Crafting with justice system in place.

Night_Watch · July 2014

First; Sorry this i a bit of a hit and run post! I'll be setting off on my travels from home (UK) to the continent (Europe) shortly and I'm not sure how much internet access I'll have for the couple of days travelling (or in the next week).

So! To the main post;

With the justice system coming in to play some time soon, I'm curious about how it will change the game for crafters - especially those that prefer PVE to PVP.

Currently, a crafter can gain many craft materials by 'looting' a basket, barrel, sack or such and have no penalty. The crafter does not get any sort of 'thief' marker for example.

From what I have seen, if a crafter is caught 'stealing' from a sack (or other container) when the justice system is in place, that crafter will be marked as a thief.

One upshot of all this means that if a crafter is caught then they will either have to pay a fine or fight it out with an NPC and they will lose all 'stolen' goods when paying a fine. All good - I'm not complaining as such.

Another upshot is that the marked crafter may / will be tagged for 'open' PVP - wether they like it or not. This takes the players that want to 'play the way you ...' as primarily PVE directly into PVP which they may not like at all. This is not a big issue for me but for some it may be.

So! How will this all effect a crafter that currently gets lots of crafting materials from containers in towns or cities (or even from containers 'in the wild')?

To prevent the risk of being marked for PVP, the crafter may (or will) have to find new sources for materials. What sources will be in place to help such gatherer crafters so they can get the same amount of materials for free or at very low cost without risking being marked as a thief or marked for PVP?

Please try to answer constructively. I'm not whining or complaining. I'm just curious.

(And, yes! I know it is probably a caes of wait and see!)

Edit: Have bookmarked this thread on my iPad for (limited) use while travelling.

Animus_Igneus · July 2014

From what I've seen you don't get 'marked' for PvP as soon as you steal something... you get marked for PvP as soon as you try to flee after being caught by guards.

If you're careful, this won't be an issue - there's also plenty of places to get mats that aren't owned by NPC's in cities; in fact the vast majority of containers with provisioning mats for example, are actually out in the world rather than in cities.

DeLindsay · July 2014

Animus_Igneus wrote: »

From what I've seen you don't get 'marked' for PvP as soon as you steal something... you get marked for PvP as soon as you try to flee after being caught by guards.

If you're careful, this won't be an issue - there's also plenty of places to get mats that aren't owned by NPC's in cities; in fact the vast majority of containers with provisioning mats for example, are actually out in the world rather than in cities.

Sort of, Paul Sage clearly said that at some level of Bounty you will be openly flagged. But yes, it won't happen the moment you steal a single lockpick from some NPC's nightstand. Also what he said, MOST lootable containers are in open world and not owned by any NPC. TBH, this won't effect crafters in any way. It might effect the cost of motifs, at least a little, since you won't easily be able to log-farm Motifs all day long anymore without consequences.

If you've ever played previous TES games you will know stealing from containers even within earshot of Guards is very easy to do without getting caught, you just have to be smart about it. Also, Paul Sage said there will be fences around to sell stolen items.

BrierTOG · July 2014

hmm if you make items from stolen goods is it still stolen something to wander about as well

.

AreoHotah · July 2014

Put your stuff in bank and change your PIN code more often so that the 5-O won't take away you shizzle...

Shaun98ca2 · July 2014

Im certain you cant deposit stolen goods into the bank like you cant sell them to any vendor only a SPECIAL one.

GFBStarWars · July 2014

just add vendor for provisioning and for the gear craft you can get everything by deconstructing loot and refining, alchemy and enchanting won't have problems

solved

Ashtaris · July 2014

I'm hoping they will do something like in Skyrim where some crates/mats were open for the taking, and others were marked for stealing. I'm sorry, but I don't want to be forced into stealing.

Isibis · July 2014

I think a dev confirmed that there will be honest alternatives for provisioners. Probably something like what @Ashtaris‌ suggested. I am almost certain that provisioning mats will become a bit harder to find in bulk. Maybe those willing to run the risks of theft can have a valuable market selling to rich provisioners that want mats fast.
the other professions are likely not going to be affected, since their mats come from the wild.

Night_Watch · July 2014

I've not been long back from my trip and needed rest. So! Though this is a bit old now, I wanted to thank all that replied.

I'm looking forward to getting back in game!

Surragard · July 2014

This will make provisioning slightly harder but I think it'll add some balance since provisioning is so easy to level to 50 as it stands now. Turn on auto loot and hit the cooking fire every time you pass one. I think I hit 50 in Provisioning before I was level 20 and my other crafting skill I was working on (blacksmithing) was level 5 haha.

DeLindsay · July 2014

Ashtaris wrote: »

I'm hoping they will do something like in Skyrim where some crates/mats were open for the taking, and others were marked for stealing. I'm sorry, but I don't want to be forced into stealing.

This is what they should do but even if they don't it's absurdly easy to steal in TES games without being caught. The only time a Guard will mess with you is if you get caught doing something illegal (or your Bounty reaches a certain level), otherwise steal all day long if you like and walk right passed Guards.

grimjim398 · July 2014

Night_Watch wrote: »

First; Sorry this i a bit of a hit and run post! I'll be setting off on my travels from home (UK) to the continent (Europe) shortly and I'm not sure how much internet access I'll have for the couple of days travelling (or in the next week).

So! To the main post;

With the justice system coming in to play some time soon, I'm curious about how it will change the game for crafters - especially those that prefer PVE to PVP.

Currently, a crafter can gain many craft materials by 'looting' a basket, barrel, sack or such and have no penalty. The crafter does not get any sort of 'thief' marker for example.

From what I have seen, if a crafter is caught 'stealing' from a sack (or other container) when the justice system is in place, that crafter will be marked as a thief.

One upshot of all this means that if a crafter is caught then they will either have to pay a fine or fight it out with an NPC and they will lose all 'stolen' goods when paying a fine. All good - I'm not complaining as such.

Another upshot is that the marked crafter may / will be tagged for 'open' PVP - wether they like it or not. This takes the players that want to 'play the way you ...' as primarily PVE directly into PVP which they may not like at all. This is not a big issue for me but for some it may be.

So! How will this all effect a crafter that currently gets lots of crafting materials from containers in towns or cities (or even from containers 'in the wild')?

To prevent the risk of being marked for PVP, the crafter may (or will) have to find new sources for materials. What sources will be in place to help such gatherer crafters so they can get the same amount of materials for free or at very low cost without risking being marked as a thief or marked for PVP?

Please try to answer constructively. I'm not whining or complaining. I'm just curious.

(And, yes! I know it is probably a caes of wait and see!)

Edit: Have bookmarked this thread on my iPad for (limited) use while travelling.

As you have said yourself, there is no possible way to know about this until the Justice System comes into the game. This won't affect all the crafts equally since they don't all depend on taking from containers to the same degree. But speculation is pointless in most cases and very pointless on this forum since people are just going to turn this into the same PvP versus PvE thread that has been here before.

Night_Watch · August 2014

Yeah! Speculation is bad - especially on this forum. That said, there have been some interesting answers on this thread and I am glad for that.

It would be nice to get some information regarding the questions raised from an official source and that would put an end to speculation. I'm sure I'm not the only one that wonders about these things or the only one that would appreciate a 'heads up' from Beth / Zeni to let us know what to expect.

As is, I'll just wait and see.

theyancey · August 2014

These changes are making me more nervous than sitting nest to an ebola patient on a bus.

Woolenthreads · August 2014

I'm not as concerned about the materials, as much as I am about obtaining recipes. The specific containers where recipes are found are urns, backpacks, cabinets and wardrobes, the majority of which are found in buildings generally owned by NPC's. The Recipes are far more important than the food mats.

PlagueMonk · August 2014

I honestly feel a bit "bad" when I enter someone's house (while they are there!) and just go rifling through their drawers/cabinets for things. I would really expect them to either try and stop me or run out into the street and call a guard.

All this means is if you loot in cities make sure you are alone (and the things to be looted should be better to offset the risk! so NO common crapola)

Crafters will just have to take to looting dungeons or enemy NPC camps (which is what I loot primarily anyway) if they want to be honest about it. It just means there will be no more easy and free lunch

jalisar63b14_ESO · August 2014

Well I dont see this justice system making a solid run into the main stream of the game for some time. Had it been there from start, crafting would have been more interesting. EVEN more so if ALL crafts had recipes rather than magically assimilated knowledge OF the most legendary level.

Arora · August 2014

BrierTOG wrote: »

hmm if you make items from stolen goods is it still stolen something to wander about as well .

no in all other games once ou use it in something its no longer stolen

Kewljag_66_ESO · August 2014

Night_Watch wrote: »

First; Sorry this i a bit of a hit and run post! I'll be setting off on my travels from home (UK) to the continent (Europe) shortly and I'm not sure how much internet access I'll have for the couple of days travelling (or in the next week).

So! To the main post;

With the justice system coming in to play some time soon, I'm curious about how it will change the game for crafters - especially those that prefer PVE to PVP.

Currently, a crafter can gain many craft materials by 'looting' a basket, barrel, sack or such and have no penalty. The crafter does not get any sort of 'thief' marker for example.

From what I have seen, if a crafter is caught 'stealing' from a sack (or other container) when the justice system is in place, that crafter will be marked as a thief.

One upshot of all this means that if a crafter is caught then they will either have to pay a fine or fight it out with an NPC and they will lose all 'stolen' goods when paying a fine. All good - I'm not complaining as such.

Another upshot is that the marked crafter may / will be tagged for 'open' PVP - wether they like it or not. This takes the players that want to 'play the way you ...' as primarily PVE directly into PVP which they may not like at all. This is not a big issue for me but for some it may be.

So! How will this all effect a crafter that currently gets lots of crafting materials from containers in towns or cities (or even from containers 'in the wild')?

To prevent the risk of being marked for PVP, the crafter may (or will) have to find new sources for materials. What sources will be in place to help such gatherer crafters so they can get the same amount of materials for free or at very low cost without risking being marked as a thief or marked for PVP?

Please try to answer constructively. I'm not whining or complaining. I'm just curious.

(And, yes! I know it is probably a caes of wait and see!)

Edit: Have bookmarked this thread on my iPad for (limited) use while travelling.

I am almost certain it will be like it was in Skyrim. Meaning if you try to take the easy road it will be STEALING from those close friendly NPCs in towns. But you will be free to take from any container that is not owned by friendly NPCs. So it will take a little more time to travel out of town to the open world where their are abandon houses, caravan wrecks, and anything from bandits or pirates. you should be able to go into any dungeon or hideout and take from the many sacks and containers inside.

But if you want to try to risk stealing from those locals you could pay the fine and even a death to other players. So if you dont want to be killed by another player dont steal and spend a little more time collecting from bad NPC areas

GnatB · August 2014

Pretty much all we have so far is speculation.
One thing I'm unclear of. Do you get a "bounty" for stealing, or for actually being spotted by an NPC guard? My assumption would be the latter. If so, as long as you don't get caught (or pay off your fine if you are) you're in the clear as far as PvP goes.

I also find it *highly* unlikely you won't be able to bank most stolen goods, unless the intent for thievery is to simply make the only real function of stolen items something you can sell to the fence for gold.... which brings up another point, exactly what are we stealing? They said stolen items will have value, but currently everything you loot from containers has extremely negligable NPC value, and I don't really see them making provisioning mats worth some if they're stolen, but not worth anything if you get them out of a cave or something. And they're so common, I'd argue they *shouldn't* be worth anything.

To be honest, I wouldn't be all that surprised if the 0 cost weapons/armor lieing around, and food lieing around in the open, is the extent of what we can steal, and will have a value given to it.

Woolenthreads wrote: »

I'm not as concerned about the materials, as much as I am about obtaining recipes. The specific containers where recipes are found are urns, backpacks, cabinets and wardrobes, the majority of which are found in buildings generally owned by NPC's. The Recipes are far more important than the food mats.

I agree. Recipies (and motifs) are the primary reason I run through the bank looting every time I log on a char. Heck it's only the furniture I actually loot. And furniture is very rare outside towns. If I thought this system was dropping any time soon I'd start hoarding recipes/motifs, as I strongly suspect the price on them is going to jump up dramatically after this system goes live.