So if we ask about Stamina and weapons imbalance for long enough it will get addressed?

jelliedsoup · July 2014

ZoS - do you want people who play this way,to not play? Kinda the feeling I'm getting, call it a hunch.

Sotha_Sil · July 2014

We know these changes take time but it is really too slow right now. If we have to wait 6-8 weeks for one change... it's never going to be solved and I'm afraid it will have an impact on the future of the game.

jelliedsoup · July 2014

The worst they could do is *** it up to the point where stamina has the advantage magicka currently does.

Crisscross · July 2014

Don't forget armor imbalances.

I can understand that these things take time, and balancing SHOULD be done carefully, but the thing is ZOS has shown us they're really not averse to sweeping, immediate changes when a glaring imbalance shows up. For example, the shield bash nerf, the vampire nerfs, the AOE cap, and even templar magicka regen pre-launch. All big changes that made huge differences in the landscape of the meta, implemented within weeks of the first forum threads appearing.

Now, however, we've had a huge dominance of staff+bathrobe for MONTHS, and we've really just been getting the tiniest of buffs (medium armor stamina reduction: heavy armor is still useless, and stamina skills themselves are still leagues behind magicka/class skills) and the tiniest of communication about it ("we make class balance changes very slowly because they can have a big impact on your play experience. We’re making changes carefully, but we are always watching feedback about balance concerns.").

When you consider that sort of behavior difference from them, it really looks like they're dragging their feet about making the "warrior" archetype viable, and it's really disheartening to people that want to play it.

TehMagnus · July 2014

It is being addressed. It's just not something that can be done over the night since any major change could break the game so they are introducing minor changes little by little until they find the right balance.

Nevertheless, if it makes you feel happy, you can keep posting about it and think that your 10000 posts made it happen.

Arsenic_Touch · July 2014

Well, given that this issue was brought up during the beta testing and they ignored it, I'd say it'll take until the mayan calender rolls over again for them to do anything.

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

ZoS - do you want people who play this way,to not play? Kinda the feeling I'm getting, call it a hunch.

Im expecting 2-3 months before the changes they talked about recently are implemented.

So thats half a year since release and much longer if you consider the problem was repeatedly pointed out in beta. I get careful, gradual balancing but this is riddiculous.

SFBryan18 · July 2014

Asking questions which are answered repeatedly does not deserve attention.

Koensol · July 2014

To be honest, the only thing I see Zos doing is slightly upping the damage or reducing the cost on some weapon abilities. I don't see them do complete redesigns on some skills, which is what is actually needed. There are a couple weapon/guild skills that are just *** beyond belief. Some examples:
- Momentum and more specificaly its morphs.
- Uppercut
- Trap beast (worst ability in the game?)

DeLindsay · July 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

So if we ask about Stamina and weapons imbalance for long enough it will get addressed?

You mean like the damage increase many Weapon abilities already got several patches ago? Or how about the change to Wind Walker in Medium Armor? I know, maybe you're talking about all the set bonus changes in 1.3 that CLEARLY favor Stamina builds? Or how about in the Quakecon video where they talk about wanting to raise base Weapon damage even more along with other Stamina balances to bring it in line with Magicka builds?

The title of this thread should be changed to (from ZoS's perspective) "So if we change enough with Stamina and Weapon imbalances for long enough will players finally notice we ARE doing something about it?"

Nivzruo_ESO · July 2014

Please buff bow damage, it takes me 3-5 seconds to kill someone. Usually by the time they die they are starting to get up from the initial stealth stun which is unacceptable.

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

The title of this thread should be changed to (from ZoS's perspective) "So if we change enough with Stamina and Weapon imbalances for long enough will players finally notice we ARE doing something about it?"

Trust me, players will notice when stam builds become competitive with magicka builds. For several months now, many people have been forced either into a playstyle they dont enjoy or a playstyle with subpar output. You wonder why they complain?

Fleymark · July 2014

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

The title of this thread should be changed to (from ZoS's perspective) "So if we change enough with Stamina and Weapon imbalances for long enough will players finally notice we ARE doing something about it?"

Trust me, players will notice when stam builds become competitive with magicka builds. For several months now, many people have been forced either into a playstyle they dont enjoy or a playstyle with subpar output. You wonder why they complain?

It's not even subpar. There is very little high end endgame content in this game and what little of it is pretty much excludes stamina builds because they, in the vast majority of cases, can't do the dps needed for the group to complete it. So unless you are the remarkable exception that has found a build and playstyle that meets this dps benchmark, have friends who will carry you, or capitulate and switch to a magicka build, you are sol.

Then people come here and post that they can't get pickup groups and everyone screams about elitism etc. It's not elitism to want to be able to actually complete content. It's a problem with balance and, probably, larger issues with the design of the game.

Technical issues aside, there really is no more higher priority in a game than basic balance. Yet everything in the world is more important to these developers than substantially addressing it. They even say in every road ahead now that it'ssomething they are going to address "incrementally." It's just ridiculous.

I removed my credit card from billing earlier this month and it's up in a couple of days. I'm seriously debating voting with my money and just not playing till they actually do something about this.

Vuron · July 2014

ZOS clearly knows about the issue with Stamina/Weapon builds.

There are minor issues that can be corrected in the next patch and then there are major combat redesigns which take quite a while. Unfortunately, a change this major isn't something that can happen overnight.

I, personally, have complained many times when they seem to implement changes without looking at the consequences and this is not a change that I would want to be half-done and throw the entire game back a few months.

At this point, I'd be happier if they just removed bows from the game. This would solve most of the issues.

Fleymark · July 2014

Vuron wrote: »

ZOS clearly knows about the issue with Stamina/Weapon builds.

There are minor issues that can be corrected in the next patch and then there are major combat redesigns which take quite a while. Unfortunately, a change this major isn't something that can happen overnight.

I, personally, have complained many times when they seem to implement changes without looking at the consequences and this is not a change that I would want to be half-done and throw the entire game back a few months.

At this point, I'd be happier if they just removed bows from the game. This would solve most of the issues.

As an archer, I wouldn't be happy about that in the least.

What on earth would that fix?

Kos · July 2014

I hope they fix it by 2020.

Vuron · July 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

ZOS clearly knows about the issue with Stamina/Weapon builds.

There are minor issues that can be corrected in the next patch and then there are major combat redesigns which take quite a while. Unfortunately, a change this major isn't something that can happen overnight.

I, personally, have complained many times when they seem to implement changes without looking at the consequences and this is not a change that I would want to be half-done and throw the entire game back a few months.

At this point, I'd be happier if they just removed bows from the game. This would solve most of the issues.

As an archer, I wouldn't be happy about that in the least.

What on earth would that fix?

I was half joking, but almost all the stamina issue complaints that I see are by people using bows. Maybe it's just because I read most of the NB threads, but this is just the impression that I get. I really don't see too many complaints about 2-handers or sword/shield, but I'm sure they exist.

Almost every "NB Balance" thread devolves into a discussion on how bad DW/Bow users have it, which really has nothing to do with NB issues, at all.

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2014

Vuron wrote: »

There are minor issues that can be corrected in the next patch and then there are major combat redesigns which take quite a while. Unfortunately, a change this major isn't something that can happen overnight.

Noone's asking for 'overnight' but when youre at night 100+ and the issue persists you start to become annoyed.

And do you really expect a major combat redesign for stamina skills at this point? I dont. At most well get some number tweaks on skill dmg.

Fleymark · July 2014

Vuron wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

ZOS clearly knows about the issue with Stamina/Weapon builds.

There are minor issues that can be corrected in the next patch and then there are major combat redesigns which take quite a while. Unfortunately, a change this major isn't something that can happen overnight.

I, personally, have complained many times when they seem to implement changes without looking at the consequences and this is not a change that I would want to be half-done and throw the entire game back a few months.

At this point, I'd be happier if they just removed bows from the game. This would solve most of the issues.

As an archer, I wouldn't be happy about that in the least.

What on earth would that fix?

I was half joking, but almost all the stamina issue complaints that I see are by people using bows. Maybe it's just because I read most of the NB threads, but this is just the impression that I get. I really don't see too many complaints about 2-handers or sword/shield, but I'm sure they exist.

Almost every "NB Balance" thread devolves into a discussion on how bad DW/Bow users have it, which really has nothing to do with NB issues, at all.

You'd have to be joking because Bow is about the only non staff weapon line that's viable past 50 and it's still subpar in comparison to staffs. Most people have gotten out of the other weapon abilities but then so it's what gets discussed. The exception being s/s for tanks, if any are still around. They are usually talking about heavy armor anyway. DW seems to be on equal footing with 2 hand as pointless at high levels so you don't see it discussed as much as bow. Or you do with bow because they fit the archetypical rogue or ranger build that many go for.

NBs do have issues, but they are exacerbated by the stamina issues and smoothed over by going with a magicka build.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Dont count on it. They need to hire an outside company like trion to fix this mess. never send a single player game to do a MMO's job.

moxiesauce · July 2014

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

We know these changes take time but it is really too slow right now. If we have to wait 6-8 weeks for one change... it's never going to be solved and I'm afraid it will have an impact on the future of the game.

I'm sure they are waiting to see how all the gear changes and soft cap changes will effect stamina builds before they tweak it further. If it's still an issue I'm sure it will be changed before update 4.

Arsenic_Touch · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Dont count on it. They need to hire an outside company like trion to fix this mess. never send a single player game to do a MMO's job.

So you want them to do worse?

VagabondAngel · July 2014

I assume the thread title is a typo and you meant "So if we ask about stamina and weapons imbalance for long enough we will get a dress?"

RianaTheBosmer · July 2014

Vuron wrote: »

At this point, I'd be happier if they just removed bows from the game. This would solve most of the issues.

You're kidding me right? What, should everyone run around with staffs? They have issues with all stamina weapons, not just bows.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Dont count on it. They need to hire an outside company like trion to fix this mess. never send a single player game to do a MMO's job.

So you want them to do worse?

It is widely know Trion is probably the best Dev team at implementation, turn around time for fixing and hands down put out the most vigorous update cycle of any MMo quality, consistency and and timelyness. All things ZOS is lacking. sorry but ESO is not going well . one spec game play for near 4 months now its been widely known amongst the developers for 3 months and well past 10 weeks they acknowleged the stamina and armor system is not performing as intended. and we have had a dozen nerfs to classes and a total of 2 fixes to the stamina lines, and a set bonus buff that didnt work so they changed the tool tip to reflect the broken values lol. i dont think Mythic with blind folds could do worse.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

VagabondAngel wrote: »

I assume the thread title is a typo and you meant "So if we ask about stamina and weapons imbalance for long enough we will get a dress?"

hahahahahhaha yes everyone knows cloth is stronger then steel. I really need a car made of hemp now!

firstdecan · July 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

ZOS clearly knows about the issue with Stamina/Weapon builds.

There are minor issues that can be corrected in the next patch and then there are major combat redesigns which take quite a while. Unfortunately, a change this major isn't something that can happen overnight.

I, personally, have complained many times when they seem to implement changes without looking at the consequences and this is not a change that I would want to be half-done and throw the entire game back a few months.

At this point, I'd be happier if they just removed bows from the game. This would solve most of the issues.

As an archer, I wouldn't be happy about that in the least.

What on earth would that fix?

I was half joking, but almost all the stamina issue complaints that I see are by people using bows. Maybe it's just because I read most of the NB threads, but this is just the impression that I get. I really don't see too many complaints about 2-handers or sword/shield, but I'm sure they exist.

Almost every "NB Balance" thread devolves into a discussion on how bad DW/Bow users have it, which really has nothing to do with NB issues, at all.

You'd have to be joking because Bow is about the only non staff weapon line that's viable past 50 and it's still subpar in comparison to staffs. Most people have gotten out of the other weapon abilities but then so it's what gets discussed. The exception being s/s for tanks, if any are still around. They are usually talking about heavy armor anyway. DW seems to be on equal footing with 2 hand as pointless at high levels so you don't see it discussed as much as bow. Or you do with bow because they fit the archetypical rogue or ranger build that many go for.

NBs do have issues, but they are exacerbated by the stamina issues and smoothed over by going with a magicka build.

I have to agree with this. I have a V12 DK, it's the main I've had since early access, and the weapon lines I developed were DW \ Bow \ Resto. I get higher DPS using my resto staff and class abilities than I can get using real weapons. This seems counter intuitive to me, looking at the skill lines it seems as if the intention was to have a path where melee combat would be supplemented by some magicka abilities, and on par with the direct damage class abilities. I would also think that melee would have higher damage than most magicka based abilities, since most magicka based abilities can be used at range whereas most melee based abilities require close proximity. The opposite is true though, melee (including bow) just does not keep up with magicka abilities.

Sighlynce · July 2014

Vuron wrote: »

At this point, I'd be happier if they just removed bows from the game. This would solve most of the issues.

... No.. Removing the bow fixes nothing $:\$ . So if we remove all stamina builds and all heavy weapons , the problems will be fixed ? Lets all be sorcerers and light armor Templars... Don't think so.

Crisscross · July 2014

Vuron wrote: »

...I really don't see too many complaints about 2-handers...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118270/2h-vs-dual-wield-in-pvp-state-of-play
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122439/two-handed-skill-line
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85533/2-handed-needs-to-be-buffed-entire-style-is-rather-terrible-atm
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/114297/yet-another-2-handed-weapon-skill-idea-thread

Just to name a few. I would guess that you don't see them around nowadays because they've really been discussed to death, but imo I would say that 2 handed and heavy armor are the most underpowered non-class non-crafting skill trees in the game.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Crisscross wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

...I really don't see too many complaints about 2-handers...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118270/2h-vs-dual-wield-in-pvp-state-of-play
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122439/two-handed-skill-line
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85533/2-handed-needs-to-be-buffed-entire-style-is-rather-terrible-atm
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/114297/yet-another-2-handed-weapon-skill-idea-thread

Just to name a few. I would guess that you don't see them around nowadays because they've really been discussed to death, but imo I would say that 2 handed and heavy armor are the most underpowered non-class non-crafting skill trees in the game.

for sure. i have no idea how this made it out of closed beta. and im baffled how they let it go on so damn long.

firstdecan · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Crisscross wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

...I really don't see too many complaints about 2-handers...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118270/2h-vs-dual-wield-in-pvp-state-of-play
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/122439/two-handed-skill-line
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85533/2-handed-needs-to-be-buffed-entire-style-is-rather-terrible-atm
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/114297/yet-another-2-handed-weapon-skill-idea-thread

Just to name a few. I would guess that you don't see them around nowadays because they've really been discussed to death, but imo I would say that 2 handed and heavy armor are the most underpowered non-class non-crafting skill trees in the game.

for sure. i have no idea how this made it out of closed beta. and im baffled how they let it go on so damn long.

ZOS only hires cross-dressers, that's why they want to see everyone in a dress.