New night's silence set = NB's form of BE

ThisOnePosts · July 2014

The thing is, this set isn't limited to Nightblades! So at the end of the day, who cares? It's a nice buff for those who like to move around fast ---- which EVERY SINGLE CLASS can use.

Samadhi · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

kieso wrote: »

whats the % increase to sneak with the vamp passive?

Vampire passive makes it so that sneak speed does not receive a penalty -- I move the same speed as when I am walking.

Nightblade Concealed Weapon makes me move at almost sprinting speed while crouched, as a Vampire.

Theoretically Night's Silence set will make Vampires sneak at 60% faster than normal walking speed, going by the wording on the set.

First, the penalty negation = run speed not walk speed. ...

Yeah, that was my error. I refer to running and walking as the same thing, because I never toggle off the always run feature.
You are correct in referring to default move speed as run speed though; so long as no one confuses that with sprint speed.

Kiljaz · July 2014

Set bonus + dark stalker + conc wep = stealth at 85% horse speed lol

DeLindsay · July 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

Yeah, that was my error. I refer to running and walking as the same thing, because I never toggle off the always run feature.
You are correct in referring to default move speed as run speed though; so long as no one confuses that with sprint speed.

No worries, the only reason I even mentioned it is because there are actually people who don't know the difference, and for probably the exact reason you state, that they have toggle run always on.

Jaxom · July 2014

So we still havent confirmed if this stacks?

Phinix1 · July 2014

Personally, I kinda wish there was some NB exclusive ability to gain sneak speed beyond that of any other class, to compensate for some of the class's other shortcomings.

reften · July 2014

aco5712 wrote: »

Firstly i want to say i am a NB, that is my main character and i do plan to take full advantage of this new set however i dont want to see cloak get nerfed the way bolt escape did or for me to waste all my mats on this set to have it changed to something useless.

The new set will give 60% movement speed in stealth when you got 5 pieces. Now you couple that with concealed weapon (25%) and the vampire passive (remove speed penalty in stealth) and what do you have? Insane speed.

I run conc. wep and vampire passive and as it stands i can move in a sprint in stealth (im sure most of you know about this). When i have someone cast rapid maneuvers, i run as fast as horses (obviously depends on the horse but i have caught people like this). Rapid is only a 20% buff (30% is its morphed), so i can only imagine what another 30-40% speed will do. You can also get the mundus which gives you movement speed for even more. All in all you can get about 95% speed (judging that the mundus is 10% speed) in stealth without rapid maneuvers .

Now the real problem starts when you catch someone with this insane speed. If the fight doesnt go your way and they arent running magelight / detect pots, 1 cloak duration with this speed will probably double the distance if not more of a single bolt escape and your totally invisible. Cloak can be cast up to like 6 times at least with full magicka + 1 pot if you dont have light armour.

This new nights silence set is cool in theory but i think it needs a nerf before it even goes live. A 25/30% speed boost imo is more then enough. It lets non NBs hit our speeds but still lets NBs dominate stealth movement.

So yeh, i dont want them to nerf cloak in a couple weeks when every NB is flying across maps.

Thank you for reading, hopefully ZOS reads this.

Riiiiight, because everyone is a vampire. Call for a nerf to vamps

Jaxom · July 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Personally, I kinda wish there was some NB exclusive ability to gain sneak speed beyond that of any other class, to compensate for some of the class's other shortcomings.

Concealed Weapon.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

This set wasn't working last I heard...

I would use it if it was. I have also debated being a vampire for the sneak speed, but they are so common and ugly.

aco5712 · July 2014

oren74 wrote: »

Riiiiight, because everyone is a vampire. Call for a nerf to vamps

Not everyone is but as soon as there is a new "exploit" people use it.

Lyall84 · July 2014

fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »

any class can use this set. any class can be a vampire.
when nb use shadow cloak they become invisible, not stealth. the speed while invisible is not the same as the speed while stealth. so this set apllies to stealth, not invisible. you wont get this speed bonus when use shadowcloak

It is all in the wording...invisibility is stealth...so is sneaking...but sneaking is not invisibility and invisibility is not crouching.

Some effects say while crouching, only effects sneak. Some say invisible, some say hidden, some say stealth, etc.

Bottom line, cloak makes you invisible and concealed weapons increases speed while stealth.

Dont believe me, have it slotted and pop cloak while normal running instead of sneaking.

Not sure if other people postes this information.

Edit, just read your post again, if you are talking about the set bonus you would be correct, but...it would be easy for a vampire to simply press the ctrl key and start sneaking just after using cloak to get the speed.

Lyall84 · July 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

I also think the OP is assuming you can just run away from a losing fight at at the total sneak speed bonus. you cannot do this because you cannot enter sneak while in combat. Even if you use the NB vanish skill this is not the same as sneak and you are not getting the sneak speed bonus.

personally the way i see it is fine with all stacking, if one had to be removed I would say make vamp speed not stack.

Nights silence set makes you sacrifice not allowing the big 5th bonus from any other set. that is a big deal. If you lower Nights Silence speed bonus of 60% at all then the set is not worth it.

Concealed Weapon, you are making a big sacrafice for 25% sneak speed over the 40% armor debuff of Suprise Attack. Alot of people may not know this but all the NB class melee skills are based off the targets armor NOT magic resist. So 40% armor debuff is a big deal.

Incorrect for concealed weapons speed bonus says while stealth not sneak. Different wording, read above post from me.

But correct for the set bonus...

Lyall84 · July 2014

aco5712 wrote: »

Is there a difference between sneak and invis? i swear they are counted as the same thing. If they arent then there will be no problem but if this set does work together, then the problem is there.

Question: the new hundings rage set says increase wep POWER by 24 not wep DAMAGE. Now i asked my guilds and people said power refers to light/heavy attacks. Ashen grip says wep damage so its not just ZOS interchanging the word. So which is it?

Yes, invisible, sneak are different, but both count as stealth.

Your guild members are mistaken. Weapon power effects both skills and normal attacks. Before, hundings rage only effected skill damage. So the slightly lower number but added effect to normal attacks. Still up in the air if it is a buff or nerf, odds are a push.

Lyall84 · July 2014

Mescalamba wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Is there a difference between sneak and invis? i swear they are counted as the same thing. If they arent then there will be no problem but if this set does work together, then the problem is there.

Question: the new hundings rage set says increase wep POWER by 24 not wep DAMAGE. Now i asked my guilds and people said power refers to light/heavy attacks. Ashen grip says wep damage so its not just ZOS interchanging the word. So which is it?

Yes, power is light and heavy attack. Weapon damage simple adds damage to everything based on it (skills, light, heavy). For some builds its good..

I disagree. Check your skill damage tool tip with weapon power rings. If that were the case, spell power would only effect normal attacks.

This confusion started with the odd wording of the original hundings rage set and juggernaut and that one morph of immovable. They all said they inceased weapon damage while using weapon skills. Meaning it only effected the skill, while weapon power was previously something you could only glyph for. They are working to simplify the wording and effects to better understand.

Lyall84 · July 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

So why didn't you make this thread when it buggedly said +220%? :?

Because other people already did?

hasselhoffman · July 2014

The only reason why I stay vampire is because of the sneak passive. Additionally though I don't want to waste mats on an armor set that will allow me to get rid of the vampirism if there going to nerf the armor set in an upcoming patch. I agree with others that have mentioned it. This issue centers around vampires not the armor set.

nvsg · July 2014

All of your paragraph here was great reading until I got to where you said it needs a nerf shhhhhuuut up and let Nbs have some fun with it yo seriously giving ideas for a nerf of something you can finally take advantage of lol

CapuchinSeven · July 2014

FunkyBudda wrote: »

I disagree, since NBs cried and whined for buffs, then bitched and moaned for nerfs (BE for Sorcs and other skills for DKs), they need to get a taste of their own medicine. ZoS, please nerf NBs.

Lets just make this clear, because of an armour set anyone can craft and wear and a Vampire passive that anyone can have... you want to nerf Nightblades?

Well, sounds like a logical, non-emotional based argument if ever I heard one.

stumpy999 · July 2014

how do % work? are they additive?

Say I have 20% bonus to stealth speed and get a 10% bonus from another source, is that 30% or 22%?

Bramir · July 2014

Once again, vampires are problematic for game balance...imagine that...

Enjinir · July 2014

Seems to me like the big problem comes from the Vampire passive, not Nightblades at all:

Using RevSpeed add-on:

Normal, non-sprint speed is 250 units-per-second (ups).
Crouch/Hidden speed is 150 ups.
The vampire passive negates the crouch/hidden decrease, which is -100 ups.
So, to put it in similar terms, vamp passive alone increases base sneak speed 66%.

It would seem that Night's Silence set is basically putting everyone on the same terms as the vamp passive, at the cost of a 5-set bonus.

The solution would be to either disallow vamp passive from stacking with NS, or change the NS bonus to the same as vamp passive "negating crouch decrease."

Also, on the topic of weapons being sheathed/drawn:

Walk, sheathed: 250 ups
Walk, drawn: 225 ups
Sprint, sheathed: 370 ups
Sprint, drawn: 333 ups
Crouch, sheathed: 150 ups
Crouch, drawn: 150 ups

Drawn clearly does not affect SNEAK speed, but it does affect normal walk/sprint speeds.

It also appears that Drawn drops your current stance's base speed by 10%.

Hope that helps...

Samadhi · July 2014

Enjinir wrote: »

Seems to me like the big problem comes from the Vampire passive, not Nightblades at all:
Using RevSpeed add-on:

Normal, non-sprint speed is 250 units-per-second (ups).
Crouch/Hidden speed is 150 ups.
The vampire passive negates the crouch/hidden decrease, which is -100 ups.
So, to put it in similar terms, vamp passive alone increases base sneak speed 66%.

It would seem that Night's Silence set is basically putting everyone on the same terms as the vamp passive, at the cost of a 5-set bonus.

The solution would be to either disallow vamp passive from stacking with NS, or change the NS bonus to the same as vamp passive "negating crouch decrease."

Also, on the topic of weapons being sheathed/drawn:
Walk, sheathed: 250 ups
Walk, drawn: 225 ups
Sprint, sheathed: 370 ups
Sprint, drawn: 333 ups
Crouch, sheathed: 150 ups
Crouch, drawn: 150 ups

Drawn clearly does not affect SNEAK speed, but it does affect normal walk/sprint speeds.

It also appears that Drawn drops your current stance's base speed by 10%.

Hope that helps...

Informative post, thank you for this.

Awdwyn · August 2014

Tested this. Vampire passive, NB concealed weapon, and the 5pc set bonus for Nights Silence all stack. Without concealed weapon my stealth is super fast, with concealed weapon I literally am running into walls and have a hard time maneuvering inside buildings in stealth.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or whoever needs to know - is this intentional? If so, I can see it being a serious point of contention in PvP (even without the NB concealed weapon bonus),

demonlkojipub19_ESO · August 2014

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

So why didn't you make this thread when it buggedly said +220%? :?

Because other people already did?

No, they made bug report threads, because it didn't work.

What it is is because it didn't work no one bothered, until they announce it will work soon then the crying starts.

Now we'll have some even more speedy nightblade vampires should they choose to use this set... /shrug.

Samadhi · August 2014

Awdwyn wrote: »

Tested this. Vampire passive, NB concealed weapon, and the 5pc set bonus for Nights Silence all stack. Without concealed weapon my stealth is super fast, with concealed weapon I literally am running into walls and have a hard time maneuvering inside buildings in stealth.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or whoever needs to know - is this intentional? If so, I can see it being a serious point of contention in PvP (even without the NB concealed weapon bonus),

Stacking with vampire is a little much, but at least it is on a 5 piece set.

I could totally see this being made to not stack with vampire though; without the vampire bonus it doesn't seem like it's that bad.

It's just that whole vampire-being-as-fast-as-though-they-weren't-sneaking part to begin with that really makes this bonus overbearing.

Jaxom · August 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

Awdwyn wrote: »

Tested this. Vampire passive, NB concealed weapon, and the 5pc set bonus for Nights Silence all stack. Without concealed weapon my stealth is super fast, with concealed weapon I literally am running into walls and have a hard time maneuvering inside buildings in stealth.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ or whoever needs to know - is this intentional? If so, I can see it being a serious point of contention in PvP (even without the NB concealed weapon bonus),

Stacking with vampire is a little much, but at least it is on a 5 piece set.

I could totally see this being made to not stack with vampire though; without the vampire bonus it doesn't seem like it's that bad.

It's just that whole vampire-being-as-fast-as-though-they-weren't-sneaking part to begin with that really makes this bonus overbearing.

Yeah. I agree. You are giving up a 5 set just to move ridiculously fast in stealth. Concealed +Vampire is fast enough. I'll take a different 5 set (Hunding's anyone?) over it.

I do believe the 60% is equivilent to the Vampire passive. It gives people the ability to get fast stealth without being a vampire at the cost of a 5 piece set. I think that is fair.

Maulkin · August 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

I do believe the 60% is equivilent to the Vampire passive. It gives people the ability to get fast stealth without being a vampire at the cost of a 5 piece set. I think that is fair.

Absolutely no issues with this, 5-set trait to get the same perk as one of the vamp passive.

However the stacking could be an issue. Moving in stealth faster than running? Doesn't sound normal to me.

I did some tests with a friend the other day (before patch) and on his Vamp NB with Path of Darkness and Concealed Weapon and Retreating Manoeuvres he could stealth walk faster than I could Bolt Escape. Now add that set on top and he'll be faster than me on my level 50 horse, in stealth.

Awdwyn · August 2014

Ok using a mod that shows speed in units per second (UpS). Here's my results:

75 walking
250 running
360 sprinting
250 stealth (no set, no concealed, with vamp)
310 stealth (no set, concealed, vamp)
400 stealth (set, no conealed, vamp)
460 stealth (set, concealed, vamp)
~88 horse walking
290 horse running
360 horse sprinting
400 horse double sprint

The horse is a imperial edition 1g horse with all points in carry weight.

sagitter · August 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

I do believe the 60% is equivilent to the Vampire passive. It gives people the ability to get fast stealth without being a vampire at the cost of a 5 piece set. I think that is fair.

Absolutely no issues with this, 5-set trait to get the same perk as one of the vamp passive.

However the stacking could be an issue. Moving in stealth faster than running? Doesn't sound normal to me.

I did some tests with a friend the other day (before patch) and on his Vamp NB with Path of Darkness and Concealed Weapon and Retreating Manoeuvres he could stealth walk faster than I could Bolt Escape. Now add that set on top and he'll be faster than me on my level 50 horse, in stealth.

Retreating manoeuvres and path of dark should be not considered, we are talking about pure passives ability that increases stealth movement.

Maulkin · August 2014

Awdwyn wrote: »

Ok using a mod that shows speed in units per second (UpS). Here's my results:

75 walking
250 running
360 sprinting
250 stealth (no set, no concealed, with vamp)
310 stealth (no set, concealed, vamp)
400 stealth (set, no conealed, vamp)
460 stealth (set, concealed, vamp)
~88 horse walking
290 horse running
360 horse sprinting
400 horse double sprint

The horse is a imperial edition 1g horse with all points in carry weight.

Humour me, do 1 test with path of darkness and retreating manoeuvres.

If you tell me the name of the add-on, I'll give you the speed on a level 50 Imperial Horse with all point on speed.