A Hypothetical Solution to the Dilemma of Overly Powerful Magicka Builds
Targolak
✭✭✭
My first thread on the forums. I didn't find it appropriate to classify this as either Alliance War or PvE discussion, as the topic affects the whole game, not only one or the other.
Right, so, I guess we all can agree that Magicka builds are more powerful than Stamina builds.
I've spent days and weeks reading multiple views of "why," and many touch reasons like the sheer strength of Magicka abilities, the availability and thus diversity of Magicka abilities, how Ultimate abilities mainly scale with Magicka, and my personal favourite and probably the most accurate view, how Stamina is used for both offense and survival.
That last point there shall be my primary focus in this thread.
Without (much) further babbling, I present my hypothetical (can't say "theoretical" as I haven't made calculations about it) solution:
Give Magicka the same attribute of reducing incoming damage as Stamina.
In a way, the player's Stamina pool represents the character's physical exhaustion, and thus, logically, Magicka pool represents the character's mental exhaustion.
So why not take this a step further and make Magicka builds consume an amount of Magicka proportional to the amount of Stamina consumed when blocking magical attacks, sort of as a "willpower" effect? Probably a bit more than what Stamina blocking uses, seeing that Stamina is used for the constant block effect's sustenance, bashing & interrupting, sprinting, sneaking and rofl-dodging in addition to the normal ability usage.
-
Would this make restoration staves overpowered?
Not necessarily, as blocking's consumption of Magicka would only be triggered from attacks whose types are "Magic" or any of the elemental forms of damage (Fire, Ice, Shock). As such, a resto staff user could be handled relatively easily (not accounting for player skill) by a melee player using Stamina-based skills, as the resto staff user's abilities (assuming he's running a full Magicka build) would deplete the physical opponent's Magicka if blocked.
In PvE environment, this would probably have little effect if the spell-using hostiles were not focusing on the healer - but a larger impact on the whole PvE environment would probably be caused by the requirement of physical players taking down the spellcasting hostiles and spellcasters the physical hostiles. More about this later.
Would this make Stamina-based builds overpowered?
I'll say I "doubt" this, as the system I propose would, optimally, promote a more diverse attribute layout, with Magicka being effective against Magicka-users, depleting from their offensive potential -if- blocked, while similarly, Stamina would be effective against Stamina builds.
Would this make Magicka-based builds underpowered?
As with Stamina's OPness, I "doubt" this, as the system would, again, optimally promote a more diverse attribute layout.
-
This system would also make the common "Impulse spam" I see people having a problem with less useful, as you could repel the method of running into a crowd, blocking and spamming Impulse, simply by using magical abilities and thus depleting his Magicka pool bit by bit.
In PvE, this would promote a different approach to a variety of situations.
As one example, if your healer was attacked by a pack of melee hostiles, he would have to hold down block while waiting for his saviours, as usual. However, if a magic-using hostile joined the fight, someone should focus on that one asap - even though the bigger threat seems to be that big pack of hostiles after your healer. But if your healer is forced to block and that magic-using hostile is pummeling him, his own survivability is weakened because of the lower Magicka regeneration due to the blocking mechanism.
Abilities with spell reflection, damage absorption shield and other similar "useful utility" effects would probably become more common, both in PvP and PvE, as they would provide alternate means to reduce the need to block and thus lose your valuable resources.
For example, a magic-user could apply a spell reflection spell when facing a magic-using foe, thus eliminating the possibility of having Magicka loss if some melee hostile takes his attention away for a moment and forcing him to turtle up for a moment. Or alternatively, he could apply a dmg absorption shield if a physical fellow begins pummeling him and then keep fighting the enemy magic-user.
So to end the post, I ask this (rhetorical) question: Should your Magicka pool be nothing but a "mana pool" from other MMO games, where it has no impact on the gameplay experience past dictating your ability usage, or couldn't it be a fluid, interactive resource pool like its "underpowered" counterpart?
---
The main post ends here. Disclaimers and notes, reading optional but I would personally prefer if you did:
I do not claim that the solution is perfect; It would require some more work and brainstorming to be effective. Nor do I claim to be an extremely good (would say "pro," but I don't know anyone who plays games for a living) player, but I'm suggesting this with the interest of a more enjoyable, level playing field.
Constructive criticism, especially from skilled and long-term PvE and PvP players, would be appreciated, as I cannot claim to have played the endgame content as long as they have, and thus may lack a certain point of view they've acquired through their experience. So if people can point out major errors in my thesis or find overwhelming inconveniences caused by such a system, I would appreciate constructive responses.
Also, a sneaky word to the forum moderators: In case this post needs a relocation, feel free to do so. If you've read this and are considering moving the thread to another forum category, then I've (probably) had you gripped enough to have read the "solution", and thus may have a slight chance of having the devs consider it. Apologies for potential deception.
And last and least, I'm a non-native English user, so try not to get too distracted by my potential grammatical errors.
Ultimate TL;DR:
Cause Magicka to be consumed through blocking magical attacks, keep Stamina as the physical blocking pool, and thus make the two "polar opposites" of each other. Constructive criticism welcome.
Right, so, I guess we all can agree that Magicka builds are more powerful than Stamina builds.
I've spent days and weeks reading multiple views of "why," and many touch reasons like the sheer strength of Magicka abilities, the availability and thus diversity of Magicka abilities, how Ultimate abilities mainly scale with Magicka, and my personal favourite and probably the most accurate view, how Stamina is used for both offense and survival.
That last point there shall be my primary focus in this thread.
Without (much) further babbling, I present my hypothetical (can't say "theoretical" as I haven't made calculations about it) solution:
Give Magicka the same attribute of reducing incoming damage as Stamina.
In a way, the player's Stamina pool represents the character's physical exhaustion, and thus, logically, Magicka pool represents the character's mental exhaustion.
So why not take this a step further and make Magicka builds consume an amount of Magicka proportional to the amount of Stamina consumed when blocking magical attacks, sort of as a "willpower" effect? Probably a bit more than what Stamina blocking uses, seeing that Stamina is used for the constant block effect's sustenance, bashing & interrupting, sprinting, sneaking and rofl-dodging in addition to the normal ability usage.
-
Would this make restoration staves overpowered?
Not necessarily, as blocking's consumption of Magicka would only be triggered from attacks whose types are "Magic" or any of the elemental forms of damage (Fire, Ice, Shock). As such, a resto staff user could be handled relatively easily (not accounting for player skill) by a melee player using Stamina-based skills, as the resto staff user's abilities (assuming he's running a full Magicka build) would deplete the physical opponent's Magicka if blocked.
In PvE environment, this would probably have little effect if the spell-using hostiles were not focusing on the healer - but a larger impact on the whole PvE environment would probably be caused by the requirement of physical players taking down the spellcasting hostiles and spellcasters the physical hostiles. More about this later.
Would this make Stamina-based builds overpowered?
I'll say I "doubt" this, as the system I propose would, optimally, promote a more diverse attribute layout, with Magicka being effective against Magicka-users, depleting from their offensive potential -if- blocked, while similarly, Stamina would be effective against Stamina builds.
Would this make Magicka-based builds underpowered?
As with Stamina's OPness, I "doubt" this, as the system would, again, optimally promote a more diverse attribute layout.
-
This system would also make the common "Impulse spam" I see people having a problem with less useful, as you could repel the method of running into a crowd, blocking and spamming Impulse, simply by using magical abilities and thus depleting his Magicka pool bit by bit.
In PvE, this would promote a different approach to a variety of situations.
As one example, if your healer was attacked by a pack of melee hostiles, he would have to hold down block while waiting for his saviours, as usual. However, if a magic-using hostile joined the fight, someone should focus on that one asap - even though the bigger threat seems to be that big pack of hostiles after your healer. But if your healer is forced to block and that magic-using hostile is pummeling him, his own survivability is weakened because of the lower Magicka regeneration due to the blocking mechanism.
Abilities with spell reflection, damage absorption shield and other similar "useful utility" effects would probably become more common, both in PvP and PvE, as they would provide alternate means to reduce the need to block and thus lose your valuable resources.
For example, a magic-user could apply a spell reflection spell when facing a magic-using foe, thus eliminating the possibility of having Magicka loss if some melee hostile takes his attention away for a moment and forcing him to turtle up for a moment. Or alternatively, he could apply a dmg absorption shield if a physical fellow begins pummeling him and then keep fighting the enemy magic-user.
So to end the post, I ask this (rhetorical) question: Should your Magicka pool be nothing but a "mana pool" from other MMO games, where it has no impact on the gameplay experience past dictating your ability usage, or couldn't it be a fluid, interactive resource pool like its "underpowered" counterpart?
---
The main post ends here. Disclaimers and notes, reading optional but I would personally prefer if you did:
I do not claim that the solution is perfect; It would require some more work and brainstorming to be effective. Nor do I claim to be an extremely good (would say "pro," but I don't know anyone who plays games for a living) player, but I'm suggesting this with the interest of a more enjoyable, level playing field.
Constructive criticism, especially from skilled and long-term PvE and PvP players, would be appreciated, as I cannot claim to have played the endgame content as long as they have, and thus may lack a certain point of view they've acquired through their experience. So if people can point out major errors in my thesis or find overwhelming inconveniences caused by such a system, I would appreciate constructive responses.
Also, a sneaky word to the forum moderators: In case this post needs a relocation, feel free to do so. If you've read this and are considering moving the thread to another forum category, then I've (probably) had you gripped enough to have read the "solution", and thus may have a slight chance of having the devs consider it. Apologies for potential deception.
And last and least, I'm a non-native English user, so try not to get too distracted by my potential grammatical errors.
Ultimate TL;DR:
Cause Magicka to be consumed through blocking magical attacks, keep Stamina as the physical blocking pool, and thus make the two "polar opposites" of each other. Constructive criticism welcome.
"These boots are meant for walking, and that's just what they'll do."
4
-
Liquid_Time✭✭✭✭✭Glad you took a stab at it.
¸.•¨)
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.•` Liquid_Time'*-.¸.-•-.¸_¸.-•-.¸_¸.-•-.¸_¸.-•-.¸_¸.-•-.¸_¸.-••¤
╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
IGN: Liquid Past || Rank: V14 || Class: Nightblade || World Skill: Vampire
╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════╝0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think part of the balancing can be achieved by changing the characteristics of the armor types. Light armor is currently too good with all the armor buffs available.
Light armor should offer virtually no protection vs weapons and stamina skills. Skills like bound armor should only partly alleviate that penalty. Get rid of Annulment and Spell Warding and reduce it's AF significantly, if not more than significantly.
Medium armor at the moment seems OK.
Heavy armor should offer all the defense bonuses including vs spells, and more than just 1% per skill point.
That's just a quick summary of what I have in mind for armor.4 -
AshySamurai✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Agree. Same thoughts from PTS.Ultimate TL;DR:
Cause Magicka to be consumed through blocking magical attacks, keep Stamina as the physical blocking pool, and thus make the two "polar opposites" of each other. Constructive criticism welcome.With blocking and balancing I like @Daethz idea(yep, let's return to the topic theme
).
Blocking Idea: Staffs should use a Magical Block that depletes Magicka, have a magical shield bubble pop up on the center of your staff while blocking.
Otherwise your measly wooden staff would snap in half from the first blade.
For adding - maybe if skill costs magika then blocking and maybe even break also cost magika.
Link to the PTS topic 6 Issues - Magika builds vs Stamina BuildsEdited by AshySamurai on August 3, 2014 2:30AMMake sweetrolls, not nerfs!1 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO.
You don't seem to get it, do you son. Learn 2 Play is law of the land.
Your "nerf" of Magicka Builds ruins Stamina Builds who block their own share of Magical Attacks, and no cannot cast use Magicka to respond.
Think about a Strike/Block/Counter of Paper/Rock/Scissors. By telling everyone to block Spells with Magicka, you are telling classes who rely on the backup of Magicka to supplement their Stamina Builds they cannot do that anymore, which wouldn't make them happy either.
Why do people like you always want to make the game less fun for others, instead of proposing things that can even the odds you just propose methods of ruining classes and builds for a significant part of the populace.
Within; Without.5 -
Targolak✭✭✭Whew, that nap sure dragged out long.
*clears throat*
---Your "nerf" of Magicka Builds ruins Stamina Builds who block their own share of Magical Attacks, and no cannot cast use Magicka to respond.
Think about a Strike/Block/Counter of Paper/Rock/Scissors. By telling everyone to block Spells with Magicka, you are telling classes who rely on the backup of Magicka to supplement their Stamina Builds they cannot do that anymore, which wouldn't make them happy either.
To the first paragraph, they "cannot" use Magicka only if they spend several moments blocking the attacks, not conserving their resources. If they just ran up to the magic-using foe or, in the case of bow-users, kept pummeling the foe from distance, they would receive no great penalty - and the penalty would hardly be as large as you make it out to be.
To the second paragraph, when -is- everyone happy? Never, as far as MMO games - or life for that matter - are concerned. The question is, what's less destructive to the gameplay enjoyment as a whole.
I heavily doubt they wouldn't be able to supplement their Stamina builds with Magicka, as builds that have been Magicka-centric have occasionally featured some Stamina abilities despite the resource's importance for survival. It would be no different here: Would you focus on defense from magic attacks or would you use the resource pool for offense, disregarding the ability to block spells?Why do people like you always want to make the game less fun for others, instead of proposing things that can even the odds you just propose methods of ruining classes and builds for a significant part of the populace.
Incorrect. "People like me" want to help the game evolve, to be more enjoyable to players. If the idea seems bad to you, fair enough, but could you, please, propose an alternative or at least offer suggestions on how to better it? At least I have an idea, whether you agree with it or not.
As a side note, I've been playing since last spring's beta sessions, just been halted by the VR grind and stuck at VR2 for the past few months. I would never propose anything I would have no idea about whatsoever.
---AshySamurai wrote: »With blocking and balancing I like @Daethz idea(yep, let's return to the topic theme ).
Blocking Idea: Staffs should use a Magical Block that depletes Magicka, have a magical shield bubble pop up on the center of your staff while blocking.
Otherwise your measly wooden staff would snap in half from the first blade.
For adding - maybe if skill costs magika then blocking and maybe even break also cost magika.
Link to the PTS topic 6 Issues - Magika builds vs Stamina Builds
Thanks for the link, Ashy! I did do a quick forum search to see if a topic existed about this one specific idea, but it seems I missed that one.
There are differences. While that version is more staff-oriented, I proposed an universal use for the Magicka pool.
As good Soloeus above me politely pointed out, making Magicka the universal spell dmg reduction resource could affect Stamina builds using Magicka abilities, but in the end, it would require testing to be sure. How have Magicka-focused builds been able to use Stamina abilities in the past, if having the resource pool deplete from simple blocking, disregarding the other functions, is truly such a hindrance?
I do somewhat agree with the idea proposed there, but it might potentially be too large of a nerf to the staff Magicka builds, making it "as bad" as the Stamina builds of the present.
Seeing that the "old" weapons still retained their old trait of relying on Stamina, the roles of staves and physical weapons would probably swap, making bow-users with Magicka abilities more common, while staff-users would probably focus on Stamina-using abilities, which would be completely perverse.
However, having Magicka as the universal spell blocking resource could make builds with both Magicka abilities and Stamina abilities more common, eliminating spellcasters' boon of being able to fully rely on their spell arsenal with no accountability. If they focused solely on Magicka, it would take away from their health and physical dmg resistance - and if physical builds focused completely on Stamina, they would have reduced spell defense potential.
Ideally, this would make hybrids more common. But that's only "ideally," as some abilities would require tweaks following such a change.
---Holycannoli wrote: »I think part of the balancing can be achieved by changing the characteristics of the armor types. Light armor is currently too good with all the armor buffs available.
Light armor should offer virtually no protection vs weapons and stamina skills. Skills like bound armor should only partly alleviate that penalty. Get rid of Annulment and Spell Warding and reduce it's AF significantly, if not more than significantly.
Medium armor at the moment seems OK.
Heavy armor should offer all the defense bonuses including vs spells, and more than just 1% per skill point.
That's just a quick summary of what I have in mind for armor.
A sound idea. I cannot say anything more about it right now, but I'll keep it in mind.
---
Not in the way envisioned, exactly. It takes away a small portion of your whole Magicka pool, sure, but I was talking about a more Stamina-like treatment to the whole Magicka pool.
There are no abilities in the game currently that cut away from your max Stamina, which could be considered good as Stamina performs so many other functions than just attacking or blocking - but if Magicka took its side of the blocking function, there would at least be a semblance of balance between the two resource pools.
---
I never claimed my idea to be perfect. Do keep the suggestions and arguments coming, I'll check the thread every once in a while."These boots are meant for walking, and that's just what they'll do."2 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Whew, that nap sure dragged out long.
*clears throat*
---Your "nerf" of Magicka Builds ruins Stamina Builds who block their own share of Magical Attacks, and no cannot cast use Magicka to respond.
Think about a Strike/Block/Counter of Paper/Rock/Scissors. By telling everyone to block Spells with Magicka, you are telling classes who rely on the backup of Magicka to supplement their Stamina Builds they cannot do that anymore, which wouldn't make them happy either.
To the first paragraph, they "cannot" use Magicka only if they spend several moments blocking the attacks, not conserving their resources. If they just ran up to the magic-using foe or, in the case of bow-users, kept pummeling the foe from distance, they would receive no great penalty - and the penalty would hardly be as large as you make it out to be.
To the second paragraph, when -is- everyone happy? Never, as far as MMO games - or life for that matter - are concerned. The question is, what's less destructive to the gameplay enjoyment as a whole.
I heavily doubt they wouldn't be able to supplement their Stamina builds with Magicka, as builds that have been Magicka-centric have occasionally featured some Stamina abilities despite the resource's importance for survival. It would be no different here: Would you focus on defense from magic attacks or would you use the resource pool for offense, disregarding the ability to block spells?Why do people like you always want to make the game less fun for others, instead of proposing things that can even the odds you just propose methods of ruining classes and builds for a significant part of the populace.
Incorrect. "People like me" want to help the game evolve, to be more enjoyable to players. If the idea seems bad to you, fair enough, but could you, please, propose an alternative or at least offer suggestions on how to better it? At least I have an idea, whether you agree with it or not.
As a side note, I've been playing since last spring's beta sessions, just been halted by the VR grind and stuck at VR2 for the past few months. I would never propose anything I would have no idea about whatsoever.
---AshySamurai wrote: »With blocking and balancing I like @Daethz idea(yep, let's return to the topic theme ).
Blocking Idea: Staffs should use a Magical Block that depletes Magicka, have a magical shield bubble pop up on the center of your staff while blocking.
Otherwise your measly wooden staff would snap in half from the first blade.
For adding - maybe if skill costs magika then blocking and maybe even break also cost magika.
Link to the PTS topic 6 Issues - Magika builds vs Stamina Builds
Thanks for the link, Ashy! I did do a quick forum search to see if a topic existed about this one specific idea, but it seems I missed that one.
There are differences. While that version is more staff-oriented, I proposed an universal use for the Magicka pool.
As good Soloeus above me politely pointed out, making Magicka the universal spell dmg reduction resource could affect Stamina builds using Magicka abilities, but in the end, it would require testing to be sure. How have Magicka-focused builds been able to use Stamina abilities in the past, if having the resource pool deplete from simple blocking, disregarding the other functions, is truly such a hindrance?
I do somewhat agree with the idea proposed there, but it might potentially be too large of a nerf to the staff Magicka builds, making it "as bad" as the Stamina builds of the present.
Seeing that the "old" weapons still retained their old trait of relying on Stamina, the roles of staves and physical weapons would probably swap, making bow-users with Magicka abilities more common, while staff-users would probably focus on Stamina-using abilities, which would be completely perverse.
However, having Magicka as the universal spell blocking resource could make builds with both Magicka abilities and Stamina abilities more common, eliminating spellcasters' boon of being able to fully rely on their spell arsenal with no accountability. If they focused solely on Magicka, it would take away from their health and physical dmg resistance - and if physical builds focused completely on Stamina, they would have reduced spell defense potential.
Ideally, this would make hybrids more common. But that's only "ideally," as some abilities would require tweaks following such a change.
---Holycannoli wrote: »I think part of the balancing can be achieved by changing the characteristics of the armor types. Light armor is currently too good with all the armor buffs available.
Light armor should offer virtually no protection vs weapons and stamina skills. Skills like bound armor should only partly alleviate that penalty. Get rid of Annulment and Spell Warding and reduce it's AF significantly, if not more than significantly.
Medium armor at the moment seems OK.
Heavy armor should offer all the defense bonuses including vs spells, and more than just 1% per skill point.
That's just a quick summary of what I have in mind for armor.
A sound idea. I cannot say anything more about it right now, but I'll keep it in mind.
---
Not in the way envisioned, exactly. It takes away a small portion of your whole Magicka pool, sure, but I was talking about a more Stamina-like treatment to the whole Magicka pool.
There are no abilities in the game currently that cut away from your max Stamina, which could be considered good as Stamina performs so many other functions than just attacking or blocking - but if Magicka took its side of the blocking function, there would at least be a semblance of balance between the two resource pools.
---
I never claimed my idea to be perfect. Do keep the suggestions and arguments coming, I'll check the thread every once in a while.
If you can't make everyone happy, avoid making everyone miserable by listening to the tyranny of the vocal minority.
Within; Without.3 -
Targolak✭✭✭If you can't make everyone happy, avoid making everyone miserable by listening to the tyranny of the vocal minority.
A fine idea, but sadly irrelevant to the topic itself. I'm not "crying" for a nerf to the Magicka builds. I'm trying to offer suggestions to solve the problem.
I think you've made your case pretty clear, so I ask you to just stop posting in the thread - unless you're able to offer detailed, constructive input relevant to the topic."These boots are meant for walking, and that's just what they'll do."0 -
Evarwyn✭✭✭One good idea I happened to hear, was make a secondary stamina bar, like you see with horses, that governs blocking/dodge/roll.1 -
Arthur_Spoonfondle✭✭✭✭
You say you are not " "crying" for a nerf to the Magicka builds," but you have made a fine job of making it look like you are. Your main suggestion about magicka use would not only penalise magicka builds but, also builds which use both stamina and magicka.A fine idea, but sadly irrelevant to the topic itself. I'm not "crying" for a nerf to the Magicka builds. I'm trying to offer suggestions to solve the problem.
I think you've made your case pretty clear, so I ask you to just stop posting in the thread - unless you're able to offer detailed, constructive input relevant to the topic.
My nightblade khajiit archer uses four stamina abilities and one magicka ability which gives him a little healing. Your suggestion and the limitations it would impose, would ruin that character and those of many others, as well as nerfing every pure magicka user. The only benefit I can see is that it would give stamina only builds an edge in PVP.
PS, if you don't like your ideas being criticised, don't post them in a public forum.Edited by Arthur_Spoonfondle on August 3, 2014 3:04PM1 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭If you can't make everyone happy, avoid making everyone miserable by listening to the tyranny of the vocal minority.
A fine idea, but sadly irrelevant to the topic itself. I'm not "crying" for a nerf to the Magicka builds. I'm trying to offer suggestions to solve the problem.
I think you've made your case pretty clear, so I ask you to just stop posting in the thread - unless you're able to offer detailed, constructive input relevant to the topic.
Of course it wasn't irrelevant. Magicka 'builds' don't have a problem that needs solving. Though I admit to having sympathy with the school of thought that attempting to make builds from attributes is what is actually irrelevant.
Anyway, to reiterate, you won't make something more fun by reducing the fun of something else. The combat is a relatively slow learning curve already, Zen won't win any favours if they suddenly decided it was going to be changed 5 months in.
And you won't win yourself any favours by asking people not to post in the thread, simply because they are against your suggested 'solution'.0 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭i don't support any more nerf to anything.
Instead, I suggest:
Combine stamina and magicka into one resource!0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i don't support any more nerf to anything.
Instead, I suggest:
Combine stamina and magicka into one resource!
God no.
I use both, but my Templar chews through Magicka like noone's business, if you combine the two, then my weapon skills are then useless (I use one/two to keep my Templar alive whle his magicka replenishes against bosses).
I also use this for my Dragonknight, but not to the same degree.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Targolak✭✭✭One good idea I happened to hear, was make a secondary stamina bar, like you see with horses, that governs blocking/dodge/roll.
It seems a good idea, indeed, and it could potentially work, but in the end, it would not be much different from making every single in-game Stamina-based action based off stamina and dedicate Magicka solely for ability usage. Sure, you would have two pools to draw power from, which would add complexity to the resource management, so it wouldn't just be managing that one pool of resources.
But as a fellow with past gaming experience of MMOs and Elder Scrolls games both, I'll have to pull a pretty cheap, albeit valid, card:
"It would not be Elder Scrolls enough."
In the older Elder Scrolls games Magicka didn't regenerate on its own; TESIV: Oblivion was actually the first one to implement such a system. TESV: Skyrim added a couple new purposes for your Stamina pool other than just dictating your ability to keep your melee swings effective.
It's just my view, though, and -I- think the game should in most cases (apart from horsies and werewoofs, of course) use the old Elder Scrolls resource format. The question, to me, is more about how to make the current system fun and promote intelligent and adaptable gameplay without becoming -too- punishing to the newer and less skilled players.
Still, if a fourth resource pool was deemed necessary, I could live with it. It just would be a large step away from "tradition".
What I want is, in the end, insignificant.
---Of course it wasn't irrelevant. Magicka 'builds' don't have a problem that needs solving. Though I admit to having sympathy with the school of thought that attempting to make builds from attributes is what is actually irrelevant.
I was speaking of mentioning "the tyranny of vocal minorities" being irrelevant, not the point he was making in his earlier post.Anyway, to reiterate, you won't make something more fun by reducing the fun of something else. The combat is a relatively slow learning curve already, Zen won't win any favours if they suddenly decided it was going to be changed 5 months in.
A fair point, and one I'll heed.And you won't win yourself any favours by asking people not to post in the thread, simply because they are against your suggested 'solution'.
If I was fishing for favours, I would indeed be crying about a nerf to something. But I am not. I simply didn't find mr Soloeus's uncalled-for ad hominem response necessary.
---Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »You say you are not " "crying" for a nerf to the Magicka builds," but you have made a fine job of making it look like you are.
Monsters exist where people want to see them.Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »Your main suggestion about magicka use would not only penalise magicka builds but, also builds which use both stamina and magicka.
My nightblade khajiit archer uses four stamina abilities and one magicka ability which gives him a little healing. Your suggestion and the limitations it would impose, would ruin that character and those of many others, as well as nerfing every pure magicka user. The only benefit I can see is that it would give stamina only builds an edge in PVP.
The change would hardly be as major as you make it out to be. It would function only while blocking, not passively and all the time as a constant Magicka drain. And I also suggested for abilities already producing similar effects to further complement the system, reducing the need for blocking.
Also, my suggestion would not grant Stamina builds any overwhelming edges, as going full-Stamina would make them more susceptible to magical attacks due to a smaller Magicka pool. A more even stat layout could become more common, as you would need both pools for active damage mitigation, not only one.
Still, I don't claim it to be a perfect suggestion. MMO players are funny in that way you never know how they beat the probabilities.Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »PS, if you don't like your ideas being criticised, don't post them in a public forum.
Read my last response to KariTR. Perhaps to add: I can handle all kinds of criticism, so long as it's polite. Like you and KariTR's: Even if it doesn't outwardly seem like it, I -am- considering your claims. Me "being defensive" is just a placeholder until I've managed to give more thought to your replies, after which odds are my view may be changed altogether. I am just offering more food for the discussion to continue, fixing some misunderstandings that there may be.
---i don't support any more nerf to anything.
Instead, I suggest:
Combine stamina and magicka into one resource!
If all your actions were dictated by a single resource pool, you would indeed really have to think about your actions, as sprinting, blocking, rofling and interrupting as well as all your ability usage would take away from it.
While it would promote strategic gameplay, I think it would, in the end, be less beneficial to the game as a whole than having two separate pools of resources. The game would be "homogenized," to to say, and the variety of different builds would become void, as you would not have a choice between your areas of focus.
I think the game is very good as is, with the separate Magicka and Stamina pools. Slight changes are required in some fields, however - and Light Armor, as mentioned by Holycannoli in the second reply, would be one skill line that would require changes, Heavy Armor being another. I share his view that Medium Armor is fine as is."These boots are meant for walking, and that's just what they'll do."1 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i don't support any more nerf to anything.
Instead, I suggest:
Combine stamina and magicka into one resource!
And only have health and I guess power? No. I already don't like that Skyrim did away with all those individual skills and attributes and dumbed them down into magicka and stamina.
Damn, imagine how great ESO would be if it had Morrowind's skills and attributes (or Oblivion if it had the same system) instead of just magicka, health and stamina.1 -
Kalann_Pander✭✭✭Using magicka instead of stamina to block magicka-based attacks/skills seems like a good idea to me. It even makes sense ... using some of your own magickal energy to deflect an incoming magickal attack.
And also, I don't understand the degree of negative reactions to your proposal.
As soon as anyone proposes a change, some guys just can't help but to scream NERF !.
Err ... no. This one isn't.Opinions are like buttholes : Everybody has one, and they usually stink.
3 things to reduce stamina/magicka imbalance :
- Use magicka to block abilities costing magicka, instead of stamina.
- Add % damage reduction to heavy armor.
- Add block penetration to 2H.2