The official "I HATE PVP!" thread.

Phinix1 · August 2014

The main reason for me is probably the repetitive nature of it all. No story to break up the monotony, no scripted events of any depth, just show up and zerg, or graveyard attrition run, snipe kill, or be snipe killed, over and over and over again... I have never been into "Asian grind" type games for the same reason.

I honestly think the reason PVP attracts so many angry, combative, and self-important personality types (don't be offended, I don't mean YOU or even most PVP people, just many), is directly related to this fact.

In order to cope with the nerve-rattling frustration and monotony of it all, people "harden" themselves against it, which manifests psychologically as a combative and easily offended personality, with the sense of self-importance possibly being a direct subconscious attempt to "set themselves apart from the zerg" which by and large offers little in the way of in-game rewards to that end.

So it is an over-compensation of sorts. At least that is my take on it.

Overall I find it to be an exercise in aggression and futility, where nothing is ever really gained. Perhaps if they were to add more PVP specific rewards beyond cosmetic stuff that should never have been exclusively PVP that might change. Or PVP raid bosses that you don't HAVE to do the grindy style PVP to enjoy.

WoW did both of these with high success, including good PVP gear itemization.

Beyond that though, I don't know if there is anything at this point that could win me over to that camp. I have never enjoyed PVP and I doubt I ever will.

dietlime · August 2014

1-50 campaign please. I was promised a PvP game where people were scaled to a similar level, not one where certain individuals are scaled -much- higher than the rest.

PvP is unplayable, so I have nothing to say about it other than that. The fun I had in the beta was gone on the 2nd day by a V10.

Dekkameron · August 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

In order to cope with the nerve-rattling frustration and monotony of it all, people "harden" themselves against it, which manifests psychologically as a combative and easily offended personality, with the sense of self-importance possibly being a direct subconscious attempt to "set themselves apart from the zerg" which by and large offers little in the way of in-game rewards to that end.

So it is an over-compensation of sorts. At least that is my take on it.

I think i suffer from this myself to an extent.

Have you tried solo/with a friend stealth pvp? That's pretty fun, but you do end up frothing at the mouth like a mad person after doing it for too long.

Tonturri · August 2014

The only problem I have with it is the time it takes to find a fight. I don't care if I get wrecked...I'd rather have my face melted a couple times in a minute than spent 10min trying to find someone to do it.

Tabbycat · August 2014

I don't hate pvp. It just isn't my preferred thing to do. I did have fun with it during beta but I haven't really been motivated to do much beyond hunting down a few skyshards.

Katkon · August 2014

My personal belief is that many - not all, but many - of the people who hate PvP do so because they suck at PvP. And, they're often offended/agitated/angered when killed by a human player.

I was once one of these people. Until the start of ESO in fact. And now I love it, though I still suck.

So why do I love it? A number of reasons:

1. It's made me a much better, more effective PvE player. I quickly realized how crappy my build was in PvP against human players. After fine-tuning based on advice/vids/posts from PvPers I improved significantly in both PvP and PvE.

2. It's much more satisfying to take down a human player vs an NPC, especially when the opponent is much higher ranked/leveled. It feels like more of a challenge - most NPCs are easy. Too easy IMHO.

3. I quickly learned to put aside my anger at dying and simply chalk it up to experience. There is very, very little downside to dying in PvP - your armor doesn't degrade - so go there to practice (against other players). Not getting upset when killed by another player was the single biggest driver of my enjoyment in PvP. That coupled with the realization that you really will do better in PvP once you reach VR1 and beyond. Next time you PvP and die, I recommend you see the funny side of the death. I often laugh out loud when I'm face-stomped: I find it hilarious. And then just respawn and try again.

4. Unlike PvE, PvP is unpredictable - due to the human element. Sure, the map is static, but the unpredictable nature of human interaction and ensuing battles makes it exciting. At least to me.

MrBeatDown · August 2014

Eso's Current PvP is meh at best. Mindless zerg is not for me. It was all good and fun before they nerfed shield bash. Now its just trashy and I don't like the direction the pvp is taking with this game. Its pretty boring.

crislevin · August 2014

I don't hate pvp, I dislike how PvPers have been dictating the changes made to the game.

Ser Lobo · August 2014

I have a different view: way back when I started online gaming, in the late 90's, I was very young and unable to deal with other peoples personalities. I experienced many PK's in various games, including Ultima Online and EvE online, and campaigned often to have non-pvp options.

I joined the Marine Corps, learned how to take a joke and give one right back, learned that it's actually insecurity in who you are which makes you so sensitive to how others behave, and adopted a different view on life in general.

I started PvPing, and loved it. Some shooters, then into EvE online pirating, and then into various MMO's across the spectrum. I loved it. And I still do.

I'm still a hardcore roleplayer. I love stories and questlines. Hate grinding and min-maxing. Every character I make gets a backstory first, and I'll probably spend two hours in character generation.

One of the biggest things I learned, is that PvP is the ultimate form of multiplayer. It's cooperative from core to finale, because if there aren't at least two players, there is no PvP. PvPers require other players to play, on the sure basis of logic. If it wasn't for someone wanting to PvP, we wouldn't have anything to do.

As far as bad personalities go, most of us will make exceptions for game types we love, but every area has it's horrible examples. I don't enjoy raids because of the elitists that surface as the top performers, despite how much I do enjoy large organized PvE. But I make exceptions for hateful PvPers or know-it-all Roleplayers because I love those more than I hate the haters.

But if I'm being fair, I've run into the same amount of hateful players no matter how large or small the community. Except, maybe, in solo games. Well, even them too.

rekina · August 2014

Katkon wrote: »

My personal belief is that many - not all, but many - of the people who hate PvP do so because they suck at PvP. And, they're often offended/agitated/angered when killed by a human player.

I was once one of these people. Until the start of ESO in fact. And now I love it, though I still suck.

So why do I love it? A number of reasons:

1. It's made me a much better, more effective PvE player. I quickly realized how crappy my build was in PvP against human players. After fine-tuning based on advice/vids/posts from PvPers I improved significantly in both PvP and PvE.

2. It's much more satisfying to take down a human player vs an NPC, especially when the opponent is much higher ranked/leveled. It feels like more of a challenge - most NPCs are easy. Too easy IMHO.

3. I quickly learned to put aside my anger at dying and simply chalk it up to experience. There is very, very little downside to dying in PvP - your armor doesn't degrade - so go there to practice (against other players). Not getting upset when killed by another player was the single biggest driver of my enjoyment in PvP. That coupled with the realization that you really will do better in PvP once you reach VR1 and beyond. Next time you PvP and die, I recommend you see the funny side of the death. I often laugh out loud when I'm face-stomped: I find it hilarious. And then just respawn and try again.

4. Unlike PvE, PvP is unpredictable - due to the human element. Sure, the map is static, but the unpredictable nature of human interaction and ensuing battles makes it exciting. At least to me.

Only this guy in this thread is talking the truth, and will ever be the only guy.

For those who so say "hate PvP", good luck with that, but you will never be a better player than those who pvp specifically in small sized group(solo to 4 players tops). I'm sorry to say this, but this is just the truth.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO · August 2014

Katkon wrote: »

My personal belief is that many - not all, but many - of the people who hate PvP do so because they suck at PvP. And, they're often offended/agitated/angered when killed by a human player.

I was once one of these people. Until the start of ESO in fact. And now I love it, though I still suck.

So why do I love it? A number of reasons:

1. It's made me a much better, more effective PvE player. I quickly realized how crappy my build was in PvP against human players. After fine-tuning based on advice/vids/posts from PvPers I improved significantly in both PvP and PvE.

2. It's much more satisfying to take down a human player vs an NPC, especially when the opponent is much higher ranked/leveled. It feels like more of a challenge - most NPCs are easy. Too easy IMHO.

3. I quickly learned to put aside my anger at dying and simply chalk it up to experience. There is very, very little downside to dying in PvP - your armor doesn't degrade - so go there to practice (against other players). Not getting upset when killed by another player was the single biggest driver of my enjoyment in PvP. That coupled with the realization that you really will do better in PvP once you reach VR1 and beyond. Next time you PvP and die, I recommend you see the funny side of the death. I often laugh out loud when I'm face-stomped: I find it hilarious. And then just respawn and try again.

4. Unlike PvE, PvP is unpredictable - due to the human element. Sure, the map is static, but the unpredictable nature of human interaction and ensuing battles makes it exciting. At least to me.

MasterSpatula · August 2014

I don't understand hating PVP in this game. I've either had no interest in it or actively disliked it in just about every other context I've ever tried it, but this game makes me care about PVP. I feel like I'm fighting for something. I love all the roles in fighting for keeps: You can man siege engines, defend those manning siege engines, attack siege engines with engines of your own, or infiltrate the enemy line. You can zerg in as soon as the wall is down, hold back to be part of a second wave, or sneak in to be an "x-factor" in the fight. So many methods to achieve the same goal, and it feels like it means something when you win or lose.

I may not PVP that often, but I always enjoy myself when I do. The only other game I was able to say that about was SWG, and that was only in Deep Space PVP.

Orchish · August 2014

Katkon wrote: »

My personal belief is that many - not all, but many - of the people who hate PvP do so because they suck at PvP. And, they're often offended/agitated/angered when killed by a human player.

I was once one of these people. Until the start of ESO in fact. And now I love it, though I still suck.

So why do I love it? A number of reasons:

1. It's made me a much better, more effective PvE player. I quickly realized how crappy my build was in PvP against human players. After fine-tuning based on advice/vids/posts from PvPers I improved significantly in both PvP and PvE.

2. It's much more satisfying to take down a human player vs an NPC, especially when the opponent is much higher ranked/leveled. It feels like more of a challenge - most NPCs are easy. Too easy IMHO.

3. I quickly learned to put aside my anger at dying and simply chalk it up to experience. There is very, very little downside to dying in PvP - your armor doesn't degrade - so go there to practice (against other players). Not getting upset when killed by another player was the single biggest driver of my enjoyment in PvP. That coupled with the realization that you really will do better in PvP once you reach VR1 and beyond. Next time you PvP and die, I recommend you see the funny side of the death. I often laugh out loud when I'm face-stomped: I find it hilarious. And then just respawn and try again.

4. Unlike PvE, PvP is unpredictable - due to the human element. Sure, the map is static, but the unpredictable nature of human interaction and ensuing battles makes it exciting. At least to me.

Well said.

Grunim · August 2014

crislevin wrote: »

I don't hate pvp, I dislike how PvPers have been dictating the changes made to the game.

I hear this sentiment expressed in every game and conversely the PvPers can also say, "I dislike how PvEers have been dictating the changes made to the game".

As someone who enjoys both PvE and PvP, I believe that all styles of play should be a factor in changes made to the game.

Liquid_Time · August 2014

Personally.. I feel most players simply don't understand where to go or what to do when they enter Cyrodiil the first few times. Also the level difference + skill difference between themselves and experienced/veteran players adds to the frustration.

I have PvPed since level 45 and almost all of my EXP and Vet Points since then have been earned within Cyrodiil. With that being said... I am still learning new things and the more I learn the more enjoyment I am able to find within that zone.

Zergs are one of the most common group situations that new players seem to join. Simply because they are always being advertised and easy to join. I would not however base your PvP experience around that and that alone. There are so many other fighting situations you can put yourself into if that is not what you enjoy..

For Example:
If you are new to the PvP combat.. Try ganking player supply lines. This will usually give you the upper hand when engaging in a fight which equals a better chance to win despite your rank, skill, and gear. This will also put you in a 1v1 situation very frequently which will allow you to gain a bit of experience and enjoyment compared to zerg fights.

Logan9a · August 2014

In any game with gear, levels and classes I've never seen completely balanced PVP.

That aside, I'd also like to see war matter more than it does. One side or the other (or the other) wins eventually - and so what? A small bonus most people don't notice?

Whoopie.

Hopefully, this changes with the imperial city - but I have doubts.

badmojo · August 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Perhaps if they were to add more PVP specific rewards beyond cosmetic stuff that should never have been exclusively PVP that might change.

Yeah, they should add some gear sets that are only rewarded in PVP. Also, some skill lines tied to PVP would be nice, like an attacking and defending line. They could also give PVP players skill points when they level up their PVP rank. And finally, financially reward us for participating in the war when the campaign finishes.

Oh wait, that stuff is already in the game. What exactly did you want?

kijima · August 2014

I didn't think I'd like PvP anywhere near as much as I do. I really didn't think I would like it either.

Perhaps because I had little to no expectations before entering Cyrodiil for the first time, I guess it's the exact opposite to when someone talks up a move saying it's fantastic, then when you see it, you don't feel the same way, if anything the movie in question failed to live up to expectations... I hope that makes sense.

Either way, I love it now. I see it as 'end game' for me. I find myself using PvE just as a way to level up skills and nothing more. I've done the 1-50 thing, I've defeated Molag Bal and from there Caldwells silver and gold quests never really carried me with an addictive story line further. I do the quests, but I'm not drawn into the story line like I originally was with 1-50 content.

PvP to me involves good communication with your teammates to accomplish a goal, and the comradery in guild is fantastic. I've learned so much from other 'better' players than myself, It's overall made me a better player in both PvP and PvE. Further to that real strategy is required, a deeper understanding of the game if you will, at least that's what I think. And if grouping isn't your thing, and you want to 1v1, you can do that too. Plenty of ganking to be had in Cyrodiil.

Honestly, for me. I find myself logging into Cyrodiil first rather than PvE more times than not these days.

Samadhi · August 2014

Katkon wrote: »

...
3. I quickly learned to put aside my anger at dying and simply chalk it up to experience. There is very, very little downside to dying in PvP - your armor doesn't degrade - so go there to practice (against other players). Not getting upset when killed by another player was the single biggest driver of my enjoyment in PvP. That coupled with the realization that you really will do better in PvP once you reach VR1 and beyond. Next time you PvP and die, I recommend you see the funny side of the death. I often laugh out loud when I'm face-stomped: I find it hilarious. And then just respawn and try again.
...

I agree with this whole-heartedly.
PvE content really fosters some of my worst personality traits; the ease of facerolling generic NPC enemies leads also to a sense of entitlement and expectations to always have the game go my way. If I die in PvE I get bothered with myself because it chalks up to my stupidity, but I'll sometimes try and find ways to place blame on others (ie: "I wouldn't have died if my healer didn't suck" syndrome.)

PvP, by contrast, allows me to readily come to terms with my character's death. The combat consistently teaches me things and I respect PvP deaths as opportunities to figure out how to better control my character in combat circumstances. I view full accountability for my own deaths in PvP because I allowed myself to be outplayed by the other player.

Katkon wrote: »

...
4. Unlike PvE, PvP is unpredictable - due to the human element. Sure, the map is static, but the unpredictable nature of human interaction and ensuing battles makes it exciting. At least to me.

This is really one of the largest selling points to me.

Unlike PvE combat which is monotonous, repetitive, and grindy; PvP combat is engaging, fun, unique, and dynamic. Every encounter with an enemy player is interesting and provides me with a learning opportunity both in how they play character, and how I have to adjust my play in order to counter it.

It's really unfortunate that some players miss out on all the things PvP has to offer, but that's just the way it goes I suppose. It's very easy to inhibit oneself as a regressive reaction to something unfamiliar.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

The main reason for me is probably the repetitive nature of it all. No story to break up the monotony, no scripted events of any depth, just show up and zerg, or graveyard attrition run, snipe kill, or be snipe killed, over and over and over again... I have never been into "Asian grind" type games for the same reason.

I honestly think the reason PVP attracts so many angry, combative, and self-important personality types (don't be offended, I don't mean YOU or even most PVP people, just many), is directly related to this fact.

In order to cope with the nerve-rattling frustration and monotony of it all, people "harden" themselves against it, which manifests psychologically as a combative and easily offended personality, with the sense of self-importance possibly being a direct subconscious attempt to "set themselves apart from the zerg" which by and large offers little in the way of in-game rewards to that end.

So it is an over-compensation of sorts. At least that is my take on it.

Overall I find it to be an exercise in aggression and futility, where nothing is ever really gained. Perhaps if they were to add more PVP specific rewards beyond cosmetic stuff that should never have been exclusively PVP that might change. Or PVP raid bosses that you don't HAVE to do the grindy style PVP to enjoy.

WoW did both of these with high success, including good PVP gear itemization.

Beyond that though, I don't know if there is anything at this point that could win me over to that camp. I have never enjoyed PVP and I doubt I ever will.

To sum up:

I don't like dying and have projected my feelings and insecurities on to those that have killed me.

But if you give me phat lewts I'll sign up.

Akula · August 2014

PVErs come into PVP with a PVE mindset and playstyle, and then get thoroughly humbled and faceroll if they refuse to adapt. Its that simple, you have to change your mindset while you pvp. You cannot treat another player like some boss mob, they will roll right over you. The skills are different, yet each one can improve the other. The pver that refuses to accept the fact that he is not some god among men will do poorly in pvp. Getting humbled is a true pvp skill.

kijima · August 2014

Agreed.

If you meet a NB dual wield NPC you'll know what to expect, and you can prepare for counters before you start the fight when you roll your cursor across them. The same cannot be said for a player, you just never not what party tricks they have prepared for you.

Stx · August 2014

What exactly is the point of this thread? People enjoy PvP for the same reason people like FPS's or RTS's or any multiplayer really.. its competition and its fun fighting other players instead of scripted AI.

I find it odd that you consider player vs. player combat repetitive, yet apparently scripted fights vs. AI is not?

I loved the part where you insulted PvPers, then said "no offense".

How about this. If you dislike PvP, don't participate in it. You don't have to fight in Cyrodiil, and you don't have to fight murderers and thieves next patch. You can stand with the NPC's and watch.

Cyberdown · August 2014

Typically I go to full loot sandbox games for pvp...its just more fun when all my *** on the line and theres no respawn and run back rinse repeat.

Im here mostly for the PVE and TES stuffs...

With that said the very limited pvp ive participated in looks good. It is what I will do once I hit VR whatever and clear the main story.

I think what a lot of people want are consensual, fair, pvp where anyone have a solid chance to win...that's not what pvp is about...its about having fun with content controlled by other players.

I think most people on this thread are the people I use to ask in town in other games for a quick duel and they would take 50 minuets preparing...like it was some huge deal....

in a themepark game like this, pvp is more like an ever evolving raid where the raidboss is a bunch of other people...and coordinating the pvp is part of the fun.\

Now sandbox pvp in a full loot game...now that's a whole different beast, with emotions (because there is actual loss) diplomacy (no game set factions) and politics/propaganda....where a small "by chance" skirmish can erupt into a server war....now that is what I call pvp...games like this I think of it more of a mini game....a chance to be part of a coordinated group and see lots of splody things and whatnot.

In the end its just another themepark grind, and I don't use grind in a negative term. So really I just cant relate to the high emotions people have towards it...I just don't see the big deal with this content, or how people can actually hate it...

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · August 2014

I loved pvp on wow i would love it if they made the farms and stuff around the base some kind of limited mini pvp, in coming around to eso pvp, and in getting more creative in thinking of fun thinks to do, i think it will get better in time, especially with the justice system coming in and the imperial city, back all mugger, roof top snipers ect, but i also think they could make some smaller scale battlegrounds, i people say it takes to much away from crydill then i you could say that about the bounty system too. I miss structured pvp but in actually willing to wait and enjoy what's here for now, try to make ur own fun

nvsg · August 2014

agreed 1v1s will be the only thing I play screw this sieging ***

shiva7663 · August 2014

PvP would be great if it weren't for the fact that it attracts leet-speaking, corpse-humping power-gaming griefer munchkins like gnats to apple cider vinegar.

Snit · August 2014

You can't state that PvP attracts mostly people with various personality disorders, then follow it up with "... but I wish they'd just add better prizes!" That makes no sense at all.

If you want to learn to enjoy PvP, there's a simple three-step process:

Find a group of friends, or a guild and PvP with them. Don't solo. Solo ganking requires specific builds and more experience than you likely have
Be prepared to change your build and gearset away from PvE. For example, if you're a two-pet sorc in +crit gear, you'll need to change everything to compete
Don't sweat losing, getting ganked, getting ganked repeatedly, etc. PvP is all about unfair fights, just like actual war. If you want the E-Sport model WoW features, you're in the wrong place

It's a different sort of challenge, and mastering it is more difficult than any PvE content found in most MMO's. The hardest part is taking it well when you lose.

Snit · August 2014

shiva7663 wrote: »

PvP would be great if it weren't for the fact that it attracts leet-speaking, corpse-humping power-gaming griefer munchkins like gnats to apple cider vinegar.

Yeah -- that's MMO's, not PvP. They named it "Barrens Talk," not "Alterac Valley Speak" for a reason

Snit · August 2014

inspiral1 wrote: »

I loved pvp on wow i would love it if they made the farms and stuff around the base some kind of limited mini pvp

I agree. I love the massive RvR model here, too, but Cyrodil needs to be more small-group/ duo objectives. Zergs should not be the optimal formation.

Cyberdown · August 2014

shiva7663 wrote: »

PvP would be great if it weren't for the fact that it attracts leet-speaking, corpse-humping power-gaming griefer munchkins like gnats to apple cider vinegar.

Yeah you sound like a total peach yourself there...