Problem with the Anchors, possible solution?

Morgha_Kul · July 2014

Lately, I've been unable to do anything at any of the Anchors I go to. The reason is that there is always one or more (usually more) max or near max level characters there, wiping out everything before anyone else can DO anything. It's trivializing the anchors for them, and is actually taking away that content for everyone else.

Something needs to be done about it.

My suggestion is something I've seen in many other games. Have the enemies that spawn at the anchors all be "universal" levels, so they interact with players at whatever that player's level is. So a L50 character would take damage and do damage as if the enemies were L50, and a L15 character would take damage and do damage as if the enemies were L15.

This way, the anchors become a challenge for EVERYONE that participates, and no one can completely trivialize them.

More, it would make the anchors a special kind of thing, that players of all levels can work together on, building a sense of community. I think it would be good for the game in general.

Natjur · July 2014

With dye linked to achievements and some cool colours linked to dark anchor achievements expect a lot more of this when patch 1.32 goes live.

The high level players are only their to farm the achievement. The bosses that spawn 12% of the time at the anchors, you need all 16 of them for a cool title and dye colour. Once they have the achievement they will move on.

No need to change the anchors, just wait for them to move on.

Besides I can't see how you can make a "universal" levels mob work.

A mob has HP, how does that work at "universal" level? If a mob has 4k of HP, how can that be "universal"? A V12 will kill it in seconds but a L10 will never kill it. And if the mob does an AOE that does 2k damage, how can that real time scale?

They can make dungeons scale, by changing the whole zone at the time you zone in (as its an instance just for you) but world mobs, I don't think that is possiable.

kieso · July 2014

They could do what GW2 does and down level players to that of the max level of that particular zone.

KariTR · July 2014

Don't ask them to change anything as, like players, devs will take the most efficient route which in this case would be to have the 'Generals' only spawn at Vet level/Cyrodiil anchors.

If you see a high level player waiting for a dolmen, perhaps ask them if they would just heal, or leave you to fight and they take anchor pinions? They only want the achievement anyway.

By the way, is this a persistent issue, or does it mainly happen after a server reset?

Nestor · July 2014

I was out doing some Dolmens that other night in Auridon with my L38 NB. I had skipped them when I was leveling through the island and this was my first character I had made in the production game. The folks who showed up to the Dolmen were all level 8 to 12, about what it should be for that area. I tried to stay back and just use my bow after others had gotten their shots in or were in trouble. One Dolmen it was just me and a L12 so I went to town on that one. I could use one or two siphon attacks and take out each mob.

So, not all of us tank roll over things. Although later on I did rush a Dungeon Boss that I had missed, only to see the 3 others who were in the room that I did not notice when I had gone in there.

Morgha_Kul · July 2014

It's an issue that's been going on and on. More than a month now, and I've not been able to get rewards from ANY anchors I take part in, on any of my characters. I don't see it going away any time soon, unless they DO something about it.

Morgha_Kul · July 2014

I should say, I'm not suggesting this for EVERYTHING, just for the anchors, as they're "special."

I hate combat levels, though, so as far as I'm concerned, the ideal thing would be to get rid of them altogether. They segregate the playerbase, trivialize content and lead to an inconsistent world where creatures that should be weak (eg. mudcrabs) can be seen at very high level. But, that's a whole other thread.

Natjur · July 2014

KariTR wrote: »

Don't ask them to change anything as, like players, devs will take the most efficient route which in this case would be to have the 'Generals' only spawn at Vet level/Cyrodiil anchors.

The general that spawn at vet level/cyrodill anchors DO have a higher chance to spawn (16% instead of 12%)

BUT any of the 16 boss can spawn, and if you need just 1 or 2 generals, its better to farm them in the zones they normally appear.

The L20 zone, only 4 different 'Generals' can spawn, so if you need one of those, its better to just keep farming that zone then clearing a Vet level/Cyrodiil anchors as cause if a boss pops, it has a 1 in 4 chance of being the boss you want instead of a 1 in 16.

Now if the bosses in vet levels where also limited by zone (4 per zone) then the high level players WOULD be farming those instead of the low level ones.

Morgha_Kul · July 2014

But wouldn't it be more fun to be challenged by the foes at the anchors, whatever your level?

That's really all I'm suggesting.

Natjur · July 2014

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

But wouldn't it be more fun to be challenged by the foes at the anchors, whatever your level?

That's really all I'm suggesting.

Nice idea, but scaling only works if the whole instance scales (up or down) or the player scales (GW2)

Real time scaling of a non instanced event currently does not exist in any MMO and I can't think (from a programming point of view) how it could be done.

Lots of players of GW2 do NOT want to scale down, they like the idea of one shooting everything (but yes it annoys those lower level players). Forced scaling at world events would annoy more players then it would 'help' in ESO.

Best option (in my view) is to change it so higher level players 'get more' from moving to higher level areas, and making it easier to get the achievements at higher level anchors will do this.

DenverRalphy · July 2014

In my experience, VR players that are looking to complete old Dolmens that for whatever reason didn't complete earlier, will simply pop one or two early mobs, then sit and watch the rest, lending a hand only when needed. Heck, I've done it.

If you're not getting shots in, then I'd sooner attribute it to too many players participating in the event than Vets wiping it out. Vets don't have any incentive to do anything more than get credit for the Dolmen itself. There's no upside towards contributing crazy DPS to the cause.

Nestor · July 2014

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

It's an issue that's been going on and on. More than a month now, and I've not been able to get rewards from ANY anchors I take part in, on any of my characters. I don't see it going away any time soon, unless they DO something about it.

Were you leveled above the Dolmen? If you are more than 5 levels above you get no chest at the end or experience.

The only other reason you would not get any rewards is you did not get a hit on a Mob. (I don't think you even need to kill anything)

Nestor · July 2014

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

But wouldn't it be more fun to be challenged by the foes at the anchors, whatever your level?

That's really all I'm suggesting.

Yes, but we want the map turned to white just like everyone else does, and sometimes we don't get to everything the first time through. The only reason I am going back and doing Dolmens I missed is to clear the map.

Others are doing it for the Achievements and if we could get the Achievements for all Dolmens by just doing the ones at our level, then I would imagine they would do that.

DenverRalphy · July 2014

Nestor wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

It's an issue that's been going on and on. More than a month now, and I've not been able to get rewards from ANY anchors I take part in, on any of my characters. I don't see it going away any time soon, unless they DO something about it.

Were you leveled above the Dolmen? If you are more than 5 levels above you get no chest at the end or experience.

The only other reason you would not get any rewards is you did not get a hit on a Mob. (I don't think you even need to kill anything)

This...

All you need do is get one single hit in during the whole event, or heal allies (which you don't need to be grouped to do). If you can't accomplish either... DAYUM.

arkansas_ESO · July 2014

Natjur wrote: »

A mob has HP, how does that work at "universal" level? If a mob has 4k of HP, how can that be "universal"? A V12 will kill it in seconds but a L10 will never kill it. And if the mob does an AOE that does 2k damage, how can that real time scale?

Maybe make it percentage based? A mob starts out at 100% HP, and two sorcerers, one level 20 and one VR12, are attacking it. Each use Crystal Blast on the mob, with each taking away 2% of the mob's HP, for a total hit of 4% magicka. Whenever the mob hits 0%, it dies.

This way, everybody's on a level playing field, more or less, in terms of raw power.

RoyMallis · July 2014

On any given time I play I might do about 10 anchors, out of each of those maybe 2 or 3 times will there be a higher level player thats just wiping out the mobs as fast as possible. Even then I've been able to receive a chest, in fact the only times I haven't are when I've shown up late or my own level was too high. I play dominion US though, maybe its worse in other ares. Or maybe you need to up your dps / go for pinions more.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2014

I actually get less loot when there is a heard of equal level people there killing stuff as it spawns, then if there is 1 VR character there.

Morgha_Kul · July 2014

Natjur wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

But wouldn't it be more fun to be challenged by the foes at the anchors, whatever your level?

That's really all I'm suggesting.

Nice idea, but scaling only works if the whole instance scales (up or down) or the player scales (GW2)

Real time scaling of a non instanced event currently does not exist in any MMO and I can't think (from a programming point of view) how it could be done.

Lots of players of GW2 do NOT want to scale down, they like the idea of one shooting everything (but yes it annoys those lower level players). Forced scaling at world events would annoy more players then it would 'help' in ESO.

Best option (in my view) is to change it so higher level players 'get more' from moving to higher level areas, and making it easier to get the achievements at higher level anchors will do this.

It DID exist, in City of Heroes. During the Rikti Invasion events, alien invaders would beam in and attack the heroes. It didn't matter what your level was, they all behaved as if they were YOUR level.

I'm not a programmer, so I don't know how they did it, but if CoH can do it, I see no reason ESO can't.

UrQuan · July 2014

Natjur wrote: »

A mob has HP, how does that work at "universal" level? If a mob has 4k of HP, how can that be "universal"? A V12 will kill it in seconds but a L10 will never kill it. And if the mob does an AOE that does 2k damage, how can that real time scale?

It's actually a pretty simple concept. You have the damage scale to the level of whatever is being hit.

So say that a particular attack or ability does X + Y*Z damage, where X is a base amount, and Y is a factor for additional damage that scales with Z, which is the level. I'm just making up the math for the sake of the example - I don't know if ESO damage calculations are remotely like that.

Using that calculation if the base damage for an ability was 20hp, and the additional damage factor is 5hp, then if your character uses the ability at level 1 it would do 25hp damage, and if your character was level 10 it would do 70hp damage.

To scale the damage, all you would do is make it so that Z in the equation isn't the level of the character doing the damage, but the level of the character receiving the damage.

Again, though, I don't know what the actual math at work is like, so it's possible that this simple concept for universally scaling wouldn't work properly for whatever reason.

D2player87 · July 2014

If done right dolmens are soloable. So it doesn't matter if if the mobs are scaled up or not

Reiterpallasch · August 2014

Natjur wrote: »

No need to change the anchors, just wait for them to move on.

Just wait for months as thousands upon thousands of players move on. Or, change the way they work.

Natjur wrote: »

Besides I can't see how you can make a "universal" levels mob work.

A mob has HP, how does that work at "universal" level? If a mob has 4k of HP, how can that be "universal"? A V12 will kill it in seconds but a L10 will never kill it.

If a lvl 10 hits something for around 10% of it's health, then the V12 would also hit it for around 10% of it's health. It's really not hard, in any way imaginable, to figure out how to make the system work.

Good job letting everyone know that you're a vet rank achievement farming btw. It wasn't obvious or anything.

crislevin · August 2014

It's actually hard to get zero credit, after all, all you need is one hit.

felinith66 · August 2014

City of Heroes was the best when it came to grouping mechanics, which this game sorely needs. I wouldn't mind if they applied most of the stuff that City of Heroes did when it came to grouping to this game.

Daethz · August 2014

kieso wrote: »

They could do what GW2 does and down level players to that of the max level of that particular zone.

So every zone in the game?
No.

What should be done is Damage delt by Anchor-Summoned mobs should scale to your level.
And your damage should be scaled down to the Anchor-Summoned Mob's level.

Otherwise meaning higher level players would have no, or little advantage over Anchors.

It does not need to be a zone-wide thing.
Im sure ZOS can add a boolean when a mob is summoned by a anchor,
isSummonedByAnchor == True;
There you go.

Elf_Boy · August 2014

City of Heroes had a scaling system for world bosses and giant monsters.

Higher level characters had more powers and abilities so they still had an advantage, all incoming and outgoing damage, debuffs and the like were scaled to take level out of the process.

ESO already has a process like that for PVP, no?

I would like to see higher level players have damage scale to the top level for each zone. This would allow people of vastly different levels to team up and quest together.

COH did this for grouping, GW2 does it by zone. Other MMO's have ways to accomplish this as well. It would be a neat feature to add.

Morgha_Kul · August 2014

Well, I wasn't going to get into it, so I'll be brief.

This is why I hate combat levels. They segregate the player base and allow content to become trivialized. More, they force developers to make an inconsistent world so higher levels can be challenged.

There's no reason you couldn't make the game with increasing skills and abilities, but keep health and other such attributes static, or relatively so. Characters with higher level/more skills would have an advantage, but would not be so strong that content would be trivial. It would also let lower levels participate in harder content because they would not be trivialized themselves, just disadvantaged somewhat by lack of skills.