Can we expect no lag with 200+ people or is it a server technical limit ?

Sotha_Sil · July 2014

So I'm playing on EU Bloodthorn.

Yesterday, there was a funny fight in Black Boot Castle where EP/AD/DC participated.

It could have been a really interesting fight considering the huge amount of people... However, 0 skills were actually working. People were trying to use their skills and all but it was like watching at each other and say "oh you don't kill me" " oh I don't kill you" "great" "let's keep doing this".

And then the Scroll fight.... REALLY HILARIOUS. A guy from my raid wasn't even in fight because he didn't take any damage and came in took the Scroll and came out like he would have done picking an apple on a tree. I just can't believe this.. the place was the most crowded of the whole map but lag issues made it stupid.

TL;DR

To sum up :
- There were approximately 200 people at the same place.
- We got big server lags : skills weren't working.
- In beta we used to see this and it was working perfectly fine. So I don't understand why on live we get issues like this.

My question is : is this the current technical limit ? can we expect this kind of fights working in the future ? Are NA servers getting the same issues ?

augyr · July 2014

I also wonder if this can be fixed.
I was there as well and was really surprised someone managed to pick up the scroll. Nothing was working for me anyway, no skills or siege.
Same thing for various other big fights yesterday in other locations.
It seems things get extra bad when zergballs come in spamming heals and impulse.
My FPS was still half decent btw... around 20 FPS. Seems to be server related for sure.

Sotha_Sil · July 2014

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

I know it's a technical question but do you have an idea why this happens ? If this issue is being adressed or if the game can't support 200 players at the same spot ? Thanks

AbraXuSeXile · July 2014

The DC guild that entered the battle was us, the lag was unreal. We are seeing this a lot more since the lag issues came into place, any fight with at least 24v24 turns into a spectacle of lag and the winner is how many numbers you have due to the AOE cap.

The fight though was a funny situation a shame the lag ruined it though, we have it frapsed so ill post it when its ready.

Lava_Croft · July 2014

The latency in EU-Bloodthorn during prime time is basically unplayable. Skills don't work, siege equipment doesn't work and often it just results in a rollback.

Koensol · July 2014

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The latency in EU-Bloodthorn during prime time is basically unplayable. Skills don't work, siege equipment doesn't work and often it just results in a rollback.

Not much different on Auriel's Bow

Sotha_Sil · July 2014

And server crash

kama_kib16_ESO · July 2014

Dont know if its up to date, 2k seems a little bit more then we have during locked server.
"PVP takes place in the huge central zone of Cyrodiil, and the obvious question is how many players can get involved. "We're planning on having 2,000 people at once in Cyrodiil," says Firor. "In a particular fight our client is optimised to have 200 players on-screen at one time, which means you'll have very large battles within an even larger battlefield."

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2013/jan/29/elder-scrolls-online-characters?view=mobile

okraus · July 2014

Of course i do not have any evidence but for me it feels more like a bug issue then some kind of latency problem. I will explain further...
Because of to the AoE-Cap it feels like when there are too many "Bomb-Squads" in one Area and too many player would be hit then the cap systems produces some kind of shutdown or call it "overflow" which results in nobody can be hit anymore.
I am in TS with my group and we all experience the "rien ne va plus"-moment at the same time. Issues of latency would give players a variety of the moment when nothing works anymore. It would not happen for everyone at the same time.
The server collects and buffers more and more data which can not be operated because of Cap shutdown/overflow and then we experience a rollback or a crash.
Happened several times yesterday evening... and it sucked.

Lava_Croft · July 2014

Congratulations for finding a way to bring up the AoE caps.

ItsRejectz · July 2014

If it wasn't possible to do this without technical issues, then it shouldn't of been put in the game.

Bramir · July 2014

Zergballs ftw!

AbraXuSeXile · July 2014

Its only since they messed up the fps in THAT patch that this has been happening, must of been the quivk 'fix'

SBR_QuorTek · July 2014

I guess there is some sort of bottleneck, but I wonder about stuff, how about putting it onto a tesla server of some kind and widening the broadband... but honestly am not some kind of server nerd here hehe

Perphection · July 2014

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

So I'm playing on EU Bloodthorn.
- In beta we used to see this and it was working perfectly fine. So I don't understand why on live we get issues like this.
[/b]

Yeah, the amount of players in some of the weekend betas was absolutely insane. Maybe it was due to the lack of resources (stamina/magicka) and the fact that so few abilities were unlocked at the time due to current character levels but, he's right. Most of the time huge fights in beta were smoother than anything I've experienced since the game was release.

Sotha_Sil · July 2014

It makes me a bit sad if this issue stays. In GW2, we had 140 -> 180+ people on the same map at the same place, it didn't work well but I thought ESO would master it. When beta came I thought that was it. But now, in 4 months, the stability of the game in PvP hasn't evolved much and it is really saddening. I know these things take time but playing GW2 all over again wasn't my goal.

Lowbei · July 2014

we have a zos response on the lag issue and its cause

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122912/this-issue-needs-to-be-fixed-before-you-merge-the-servers#latest

PF1901 · July 2014

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

It makes me a bit sad if this issue stays. In GW2, we had 140 -> 180+ people on the same map at the same place, it didn't work well but I thought ESO would master it. When beta came I thought that was it. But now, in 4 months, the stability of the game in PvP hasn't evolved much and it is really saddening. I know these things take time but playing GW2 all over again wasn't my goal.

I'd go as far as saying it's more a devolution of stability than an evolution. I can't remember the lag being that bad? Must be a "newish" issue? Not going to speculate on the cause because I simply don't have a clue.

c0rp · July 2014

I remember huge battles in beta with no lag monster. Is one of the primary reasons I was so stoked about ESO. I have not had that experience since launch. @zos_brianwheeler

Lowbei · July 2014

... again, we have an official response to the lag issue, in the thread linked on this very page.

its baffling when the reason is known, and discussed, and linked, and relinked, etc... yet you still get people acting confused about why it exists.

baffling.

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

So I'm playing on EU Bloodthorn.

Yesterday, there was a funny fight in Black Boot Castle where EP/AD/DC participated.

It could have been a really interesting fight considering the huge amount of people... However, 0 skills were actually working. People were trying to use their skills and all but it was like watching at each other and say "oh you don't kill me" " oh I don't kill you" "great" "let's keep doing this".

And then the Scroll fight.... REALLY HILARIOUS. A guy from my raid wasn't even in fight because he didn't take any damage and came in took the Scroll and came out like he would have done picking an apple on a tree. I just can't believe this.. the place was the most crowded of the whole map but lag issues made it stupid.

TL;DR

To sum up :
- There were approximately 200 people at the same place.
- We got big server lags : skills weren't working.
- In beta we used to see this and it was working perfectly fine. So I don't understand why on live we get issues like this.

My question is : is this the current technical limit ? can we expect this kind of fights working in the future ? Are NA servers getting the same issues ?

The same thing happens on NA, and I don't even mean Wabba.

I love being teleported backwards with an empty magika bar, a non filled ult bar and not entirely sure how I got there.

PF1901 · July 2014

Lowbei wrote: »

... again, we have an official response to the lag issue, in the thread linked on this very page.

its baffling when the reason is known, and discussed, and linked, and relinked, etc... yet you still get people acting confused about why it exists.

baffling.

Is it? I read an official statement about ongoing discussions regarding the aoe cap. Nothing else. The reason is not known, it's speculation on part of the players as far as i'm concerned. Or did I miss something?

Lowbei · July 2014

PF1901 wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

... again, we have an official response to the lag issue, in the thread linked on this very page.

its baffling when the reason is known, and discussed, and linked, and relinked, etc... yet you still get people acting confused about why it exists.

baffling.

Is it? I read an official statement about ongoing discussions regarding the aoe cap. Nothing else. The reason is not known, it's speculation on part of the players as far as i'm concerned. Or did I miss something?

... its a thread about server lag and concerns about # of campaigns, with the following response.

"ZOS_BrianWheeler mod
7:30AM
There are discussions currently going on with the combat team about the AE cap and in relation to the question about server merges, in 1.3 we are taking the amount of campaigns down from 10 to 5.

clearly he was answering the only two issues in the thread, which were lag and campaigns.

seemed rather clear to me.

PF1901 · July 2014

Lowbei wrote: »

PF1901 wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

... again, we have an official response to the lag issue, in the thread linked on this very page.

its baffling when the reason is known, and discussed, and linked, and relinked, etc... yet you still get people acting confused about why it exists.

baffling.

Is it? I read an official statement about ongoing discussions regarding the aoe cap. Nothing else. The reason is not known, it's speculation on part of the players as far as i'm concerned. Or did I miss something?

... its a thread about server lag and concerns about # of campaigns, with the following response.

"ZOS_BrianWheeler mod
7:30AM
There are discussions currently going on with the combat team about the AE cap and in relation to the question about server merges, in 1.3 we are taking the amount of campaigns down from 10 to 5.

clearly he was answering the only two issues in the thread, which were lag and campaigns.

seemed rather clear to me.

I understand, just beg(ged) to differ

I'd be as happy as any other cyrodiil dweller if it would solve the problem(s) in question.

AbraXuSeXile · July 2014

Blackboot video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGoyE-RX4EA

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Blackboot video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGoyE-RX4EA

sums up everything I feel is wrong with the game

augyr · July 2014

That's some impressive impulse spam....

monden1980b16_ESO · July 2014

okraus wrote: »

Of course i do not have any evidence but for me it feels more like a bug issue then some kind of latency problem. I will explain further...
Because of to the AoE-Cap it feels like when there are too many "Bomb-Squads" in one Area and too many player would be hit then the cap systems produces some kind of shutdown or call it "overflow" which results in nobody can be hit anymore.
I am in TS with my group and we all experience the "rien ne va plus"-moment at the same time. Issues of latency would give players a variety of the moment when nothing works anymore. It would not happen for everyone at the same time.
The server collects and buffers more and more data which can not be operated because of Cap shutdown/overflow and then we experience a rollback or a crash.
Happened several times yesterday evening... and it sucked.

Had the same impression as well, as lag often appears when one or more of the impulse trains are near.

edit: The vid made me laugh... seems fun, I guess... needs years of practive I guess

era5or · July 2014

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

So I'm playing on EU Bloodthorn.

Yesterday, there was a funny fight in Black Boot Castle where EP/AD/DC participated.

It could have been a really interesting fight considering the huge amount of people... However, 0 skills were actually working. People were trying to use their skills and all but it was like watching at each other and say "oh you don't kill me" " oh I don't kill you" "great" "let's keep doing this".

And then the Scroll fight.... REALLY HILARIOUS. A guy from my raid wasn't even in fight because he didn't take any damage and came in took the Scroll and came out like he would have done picking an apple on a tree. I just can't believe this.. the place was the most crowded of the whole map but lag issues made it stupid.

TL;DR

To sum up :
- There were approximately 200 people at the same place.
- We got big server lags : skills weren't working.
- In beta we used to see this and it was working perfectly fine. So I don't understand why on live we get issues like this.

My question is : is this the current technical limit ? can we expect this kind of fights working in the future ? Are NA servers getting the same issues ?

I quite agree with the above, any fights with over 40+ on field even with distance set to almost minimum, it lags and skills either dont activate or are very late in activation, by which time the zerg of AOE has killed half if not all your defense.

regards to the flag capture and movement system, an improvement there would be once a player is killed and flag is dropped, make the flag have a timer, of a few mins where its unable to be picked up, this would allow for better small group zone battles out in the wilderness..

I would assume the issue with the above lag and lack of response is the server incoming que get jammed up and the priority isnt setup very well, its likely set to deal with first come first served, so anyone running aoe or macro keyed mouse and keyboards are on an instant win, as it will stack x number of requests into the que faster than someone waiting to pounce and do tactical take down of say a healer for example.

Easy fix would be to implement a load balance based on character requests per x seconds, most people due to ingame ui and skill cooldown timers can only process say 5-8 abilitys every 30seconds.

Just ideas but i do agree that the devs need to not only look at the way fps is performing still but also at how the incoming requests are handled to give not only better but also fair game play.

If someone could tag some devs onto this post be most great full, thanks.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO · July 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Blackboot video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGoyE-RX4EA

Terrible just terrible. Why even record that stuff do they think they are good? Poor game system no skill what so ever, zos needs to change stuff quickly as they are losing the pvp player base over this.

Prospero_ESO · July 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Blackboot video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGoyE-RX4EA

Yeah, shows pretty much everything what´s wrong with the game. ZOS should be ashamed.