Bow Nerf

TheBull · August 2014

-Bow
The heavy attack animation now plays fully when you have a bow equipped, even if it’s only charged for a short amount of time.

Just what stam builds need. Good thing respec cost has been cut... It's like Wheeler and his DK got killed once and he's making sure that will never happen again...

EDIT- After one day of play and adjusting to the new timing, I feel I can safely say with the raising of the caps and the crit I gained from gear changes this change is still a nerf to burst while an increase to avg dmg. I don't want to say sustained, I'm not sure about that but my average dmg seems higher. Pretty surgical job in all honesty.

Xnemesis · August 2014

kinda kills the stealth heavy attack/poison arrow clipping for an opening attack now... needed fixed imo they were both receiving the stealth bonus if timed correctly.

Wish they would add in a visual cue to let you know you have full drawn your bow since they don't auto fire like other weapons.

Samadhi · August 2014

I wonder if it will also do full heavy attack damage by doing this.

I also wonder if this was somehow made in order to make Bow work with Medium Armour passive and Haste buff.

TheBull · August 2014

Xnemesis wrote: »

kinda kills the stealth heavy attack/poison arrow clipping for an opening attack now... needed fixed imo they were both receiving the stealth bonus if timed correctly.

Wish they would add in a visual cue to let you know you have full drawn your bow since they don't auto fire like other weapons.

All that happens now is poison arrow gets spammed. Can't even put a light attack with it, it seems so far.

Xnemesis · August 2014

yeah would be nice if I could hold for a second and receive the full heavy damage.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · August 2014

Xnemesis wrote: »

Wish they would add in a visual cue to let you know you have full drawn your bow since they don't auto fire like other weapons.

There is one. When the bow turn full vertical during the draw, is when it
is at max damage for heavy attacks.

Xnemesis · August 2014

TheBull wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

kinda kills the stealth heavy attack/poison arrow clipping for an opening attack now... needed fixed imo they were both receiving the stealth bonus if timed correctly.

Wish they would add in a visual cue to let you know you have full drawn your bow since they don't auto fire like other weapons.

All that happens now is poison arrow gets spammed. Can't even put a light attack with it, it seems so far.

Yup figured that was a fix to prevent this type of opener from stealth. I guess ill be putting snipe back on the bar lol

wish they would add an increase to poison damage on the snipe ability

Xnemesis · August 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

Wish they would add in a visual cue to let you know you have full drawn your bow since they don't auto fire like other weapons.

There is one. When the bow turn full vertical during the draw, is when it
is at max damage for heavy attacks.

I think I may have a synching problem then because if that is the case haste does absolutely nothing for bows or the weighted trait.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · August 2014

Has anyone tryed it? It could simply be a speeded up animation of the heavy attack

khele23eb17_ESO · August 2014

With ESO's track record of clear and precise tooltips this sentence could mean absolutely anything...

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · August 2014

Haha ye

Reiterpallasch · August 2014

So did they forget to add this or some such? My bow fires precisely when I want it too, and most definitely does not play the full heavy attack animation.

Xnemesis · August 2014

Reiterpallasch wrote: »

So did they forget to add this or some such? My bow fires precisely when I want it too, and most definitely does not play the full heavy attack animation.

Before you could send out a partially charged heavy attack for less damage then a full heavy attack. From what I have read it seems that the partially charged attack will still play the full animation. Or it seems that you will no longer be able to clip the animation after you fire with poison arrow. Those are the two things I can gather from its wording. Maybe its one or the other or a combination of both.

Nestor · August 2014

Xnemesis wrote: »

Wish they would add in a visual cue to let you know you have full drawn your bow since they don't auto fire like other weapons.

If the information in this video is current, then you may not want to fully charge you bow for a Critical

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiUATvbFDUQ

I can't remember exactly where he starts comparing, but a partially pulled bow does significantly more damage than a fully pulled bow with regards to criticals.

Xnemesis · August 2014

Nestor wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

Wish they would add in a visual cue to let you know you have full drawn your bow since they don't auto fire like other weapons.

If the information in this video is current, then you may not want to fully charge you bow for a Critical

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiUATvbFDUQ

I can't remember exactly where he starts comparing, but a partially pulled bow does significantly more damage than a fully pulled bow with regards to criticals.

Yeah The only reason an auto fire would be helpful is if haste and weighted traits worked properly. Supposedly they don't or not in a way we would traditionally think they would work so its whatever.

SirAndy · August 2014

TheBull wrote: »

It's like Wheeler and is DK got killed once and he's making sure that will never happen again...

Congrats, you just discovered how ZOS implements class balance!
;-)

Kewljag_66_ESO · August 2014

After Snipe was reduced to 2 seconds Bow became very powerful. Thats all i really use is Snipe from a distance and can kill some light armor users in 2 shots.

TheBull · August 2014

It now leaves just enough time for a DK to Dragon Blood out of trouble...

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

So you can't partial? How does this actually work? If this does nerf Bow then that's definitely it for me. Gone. But I'd rather hear/see how it actually works first.

TheBull · August 2014

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

So you can't partial? How does this actually work? If this does nerf Bow then that's definitely it for me. Gone. But I'd rather hear/see how it actually works first.

It nerfs it no question. At the same time we can gain a lot of stam and crit. It seems this change broke the 1 2, 1 2, 1 2 thing we had going. Still testing, but I've had several DKs get away were as yesterday they would have been dead.

Not all bad, but certainly a nerf.

Anastasia · August 2014

TheBull wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

So you can't partial? How does this actually work? If this does nerf Bow then that's definitely it for me. Gone. But I'd rather hear/see how it actually works first.

It nerfs it no question. At the same time we can gain a lot of stam and crit. It seems this change broke the 1 2, 1 2, 1 2 thing we had going. Still testing, but I've had several DKs get away were as yesterday they would have been dead.

Not all bad, but certainly a nerf.

"gain a lot of stam and crit"... Numbers please for substantiation of over-stating change.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

Great. Because that's what the only ranged stamina weapon needed in pvp against all the cheesy magicka crap (like hold block and spam one ability).

Again, I'll try it for myself first but if ZOS really want me to put on a dress and wave a fairywand I'll be seeing them at the unsub page.

Obscure · August 2014

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Great. Because that's what the only ranged stamina weapon needed in pvp against all the cheesy magicka crap (like hold block and spam one ability).

Again, I'll try it for myself first but if ZOS really want me to put on a dress and wave a fairywand I'll be seeing them at the unsub page.

Restoration staff has the same range...

Ignores miss and dodge....

Cannot be reflected...

Restores magicka with attacks....

Restores magicka when it blocks attacks...

Increases damage of ALL skills based on health up to 10%...

ESO = Equip Sticks Only

frwinters_ESO · August 2014

TheBull wrote: »

-Bow
The heavy attack animation now plays fully when you have a bow equipped, even if it’s only charged for a short amount of time.

Just what stam builds need. Good thing respec cost has been cut... It's like Wheeler and his DK got killed once and he's making sure that will never happen again...

this prevents people from weaving in attacks between using their abilities, which doubles the damage, which wasn't intended. This is a good thing.

Obscure · August 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

-Bow
The heavy attack animation now plays fully when you have a bow equipped, even if it’s only charged for a short amount of time.

Just what stam builds need. Good thing respec cost has been cut... It's like Wheeler and his DK got killed once and he's making sure that will never happen again...

this prevents people from weaving in attacks between using their abilities, which doubles the damage, which wasn't intended. This is a good thing.

I have some testing to do when I get home from work, but if someone wants to test before I get to it:

1. Animation cancel with bashing.
2. Double Tap light attack to animation cancel.
3. Double Tap block to animation cancel.
4. Weapon Swap to animation cancel now that it has highest priority.

If any of that works it's easy to override the animation. Plug in the extra key strokes rapidly and there's just a slight bit more skill required to use the old rotation. Theoretically of course. Like I said I need to test it myself, right now it's just a hypothesis, but feel free to test it for yourself.

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

To be honest I'm not really seeing much difference in game..
I can cancel the anim by: simple releasing the charge or hitting block (weapon swap does not work).

It's probably bugged.

I'm messing around with skills on mobs atm and I've noticed that snipe doesn't register any damage on mobs health bars at all for me. So that's handy. Could be that everything's bugged for me.

I'll need to do a bit more testing but I don't feel bow dps has been nerfed for me quite yet. But I'm only fighting woeful landscape mobs. I'll need to hit some bigger prey. A troll or 2 perhaps.

Anastasia · August 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

-Bow
The heavy attack animation now plays fully when you have a bow equipped, even if it’s only charged for a short amount of time.

Just what stam builds need. Good thing respec cost has been cut... It's like Wheeler and his DK got killed once and he's making sure that will never happen again...

this prevents people from weaving in attacks between using their abilities, which doubles the damage, which wasn't intended. This is a good thing.

Tell me please...are all other possible skill weaving/cancelation actions ALSO BEING PREVENTED FROM THIS DAY ON?

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

Can other people confirm that this is preventing weaving/cancelling for them? It's having zero effect for me. As above, though, why should the bow be a special case? Because it's the only viable ranged stamina option and we just can't have that?

Further testing for me on some bigger prey has shown no bow dps nerf but I haven't tested PvP yet. Things always work differently there. The ability for people to stack health a little higher might be the reason some of those DKs have got away if they were prepared for the update (I'm certainly not).

Tsute · August 2014

It's looking like an animation bug. Something to do with the new fast weapon swapping. I'm trying to fire my bow and my weapon swap got flipped, so I'm performing bow animations with my axe/shield, and melee animations with my bow.

StormbrookThunderb · August 2014

TheBull wrote: »

-Bow
The heavy attack animation now plays fully when you have a bow equipped, even if it’s only charged for a short amount of time.

Just what stam builds need. Good thing respec cost has been cut... It's like Wheeler and his DK got killed once and he's making sure that will never happen again...

No. Because bows have been nerved so many times now it's almost not worth using. In fact I've had to switch to two handers and those were just nerved and the only other choice is using my fist. Because those have more damage. It's sad but true or use a staff for a night blade.They slightly fixed the animation. I've been using a bow for awhile. It now forces you to draw 2/3'ds back. But the whole shoot arrow then poison arrow is possible and without it no one would use the bow because it would become so useless. They've also made it harder to aim fire hit targets. You can no longer shoot targets more then 35 meters away or 114.29 feet. Which isn't that far. It's 38/100 of a football field. Now when's the last time you shot an arrow less then that far? Read the dev notes.

Oh and anyone ever see David Anderson? Bows can be quick shot faster then a gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zGnxeSbb3g

ferzalrwb17_ESO · August 2014

They've also nerfed the eagle eye set to give a 3m range increase. Why? I think they just pull numbers out of their behind in order to pad out changes. This was already an expensive trade-off for someone looking to specialise in the bow with dubious rewards. Why make it that little bit less attractive? Why not just remove it all together.