many times and ignored all those times that you can recruit up to 10 players, create the tabard and then kick the extra people and still keep the tabard, but do anyone listen? No, they want everything handed to them without doing nothing....

Iorail wrote: »

This has gone far enough and apparently none of you even bother to test or research anything before coming here to ask for things to be handle to them at to cost or effort, so I'll end this once and for all with a pro-tip for all of you [snip] people:

-Create a guild (or use your 4 man friend group)
-Recruit in zone until you have 10 people (lock up all permissions for the strangers)
-Create your precious Tabard and buy it from the temp store (you can buy it even with 10 members)
-Once you have done this, kick the extra people (you will keep the tabard even if you drop below 10, you just can't make changes to it anymore).
-Profit!

See, 6 pages [snip] and all you people had to do was search the forums or log into the PTS and test it....

There you go I solve your issue, can we now all move one to the new FTOM complaint?

Besides, the thread is been run by 2-3 individuals that refuse to listen to anything anyone else has to say for the sake of wanting, that is all.

[edited to remove quote]

Canstaht · August 2014

KariTR wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

[...]
If you want to amek a 1 man guild and pay for it, More power to you.
[...]
It's why again. NO OTHER MMO DOES THIS.

That's a good point actually. In every other MMO that I know of, you have to pay to create a guild. You can do so for free in ESO, meaning the restrictions have to be implemented elsewhere (eg by number of members).

And it's only 10 people!

The OP and others want the recognition of contributing to the in game community, while refusing to be part of that community. The more I think of it, the more galling it is really. Why should their 'guild' be recognised or respected, when they refuse to recognise or respect the community they play among.

You decided that on your own. You can contribute among the in game community, specifically in AvA, without being in a larger guild. Just because I'm not in a large guild doesn't mean I can't play a role and help out. Or that I won't participate in group activities with others, I just want to be able to do all of that, while being in my own guild.

Kartalin · August 2014

I haven't read all of the comments so I apologize if this has been mentioned already.

The issue with giving perks to guilds of less than 10 members seems to be tied to the guild bank that becomes available at that point. 500 storage spaces is a lot.

What if the membership requirements for guild banks and tabard were decreased to say 5, and that guild didn't start off with the full 500 slots? Maybe something like this:
5 members -> 50 bank slots
6 members -> 100 bank slots
7 members -> 150 bank slots
8 members -> 200 bank slots
9 members -> 250 bank slots
10 members -> 500 bank slots and then cap it at that point

One issue that would arise of course would be if a guild with, for example, 8 members had 200 items in the guild bank, and someone leaves the guild. They'd be 50 items over the limit. I guess at that point the game could "sell" the 50 cheapest items and deposit any gold generated by the sale into the guild bank. This would seriously complicate this approach.

There are other issues with this suggestion, certainly, as to whether this needlessly complicates the matter and of course Zeni's willingness to try something else.

Personally I'm satisfied with the current setup. I'm in a guild of 20 or so members that has it's own tabard. It cost 5k gold to design the tabard and then it can be purchased for 2k.

Does anyone know if the tabard costs are a sliding scale? If not, then another suggestion could be to extend the tabard option to smaller guilds but at an increased cost, perhaps, while at the same time decreasing the cost for larger guilds. A simple piecewise linear function could be encoded to the time of the creation of the tabard depending on the number of members at which point the cost of the tabard for members is locked in as well. I call it piecewise because at some point there will have to be a hard minimum cost in that scenario.

Just some things to consider.