Dark Cloak vs. Shadowy CLoak?

aipex8_ESO · July 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

Tremulous wrote: »

For pve I honestly dropped it there are far better abilities for less cost. Great for pvp though. Well you can spam it to stealth through a crap ton of mobs so it does have it's uses.

Yup. I chain casted it through all of the Craglorn caves to grab the skyshards. Didnt have to kill a single thing.

I will probably do this as I have given up on finding a group to do anything but grind in Craglorn.

CapuchinSeven · July 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Dark cloak does fine at removing DoTs. It;'s the best option for end game pvp.

Wish it worked for me.
Have DoT on me --> Use Dark Cloak --> DoT doesn't get removed --> Get pulled out of invisible by the next damage tick.

That has nothing to do with the DOT, it removes DOTs fine.

Vizier · July 2014

Tannakaobi wrote: »

I guess you mean Shadowy Disguise rather than cloak...

Honestly, I don't think that either/any work as an escape. The duration is too short, and mobs often follow you anyway, even if they don't attack. It can be used as such in PVP, but is not easy.

Shadowy Disguise all the way for me, it's my bread and butter for the class.

Take Dark Cloak if you plan on PvP. Bugged as it is it still does remove DOTs and fire is a real hazard in Cyrodiil.

Don't listen to posts like this. I use Dark Cloak ALL the time to get away and can run a helluva long distance spamming it. I have a fast Magicka regen and carry Magicka potions. At lower levels it a little problematic but once you start nearing V1 and past you'll be able to cloak for a couple hundred meters or more and much more than that if you use a potion.

I love this skill. It is a life saver and will make you very difficult to catch if you are clever.

Skafsgaard · July 2014

As a PvP khajiit/vamp (vr2) I can say I enjoy the DoT remover. While this is also a critbased dw/bow build and I really thought about picking the crit one, but the ability to instantly remove dots (FIRE) helps me survive where I should not and get into an advantageous position is awesome. Also nice that it uses magicka in emergency situations, where you often find yourself using stamina to block/roll dodge/break CC/sprint/stealth and any weapon stam ability you might have slotted.
I think I will try to change the morph after 1.3 and see what other options I have for DoT removers (will unstoppable remove dots?). If not then only purge-->effecient purge is left, still doable on the 2nd hotbar I guess. Like more input on DoT removers pls!

Samadhi · July 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Dark cloak does fine at removing DoTs. It;'s the best option for end game pvp.

Wish it worked for me.
Have DoT on me --> Use Dark Cloak --> DoT doesn't get removed --> Get pulled out of invisible by the next damage tick.

That has nothing to do with the DOT, it removes DOTs fine.

Then why is it that the DoT tick pulled me out, and the DoT remained active on me after using Cloak?

pitdemon_ESO · July 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Dark cloak does fine at removing DoTs. It;'s the best option for end game pvp.

Wish it worked for me.
Have DoT on me --> Use Dark Cloak --> DoT doesn't get removed --> Get pulled out of invisible by the next damage tick.

That has nothing to do with the DOT, it removes DOTs fine.

Then why is it the DoT tick that pulled me out, and the DoT remained active on me after using Cloak?

Chances are its not the DoT tick but the fact that you actually got pulled out of stealth?

There is no invisibility in ESO

Skafsgaard · July 2014

I can confirm it is not always removing DoTs. I have often died by fire while invisible. However, I have also noticed that purge doesnt always removes DoTs either, and often have to spam 3 times for oil dots to disappear. But much rarer there and maybe it is a lag issue, hard to tell really.

Samadhi · July 2014

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Dark cloak does fine at removing DoTs. It;'s the best option for end game pvp.

Wish it worked for me.
Have DoT on me --> Use Dark Cloak --> DoT doesn't get removed --> Get pulled out of invisible by the next damage tick.

That has nothing to do with the DOT, it removes DOTs fine.

Then why is it the DoT tick that pulled me out, and the DoT remained active on me after using Cloak?

Chances are its not the DoT tick but the fact that you actually got pulled out of stealth?

There is no invisibility in ESO

Nightblade Dark Cloak turns the Nightblade invisible for 2.9 seconds.
Dark Cloak is supposed to remove 4 DoTs upon cast, but consistently fails to remove any for me.

I'm referring to the invisibility skill, not to crouched sneak.

pitdemon_ESO · July 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Dark cloak does fine at removing DoTs. It;'s the best option for end game pvp.

Wish it worked for me.
Have DoT on me --> Use Dark Cloak --> DoT doesn't get removed --> Get pulled out of invisible by the next damage tick.

That has nothing to do with the DOT, it removes DOTs fine.

Then why is it the DoT tick that pulled me out, and the DoT remained active on me after using Cloak?

Chances are its not the DoT tick but the fact that you actually got pulled out of stealth?

There is no invisibility in ESO

Nightblade Dark Cloak turns the Nightblade invisible for 2.9 seconds.
Dark Cloak is supposed to remove 4 DoTs upon cast, but consistently fails to remove any for me.

I'm referring to the invisibility skill, not to crouched sneak.

You can read tooltips, cool.

There's still no invisibility in ESO. Cloak puts you into stealth. Once there, all of the rules that apply to stealth apply to Cloak.

Arrow/projectile in flight while you cloak? No stealth for you
Try to cloak right in front of someone? Nope
Don't break LoS or get out of their view before you're out of mana? Nope
Try to heal/purge/fart while "invis'd" ? Not a chance

Samadhi · July 2014

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

Dark cloak does fine at removing DoTs. It;'s the best option for end game pvp.

Wish it worked for me.
Have DoT on me --> Use Dark Cloak --> DoT doesn't get removed --> Get pulled out of invisible by the next damage tick.

That has nothing to do with the DOT, it removes DOTs fine.

Then why is it the DoT tick that pulled me out, and the DoT remained active on me after using Cloak?

Chances are its not the DoT tick but the fact that you actually got pulled out of stealth?

There is no invisibility in ESO

Nightblade Dark Cloak turns the Nightblade invisible for 2.9 seconds.
Dark Cloak is supposed to remove 4 DoTs upon cast, but consistently fails to remove any for me.

I'm referring to the invisibility skill, not to crouched sneak.

You can read tooltips, cool.

There's still no invisibility in ESO. Cloak puts you into stealth. Once there, all of the rules that apply to stealth apply to Cloak.

Arrow/projectile in flight while you cloak? No stealth for you
Try to cloak right in front of someone? Nope
Don't break LoS or get out of their view before you're out of mana? Nope
Try to heal/purge/fart while "invis'd" ? Not a chance

Actually you can cloak right in front of someone, I do it all the time with Shadowy Disguise before using Veiled Strike on them and it works fine.

Shadow Cloak and it's morphs do not put you into sneak.
They also do not activate the sneak attack bonus damage modifier when attacking an enemy from behind while invisible.

I didn't use any skills after going invisible, so it wasn't that either.

The effects of Cloak and its morphs are entirely separate from the Sneak mechanics.

nvsg · July 2014

Dark cloak bro trust me removing that over time fire , poison , meatbag , whatever overtime effect it may be this one comes in handy for survival. shadowy disguise is ok but when are you gonna be in stealth 24/7 vs a dot remover

frwinters_ESO · July 2014

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I PvP more then PVE so I go with Dark Cloak. Dots are a plenty and they will kill you in Cyrodil, so being able to cleanse yourself if your not by a healer is a life saver.

Agreed. Being able to purge Fire Balista's with Dark Cloak is invaluable.

I'll just second this.

Also not having to purge/heal when trying to make a getaway is pretty priceless as well.

The only thing it doesn't purge that I wish it did is Mark/Piercing Mark

But the actual Purge Alliance War ability does get rid of marks.

Jaxom · July 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I PvP more then PVE so I go with Dark Cloak. Dots are a plenty and they will kill you in Cyrodil, so being able to cleanse yourself if your not by a healer is a life saver.

Agreed. Being able to purge Fire Balista's with Dark Cloak is invaluable.

I'll just second this.

Also not having to purge/heal when trying to make a getaway is pretty priceless as well.

The only thing it doesn't purge that I wish it did is Mark/Piercing Mark

But the actual Purge Alliance War ability does get rid of marks.

True, but it also costs a crap ton of Stamina.NB'sare going to use Shadow Cloak in PvP, one way or another. It would be silly not to. Might as well kill two birds with one stone and not take up two slots when you can do it with 1. That's how I see it at least.

Samadhi · July 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I PvP more then PVE so I go with Dark Cloak. Dots are a plenty and they will kill you in Cyrodil, so being able to cleanse yourself if your not by a healer is a life saver.

Agreed. Being able to purge Fire Balista's with Dark Cloak is invaluable.

I'll just second this.

Also not having to purge/heal when trying to make a getaway is pretty priceless as well.

The only thing it doesn't purge that I wish it did is Mark/Piercing Mark

But the actual Purge Alliance War ability does get rid of marks.

True, but it also costs a crap ton of Stamina.NB'sare going to use Shadow Cloak in PvP, one way or another. It would be silly not to. Might as well kill two birds with one stone and not take up two slots when you can do it with 1. That's how I see it at least.

Efficient Purge morph uses no more Magicka than Shadow Cloak does.
It also allows me to remove negative effects from my allies as well as myself, and reduces the duration of negative effects on me for a few seconds after casting the skill.

I like having Efficient Purge on my backup bar for negative effects (especially Marked Target) while having Shadowy Disguise for crits in combat; especially since I need to go invisible to activate the CC on Veiled Strike anyway, might as well get the free bonus damage increase of a crit in the process.

Jaxom · July 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

I PvP more then PVE so I go with Dark Cloak. Dots are a plenty and they will kill you in Cyrodil, so being able to cleanse yourself if your not by a healer is a life saver.

Agreed. Being able to purge Fire Balista's with Dark Cloak is invaluable.

I'll just second this.

Also not having to purge/heal when trying to make a getaway is pretty priceless as well.

The only thing it doesn't purge that I wish it did is Mark/Piercing Mark

But the actual Purge Alliance War ability does get rid of marks.

True, but it also costs a crap ton of Stamina.NB'sare going to use Shadow Cloak in PvP, one way or another. It would be silly not to. Might as well kill two birds with one stone and not take up two slots when you can do it with 1. That's how I see it at least.

Efficient Purge morph uses no more Magicka than Shadow Cloak does.
It also allows me to remove negative effects from my allies as well as myself, and reduces the duration of negative effects on me for a few seconds after casting the skill.

I like having Efficient Purge on my backup bar for negative effects (especially Marked Target) while having Shadowy Disguise for crits in combat; especially since I need to go invisible to activate the CC on Veiled Strike anyway, might as well get the free bonus damage increase of a crit in the process.

Interesting. I'm going to have to test that out. Thanks for the insight. I havent played around with Purge all that much and when I used it, it was costing me like 850 Stamina, or something ridiculous like that so I sort of wrote it off.

Nihili · July 2014

(OP here) Seems like the majority are calling for Dark Cloak because of the DoT remover, whereas anyone using Shadowy Cloak are using it because they find Dark Cloak bugged and would then rather have the Crit+...

I think I would have to give Dark Cloak a go. I'm getting a lot of positive feedback for survivability in Dark Cloak's direction, and I've been using Shadowy Cloak up to VR1 now and it's not been giving me the biggest edge from an offensive perspective despite the crit boost.

Might be the case that Shadowy's defensive advantage outweighs Dark's offensive advantage

And hopefully it isn't as bugged as some of the posters make it out to be

kitsinni · July 2014

For me at least it does a pretty good job of removing most dots. I use it in PvP all the time and if I had a dot on me I would pop right back out of stealth and I don't.

I think shadowy disguise would be best for a PvE situation where you are going to start in sneak > surprise attack (sneak bonus) > shadowy disguise > surprise attack (stun + auto crit). In PvP I hardly have the chance to have all that work out that way. By the time you hit Shadowy Disguise they are out of surprise attack range.

Both have their advantages it just depends on how you play.

Rylana · July 2014

When I attack someone, I commit to either them dying or me dying.

Dark cloak to me would therefore be entirely pointless. I do not intend to escape my prey. All of the sizing up happens before I come out of stealth to begin with. The battle is actually already over at that point in most cases.

My survival/extended fight bar has efficient purge on it anyway. Costs less, clears plenty, even has a minty fresh flavor.

Shadowy disguise gives me the tools I need to momentarily boost my attacks, disorient my opponent, and finish the kill.

In other words, I dont run at the first sign of trouble, if I cloak on you, rest assured youre about to get nailed.

Also, the current FOTM on armor mods being Impenetrable makes Shadowy Disguise the must-have for crit based builds.

kitsinni · July 2014

Rylana wrote: »

When I attack someone, I commit to either them dying or me dying.

.

I can understand this but Dark Cloak allows me to have them die, then their buddy die. Say a group rides by on a horses and you attack the last one you kill them but they get a dot on you, Dark Cloak allows you to get back in to sneak after killing them since the DOT is gone.

I also use it when the enemy is sieging a keep. I start to pick off the last line of siege and Dark Cloak allows me to get back in to stealth to hide. I wait for them to run around looking for me then back in and pick off the next one.

It seems like for Shadowy Disguise to really be effective it has to be just one on one.

Samadhi · July 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

When I attack someone, I commit to either them dying or me dying.

.

I can understand this but Dark Cloak allows me to have them die, then their buddy die. Say a group rides by on a horses and you attack the last one you kill them but they get a dot on you, Dark Cloak allows you to get back in to sneak after killing them since the DOT is gone.

I also use it when the enemy is sieging a keep. I start to pick off the last line of siege and Dark Cloak allows me to get back in to stealth to hide. I wait for them to run around looking for me then back in and pick off the next one.

It seems like for Shadowy Disguise to really be effective it has to be just one on one.

I personally love going right back into sneak with Shadowy Disguise then killing the next target...and the next...and the next.

It's exceedingly rare that combat ends with a DoT on me, but if it does I can Purge it before going invisible.

Rylana · July 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

When I attack someone, I commit to either them dying or me dying.

.

I can understand this but Dark Cloak allows me to have them die, then their buddy die. Say a group rides by on a horses and you attack the last one you kill them but they get a dot on you, Dark Cloak allows you to get back in to sneak after killing them since the DOT is gone.

I also use it when the enemy is sieging a keep. I start to pick off the last line of siege and Dark Cloak allows me to get back in to stealth to hide. I wait for them to run around looking for me then back in and pick off the next one.

It seems like for Shadowy Disguise to really be effective it has to be just one on one.

Purge + shadowy = invisible and unbroken. Same as an invisibility potion to wait out the dot + shadowy. Potato, potato.

Its a playstyle issue. I see nightblades turn and run the moment they get hit more times than not. A nightblade is by NO MEANS squishy. between the consuming darkness ultimate (heal on one morph, damage on the other, pick your poison), cloaks, extreme stamina regen for blocking with a medium build... survivability is the hallmark of the class.

Except for my templar, which is essentially a power healer that will die anyway if someone doesnt get the 3 or 4 guys off of me eventually, my NB is by and large my safest solo play character.

Even my DK, which is the stronger character in actual combat and can mitigate a load of damage, cant get away if things go south or gets mobbed.

Its just playstyle, I dont play to run. I always take stock of what I am about to get into before I get into it. Wont see me jump into a mob of four on purpose, two at most, maybe three if one of them is already weak.

Ganker, pure and simple.

Falmer · July 2014

Personally, I go with the extra Crit bonus every time. Why? Because its NOT just an opening move. My DW NB cloaks every 4 seconds in battle... with the other ways of increasing crit... it still is nearly 100%...

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

I would use dark cloak if it worked, I hear mixed reports. Maybe when they let us change morphs for cheap.

Escaping people with cloak in cyrodiil is a pita anyway, 99% of abilities pop you right out of cloak. Most for no particular reason other than you are a nightblade and inherently your skills are not supposed to work.

Edit: for craglorn skyshards, the dwemer dungeon does require a friend to kite mobs away from the shard. They were right on top of it when I and a friend went there so we took turns kiting them away. We were both nightblades and everything else we were able to get without fighting, though a few deaths were involved.

kitsinni · July 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

When I attack someone, I commit to either them dying or me dying.

.

I can understand this but Dark Cloak allows me to have them die, then their buddy die. Say a group rides by on a horses and you attack the last one you kill them but they get a dot on you, Dark Cloak allows you to get back in to sneak after killing them since the DOT is gone.

I also use it when the enemy is sieging a keep. I start to pick off the last line of siege and Dark Cloak allows me to get back in to stealth to hide. I wait for them to run around looking for me then back in and pick off the next one.

It seems like for Shadowy Disguise to really be effective it has to be just one on one.

I personally love going right back into sneak with Shadowy Disguise then killing the next target...and the next...and the next.

It's exceedingly rare that combat ends with a DoT on me, but if it does I can Purge it before going invisible.

Like I said each have their advantages. Even the cheaper purge morph isn't cheap and either is cloak no matter which morph you take. A lot of times for my playstyle I don't have that extra time to switch to a second bar, purge, shadowy disguise and get away, nor do I have the magicka to support it after bursting someone down.

Like when I am picking off people during a siege it is usually a matter of an extra second and I wouldn't get back in to sneak without being discovered. I prefer to have it in one move but that is just my preference.

Rylana · July 2014

Yeh magicka management can be an issue, this is also why I used a hybrid stamina/magicka build between two bars. I use both pools for my burst down, and rarely let my magicka drop below 700 if I think I am about to get overwhelmed.

The fixes to stamina based attacks, regen, and passives already out and those on the horizon, makes this build style the best choice. My opinion of course.

Samadhi · July 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

When I attack someone, I commit to either them dying or me dying.

.

I can understand this but Dark Cloak allows me to have them die, then their buddy die. Say a group rides by on a horses and you attack the last one you kill them but they get a dot on you, Dark Cloak allows you to get back in to sneak after killing them since the DOT is gone.

I also use it when the enemy is sieging a keep. I start to pick off the last line of siege and Dark Cloak allows me to get back in to stealth to hide. I wait for them to run around looking for me then back in and pick off the next one.

It seems like for Shadowy Disguise to really be effective it has to be just one on one.

I personally love going right back into sneak with Shadowy Disguise then killing the next target...and the next...and the next.

It's exceedingly rare that combat ends with a DoT on me, but if it does I can Purge it before going invisible.

Like I said each have their advantages. Even the cheaper purge morph isn't cheap and either is cloak no matter which morph you take. A lot of times for my playstyle I don't have that extra time to switch to a second bar, purge, shadowy disguise and get away, nor do I have the magicka to support it after bursting someone down.

Like when I am picking off people during a siege it is usually a matter of an extra second and I wouldn't get back in to sneak without being discovered. I prefer to have it in one move but that is just my preference.

I can totally respect your decisions for taking Dark Cloak. If it works for you that is great.

For me though, I'd still have to have Purge on hand anyway.
As much as it is slightly bothersome to have the occasional DoT keep me from stealthing for a few seconds, it's even more bothersome to have Mark Target reveal me in stealth for a full minute.

xaraan · July 2014

I tend to use this defensively, so prefer the cloak to remove DoTs. Though it still seems to not work right in PvP, just last night I continued to stay visible to others after activating powers and continued getting attacked. So not loving the use of it right now either way.

Nihili · August 2014

OP here: I actually changed from Shadowy to Dark Cloak with 1.3.3 and I gotta say Dark cloak is a game changer for survivability. It adds much more to survivability than Shadowy cloak does to offense - in my opinion. I feel Shadowy cloak is better for PvE and Dark cloak is better for PvP

TheBucket · August 2014

I laugh when I fight NB's who are using the Crit bonus because my DoTs and Bleeds eat them to pieces. While all I have to do is block when they Cloak or Fear

LunaRae · August 2014

I was running SD prior to 1.2 (PvP player) and when I did my V12 reset I spec'd into DC and so far it has been working better, but still has some issues. I don't really need invis to do anything but work. The DoT removal is nicer than the crit as I don't often attack from invis, it's mostly to disengage.