Sometimes these troll posts are hard to resist...this is a semi rhetorical half sarcastic question, but I wanted to know-are you a proffesionalsoftware developer, or ever dabbled in any kind of amatuer coding? It sounds snotty, but thats not my intention. I see these posts, and I wonder if theyre made by super genius programmers that have never been up all night scanning thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of lines of code again and again and again to find some interaction that causes a domino chain of sometimes unpredictable errors to show up. its not always an issue of competence, bugs happen.

Using the domino analogy, try to imagine setting up, like, a thousand chains of millions of dominoes, that fill up your entire town. Theyre supposed to fall and interact with eachother in a way that will display an animated moziac of like..I dunno...the Opening theme from futurama when viewed from the sky, in laterally moving frames. How could anyone possibly *** that up?
Its not a perfect metaphor, but I would imagine working on an mmo would probably be kinda like that. I dont think its realistic to expect there to not be bugs, but they Should be accountable for them

Im going to school for CS, so im probly kinda oversensitive to these kind of posts. also, Im pretty sure that if theres a hell, theres a whole plane where you're chained to a desk, forced to spend eternity debugging source code. In fact, I heard it was such successfully sanity peeling torture, that theyre converting that ring of hell where you're being eaten alive by giant flesh burrowing insect larvae while being forced to watch your significant other cheating on you to more desolate chambers of debugging.

Anyway. Its only been a day. Cut them some slack, dammit.

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm paying a sub for this game, I expect it work.

I get it. I pay for alot of things that I expect to work. But they dont. My toaster oven caught on fire. My refridgerator is concerningly loud. The air conditioner has failed at least 3 times this summer. Dont have enough time to list all the car problems ive had. And ive never played a video game in my life that didnt have some slight bug in it, and im not going to. The more complicated a system is, the more potential there is for error, and mmo's are at the top in regards to complexity in a video game.

I dunno what my point is...dont manage your expectations, and experience recurring disappointment, I guess.

You mean to tell me, that zenimax can't fix the game simply by waving a magic wand at mega server? *gasps*

Royalroacho wrote: »

Sometimes these troll posts are hard to resist...this is a semi rhetorical half sarcastic question, but I wanted to know-are you a proffesionalsoftware developer, or ever dabbled in any kind of amatuer coding? It sounds snotty, but thats not my intention. I see these posts, and I wonder if theyre made by super genius programmers that have never been up all night scanning thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of lines of code again and again and again to find some interaction that causes a domino chain of sometimes unpredictable errors to show up. its not always an issue of competence, bugs happen.

Using the domino analogy, try to imagine setting up, like, a thousand chains of millions of dominoes, that fill up your entire town. Theyre supposed to fall and interact with eachother in a way that will display an animated moziac of like..I dunno...the Opening theme from futurama when viewed from the sky, in laterally moving frames. How could anyone possibly *** that up?
Its not a perfect metaphor, but I would imagine working on an mmo would probably be kinda like that. I dont think its realistic to expect there to not be bugs, but they Should be accountable for them

Im going to school for CS, so im probly kinda oversensitive to these kind of posts. also, Im pretty sure that if theres a hell, theres a whole plane where you're chained to a desk, forced to spend eternity debugging source code. In fact, I heard it was such successfully sanity peeling torture, that theyre converting that ring of hell where you're being eaten alive by giant flesh burrowing insect larvae while being forced to watch your significant other cheating on you to more desolate chambers of debugging.

Anyway. Its only been a day. Cut them some slack, dammit.

The PTS server is for testing, not the live server. They should test the final build there for at least 1 week before they actually put it out. When basic things like animations while riding with some costumes on are glitched, you know they *** up and did ZERO testing before releasing the patch.

Royalroacho wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm paying a sub for this game, I expect it work.

I get it. I pay for alot of things that I expect to work. But they dont. My toaster oven caught on fire. My refridgerator is concerningly loud. The air conditioner has failed at least 3 times this summer. Dont have enough time to list all the car problems ive had. And ive never played a video game in my life that didnt have some slight bug in it, and im not going to. The more complicated a system is, the more potential there is for error, and mmo's are at the top in regards to complexity in a video game.

I dunno what my point is...dont manage your expectations, and experience recurring disappointment, I guess.

The refrigerator in my house works just fine. The air conditioner is soundless and working beautifully. My car functions correctly.

I paid a premium for all these things, just like I pay a premium for this game. Just like any other expensive, high-end product, I expect it to function as it is intended to. If you're satisfied with buying *** products and having them break down regularly, that's your problem.

Royalroacho wrote: »

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Royalroacho wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm paying a sub for this game, I expect it work.

I get it. I pay for alot of things that I expect to work. But they dont. My toaster oven caught on fire. My refridgerator is concerningly loud. The air conditioner has failed at least 3 times this summer. Dont have enough time to list all the car problems ive had. And ive never played a video game in my life that didnt have some slight bug in it, and im not going to. The more complicated a system is, the more potential there is for error, and mmo's are at the top in regards to complexity in a video game.

I dunno what my point is...dont manage your expectations, and experience recurring disappointment, I guess.

The refrigerator in my house works just fine. The air conditioner is soundless and working beautifully. My car functions correctly.

I paid a premium for all these things, just like I pay a premium for this game. Just like any other expensive, high-end product, I expect it to function as it is intended to. If you're satisfied with buying *** products and having them break down regularly, that's your problem.

Lol and you seem so very well adjusted and pleasant, congrats

I am normally quite pleasant. I get mad when a company releases a broken product and continues to charge for it while they patch and fix every bug (a process that has taken them months). That's why sometimes I sound like a *** on these forums.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Royalroacho wrote: »

Sometimes these troll posts are hard to resist...this is a semi rhetorical half sarcastic question, but I wanted to know-are you a proffesionalsoftware developer, or ever dabbled in any kind of amatuer coding? It sounds snotty, but thats not my intention. I see these posts, and I wonder if theyre made by super genius programmers that have never been up all night scanning thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of lines of code again and again and again to find some interaction that causes a domino chain of sometimes unpredictable errors to show up. its not always an issue of competence, bugs happen.

Using the domino analogy, try to imagine setting up, like, a thousand chains of millions of dominoes, that fill up your entire town. Theyre supposed to fall and interact with eachother in a way that will display an animated moziac of like..I dunno...the Opening theme from futurama when viewed from the sky, in laterally moving frames. How could anyone possibly *** that up?
Its not a perfect metaphor, but I would imagine working on an mmo would probably be kinda like that. I dont think its realistic to expect there to not be bugs, but they Should be accountable for them

Im going to school for CS, so im probly kinda oversensitive to these kind of posts. also, Im pretty sure that if theres a hell, theres a whole plane where you're chained to a desk, forced to spend eternity debugging source code. In fact, I heard it was such successfully sanity peeling torture, that theyre converting that ring of hell where you're being eaten alive by giant flesh burrowing insect larvae while being forced to watch your significant other cheating on you to more desolate chambers of debugging.

Anyway. Its only been a day. Cut them some slack, dammit.

The PTS server is for testing, not the live server. They should test the final build there for at least 1 week before they actually put it out. When basic things like animations while riding with some costumes on are glitched, you know they *** up and did ZERO testing before releasing the patch.

Although I do not like bugs in games either, I have a question. How many people play on the PTS consistently? It can not be that many to test " as Royal put it" thousands of thousands of thousands of code without missing some.

I am still here, playing the game, patiently dodging the bugs, glitches and imbalances and quite enjoying myself for the most part. No plan on quitting for the near future. However, from a software development perspective, the code for this game appears to be a rushed, badly designed and badly written mess that only barely works.

I am not an armchair coder. I have been programming professionally for three decades, and I feel confident saying this: it is not normal for a software product to have this many problems after release.

There are serious issues with every part of the code: the graphics engine, the network code both at the server and client side, the thread balancing, the memory management, the database backend, the user interface, the combat mechanics, the quest scripting, the error handling, even the loot tables and the items themselves. The developers have a terrible code management which introduces and re-introduces bugs with every patch. They take way too many shortcuts with internal quality assurance and testing, and it takes them a long time to hunt down and fix serious, game breaking bugs.

TL;DR: ESO game good. ESO code bad.

Royalroacho wrote: »

Sometimes these troll posts are hard to resist...this is a semi rhetorical half sarcastic question, but I wanted to know-are you a proffesionalsoftware developer, or ever dabbled in any kind of amatuer coding? It sounds snotty, but thats not my intention. I see these posts, and I wonder if theyre made by super genius programmers that have never been up all night scanning thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of lines of code again and again and again to find some interaction that causes a domino chain of sometimes unpredictable errors to show up. its not always an issue of competence, bugs happen.

Using the domino analogy, try to imagine setting up, like, a thousand chains of millions of dominoes, that fill up your entire town. Theyre supposed to fall and interact with eachother in a way that will display an animated moziac of like..I dunno...the Opening theme from futurama when viewed from the sky, in laterally moving frames. How could anyone possibly *** that up?
Its not a perfect metaphor, but I would imagine working on an mmo would probably be kinda like that. I dont think its realistic to expect there to not be bugs, but they Should be accountable for them

Im going to school for CS, so im probly kinda oversensitive to these kind of posts. also, Im pretty sure that if theres a hell, theres a whole plane where you're chained to a desk, forced to spend eternity debugging source code. In fact, I heard it was such successfully sanity peeling torture, that theyre converting that ring of hell where you're being eaten alive by giant flesh burrowing insect larvae while being forced to watch your significant other cheating on you to more desolate chambers of debugging.

Anyway. Its only been a day. Cut them some slack, dammit.

While I don't disagree with what you say, with ESO I don't think it's quite as straight forward.

I use an expensive piece of music software, and sure enough, every year and a half when there's a paid update, there's huge problems due to unforseen bugs, and for the next few weeks, people with any sense (or actual work to do) will use the old version. But once the bugs are sorted, we get a nice almost perfectly stable bit of software (OK there's always the odd bug)

The problem with ESO is because we get such frequent updates, for some (depending on what you do in game) it seems like every few weeks, they are yet again facing the same problems.

PvP is virtually unplayable on the EU server at the moment. Lag has been in both PvE and PvP since the server moved to Germany, and the new update has simply added to that

It might not be long in reality, but people that log on each day and are dying due to lag, it soon becomes very very annoying and patience runs thin.

It was only a few weeks ago that we had the last problem (that lasted a good week or so) with FPS dropping to single figures for many in Cyrodiil.

If we were having updates twice a year, people would be more forgiving as they would have fairly stable game play for about 5 months at a time. But because it's about every 6 weeks, for many players it feels like they only have a game they can play for about 3 - 4 weeks out of 6, and for those players, yes I do fully understand their total lack of patience and annoyance. They can finally PvP after a couple of weeks of hell, then a couple of weeks later, here they go again.

What i know about coding, there is always a problem, and solving that problem always opens to another problem. i think its more like, what is the amount of problems what we tolerate? some tolerate 0, some 10, Most don't care as long as they can play. I get it, New MMO nothing like this out there, their company needs more money TO DO things, like more staff. 2015 it should look way better than this, and if not my personal line pay for this is there.

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Armchair coders...

That's a bit harsh on Zenimax. They're doing their best.

NFT.

Adonikam wrote: »

I write code everyday. I test my code before moving it into the QA environment for testing. I usually receive a couple bugs which I fix right away and then test before moving an update to QA. When my code is released into the Production environment, it works...

Seems a bit unnecessary when you could just throw some code together and then wait see what happens when your customers start using it.

Anastasia wrote: »

wwusterbarthub17_ESO wrote: »

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Royalroacho wrote: »

Sometimes these troll posts are hard to resist...this is a semi rhetorical half sarcastic question, but I wanted to know-are you a proffesionalsoftware developer, or ever dabbled in any kind of amatuer coding? It sounds snotty, but thats not my intention. I see these posts, and I wonder if theyre made by super genius programmers that have never been up all night scanning thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of lines of code again and again and again to find some interaction that causes a domino chain of sometimes unpredictable errors to show up. its not always an issue of competence, bugs happen.

Using the domino analogy, try to imagine setting up, like, a thousand chains of millions of dominoes, that fill up your entire town. Theyre supposed to fall and interact with eachother in a way that will display an animated moziac of like..I dunno...the Opening theme from futurama when viewed from the sky, in laterally moving frames. How could anyone possibly *** that up?
Its not a perfect metaphor, but I would imagine working on an mmo would probably be kinda like that. I dont think its realistic to expect there to not be bugs, but they Should be accountable for them

Im going to school for CS, so im probly kinda oversensitive to these kind of posts. also, Im pretty sure that if theres a hell, theres a whole plane where you're chained to a desk, forced to spend eternity debugging source code. In fact, I heard it was such successfully sanity peeling torture, that theyre converting that ring of hell where you're being eaten alive by giant flesh burrowing insect larvae while being forced to watch your significant other cheating on you to more desolate chambers of debugging.

Anyway. Its only been a day. Cut them some slack, dammit.

The PTS server is for testing, not the live server. They should test the final build there for at least 1 week before they actually put it out. When basic things like animations while riding with some costumes on are glitched, you know they *** up and did ZERO testing before releasing the patch.

Although I do not like bugs in games either, I have a question. How many people play on the PTS consistently? It can not be that many to test " as Royal put it" thousands of thousands of thousands of code without missing some.

---

Ever tried to recreate YOUR character on PTS in order to mess about and figure out how upcoming changes affect it etc????????????????

Since ZOS started to allow anyone/everyone to get on the test server...I must say, its not the MMO standard that most are used to when they try to access it for the purpose of trying new things out and helping send in bugs/suggestions of consequences as seen on their type of character build. Just isn't.

Rumour has it that some guilds use the PTS simply to work out exploits to use on live, hence don't bother reporting them.

PTS would be a lot better if we could simply copy our characters across complete with achievements, skill points etc.

As it is, we cant really test it as we play, for example with the dyes, my newly created vet 12 had no achievements.