Jaxom wrote: »

Imagine Impule Spammers hitting 20 people at a single time and instantly fill their ultimate meter or a Bolt Mage bolting through a large zerg and instantly filling their ultimate due to the sheer number of people it's hitting on screen.

You obviously have no idea what streak does right now.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

They can keep ult gen limited to what you generate now off the cap, thats a simple solution.

People are worried about 20 impulse spammers vaporizing stuff, but I run a zerg buster group and we live inside 60-80+ people for quite awhile.

The issue isnt instantly dying, its that your chances of hitting the same guy twice with an AOE are painfully low.

Indeed, it really isn't hard to see the solution there. How hard they would find it to code I don't know, simple things can often be surprisingly difficult to code.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

There are discussions currently going on with the combat team about the AE cap and in relation to the question about server merges, in 1.3 we are taking the amount of campaigns down from 10 to 5.

Wouldn't reducing the amount of campaigns put more people in one place which at present your servers/software dont seem to be able to handle, you are simply moving the problem from 10 places to 5, yes this will increase some resources on the servers that its hosted but in general the problem will still remain.

I fear that once 1.3 is released instead of having small groups of 20v20 in quite times you will end up with 40v40 and those large 60v60 battles will end up 120v120 which as i say above your servers and software can not handle.

Things are getting worse not better!

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I've said this a few times

Ultimate is already capped per Skill use, I believe the cap is 15 for most abilities, In other words, you can hit 6 or 20 with impulse, and the max you will get per impulse is

Some of the abilities were bugged and giving 15 + an additional 15 on dots

Yes the dots have always been extra earners, needs to be addressed at some point.

Saw a single Streaker Silence our zerg for at least 4 times in under 15secs the other day....

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

Zaraul wrote: »

Saw a single Streaker Silence our zerg for at least 4 times in under 15secs the other day....

... video or lol

I can attest to the fact that it can be done.

She has endured the Fengrush experience.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

Zaraul wrote: »

Saw a single Streaker Silence our zerg for at least 4 times in under 15secs the other day....

... video or lol

I can attest to the fact that it can be done.

She has endured the Fengrush experience.

It's cute that you make stuff up about me but no.

No, more like I've done it to a certain wabbabad DC zerg trying to take our emp keep. Nothing more delicious than zerglings huddled into a corner.
Also simply 'silenced' doesn't even begin to cover the terror that was inflicted on them.

zScars wrote: »

aoe caps = bad

True.

Or at least ,while you're doing the discussion ,can we have insight on why did you chose to implement a target cap in the first place?

I think this is really something no one can explain, and we really need you to make us understand your original reasoning.

Brian? ya there amigo?

Columba wrote: »

no aoe caps will create many more problems, including aoe lag. no thank you.

You are wrong on both count.
It will reduce aoe lag.
If you cared to read other people instead of throwing eroneus one liners, perhaps you'd know that.

Also, It will not cause "many more problems", more than anything, it will fix many of the existing ones. And the more important ones at that.
It will work fine, just as it did before being discovered and in all the other games that did large scale pvp right.

You're part of the people defending the cap tooth and nail, so if you're not in for your own benefit but for some sort of misguided good intent, then the burden of proof is on you:
What do aoe caps bring to the game that is worth all the issues they cause?
Why should they be saved despite being the cause of some of the major flaws left in the game? (namely, lag, stacking/blobing and random luck factor)

Krinaman wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

You're part of the people defending the cap tooth and nail, so if you're not in for your own benefit but for some sort of misguided good intent, then the burden of proof is on you:
What do aoe caps bring to the game that is worth all the issues they cause?
Why should they be saved despite being the cause of some of the major flaws left in the game? (namely, lag, stacking/blobing and random luck factor)

The problem is you nor anybody else has proven that AOE caps cause these "major flaws". But to answer your question of what do they bring, they bring balance. Without caps, AOEs would be the most powerful skills in the game. We already seen how out of control they were when a few bugged skills were uncapped. We already see how powerful oil is. Furthermore it wouldn't even stop people from blobbing as the reason people blob is because of how group mechanics work.

Of course we have, you're just too stubborn or too invested to admit it.
Stackign a group gives tremendous amount of AP, I get it, and its fun the first few times to roll over people. Been there, done that.
But eventually, you have to think about long term benefits.
Either for you, it will become boring eventually, and for the game, people are leaving over this.

Anyway, I'll adress your answer:

The target caps in and themselves do not bring balance, quite the opposite. it's even surprising you could see it otherwise:
- It encourages people to stack on top of each other to avoid damage, but has a barrier of entry that then scales into haves and haves-not both in power and economical gains.
- It buffs healing indirectly by removing all its drawbacks and goes against the concept of "slow but smart" healing the game seems to be designed around.
- it does nothing to impact individual skills potency, an op skill would shine with or without caps. It gives you a misguided sense of security, but blanket solutions rarely work, and this case is not an exception.

The cap is what makes aoe skills mandatory in the game.
When all you face are stacks of people, aoes are always preferable to single target abilities, even with the cap.
The only single target skills that may be useful are finishers, like mage's fury, but they are easy to counter and are still sub par compared to aoes.
Just do the math, what is better: potentialy 900 on one target with the need to aim, or assured 250 on 6 targets without aiming?

Things are not OP in a vacuum.
These skills you mentionned were imbalanced only in comparison to the rest of the game, it is not the concept of uncaped aoes that is flawed.
This is also why oil is "powerful", because aside of the uncaped nature of it, it is very weak, dangerous and slow to use. And in addition, stacking makes it safe.
The same math apply than before, what is best: hitting 6 targets or an infinite amount?
With more spread out fights, single targets become bread and butter and aoes become situational.(chokepoints or when enemies group up for buffs/heals)
That's how it already works now when fighting occurs between two uncoordinated large forces. Even at sieges, there are rarely more than 6 targets at the same spot.

There are no "grouping mechanics" that encourage players to stack aside from the target caps.
Passive dodge chances is an extremely strong incentive itself, and it impacts everything else by making things that are dangerous in other contexts, safer.

Most of the skills that were or are considered problematic are pbaoes(including oil) and that's because they are easier and safer to use as a stack.
The leader just has to move to the position he wants people dead rather than coordinate a focus fire.
Without target caps, those skills would lose their purpose quickly, as:
- two stacks meeting would be assured mutual destruction.
- long range aoes coordinated focus fire would be able to one shot them.
- This works as well to take down keeps with defenders spamming oil. The attackers usually are more spread out than the defenders.

As for heals and buffs, they usually have a larger range/area than damage aoes and those that don't are useful only in situations where you are forced to stack up through other reasons (charging through a breach)

Once again, it comes down to not see individual pieces in a vacuum but observe the entire system.
These short range positive aoe abilities are only made safe in open field thanks to stacking.
Again, think about the maths, what is best: damage mitigation/healing when guaranteed damage is coming(breach) or damage mitigation/healing against non guaranteed damage at the cost of risking damage(grouping up in open field)?

So, regarding only the arguments you brought to the table, target cap:
- causes imbalance,
- forces the use of aoes only,
- forces people to stack for safety
- makes some tools stronger than they should be

The question remains: what benefits does a general, arbitrary, target cap bring to the game?