Nerf Bat Swarm

Tintinabula · August 2014

it hits for more than 100 but someone mentioned it ticking for 900..best ive seen is like 300

Jaxom · August 2014

Tintinabula wrote: »

it hits for more than 100 but someone mentioned it ticking for 900..best ive seen is like 300

Yeah I agree, definitly doesnt tick for 900. People exaggerate to make their point. In PvE, in full Magicka gear, Spell Rings, the whole nine yards, I've gotten it to tick for 410 before with it critting the whole time. In PvP, I probably do 150 a tick. The 900 they are seeing, is probably the entire duration of 6s. 150dps x 6s just happens to be 900.

chris.m.tannehill_ESO · August 2014

Op stop being a baby and learn to play.

GaldorP · August 2014

A full duration of Batswarm from a good vampire hits for 2k damage (that's with the character hit being a VR 12 in full legendary gear, Spell Resistance over Soft Cap and 400 Critical Resistance from Impenetrable). Also, the vampire player doesn't just stand there but will spam AoE skills like Impulse or Sap Essence at the same time. A single dodge roll won't get you out of the radius of bat swarm if the vampire is right next to you and if the invisible vampire happens to be going in the same direction you do there is no way for you to escape from the bat swarm unless you are sorcerer or can use a gap closer to jump to another enemy. Also, there are often small delays in PvP and chances are that by the time you see a batswarm in the middle of a battle, you've already been hit by it twice (vampires can sneak close to a group of players with increased sneak speed or use a gap closer or bolt escape to teleport into a group of enemy players so you often don't see them coming if they are good).
Honestly, the damage of Bat Swarm by itself is ok, but it's the added bonus from the morph that is too strong. Invisibility means complete immunity to all non AoE attacks. That's too good in combination with such a strong AoE damage that moves with the player.

Sure, it's a learn to play issue. I can beat vampires in 1v1. When I see a vampire approaching a group of players I can try to save them and get the vampire down with Silver Bolts and hope people in the group will react in time and attack the vampire too/spread out. But still...

... when a non vampire player sees a group of 10 enemies close by from stealth it's "oh sh.., I better leave now and hope they won't find me".
When a vampire sees the same group from stealth it's "oh, nice, free AP. The more the better".
That seems a bit silly to me.

Cody · August 2014

I think players should be targetable by ALL attacks while using it, but it needs no nerfing of any sort. just roll out of it.

zScars · August 2014

my bats hit for 400 per tick

AllPlayAndNoWork · August 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

It dosnt need nerfing, it's should have it's cost put to 250 like a lot of the other ults

It does, but with stage 4 vampirism it gets lowered.

And with stage 4 vampirism come virtually no healing and don't forget the fire

Garion wrote: »

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

...
Personally, I think it would be best to take out vamp and werewolf abilities completely from PvP. PvE I couldn't care less.

I agree, Werewolf is far too powerful in PvP and should be removed and limited to PvE.
This would inhibit the extreme amount of Werewolfs currently running around in Cyrodiil.
They definitely need to be taken out of PvP to prevent their OP Werewolf powers from being OP.

Werewolf is a stamina based build and is still weak compared to magika builds. Silver bolts will put both on their respective asses. There are plenty of ways to beat them. Neither are too powerful at all.

LOL nerf this nerf that, learn to play better IMO and stop whining when you get your ass handed to you.

@AllPlayAndNoWork I think @Samadhi was being sarcastic

LOL... I hope so........

Samadhi · August 2014

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

...
Personally, I think it would be best to take out vamp and werewolf abilities completely from PvP. PvE I couldn't care less.

I agree, Werewolf is far too powerful in PvP and should be removed and limited to PvE.
This would inhibit the extreme amount of Werewolfs currently running around in Cyrodiil.
They definitely need to be taken out of PvP to prevent their OP Werewolf powers from being OP.

Werewolf is a stamina based build and is still weak compared to magika builds. Silver bolts will put both on their respective asses. There are plenty of ways to beat them. Neither are too powerful at all.

LOL nerf this nerf that, learn to play better IMO and stop whining when you get your ass handed to you.

I wouldn't waste my time slotting Silver Bolts to deal with a werewolf; they can't even break out of a regular CC to begin with.
Maxed out werewolf was great fun for almost a full day though. I was able to endlessly question my sanity for slotting the highest cost Ultimate available that actually made me more likely to die if I ever saved up enough points to use it.

Now, as a maxed out vampire instead, I can spam bats as much as I like while not having to worry, because the negatives to being at stage 4 vampirism are so trivial I never have to care. I find it rather absurd that there are some vampires who try to gripe about them as though they are any sort of issue.

griszax · August 2014

"mommy I can't figure out how to fight vampires ... nerf it plz"

On a serious note there are many things a SINGLE player can do to negate all the damage from a batswarming player on a whole group. Starting from healing springs that cost almost nothing to heal group of players, fragmented shield that will kill vampire really fast if he try to aoe a group of ppl. Fears, roots to even run from the ultimate.

@Samadhi‌ calling 50 % more fire damage from every source a trivial is ABSURD.

No I'm not a vampire , but I have been for a long time. Being vampire does bring some nice advantages but they come with really big disadvantages. If they nerf the ultimate then I'm pretty sure it will be just like with the werewolfs - finding one will be a miracle

Prospero_ESO · August 2014

griszax wrote: »

"mommy I can't figure out how to fight vampires ... nerf it plz"

"mommy i don´t have a clue what i am talking about so i make a troll post........"

griszax wrote: »

No I'm not a vampire , but I have been for a long time. Being vampire does bring some nice advantages but they come with really big disadvantages.

yeahh disadvantages, lol . what do you mean ? i hope not the weakness to fire, because that´s a *** joke

Maulkin · August 2014

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

griszax wrote: »

"mommy I can't figure out how to fight vampires ... nerf it plz"

"mommy i don´t have a clue what i am talking about so i make a troll post........"

griszax wrote: »

No I'm not a vampire , but I have been for a long time. Being vampire does bring some nice advantages but they come with really big disadvantages.

yeahh disadvantages, lol . what do you mean ? i hope not the weakness to fire, because that´s a *** joke

You're right, it's a joke. Taking +33% dmg from fire even when you're hard-capped on fire res is completely useless. I mean what's the point of fire intolerance if there's no fire damage in Cyrodiil, right?

I propose they add a couple of classes who do mostly fire damage with their attacks. Let's call them Dragon Knights and Templars, that sounds good. Maybe add some siege equipment that does fire damage as well, like flaming oil and fire catapults and fire ballistas. That would be a bit more balanced, wouldn't it?

Tell you what, since vamps have weakness to silver according to lore how about we also add something like a crossbow firing silver bolts, that do some solid hard cc and also give a chance to one-shot them if you hit them right in the 'ol ticker, hhm?

Thinking about it, that not enough. Let's add a couple of passives to help too. We'll call one Slayer (as in vampire Slayer) and you get 9% more weapon and spell dmg when attacking vamps. Maybe throw in another perk if you manage to kill one since they are so pesky. How about a passive called "Banish the Wicked" giving you 9 ultimate as a bonus if you manage to kill one?

Who's with me?

Enkil · August 2014

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

A full duration of Batswarm from a good vampire hits for 2k damage (that's with the character hit being a VR 12 in full legendary gear, Spell Resistance over Soft Cap and 400 Critical Resistance from Impenetrable). Also, the vampire player doesn't just stand there but will spam AoE skills like Impulse or Sap Essence at the same time.

A single dodge roll won't get you out of the radius of bat swarm if the vampire is right next to you and if the invisible vampire happens to be going in the same direction you do there is no way for you to escape from the bat swarm unless you are sorcerer or can use a gap closer to jump to another enemy. Also, there are often small delays in PvP and chances are that by the time you see a batswarm in the middle of a battle, you've already been hit by it twice (vampires can sneak close to a group of players with increased sneak speed or use a gap closer or bolt escape to teleport into a group of enemy players so you often don't see them coming if they are good).

Honestly, the damage of Bat Swarm by itself is ok, but it's the added bonus from the morph that is too strong. Invisibility means complete immunity to all non AoE attacks. That's too good in combination with such a strong AoE damage that moves with the player.

Sure, it's a learn to play issue. I can beat vampires in 1v1. When I see a vampire approaching a group of players I can try to save them and get the vampire down with Silver Bolts and hope people in the group will react in time and attack the vampire too/spread out. But still...

... when a non vampire player sees a group of 10 enemies close by from stealth it's "oh sh.., I better leave now and hope they won't find me".
When a vampire sees the same group from stealth it's "oh, nice, free AP. The more the better".
That seems a bit silly to me.

^well said...

IMO, the cloud morph and its invisibility component is the problem. There are counters to vampires but a cloud swarm is not targetable. A Templar (anti-vampire) can fire his sun fire aoe morph or vampire's bane or silver bolts directly at this swarm and it does nothing.... that makes no sense.

It needs be addressed and balanced. At minimum, the invisibility/un-targetability component need to break on use of any other skills.

Domander · August 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

griszax wrote: »

"mommy I can't figure out how to fight vampires ... nerf it plz"

"mommy i don´t have a clue what i am talking about so i make a troll post........"

griszax wrote: »

No I'm not a vampire , but I have been for a long time. Being vampire does bring some nice advantages but they come with really big disadvantages.

yeahh disadvantages, lol . what do you mean ? i hope not the weakness to fire, because that´s a *** joke

You're right, it's a joke. Taking +33% dmg from fire even when you're hard-capped on fire res is completely useless. I mean what's the point of fire intolerance if there's no fire damage in Cyrodiil, right?

I propose they add a couple of classes who do mostly fire damage with their attacks. Let's call them Dragon Knights and Templars, that sounds good. Maybe add some siege equipment that does fire damage as well, like flaming oil and fire catapults and fire ballistas. That would be a bit more balanced, wouldn't it?

Tell you what, since vamps have weakness to silver according to lore how about we also add something like a crossbow firing silver bolts, that do some solid hard cc and also give a chance to one-shot them if you hit them right in the 'ol ticker, hhm?

Thinking about it, that not enough. Let's add a couple of passives to help too. We'll call one Slayer (as in vampire Slayer) and you get 9% more weapon and spell dmg when attacking vamps. Maybe throw in another perk if you manage to kill one since they are so pesky. How about a passive called "Banish the Wicked" giving you 9 ultimate as a bonus if you manage to kill one?

Who's with me?

^

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO · August 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Out of curiosity, you do know that dot based abilities aren't separated on the death screen right?

You are aware that game was/is lag fest in large battle? When you hear bats, you already took dmg from several ticks and you did not even know it... I used to roll out the second I heard bats, yet I took nearly 1k already...

Still aoe with which you can run and deal dmg is dumb.

It is killing any tes combat feeling or strategy.

chimneyswift_ESO · August 2014

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, nerf it... it's ridiculous (No constructive comments here, there's no need to explain the obvious).

Personally, I think it would be best to take out vamp and werewolf abilities completely from PvP. PvE I couldn't care less.

Take them out completely from PvP?! HAHA You've lost your mind.

Xorpion · August 2014

if i ever got killed by a player controlled werewolf in cyrodiil and wasnt afk, i would respawn at home camp and wayshrine out and never tell anyone about it, ya they suck that bad atm. and picking one skill out of the hundreds of ways to die in pvp to complain about is just straight up asinine. either learn to pvp or stfu, enough said.

Grimmspat · August 2014

Since the patch, I have seen a difference when bats are used on me. Had multiple occasions with logged hits of 700 and a few 1400. I run with 600 impen as well.

It's gotten so frustrating I finally bit the bullet and went Vamp last night. Working on the skill line as it's too much of a game changer especially in large scale fights.

Homm · August 2014

I'm a sorc and I hate this thread. Why? Cause sorc doesn't have any useful offensive ulti. Sure, negate magic.. ye.. I will use it on 2-3 people getting close to me, seems reasonable. Or we will spam it every 2 seconds with a group that has 5+ sorcs in it.. Nope.
Nerf bat swarm? Nerf the damn class ultis of other classes. Nerf magma armor, and soul tether, not bat swarm.

griszax · August 2014

Grimmspat wrote: »

Since the patch, I have seen a difference when bats are used on me. Had multiple occasions with logged hits of 700 and a few 1400. I run with 600 impen as well.

It's gotten so frustrating I finally bit the bullet and went Vamp last night. Working on the skill line as it's too much of a game changer especially in large scale fights.

Do You even realise that death recap shows ALL the damage of channeled /dot when You die ? Batswarm normally can tick for like +/- 300 damage per second which means You stood for quite long to get 1400 damage. Don't forget there is a new bug around that makes Your damage sky rocket ( there is vid on youtube of a guy critting 3-7 k with skills ).

Come back after You realise that alone batswarm isn't so OP as You thought it really is

Thechemicals · August 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

You think Bats is annoying..Wait until you fight Corrosive Armor next patch if they don't nerf it again on PTS

Notice i said again...bloody thing was doing 600ish a tic, but now its down to 400ish.

and now....its doing 1000-1500 dmg

Homm · August 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

You think Bats is annoying..Wait until you fight Corrosive Armor next patch if they don't nerf it again on PTS

Notice i said again...bloody thing was doing 600ish a tic, but now its down to 400ish.

and now....its doing 1000-1500 dmg

Seen over 2k few times. Seems legit.

Baphomet · August 2014

With the right build, bat swarm is stronger than standard + talons ever was. It's in critical need of balancing, @ZOS.

For starters, reduce the radius to 8 m like all other AoEs. No one should be able to have a 10m mobile AoE that can deal ~2000 damage and heal ~2000 damage over the cause of only 5 seconds.

Homm · August 2014

Baphomet wrote: »

With the right build, bat swarm is stronger than standard + talons ever was. It's in critical need of balancing, @ZOS.

For starters, reduce the radius to 8 m like all other AoEs. No one should be able to have a 10m mobile AoE that can deal ~2000 damage and heal ~2000 damage over the cause of only 5 seconds.

No. That post is bad and I don't agree. First balance the classes. If crybabies win on the forum it will hit sorcs and templars mostly, but DK's will be happy their gap between them and other classes only grows bigger.

Honfold · August 2014

Guys, it doesn't take a whole skill bar to counter a vamp sorc. Just put silver shards on your bar. If you see bats or mist, just spam them.

Homm · August 2014

Honfold wrote: »

Guys, it doesn't take a whole skill bar to counter a vamp sorc. Just put silver shards on your bar. If you see bats or mist, just spam them.

No way, you can't force lazy asses like OP or all the ranters here to have to counter other player skills! They will shout NERF NERF NERF till their build and tactics are the only viable and reasonable ones, and then they will open a thread "Why all noobs are using the same skills!!!!"

WraithAzraiel · August 2014

BETTER IDEA

In Cyrodiil you get NO SKILLS

you get a rock and a stick and siege weaponry

Even playing field, everybody gets a trophy, we don't keep score! Just like they did when you guys were in little league!
Then at the end we all tell each other how special and unique and okay everyone is and how you're perfect the way you are and don't have to ever progress!
And be pinko Commies together!

Or you can embrace the suck, rub some dirt on it and drive on.

Baphomet · August 2014

@Homm‌

No. That post is bad and I don't agree.

Is that a vampire or someone ignorant speaking?

You can crusade your point of view but the numbers don't lie.

griszax · August 2014

Baphomet wrote: »

With the right build, bat swarm is stronger than standard + talons ever was. It's in critical need of balancing, @ZOS.

For starters, reduce the radius to 8 m like all other AoEs. No one should be able to have a 10m mobile AoE that can deal ~2000 damage and heal ~2000 damage over the cause of only 5 seconds.

You do know that devouring swarm ( healing morph) is the worse one and almost noone use it ?:/ If You want to cry for nerf at least know what to cry for. Also it's 6 seconds for whole damage not 5 .

Go check magma armor. Ability that does +/- 300 damage/s that last for almost 11 s and caps ur damage income ( its bugged i know), and thats without any morph

Don't forget that batswarm only brings raw damage which is easy to counter. There are ultimates with much better utility.

It's getting silly that there are multiple forum threads about noobs trying to nerf that ultimate. I don't mind it getting nerfed because I'm over with ap farming ... but the truth is that You are still gonna get owned by those ap farmers just with other ultimates

There are plenty of AoE ultimates that would take place of batswarm.

Maulkin · August 2014

Baphomet wrote: »

@Homm‌

No. That post is bad and I don't agree.

Is that a vampire or someone ignorant speaking?

You can crusade your point of view but the numbers don't lie.

Which numbers do you have to quote which don't lie?

Homm · August 2014

Baphomet wrote: »

@Homm‌

No. That post is bad and I don't agree.

Is that a vampire or someone ignorant speaking?

You can crusade your point of view but the numbers don't lie.

You should learn to play, and your problem with bat swarms will go away. Also, your numbers are only correct if you have a weak guy standing in place and not defending.
1st - clouding swarm makes you invisible, but doesn't heal. You can't cc the guy, but you can aoe him, and all classes can easily tank the damage or run away if aoe is not an option.
2nd - devouring swarm heals you, yes. So why the hell won't you cc the guy? Put him on the floor, and if you are tough enough finish the job, if not - step back.

As a sorc vamp I have never been able to kill a good DK/Temp with this. DK usually killed me (I know, this class is perfectly ok and magma armor isn't crazy) and temp just tanked/healed for 5 sec and was perfectly ok.

I understand it would be so easy for you to just order a nerf for every skill you don't use but annoys you, but sorry, no candies for you.