Blocking vs Multiple Mobs
jesterstear
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Let's say you're fighting one mob. 20% of the time, he's doing a power attack. This means that 80% of the time, you are free to attack yourself, and don't need to waste stamina holding down block.
Now, assume there are two of them. You are only free to act normally if both mobs are doing normal attacks. In an AND situation like this, probabilities are multiplicative - 80% x 80% = 0.8 x 8.8 = 64% (0.64). Against three, you are only free to act 51% of the time.
SO -
1 Mob - blocking 20% of the time
2 Mobs - blocking 36% of the time
3 Mobs - blocking 49% of the time
This still underestimates the drain on your stamina however, because the number of attacks you block goes up with the number of mobs , too. Not only are you blocking the power attack, but also the normal attacks of the other mobs. So, if we multiply the number of mobs present, by the % of time spent blocking, we get a dimensionless number which nevertheless gives an idea of the relative rate of stamina drain fighting such a pack -
1 Mob = 20
2 Mobs = 72
3 Mobs = 147
Finally, I am under the impression that each hit blocked uses the same amount of stamina, whether it's a light attack from a mudcrab or a telegraphed axe swing of doom from a dungeon boss. If we assume that heavy attacks take twice as long to execute as normal hits, then we're taking even more stamina drain against multiple mobs from all the mobs doing white damage while we're blocking the heavy.
One of the game's big selling points versus normal MMOs is the interactivity of combat. Hit/Miss is not a dice roll. In a normal MMO, it's up to you to position yourself and choose the right skill rotation, but hit/miss, dps and survivability are determined by your stats, your gear choices. This game makes a big deal of how you can actively dodge these attacks, it's one of the first things to appear in the wailing prison tutorial and it comes up on every death recap screen.
However, when encountering packs of mobs, the best approach is not to play that game at all, aoe snare/knockdown/interrupt is the way to do it, or simply burn them down fast with an instant cast aoe before stamina runs out.
Now, assume there are two of them. You are only free to act normally if both mobs are doing normal attacks. In an AND situation like this, probabilities are multiplicative - 80% x 80% = 0.8 x 8.8 = 64% (0.64). Against three, you are only free to act 51% of the time.
SO -
1 Mob - blocking 20% of the time
2 Mobs - blocking 36% of the time
3 Mobs - blocking 49% of the time
This still underestimates the drain on your stamina however, because the number of attacks you block goes up with the number of mobs , too. Not only are you blocking the power attack, but also the normal attacks of the other mobs. So, if we multiply the number of mobs present, by the % of time spent blocking, we get a dimensionless number which nevertheless gives an idea of the relative rate of stamina drain fighting such a pack -
1 Mob = 20
2 Mobs = 72
3 Mobs = 147
Finally, I am under the impression that each hit blocked uses the same amount of stamina, whether it's a light attack from a mudcrab or a telegraphed axe swing of doom from a dungeon boss. If we assume that heavy attacks take twice as long to execute as normal hits, then we're taking even more stamina drain against multiple mobs from all the mobs doing white damage while we're blocking the heavy.
One of the game's big selling points versus normal MMOs is the interactivity of combat. Hit/Miss is not a dice roll. In a normal MMO, it's up to you to position yourself and choose the right skill rotation, but hit/miss, dps and survivability are determined by your stats, your gear choices. This game makes a big deal of how you can actively dodge these attacks, it's one of the first things to appear in the wailing prison tutorial and it comes up on every death recap screen.
However, when encountering packs of mobs, the best approach is not to play that game at all, aoe snare/knockdown/interrupt is the way to do it, or simply burn them down fast with an instant cast aoe before stamina runs out.
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Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shout out to Medium Armor Passives!! I stand in the middle of a Mob, hold block and use Abilities and never run out of Stamina before the fight is finished. You just can't do this with LA or HA as well. Maybe with an Imperial you can, as I have an Imp DK with HA and he never has any Stamina issues with blocking.Edited by Nestor on July 30, 2014 2:58PMEnjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"1 -
traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭HA Orc templar. I can stand in 4 mobs forever.
I'm tank specced though and have 2 block reduction ring glyphs.. also Sword and shield has block cost reduction in passives.. I also use a weapon glyph that does damage and drains STA, and have a group STA regen buff on my bar.
Add in I have the hist bark armor set (20% chance to doge any attack while blocking) and I usually regen sta pretty evenly as I fight. Drawback is if I dodge a heavy attack I don't block and stun them, but they do miss me.
So depending on your class and equipment choices you can block for a very long time, even in PVP vs. multiple people.0 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Vampire Witch solos + dungeons above her level. That's 8 - 10 man groups.
Blocking, interesting concept. Used it last on Manimarco, the health drain is brutal, not brutal enough though, he did not last long.
She cannot rely on health regeneration, she has little, armor is light but she does use her Clanfear.
Walks away at 100%. She is too busy frying stuff to have time to block. She is very mobile though.
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Xeres14✭✭✭Medium armor passives are rather good. However there's been times I'll fight a pack of 3 mobs and each one will do their power attack roughly the same time. So I block all 3 and - wait, where'd my stamina go?
Using stamina for sprinting and blocking and weapon skills is just a bad idea. It needs to be changed.1 -
jesterstear✭✭✭traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »HA Orc templar. I can stand in 4 mobs forever.
I'm tank specced though and have 2 block reduction ring glyphs.. also Sword and shield has block cost reduction in passives.. I also use a weapon glyph that does damage and drains STA, and have a group STA regen buff on my bar.
Add in I have the hist bark armor set (20% chance to doge any attack while blocking) and I usually regen sta pretty evenly as I fight. Drawback is if I dodge a heavy attack I don't block and stun them, but they do miss me.
So depending on your class and equipment choices you can block for a very long time, even in PVP vs. multiple people.
I've been looking at options to improve Stamina.
Up to VR2 I was in 5 H 2 L, then started using the Warlock set 5L 2H .
The extra power availability greatly improved my ability to self heal, which more than made up for the loss of armour. But now that they have fixed the power return proc on my self heal, I could revisit heavy armour. Still, we're only talking 20% here.
In heavy armour, I won't be able to spam puncturing sweep (the aedric spear dps skill) like I can now, so the fight will last longer. I'll be using it more to interrupt casters, and the rest of the time be spamming light attack. So, fights will last longer.
I currently have a necklace with Magicka regen, a ring with Health Regen, and a ring with Stamina regen. Thanks to passives, Magicka and Health are in the softcap, Stamina is just under it. The problem is, when I tried adding a second Stamina regen ring for an extra +12, my STA regen only went up by 6 thanks to the cap.
So, we're looking at either a ring that reduces feat cost or one that reduces block cost. However, the only active skills that use Stamina is Ransack, which needs refresh every 12 seconds for the armour buff, as most of it is going on blocking, what I really need is the block cost ring.
Finally, I've crafted a sword and put on a stamina drain enchant, should help a bit..
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Brasseurfb16_ESO✭✭✭✭jesterstear wrote: »snip...
Didn't continue to read the calculations sinds some of the values just didn't made any sense and it just can't be calculated in your post unless you take specific situations with know critters and calculate it with their rotation into a strict and consecutive queu.
So those value you are showing up could be very different depending to the opponents you are facing.jesterstear wrote: »Finally, I am under the impression that each hit blocked uses the same amount of stamina, whether it's a light attack from a mudcrab or a telegraphed axe swing of doom from a dungeon boss. If we assume that heavy attacks take twice as long to execute as normal hits, then we're taking even more stamina drain against multiple mobs from all the mobs doing white damage while we're blocking the heavy.
The base cost of blocking is if I remember correctly 15% of your base stamina, so at VR1 sinds you have 1080 base stamina value, block cost should cost around 162 stamina per hit.
Also you are not forced to block the whole duration of a telegraphed attack. The only thing that matters is to block right before the hitcheck. If you tap your block just before the skill of an opponent hits you, you can avoid beeing hit and waste stamina on white hits.
In some case you are even better to straight dodge around/away of your target. Dodging cost a bit more but gives you a frame in wich Melee/Projectiles attacks won't be able to hit you and thus allow you to save health and stamina should you actualy succeed to avoid multiple attacks.
Choosing between dodge or block effectively will differenciate a good from a bad player.jesterstear wrote: »One of the game's big selling points versus normal MMOs is the interactivity of combat. Hit/Miss is not a dice roll. In a normal MMO, it's up to you to position yourself and choose the right skill rotation, but hit/miss, dps and survivability are determined by your stats, your gear choices. This game makes a big deal of how you can actively dodge these attacks, it's one of the first things to appear in the wailing prison tutorial and it comes up on every death recap screen.
However, when encountering packs of mobs, the best approach is not to play that game at all, aoe snare/knockdown/interrupt is the way to do it, or simply burn them down fast with an instant cast aoe before stamina runs out.
It depends realy to the fight again, in some cases you are better to AoE down everything you can while in others you will need to kite/CC some of them or use your block and interupts to exploit ennemies weaknesses.
It changes from a situation to another and what kind of build you are running with. But sinds the game has some serious balancing issues I think judging that selling point right now isn't usefull sinds it may change anytime soon or later.
Edited by Brasseurfb16_ESO on August 1, 2014 5:48PM0