Werewolf Suggestion

moxiesauce · July 2014

So they are bad, straight up everyone knows this. Even when playing a WW it doesn't even feel right. The most useful thing about it is the speed.
I truly think for them to be good they need to have some serious changes worthy of skill points.

1st the damage. As a WW I expect to just melt everything I come in contact with, sad truth you don't. I'm v12 and struggling to take on a group of 3 v8 mobs, it's pathetic. I'm aware ZoS plans to up the damage on WW's and hopefully sooner than later. They should just set up a simulator with a target dummy and tweak it until they can pull at least 1k+ just swinging at v12.

2nd the survivability, The only thing that helps you survive in WW is your horrible dmg output, there is no AOE what so ever. After you kill something you can move around a body until your lucky enough to have the synergy pop up, and only 1 body per group that you kill. Then you can get a heal after combat. They should remove fear being an ability and have it be a chance on swing to proc aoe. Replace the ability with a pounce type ability that causes your character to pin the target down as you rip him to shreds, gaining health and leaving bleeding. Up the damage on the current pounce ability. Add more abilities like even more speed for a duration, call it hircines flight. An ability that gives health back for each swing and cleaves up to 6 targets for reduced damage, call it blood lust or something. Have one that summons wolves to fight by your side, and have one that gives every friendly WW in the area 100 ultimate if they have WW on their bar, with these changes they probably would.

3 the cost, make it 400 ulti 500 at the most.

I'm aware these are rather over powered but many tweaks could come with it. Like have WW's benefit the most from stamina builds (It states they do, I'm thinking its not entirely true). If you gain soft cap on stam you should have crazy dmg output in WW. This would eliminate mages running it. Also take into consideration that WW's are melee, to be a melee requires a lot in this game, and with that deserves an ungodly amount of dmg output. Werewolves should really be feared when seen, as of how the game is now they are laughed at. I was in Cyrodiil not long ago and me and 2 others seen a WW coming towards us, he died before he got close enough to even swing and I actually felt bad for him. With that said I've never seen a WW impress me, unlike vamps with bat swarm going 1v5.

nerevarine1138 · July 2014

Was anyone else hoping for actual werewolf thoughts in this thread?

- I really need someone to scratch behind my ears.
- What's that smell? Is that me? Oh Hircine, I need a bath.
- Meat. Meat meat meat.
- That moon looks pretty, I- AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

moxiesauce · July 2014

your right title change was in order

freespirit · July 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Was anyone else hoping for actual werewolf thoughts in this thread?

- I really need someone to scratch behind my ears.
- What's that smell? Is that me? Oh Hircine, I need a bath.
- Meat. Meat meat meat.
- That moon looks pretty, I- AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Get out of my head!!

OP cannot comment I have intentionally ignored both werewolf and vampire, they are on my 'to do' list but nowhere near the top of it.

I want to know what I can do as a 'standard' character so when I do finally jump in I have something to use as a comparison.

Taz · July 2014

I think one of my favorite suggestions I saw as far as ultimate cost and such was making werewolf a toggle with a twist, almost a reverse-ultimate.

Basically you can turn into a WW at any time and doing so drains your ultimate but you'll never get kicked out of the form if the ultimate runs out. However, if you fight out of WW form, you gain ultimate, and if the ultimate hits the max, you "lose control" and are forced to transform until the ultimate timer runs out.

It seemed to capture the control aspect of lycanthropy in a unique way that makes werewolf an interesting play style. A bit like vampires have to feed to keep their humanity, werewolves have to transform and fight to keep theirs.

Natjur · July 2014

The problem is what ever they do, they can't make them too powerful, Vampire, Werewolf and human should all be valid options.

Vampires and werewolfs need large con's to balance the pro's or everyone will be one. The new Justice system and how vampires at stage 3 &4 and werewolf's who transform in public get marked KOS should change the playing field alot

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO · July 2014

Taz wrote: »

I think one of my favorite suggestions I saw as far as ultimate cost and such was making werewolf a toggle with a twist, almost a reverse-ultimate.

Basically you can turn into a WW at any time and doing so drains your ultimate but you'll never get kicked out of the form if the ultimate runs out. However, if you fight out of WW form, you gain ultimate, and if the ultimate hits the max, you "lose control" and are forced to transform until the ultimate timer runs out.

It seemed to capture the control aspect of lycanthropy in a unique way that makes werewolf an interesting play style. A bit like vampires have to feed to keep their humanity, werewolves have to transform and fight to keep theirs.

This would be so awesome. I concur.

nvsg · July 2014

Taz wrote: »

I think one of my favorite suggestions I saw as far as ultimate cost and such was making werewolf a toggle with a twist, almost a reverse-ultimate.

Basically you can turn into a WW at any time and doing so drains your ultimate but you'll never get kicked out of the form if the ultimate runs out. However, if you fight out of WW form, you gain ultimate, and if the ultimate hits the max, you "lose control" and are forced to transform until the ultimate timer runs out.

It seemed to capture the control aspect of lycanthropy in a unique way that makes werewolf an interesting play style. A bit like vampires have to feed to keep their humanity, werewolves have to transform and fight to keep theirs.

Agreed best one ever^

Sharee · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

there is no AOE what so ever.

Doing a heavy attack in werewolf form hits the main target and two other nearby targets.

Circuitica · July 2014

Taz wrote: »

I think one of my favorite suggestions I saw as far as ultimate cost and such was making werewolf a toggle with a twist, almost a reverse-ultimate.

Basically you can turn into a WW at any time and doing so drains your ultimate but you'll never get kicked out of the form if the ultimate runs out. However, if you fight out of WW form, you gain ultimate, and if the ultimate hits the max, you "lose control" and are forced to transform until the ultimate timer runs out.

It seemed to capture the control aspect of lycanthropy in a unique way that makes werewolf an interesting play style. A bit like vampires have to feed to keep their humanity, werewolves have to transform and fight to keep theirs.

This would be awesome. ^^

My alt character just got turned into WW and I was so disappointed. For me the major problem is to level the WW skill tree. I got about 2-3 mobs killed in WW form before turning back into a little bosmer girl.

UrQuan · July 2014

Circuitica wrote: »

Taz wrote: »

I think one of my favorite suggestions I saw as far as ultimate cost and such was making werewolf a toggle with a twist, almost a reverse-ultimate.

Basically you can turn into a WW at any time and doing so drains your ultimate but you'll never get kicked out of the form if the ultimate runs out. However, if you fight out of WW form, you gain ultimate, and if the ultimate hits the max, you "lose control" and are forced to transform until the ultimate timer runs out.

It seemed to capture the control aspect of lycanthropy in a unique way that makes werewolf an interesting play style. A bit like vampires have to feed to keep their humanity, werewolves have to transform and fight to keep theirs.

This would be awesome. ^^

My alt character just got turned into WW and I was so disappointed. For me the major problem is to level the WW skill tree. I got about 2-3 mobs killed in WW form before turning back into a little bosmer girl.

Yeah, leveling the WW skill tree is a pain with very little reward. I wanted to become a WW because of the Companions questline in Skyrim - I spent so long as a werewolf in that game that it just felt right to try to be one in this game. While I'm happy to be one, I really don't feel like it's worth it from a gameplay perspective.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

Circuitica wrote: »

Taz wrote: »

I think one of my favorite suggestions I saw as far as ultimate cost and such was making werewolf a toggle with a twist, almost a reverse-ultimate.

Basically you can turn into a WW at any time and doing so drains your ultimate but you'll never get kicked out of the form if the ultimate runs out. However, if you fight out of WW form, you gain ultimate, and if the ultimate hits the max, you "lose control" and are forced to transform until the ultimate timer runs out.

It seemed to capture the control aspect of lycanthropy in a unique way that makes werewolf an interesting play style. A bit like vampires have to feed to keep their humanity, werewolves have to transform and fight to keep theirs.

This would be awesome. ^^

My alt character just got turned into WW and I was so disappointed. For me the major problem is to level the WW skill tree. I got about 2-3 mobs killed in WW form before turning back into a little bosmer girl.

-any- kills count towards ww experience. What I did was go to vr1 stonefalls and earn up ultimate then port to spindleclutch (lots of mobs no other people) and took out as many mobs as possible before I reverted to khajiit.

I was at rank 7 at the time and it didn't take long to max it out. Also, if you have a leveling bar you load for turning in quests, you can put pounce and roar on there to level them up, you just can't use them.

Circuitica · July 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

Yeah, leveling the WW skill tree is a pain with very little reward. I wanted to become a WW because of the Companions questline in Skyrim - I spent so long as a werewolf in that game that it just felt right to try to be one in this game. While I'm happy to be one, I really don't feel like it's worth it from a gameplay perspective.

Yeah. Right now it seems to be just a cosmetic feature. At least for me. Little RP time, yay! ^_^

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

-any- kills count towards ww experience. What I did was go to vr1 stonefalls and earn up ultimate then port to spindleclutch (lots of mobs no other people) and took out as many mobs as possible before I reverted to khajiit.

This is how I comprehended it. My WW character is lvl 48 right now and I'm going to try it in your way very soon.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I was at rank 7 at the time and it didn't take long to max it out. Also, if you have a leveling bar you load for turning in quests, you can put pounce and roar on there to level them up, you just can't use them.

I use to do this all the time with other abilities but I thought in WW case only kills count for experience.

Silly me!

UrQuan · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Circuitica wrote: »

Taz wrote: »

I think one of my favorite suggestions I saw as far as ultimate cost and such was making werewolf a toggle with a twist, almost a reverse-ultimate.

Basically you can turn into a WW at any time and doing so drains your ultimate but you'll never get kicked out of the form if the ultimate runs out. However, if you fight out of WW form, you gain ultimate, and if the ultimate hits the max, you "lose control" and are forced to transform until the ultimate timer runs out.

It seemed to capture the control aspect of lycanthropy in a unique way that makes werewolf an interesting play style. A bit like vampires have to feed to keep their humanity, werewolves have to transform and fight to keep theirs.

This would be awesome. ^^

My alt character just got turned into WW and I was so disappointed. For me the major problem is to level the WW skill tree. I got about 2-3 mobs killed in WW form before turning back into a little bosmer girl.

-any- kills count towards ww experience. What I did was go to vr1 stonefalls and earn up ultimate then port to spindleclutch (lots of mobs no other people) and took out as many mobs as possible before I reverted to khajiit.

I was at rank 7 at the time and it didn't take long to max it out. Also, if you have a leveling bar you load for turning in quests, you can put pounce and roar on there to level them up, you just can't use them.

Really? Hmm, that's helpful. I'll have to do a little of this to level my WW skill.

Lynx7386 · July 2014

In my opinion werewolf firm should have no cost and be a toggle on/off ultimate with unlimited duration. The real cost is that you're giving up a better ultimate for the form.

The werewolf passives should also apply when not transformed, just like vampire passives.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · July 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Was anyone else hoping for actual werewolf thoughts in this thread?

- I really need someone to scratch behind my ears.
- What's that smell? Is that me? Oh Hircine, I need a bath.
- Meat. Meat meat meat.
- That moon looks pretty, I- AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

You forgot to include the cognitive stream of werewolf children. Goes a little something like this:

"What's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-YOW-GOTTA-PEE-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that-what's-that?"

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

I think the transformation should be a toggleable ability, as opposed to an ultimate, it's terrible as an ultimate.

The current abilities, even if somewhat improved would not be enough.

To prevent feeding on multiple corpses by, you know, fixing that bug, they put a cooldown on devour,which means that even if they extended the time you can be in werewolf, it would not be easily extendable from there. Also, devour gets interrupted if you get hit with damage. So the only way you can devour in the first place is if you have killed everyone around you.

To fix a bug that had pretty much no effect on game balance, they nerfed werewolves.

They keep talking about how they are going to make werewolf better however, not only does nothing they have mentioned sound like it would make it viable in anyway (extending the time in form? so I can do less damage and be weaker for longer?) Furthermore, they're supposed interest in improving it has only led to nerfs, partially due to lazy coding or just not caring. The multiple feeds off a corpse bug was not pressing enough to skip fixing the actual bug and just slamming werewolves with a huge nerf like that.

One of the problems is that, with vampire, you can pick and choose what of the abilities you want on your bar, and the passives are very useful.

The only passive I like for werewolf is blood rage. Roar is awful because I have enemies running from me, possibly into other enemies, and my damage is weak enough that I just don't have the ability to take advantage of their fear effectively.

Pounce is difficult to set up, you have to be a very specific distance from the mob, by the time I get myself in position I am moments from reverting back.

More passives that effect you in human form, transformation as a toggleable ability (maybe the toggle could flip your bar to a third bar that has any actives for werewolf on it and maybe 1 or 2 actives that are not weapon based but also not werewolf,) the ability to use your other abilities (perhaps none that are based on a weapon line) longer time in werewolf, the ability to revert at any time.

All the pack stuff is useless. The likelihood of me running with an entire pack of werewolves and us even transforming around the same time is so ridiculously slim. yet the alpha morph of the transformation was one of the first things they messed with. and call of the pack is the final passive you open up. I get adding the pack stuff for the few RPers that want to RP a pack full of werewolves, but keep it to morphs, don't take up passive slots with that crap, and it should never take priority.

The stamina abilities are fine, it being based on stamina is okay by me but here's the thing.

When I am in werewolf form I should be exceedingly fast and able to leap very far/high like in morrowind. I realize we are already fast, but faster dammit. I should be wrecking people with my actual swings. the actives just aren't great and I think they should focus more on things like... well roar is a good one, it has potential. Maybe one that summons a pack of wolves to fight for a short time.

if roar is our only cc, it needs to have a little more oomph, but I haven't morphed it yet, so who knows. A stun wouldn't hurt. Pounce being a little less picky about your distance from the enemy would be nice (I've tried to lead in with it and I am never at the right distance.)

Welka · July 2014

Damn right @smeeprocketnub19_ESO‌

At the moment, when I turn to WW state, it just feel like being someone else's vanity pet

nvsg · July 2014

Circuitica wrote: »

Taz wrote: »

I think one of my favorite suggestions I saw as far as ultimate cost and such was making werewolf a toggle with a twist, almost a reverse-ultimate.

Basically you can turn into a WW at any time and doing so drains your ultimate but you'll never get kicked out of the form if the ultimate runs out. However, if you fight out of WW form, you gain ultimate, and if the ultimate hits the max, you "lose control" and are forced to transform until the ultimate timer runs out.

It seemed to capture the control aspect of lycanthropy in a unique way that makes werewolf an interesting play style. A bit like vampires have to feed to keep their humanity, werewolves have to transform and fight to keep theirs.

This would be awesome. ^^

My alt character just got turned into WW and I was so disappointed. For me the major problem is to level the WW skill tree. I got about 2-3 mobs killed in WW form before turning back into a little bosmer girl.

hey the best way is in greenshade if your aldmeri at the labyrinth shrine killing wasp, if your in any other alliance just find some wasps they are the best! about 12 come out the hive and you can keep feeding on them trust me best way to lvl it up I got lvl10 in 3 days. skills are a lil bit harder

jquestb16_ESO2 · July 2014

WW is pretty easy to level up, just find an area that spawns wolves fast and kill those, since it's the only thing you can kill in WW form. Everything else will slaughter you. I was on a boss once and forgot WW was my ultimate, man was I mad when I changed and got smoked lol

WW is garbage, although how do you become a white one? I'm only rank 7 at the moment.

Welka · July 2014

jquestb16_ESO2 wrote: »

WW is pretty easy to level up, just find an area that spawns wolves fast and kill those, since it's the only thing you can kill in WW form. Everything else will slaughter you. I was on a boss once and forgot WW was my ultimate, man was I mad when I changed and got smoked lol

WW is garbage, although how do you become a white one? I'm only rank 7 at the moment.

Wrong, you can easily get a mob of 3 guys in WW form. Use the abilities the WW has, they don't cost much stamina and are useful, though too few

To be a white werewolf, you need to go back to the WW shrine once you hit lv10 WW and beg hircine to dye your fur. I've heard that you have a 5% chance of hircine offering the color pink as a choice

bluesodafizz · July 2014

werewolf in this game does not compare in the slightest to the feel of being one in any previous elder scrolls game. I would be happy if they just let me run on all four of my paws for hircine's sake.

UrQuan · July 2014

bluesodafizz wrote: »

werewolf in this game does not compare in the slightest to the feel of being one in any previous elder scrolls game. I would be happy if they just let me run on all four of my paws for hircine's sake.

That's actually the main thing I wanted to do with being a werewolf. That's pretty much the only thing I did as a werewolf in Skyrim - I never found it more effective to be in werewolf form than in human form, but it was sure fun to run around on all fours.

moxiesauce · July 2014

I love all the ideas, TBH anything is better than what it is now. If it was toggle it would have to be more balanced. If it remains an ulti it needs to be "over powered". Banner costs 200 and wrecks WW by a mile (under exaggerating), for a cost of 750 I should be a god in WW. And ya all the "pack" things that come with WW are dumb, just a completely unlikely scenario to happen as the game currently is.

Circuitica · July 2014

nvsg wrote: »

hey the best way is in greenshade if your aldmeri at the labyrinth shrine killing wasp, if your in any other alliance just find some wasps they are the best! about 12 come out the hive and you can keep feeding on them trust me best way to lvl it up I got lvl10 in 3 days. skills are a lil bit harder

I'm in Daggerfall but I'm quite sure I can find some wasps over there as well. Thanks for the tip.

jquestb16_ESO2 wrote: »

I was on a boss once and forgot WW was my ultimate, man was I mad when I changed and got smoked lol

I've done the same mistake.

It wouldn't be so bad if the WW ultimate cost less. Using it unpurposely for nothing is just so annoying.

Welka wrote: »

To be a white werewolf, you need to go back to the WW shrine once you hit lv10 WW and beg hircine to dye your fur. I've heard that you have a 5% chance of hircine offering the color pink as a choice

Haha, almost suffocated with my coffee. ^^

iaintoff · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

So they are bad, straight up everyone knows this. Even when playing a WW it doesn't even feel right. The most useful thing about it is the speed.
I truly think for them to be good they need to have some serious changes worthy of skill points.

1st the damage. As a WW I expect to just melt everything I come in contact with, sad truth you don't. I'm v12 and struggling to take on a group of 3 v8 mobs, it's pathetic. I'm aware ZoS plans to up the damage on WW's and hopefully sooner than later. They should just set up a simulator with a target dummy and tweak it until they can pull at least 1k+ just swinging at v12.

2nd the survivability, The only thing that helps you survive in WW is your horrible dmg output, there is no AOE what so ever. After you kill something you can move around a body until your lucky enough to have the synergy pop up, and only 1 body per group that you kill. Then you can get a heal after combat. They should remove fear being an ability and have it be a chance on swing to proc aoe. Replace the ability with a pounce type ability that causes your character to pin the target down as you rip him to shreds, gaining health and leaving bleeding. Up the damage on the current pounce ability. Add more abilities like even more speed for a duration, call it hircines flight. An ability that gives health back for each swing and cleaves up to 6 targets for reduced damage, call it blood lust or something. Have one that summons wolves to fight by your side, and have one that gives every friendly WW in the area 100 ultimate if they have WW on their bar, with these changes they probably would.

3 the cost, make it 400 ulti 500 at the most.

I'm aware these are rather over powered but many tweaks could come with it. Like have WW's benefit the most from stamina builds (It states they do, I'm thinking its not entirely true). If you gain soft cap on stam you should have crazy dmg output in WW. This would eliminate mages running it. Also take into consideration that WW's are melee, to be a melee requires a lot in this game, and with that deserves an ungodly amount of dmg output. Werewolves should really be feared when seen, as of how the game is now they are laughed at. I was in Cyrodiil not long ago and me and 2 others seen a WW coming towards us, he died before he got close enough to even swing and I actually felt bad for him. With that said I've never seen a WW impress me, unlike vamps with bat swarm going 1v5.

It needs a massive buff no doubt, many of us would like the opportunity to mow them down in cryodiil. But can't coz they arnt.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

in case anyone was actually curious how you get to be a white wolf I think it's an age thing. That is my guess anyway. So if your character's age slider is not set far to the right, no white fur for you.

Nebthet78 · July 2014

I would like to see them move Transform out of the ultimates slot and make it a basic skill. We should be able to change at any time we want, like NPCs. Transform is totally lame as an ultimate and it takes far, far too long to gain the points to be able to use it.

In it's place as an ultimate, we should have something like Berserk where we completely spaz out on the enemy we are fighting, biting and slashing at them like crazy for a lot of damage.

Overall right now, I am completely disappointed in the werewolf.

30 seconds is far too short of a time to be in transformed form. It should be a minimum of 300 seconds. Then with each devour we should get another 300 seconds on top of it. Not another 10 or whatever it currently is, which isn't enough. Seriously, I would like my werewolf a whole lot more if I stayed in wolf form a lot longer. I'd actually be able to do something meaningful with it.

Taz · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

in case anyone was actually curious how you get to be a white wolf I think it's an age thing. That is my guess anyway. So if your character's age slider is not set far to the right, no white fur for you.

It's one of the WW morphs, actually.

I definitely think almost every werewolf wants at least a toggle.

I hope Zenimax implements that!

guldrik · July 2014

White ww...I am not sure ..but I thought I read it was call of the wild skill topped out gave you white ww .

guldrik · July 2014

Maybe call of the pack