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Weapon Damage Softcap, Hunding's Rage Set, Etc.
WilsonMG
Soul Shriven
Need a tester/math whiz to educate me here...
I'm using the Hunding's Rage set (x7 Medium, VR12, all Legendary, 22% increase), weapon damage jewelry (purple VR11's with legendary Rage glyphs), Flawless Dawnbreaker IV on my primary attack bar, legendary VR12 bow +crit, Thief Mundus with Divines trait on all 4 minor armor pieces, stamina glyphs in all armor, and VR5 food to put me at stamina softcap, etc. in an attempt to have a viable stamina build Bow NB with a focus on weapon damage and critical chance.
From my testing, the HR set may actually be working, but it's hard to tell for certain due to softcapping limits, it's giving maybe +1-2 damage per weapon attack/stamina-based ability (tested on some VR5 crocodiles and mudcrabs). Outside of Cyrodiil, my weapon damage is 180 and not overcharged, when I enter Cyrodiil, the stat becomes overcharged and drops to 172. With Warrior Mundus, the out of Cyrodiil damage was even higher (high 180's maybe, can't remember), but was only at 174 in Cyrodiil, softcapped of course, so I dropped it in favor of a boost to weapon critical chance with Thief.
My questions are these:
Why is weapon damage softcapped so hard yet spell damage/magicka builds are not?
Weapon damage softcaps at 180, right? Why? As far as I can tell, Spell Damage does not have a softcap. Why not?
If a set, like HR, boosts weapon damage and you're already at softcap, are you seeing only diminishing returns on actual damage dealt? Does this same issue affect spell damage builds or not since they don't seem to have a cap?
Ultimately, my concern is that due to weapon damage/stamina build softcapping, nothing I do can really boost my weapon/ability damage beyond the current glass ceiling. Maybe I should just suck it up and grab an inferno staff and swap stamina for magicka like everyone else...
Edited by WilsonMG on June 16, 2014 11:59PM I'm using the Hunding's Rage set (x7 Medium, VR12, all Legendary, 22% increase), weapon damage jewelry (purple VR11's with legendary Rage glyphs), Flawless Dawnbreaker IV on my primary attack bar, legendary VR12 bow +crit, Thief Mundus with Divines trait on all 4 minor armor pieces, stamina glyphs in all armor, and VR5 food to put me at stamina softcap, etc. in an attempt to have a viable stamina build Bow NB with a focus on weapon damage and critical chance.
From my testing, the HR set may actually be working, but it's hard to tell for certain due to softcapping limits, it's giving maybe +1-2 damage per weapon attack/stamina-based ability (tested on some VR5 crocodiles and mudcrabs). Outside of Cyrodiil, my weapon damage is 180 and not overcharged, when I enter Cyrodiil, the stat becomes overcharged and drops to 172. With Warrior Mundus, the out of Cyrodiil damage was even higher (high 180's maybe, can't remember), but was only at 174 in Cyrodiil, softcapped of course, so I dropped it in favor of a boost to weapon critical chance with Thief.
My questions are these:
Why is weapon damage softcapped so hard yet spell damage/magicka builds are not?
Weapon damage softcaps at 180, right? Why? As far as I can tell, Spell Damage does not have a softcap. Why not?
If a set, like HR, boosts weapon damage and you're already at softcap, are you seeing only diminishing returns on actual damage dealt? Does this same issue affect spell damage builds or not since they don't seem to have a cap?
Ultimately, my concern is that due to weapon damage/stamina build softcapping, nothing I do can really boost my weapon/ability damage beyond the current glass ceiling. Maybe I should just suck it up and grab an inferno staff and swap stamina for magicka like everyone else...
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WilsonMGSoul ShrivenThis post was swallowed up by the deluge as soon as I posted it. Bumping to see if anyone has any input here. I'd like to know why it feels like weapon builds were intentionally gimped.0
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Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭If a set, like HR, boosts weapon damage and you're already at softcap, are you seeing only diminishing returns on actual damage dealt?
I am pretty sure the answer is "yes".Does this same issue affect spell damage builds or not since they don't seem to have a cap?
I dont know, but i would be surprised if spell damage didnt have a cap like everything else.
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Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭Ultimately, my concern is that due to weapon damage/stamina build softcapping, nothing I do can really boost my weapon/ability damage beyond the current glass ceiling. Maybe I should just suck it up and grab an inferno staff and swap stamina for magicka like everyone else...
Hmmmmm no, because eventually your problem would be sustained (spelling?) damage, spike damage is fine and you can do your "assassin" job with a stamina build just fine.
Your stats are very similar to mine, and personally i have much better results with flying blade than with bows, but i didnt try hard enough with bows.
Edited by Gisgo on June 17, 2014 12:20AM1 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭I did several testing runs of HR set, most of them with middle level VR gear so i would not hit the soft cap. First remember that it is 22% of weapon damage for weapon abilities, so you will not see a 22% increase in damage, just the weapons effect to the skill. I found that the set did give me an increase, note that none of the tool tips show this and you need 3rd part mods to see it, but not nearly as much as it should.
I was running my tests with a 134 damage great sword, and I should have seen a 15 or so damage per hit increase, but was only seeing a 5 damage increase. Now, I am not saying like some people that it should be 22% skill damage, all I am saying is that even without the weapon damage soft cap, it inceases it by about a third of what it should.
Now if using a VR12 yellow weapon puts you at the cap without things like jewelry and divines and mundus. Then the cap needs to be raised. If you should have to go out od your way to try and cap something as basic as weapon damage.1 -
WilsonMGSoul ShrivenUltimately, my concern is that due to weapon damage/stamina build softcapping, nothing I do can really boost my weapon/ability damage beyond the current glass ceiling. Maybe I should just suck it up and grab an inferno staff and swap stamina for magicka like everyone else...
Hmmmmm no, because eventually your problem would be sustained (spelling?) damage, spike damage is fine and you can do your "assassin" job with a stamina build just fine.
Your stats are very similar to mine, and personally i have much better results with flying blade than with bows, but i didnt try hard enough with bows.
Oh, I know I could respec into DW and put out some serious DPS, I'm already not horrible (not complaining), just pointing out that it seems weapons/stamina have an abrupt cut-off with the softcapping, hence why I think I'm not seeing any return from 22% on Hunding's Rage... I also want to play the game I want to play and not chase FotM builds. I just want to play with a bow and be effective, but with the softcaps, it makes it very difficult.I did several testing runs of HR set, most of them with middle level VR gear so i would not hit the soft cap. First remember that it is 22% of weapon damage for weapon abilities, so you will not see a 22% increase in damage, just the weapons effect to the skill. I found that the set did give me an increase, note that none of the tool tips show this and you need 3rd part mods to see it, but not nearly as much as it should.
I was running my tests with a 134 damage great sword, and I should have seen a 15 or so damage per hit increase, but was only seeing a 5 damage increase. Now, I am not saying like some people that it should be 22% skill damage, all I am saying is that even without the weapon damage soft cap, it inceases it by about a third of what it should.
Now if using a VR12 yellow weapon puts you at the cap without things like jewelry and divines and mundus. Then the cap needs to be raised. If you should have to go out od your way to try and cap something as basic as weapon damage.
Yeah, I keep my weapon damage exactly at 180, but it still goes into overcharge and goes down when I enter Cyrodiil (and yes, I keep Battle Leveling off).
What I see with HR is, like I said, maybe 1-2 damage more per light/heavy attack than without it. This leads me to believe that due to being softcapped on weapon damage, the HR set is literally doing almost nothing for me.
Edited by WilsonMG on June 17, 2014 12:51AM0 -
Sihnfahl✭✭✭✭
Known issue, and they're supposedly looking into it. Don't hold your breath, though... HR has been broken at least since release, and since Weekend Beta folks couldn't do the time investment to get the requirements out of the way to at least craft the minimum...Just pointing out that it seems weapons/stamina have an abrupt cut-off with the softcapping, hence why I think I'm not seeing any return from 22% on Hunding's Rage...
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The real question is, why do Nightblade Class skills like Ambush, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, etc. us SPELL DAMAGE, when they use weapon CRIT?
HORRIBLE design decision is horrible. No wonder melee sucks.1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Weapon damage softcaps at 198 in PvE and 195 in PvP
did you miss the part where it was a month and a half old necro?You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points2 -
Jaxom✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Weapon damage softcaps at 198 in PvE and 195 in PvP
did you miss the part where it was a month and a half old necro?
It's quite impressive actually. They had to have dug back like 10 pages to find this one.0 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭.Edited by ExiledKhallisi on October 16, 2014 7:44AM>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War1 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »The real question is, why do Nightblade Class skills like Ambush, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, etc. us SPELL DAMAGE, when they use weapon CRIT?
HORRIBLE design decision is horrible. No wonder melee sucks.
Melee sucks because you can't stand near a Templar without dying and you can't stand near a DK without dying unless... you're a Templar or a DK. It has nothing to do with NB attacks using spell damage and melee crit.2 -
shadowz081✭✭✭Spell dam soft caps at around 120-130. I have tried stacking pure spell dam and have yet to make it pass 160. Wep dam on the other hand I can easily get around 210, and have seen up to 300 wep dam.0 -
æxæ✭✭✭Get the addon softcapsinfo and you will see any caps for your stats.
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info141-1.2.1.html
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »The real question is, why do Nightblade Class skills like Ambush, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, etc. us SPELL DAMAGE, when they use weapon CRIT?
HORRIBLE design decision is horrible. No wonder melee sucks.
i quoted this answer because it is definately the correct answer.
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LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »The real question is, why do Nightblade Class skills like Ambush, Surprise Attack, Killer's Blade, etc. us SPELL DAMAGE, when they use weapon CRIT?
HORRIBLE design decision is horrible. No wonder melee sucks.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
The mystery of skills that use spell damage and weapon crit (or weapon damage and spell crit) and related oddities trying to determine what stats impact what skills would be a wonderful topic for the devs or content designers to address, either here on the forums, any third party site or even during a discussion on ESO Live.
For class skills that use Magicka, players apply common sense and expect them to be based on Magicka, Spell Damage and Spell Crit. Similarly, for weapon skills that use Stamina, players expect them to be based on Stamina, Weapon Damage and Weapon Crit. There are numerous skills in the game that do not obey these simple rules and they have confused and angered tons of players.
Having someone from ZOS explain or address these questions/concerns and then promise to investigate/fix the oddballs would be a good use of someone's time and it would foster a ton of good will with the community.2 -
guybrushtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭LonePirate wrote: »Having someone from ZOS explain or address these questions/concerns and then promise to investigate/fix the oddballs would be a good use of someone's time and it would foster a ton of good will with the community.
Personally, I think this would be a much more discussed issue if people even knew it existed.
I'm sure the majority of casual players out there still think "if it looks like a spell and uses magicka like a spell then it will crit like a spell."2 -
Govalon✭✭✭✭Spell damage caps out much lower than weapon damage, something like 130 or so. In 1.4 they even raised the cap for weapon damage but not spell damage. This is ongoing project to get stamina builds on par with magicka builds
Why is weapon damage softcapped so hard yet spell damage/magicka builds are not?
Weapon damage softcaps at 180, right? Why? As far as I can tell, Spell Damage does not have a softcap. Why not?
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