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Econ was broken hopefully they've fixed it?
When I say this people say I am a downer. They say I'm someone pessimistic. But seriously. When I post stuff for NORMAL price. no one buys it for the full month. It's odd. I post a stack of matts. I go and check it out. Aparently all matts are the SAME price. I.E. A stack of iron = a stack of voidstone. But a stack of voidstone is so much harder to get. There's only a few places you can get a stack of voidstone. The veteran zone. There's only 3 spots in Tamriel.
The other issues are that gold farmers (not to sell.) simply save gold. Then they offer you 725 for something that should be 7250. They somehow resell it and say it's worth the 7250 for your random assortment of runestones. As the rich players get richer, the players with just a handful of goods get poorer. Unless you go gold farm but then your investment is static because they've somehow CORNERED the market on all those goods. I thought by getting to lvl 50 provisions I would at least make something. But no one buys food.
Do you think the new guild sales will improve the economy? How will they get rid of the massive wealth distribution?
The other issues are that gold farmers (not to sell.) simply save gold. Then they offer you 725 for something that should be 7250. They somehow resell it and say it's worth the 7250 for your random assortment of runestones. As the rich players get richer, the players with just a handful of goods get poorer. Unless you go gold farm but then your investment is static because they've somehow CORNERED the market on all those goods. I thought by getting to lvl 50 provisions I would at least make something. But no one buys food.
Do you think the new guild sales will improve the economy? How will they get rid of the massive wealth distribution?
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Probitas✭✭✭The only way to fix the economy is open it up to proper competition among players, and the only way that can happen is to create an open market all can access.
It would seem the economy is broken because Z wants it to be. And that is likely due to future monetization of all these things in an online store. People may have called you a downer, they're likely to call me worse for what I just posted.Edited by Probitas on August 4, 2014 3:18PM2 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not sure what you are complaining about really. Just sounds like commerce. It's impossible to corner the market with guild stores as they are, and it's actually easier for me to get vr12 materials than otherwise. Sell raw materials if you want them to move.
Also gold improvement stuff and kuta, that always sells. Got 100k selling all the stuff I saved up.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭moan for what? This isn't something exclusive to eso.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭You always have all you need by simply gathering, doing dailies and vendoring stuff. Seriously what do you need all that money for when you can just go out there and get anything you need yourself quite easily?2 -
Probitas✭✭✭Using non-economic examples that avoid the economy in game is not helpful to this discussion.
The simple fact is the economy in the game isn't even as good as the one in EVE. Everyone has access to that one. In this game, your market is quite limited unless you want to use your game time spamming your items in chat and hoping someone buys it. And all that does is *** people off since there is no trade chat, and so you end up on ignore lists.
Quite simply, we don't have a real economy at all. What we got is a bastardized version of one that seems more like an afterthought. Or it's working as intended as they have something more revenue based for their stream in the future.2 -
nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The thing is, how the game is designed you don't NEED a full economy!1 -
Wizzo91✭✭✭✭✭I like the idea of an official trading hub. Maybe an island or town, accessible to every player.
I also like the idea with the guild stalls but they shouldn't be spread out over the map like that. Just one market like mentioned above.Edited by Wizzo91 on August 4, 2014 3:39PM[EU]
Wizzo - Stamina DK - 50 - DC
Wizzox - Magicka NB - 50 - DC
Vilest Wizz - Magicka Sorc - 50 - DC
Wiser Wizz - Magicka NB - 50 - DC
Wizzo X - Magicka NB - 50 - AD
In Rainbows - Stam Sorc - 50 - AD
Fake Plastic Tree - Stamplar - 50 - EP
6XX CP0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How can the market be cornered in anything when the loot drops are random? What some one else has in their inventory has no effect on my inventory or ability to get another one.
Besides, I have never bought anything in this game other than, well anything really. I bought some repair kits, never used them. I bought some food ingredients once to use up some other mats. But that was from Vendors and they will sell me all that I want.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
UPrime✭✭✭✭If they had an global market, it would become a gatherer's market like in other games. I hate that. Because gathering is easy, and selling is hard, this is a crafter's market right now. And you don't have a huge race to the bottom where you're selling stuff at below cost to match the other guys that can't do math.0 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭IMO a stack of iron does equal a stack of voidstone. They are both just as easy to obtain. Just because one is VR mat makes little difference to me since I cannot use it until I get to VR level anyway. So the price of a stack of mat is basically charging for the convenience of not having to collect it myself (and collecting voidstone is about as easy as collecting iron).
But having said all that... I don't buy mats from other people anyway as it is so easy to obtain myself. Same for crafted items - it's easy for me to make so I don't buy from others. The ONLY exception are enchantments - that craft is so time consuming to level I might consider buying enchants from someone.Edited by OrangeTheCat on August 4, 2014 4:08PM1 -
Probitas✭✭✭Where do crafters go to sell their armor, weapons and other items? I'd like to know, since all I can find is a guild store with a very limited market, or the chat. Neither of those is what I would call a market, and isn't even up to par for most MMOs.
I have yet to read a valid counter point that would solidly explain why we don't need an open market in this game, and I will explicitly state it has to be a workable open market, not some spamming in chat.0 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭I like the idea of an official trading hub. Maybe an island or town, accessible to every player.
I also like the idea with the guild stalls but they shouldn't be spread out over the map like that. Just one market like mentioned above.
(*) With all the kavetching about TESO economy/guild stores etc., I'm curious why no group/people's etc haven't just picked a hub and started up their 'own' market...a la EC in the days of yore... (*)
Player content ya know!
Edited by Anastasia on August 4, 2014 6:00PM0 -
arena25✭✭✭✭✭In the case of gold farmers offering 725 for something that should be 7250, he's obviously trying to con you. Report them asap.If you can't handle the heat...stay out of the kitchen!1 -
aleister✭✭✭✭The only way to fix the economy is open it up to proper competition among players, and the only way that can happen is to create an open market all can access.
It would seem the economy is broken because Z wants it to be. And that is likely due to future monetization of all these things in an online store. People may have called you a downer, they're likely to call me worse for what I just posted.
I think you may be getting close to the truth here. The current system seems intentionally broken and instead of fixing it, they've gone out of their way to double-down on it.1 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭StormbrookThunderb wrote: »When I say this people say I am a downer. They say I'm someone pessimistic. But seriously. When I post stuff for NORMAL price. no one buys it for the full month. It's odd. I post a stack of matts. I go and check it out. Aparently all matts are the SAME price. I.E. A stack of iron = a stack of voidstone. But a stack of voidstone is so much harder to get. There's only a few places you can get a stack of voidstone. The veteran zone. There's only 3 spots in Tamriel.
The other issues are that gold farmers (not to sell.) simply save gold. Then they offer you 725 for something that should be 7250. They somehow resell it and say it's worth the 7250 for your random assortment of runestones. As the rich players get richer, the players with just a handful of goods get poorer. Unless you go gold farm but then your investment is static because they've somehow CORNERED the market on all those goods. I thought by getting to lvl 50 provisions I would at least make something. But no one buys food.
Do you think the new guild sales will improve the economy? How will they get rid of the massive wealth distribution?
Crafters buy raw resources to refine for improvement materials. The fact that improvement materials can be gained from any raw resource (i.e you can get your legendary temper just as easily from iron as you can from voidstone), means lower level materials hold their price.
This isn't a broken economy, it is genius from Zen. You want to make a living mining ore at L3? Go do it.
There is nothing worse in a MMO than when the longer-standing community's buying power so far outstrips the new player's buying power, that the new player is never financially viable. This ain't happening here.1 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Econ won't be fixed, if anything the Gold Seller market just became dominant. There is no auction house to facilitate trade to keep prices normal. Guilds will get into bidding wars over the Kiosks and that will cause them to raise prices to pay for that. Then the only way to afford anything will be to use Gold Sellers.
In many MMO's without Auction Houses, Gold Sellers just buy up all items creating a Supply Drought, then re-sell everything at a ridiculous overpriced markup, and they tag the whole economy. This ensures the only people who can advance through Commerce are people who buy their gold.
Within; Without.1 -
NukeAllTheThings✭✭✭✭✭Econ won't be fixed, if anything the Gold Seller market just became dominant. There is no auction house to facilitate trade to keep prices normal. Guilds will get into bidding wars over the Kiosks and that will cause them to raise prices to pay for that. Then the only way to afford anything will be to use Gold Sellers.
In many MMO's without Auction Houses, Gold Sellers just buy up all items creating a Supply Drought, then re-sell everything at a ridiculous overpriced markup, and they tag the whole economy. This ensures the only people who can advance through Commerce are people who buy their gold.
They can raise their prices all they want, it only means my cheap prices will sell faster. I will have to hustle a little more but I can ALWAYS beat an inflated price because my only investment is time. I don't have to factor in mat costs, guild store costs, listing fees, transaction costs etc because I can craft everything they can and I can loot/farm every item and mat they can. I am really hoping that the guild kiosk prices are through the roof because I will make a killing.
"it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days." - Matt Firor1 -
Probitas✭✭✭If guilds have to bid to put up a public front, and that causes increased costs commensurate with that, that would tend to mean that the 'cut' they take from sales increases, meaning being in a guild only really benefits the guild as a whole, and there is no individual benefit from even that anymore.
Sounds to me like they just want to protect someone, just wish I knew who that was, cause it's not the players. If it is, it's a rather small subset of players.2 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭I have yet to read a valid counter point that would solidly explain why we don't need an open market in this game, and I will explicitly state it has to be a workable open market, not some spamming in chat.
Because it would result in a functioning economy, something that ZoS apparently doesn't want. (Though, curiously, *their* reason for no auction house type deal is because it would somehow break the economy in a game this bug with their mega servers. Apparently their definition of a functioning economy and everybody elses is pretty much opposite each other.)
Achievements Suck1 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭FYI to everyone requesting a trader's chat or a hub, the last and first zones of your faction are what you are looking for. First zone (auridon for AD) is more people trying to rip newbies off but you might get newbies selling some things you want in the mix, last zone (reaper's march for AD) is exactly like EC tunnel. Most people chill in rawl'kha and advertise over zone.
I would like to see a zonewide trade channel so that I didn't have to also listen to zone personally, but nothing further than zone wide.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
Has anyone actually went out and farmed for iron? Iron is worth more then VB because more people can use it thus you make more money. But has anyone actually tried to go out and collect massive amounts of ore? Last time I tried it's like 25 minutes for a stack of 100 which is worth about 1200 at the maximum price. Maybe Simple math 100/25 minutes is 4 per minute which 1200/100 = 12 12 gp over blocks /4 gp per block yields 3gp per minute. Simple physics conversion.
For every minute you are getting 3 gold. It's faster to go farm enemies which give you 1 gold +some amount of xp +loot random loot drops.Edited by StormbrookThunderb on August 4, 2014 8:22PM1