d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

Nocturnalis wrote: »

d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

LOL!!! OMMFG!!! You are pathetic! Forbes and BusinessWire and CNN and Statistica and Venturebeat are all writing "PR fluff pieces" for Raptr!

RIGHT!!!

Actually if you have read the BusinessWire "article" it is a press release piece with the contacts for the Raptr PR department at the bottom of the page. If you read the wording, it reads like an advert. These other articles feature interviews with the Raptr CEO, which are basically ads for the company.

Yes, Forbes, CNN, BusinessWire all feature PR pieces often written by guest writers or listed as a "featured article". These are equivalent to "game previews" featured in gaming journalism. Which are just hype pieces designed to advertise the product with very little critical analysis.

d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

Go away, child, the adults want to talk.

More ad hominem...

d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

The industry experts disagree with you. Either you are wrong, or they are wrong.

Believe as you like--maybe you are smarter than all of them combined.

And maybe not.

More ad hominem... Who started this thread? In this forum? And asked what do the users thought happened to ESO? And now is not happy with our answers because we are not experts?

Not being an expert in a certain field does not preclude someone from making valid points on the subject.

lordrichter wrote: »

At best, what can be said about the Raptr numbers is that it reflects the interests of the Raptr users.

Exactly.

LOL! Now you are claiming that Forbes and all the other industry leaders are in the business of publishing press releases for companies and thus everything you disagree with is a lie!

ROFLMAO!!!

Seriously, go back to talking talk to your garden gnome... you have gone from ignorant to downright silly.

rofl right because CNN is, for example, such a haven of objective reporting. Especially lately, when I sometimes think I am watching E-entertainment news, or when they do pieces in conjunction with their "sister network" HLN which is laso objective and totally not National Enquirer TV.

And ALL the others? You claim the entire industry disagrees with you and is wrong, and Raptr has somehow hoodwinked publishers like the LA Times and Forbes, and you are also claiming to be sane?

Bad news, the first two are mutually exclusive with the last one.

the problem here is that you refuse to believe that any of these outlets do soft pr pieces. Which they very much do. It's not even bad journalism, not every interview with Starbucks is a hard hitting look at the numbers for example. Sometimes they just do s highlight on them.

CNN is my example because my father watches it relentlessly when I am over and it makes me rage. I swear to god how the hell did ashley banfield or jake tapper ever find work? How are they lead anchors for any station at all?

Also you can't seem to go one post without a personal attack, so it really gives me the impression you are covering for having no clue as to what you are talking about.

the burden of proof rests on the person making the claim, anyway, as I often tell the faithful when they insist I am going to hell.

d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

Oh, optional dig at everyone who claims that ESO is not losing players at a rate faster than the Titanic lost passengers*, have any of you yet come up with data or a single metric to contradict all the ones I have provided?

Nope?

Well, better luck next time.

*Actually, the Titanic only lost 70% of its passengers, so it might have actually fared better.

Seriously?!? Even after multiple people point out that it's actually *impossible* to have meaningful metrics available this soon after a new MMO launch, you're claiming your argument is valid because nobody has come up with a valid metric?

Fine. Prove to us that *your* metrics are valid, first. I recommend you start your proof by researching similar metrics from other A-list subscription-based MMOs which offered a 1 month free trial. Take those metrics at the 3 month point after the original game launch as part of your argument, and show that those 3 month metrics bear any resemblance at all to, say, 1 year metrics for the same MMOs, and *perhaps* I'll grant that you have a valid point then.

Until you can prove any correlation, you're just blowing smoke. So far all you have is a very small and rather suspect set of data points from a single site which, by nature, is non-representative of the MMO audience. Using statistics like that to form any sort of conclusion is actually *worse* than a random guess at this point.

all a mmorpg needs to be successful is at least one sever populated enough to provide a quality and intended gameplay experience for its players....and to be financially profitable enough to continue development.

anyone who tells you otherwise has other motives.

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

lol just look at the comment section of that article, a guys asks where wildstar is on the list, the auther 'forgot'about it, tells you how accurate his list is, he prob also forgot ESO
and secondly, the author is called rob(bie) williams....

Perhaps you could give an exact quote you are referring to?

No, of course not...

well if you would look futher than the length of your nose you would have seen the link of the article the OP refers to posted further down on the first page

but since you asked so nicely
techgage.com/news/world-of-warcraft-remains-1-revenue-generating-mmo-topping-1b-annually/

you have a nice life now

It doesn't say what you incorrectly said it did, which is why I challenged you to give an exact quote.

You didn't, because it isn't in there.

He was discussing the fact that he had not expressly mentioned it in his text. However, if you had looked at the chart which he included in the story, you would see that Wildstar is there, mentioned, in the NUMBER SIX POSITION!!! Thus, you can't call his list inaccurate.

Let me translate it for you, when someone presents you a list of ten things, and then says, "Look, Pepsi is in the number 4 position" you can't then say, "HA! HIS LIST SUCKS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MENTION COKE!!!" when Coke is on the list in the number 2 position!!!


[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

He was discussing the fact that he had not expressly mentioned it in his text.

Yes, that's true. As I mentioned above, I was just jabbing a collegue who happens to love WildStar. I didn't mention it in the post because it simply didn't come to mind; it's been a game slightly off my radar. Earlier in this thread I was called biased because I hoped WildStar would succeed, and then I get called out because I seemed to ignore it. That's a little ironic. I need to be clearer in these posts I write, and be a little more careful in the comments, since those can be misconstrued.

Still a great discussion here overall, but I hate that some of it has been caused by two separate articles I wrote that tackle MMOs from different perspectives.

If I ever need to do a story on ESO, I know where to come :P


[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

stevenbennett_ESO wrote: »

d.crosgrove_ESO wrote: »

Oh, optional dig at everyone who claims that ESO is not losing players at a rate faster than the Titanic lost passengers*, have any of you yet come up with data or a single metric to contradict all the ones I have provided?

Nope?

Well, better luck next time.

*Actually, the Titanic only lost 70% of its passengers, so it might have actually fared better.

Seriously?!? Even after multiple people point out that it's actually *impossible* to have meaningful metrics available this soon after a new MMO launch, you're claiming your argument is valid because nobody has come up with a valid metric?

Fine. Prove to us that *your* metrics are valid, first. I recommend you start your proof by researching similar metrics from other A-list subscription-based MMOs which offered a 1 month free trial. Take those metrics at the 3 month point after the original game launch as part of your argument, and show that those 3 month metrics bear any resemblance at all to, say, 1 year metrics for the same MMOs, and *perhaps* I'll grant that you have a valid point then.

Until you can prove any correlation, you're just blowing smoke. So far all you have is a very small and rather suspect set of data points from a single site which, by nature, is non-representative of the MMO audience. Using statistics like that to form any sort of conclusion is actually *worse* than a random guess at this point.

Steam Metascore: Final Fantasy XIV: 83. Rift: 84. Eve: 88. Everquest 2: 83. ESO: 71. Only 3 MMORPGs with Metadata scores lower than ESO: Forsaken World: 69, Raiderz: 64, Spiral Knights 64.

Metacritic score fan score: 5.1/10

TESO’s meteoric plummet in the hours played rankings:

http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-may-2014-watch-dogs-makes-its-debut-dark-souls-ii-climbs-the-charts/

http://techgage.com/news/raptr-shows-us-the-top-20-pc-games-played-during-june/

Industry praise for Raptr:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/13/raptr-fong-thresh-tech-personal-cx_af_0915raptr.html

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110927006094/en/Raptr-Report-Reveals-Zynga-Games-Rival-Core

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/08/17/finishing.videogames.snow/

http://www.statista.com/statistics/300284/longest-average-video-game-session-during-launch-month-raptr/

http://venturebeat.com/2012/07/12/game-rewards-are-leading-to-new-business-models-for-raptr-and-kiip/

http://venturebeat.com/2010/07/20/with-more-than-1m-users-raptr-formally-launches-social-network-for-gamers/

http://blog.raptr.com/press/

http://blog.raptr.com/category/stats/

http://mashable.com/2008/09/03/raptr-video-game-community/

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-03-11-raptr-now-adding-1-5-million-users-per-month

http://www.privco.com/private-company/raptr-inc

http://notsovirtual.eu/tools-resources/games-industry-stats-resources/

http://icrontic.com/article/raptr-aims-to-leverage-your-gaming-clout

http://www.scoop.it/t/insert-coin-gaming/p/4017482197/2014/03/12/raptr-now-adding-1-5-million-users-per-month

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/10/the-sims-social-siphoning-neighbors-from-zynga-raptr-report.html

http://www.g4tv.com/articles/67970/Raptrs-Dennis-Thresh-Fong-Interview/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07/20/massively-talks-with-raptrs-dennis-fong

If you have anything better, I’d love to see it. If not, looks like you’ve got some homework to do.

Cyberdown wrote: »

all a mmorpg needs to be successful is at least one sever populated enough to provide a quality and intended gameplay experience for its players....and to be financially profitable enough to continue development.

anyone who tells you otherwise has other motives.

That is true. But it is not even close to what Zenimax wanted to achieve. They were actually expressing a belief that this would be a wildly popular game with long staying power. Instead, it has most people spending the $50.00, playing for one month, and then bailing out.