Step One: You Attack Banker
dietlime
✭✭✭✭
Step Two:
Everyone in the room spams every skill they have, all of which are ready; all of which hit you as the single available aggro target.
Step Three:
Banking continues.
Recent concerns about the justice implementation have been...unfounded. Zeni, Bethesda; this is a professional company with high standards who assembled an experienced team.
Alternately, you get to fight the banker while everyone else continues banking as if nothing happened. See, things don't always have to be realistic in video games. Sometimes rules are unrealistic for practical reasons.
Not being able to kill quest-giving and merchant NPC's is an example of this.
Everyone in the room spams every skill they have, all of which are ready; all of which hit you as the single available aggro target.
Step Three:
Banking continues.
Recent concerns about the justice implementation have been...unfounded. Zeni, Bethesda; this is a professional company with high standards who assembled an experienced team.
Alternately, you get to fight the banker while everyone else continues banking as if nothing happened. See, things don't always have to be realistic in video games. Sometimes rules are unrealistic for practical reasons.
Not being able to kill quest-giving and merchant NPC's is an example of this.
14
-
david271749✭✭✭✭✭LonePirate wrote: »I thought bankers could not be attacked. Am I mistaken?
Yes, but they can't die.2 -
indytims_ESO✭✭✭✭I think it's kinda silly to say anything is 'unfounded' - when Zeni themselves said that the Justice system is 'a work in progress'.
We know -very little- about it so far, and it's still quite a ways off. Details can change. Please don't act like you know anything more than the rest of us - because you don't.
4 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because we needed a second thread on this when there's one up already discussing it. Good job!☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB3 -
Crisscross✭✭✭Zeni, Bethesda; this is a professional company with high standards who assembled an experienced team.
An experienced team that somehow, someway, managed to make plate armor worthless in a medieval fantasy game.
Personally I don't have many concerns over the justice system just yet.... but I'm just saying it's pretty justified if people have doubts.8 -
david271749 wrote: »LonePirate wrote: »I thought bankers could not be attacked. Am I mistaken?
Yes, but they can't die.
I never saw the question answered if a banker (or some other essential person) was attacked if it would not close out windows for people trying to use that characters services. (I was under the assumption they were not able to be attacked but I don't remember where I saw that.)
For example:
Banker gets attacked while you have the banking window open..then run around the desk to fight or yell for help and your banking window closes as they move.
So either these folks would have to be non-attackable
The windows stay open no matter what the character action
Or the window closes every time they are engaged
Anyone know where the answer to this is?2 -
1
-
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭kassandratheclericb14_ESO wrote: »david271749 wrote: »LonePirate wrote: »I thought bankers could not be attacked. Am I mistaken?
Yes, but they can't die.
I never saw the question answered if a banker (or some other essential person) was attacked if it would not close out windows for people trying to use that characters services. (I was under the assumption they were not able to be attacked but I don't remember where I saw that.)
For example:
Banker gets attacked while you have the banking window open..then run around the desk to fight or yell for help and your banking window closes as they move.
So either these folks would have to be non-attackable
The windows stay open no matter what the character action
Or the window closes every time they are engaged
Anyone know where the answer to this is?
There hasn't been. We've only been told that essentials will be unkillable but reactive, which seems to indicate that everytime some doof comes into the bank and starts spamming AoE's, everyone's bank window will shut down.
Doof gets killed by guards, we talk to bankers again ... for two seconds until doof #2 walks in 10 seconds later. Rinse and repeat.
Imagine this sort of crap happening in real life - you're at the bank, say, trying to get a money order. But it takes you three hours to do it, because disruptive people keep walking in, in ones or twos or maybe more, causing hell to break loose 30 seconds apart from each other, as cops rush in and out, and there's chaos all over the bank.
Now imagine you're Canadian, and don't have a gun for to off these guys on sight - the equivalent to having to be a guard (a cop with a gun) to fight back. Because unless you signed up with the guards, there isn't a damn thing you can do about these disruptive doofuses. (and you'll get arrested too, if you try.)
Yeah, I can imagine ZOS changing that reactiveness thing pretty quick, if they're dumb enough to include it in the first place.
Solution: Make special NPCs with obnoxious personalities. Anyone with a normal brain would rather pick fights with "Aggressive Drunk" "The Rude Jerkface who Calls you Names as you Pass By" "Rabid Preacher Who Rails at the Top of His Voice" (How many went out of their way to kill that jerk in Whiterun just to make their Skyrim game a bit quieter?), "Creepy person trying to give candy to the only kid in town", people like that, rather than some innocuous banker or merchant.
Edited by isengrimb16_ESO on July 25, 2014 10:25AM0 -
Dilly_Waffles✭✭✭Last I heard NPCs will be instanced. So if 'doof' comes in and tries to ruin everyones day, he'll only ruin his own.
If you kill an NPC, they only die in your game. But like everyone is saying, the justice-system is a work in progress. Nothing is set in stone. There's enough uproar about it right now when we're only speculating. Imagine if it goes to PTS and it's as bad as everyone fears, it'll have to be scrapped.
It'll be good or it'll be non-existent3 -
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Dilly_Waffles wrote: »Last I heard NPCs will be instanced. So if 'doof' comes in and tries to ruin everyones day, he'll only ruin his own.
If you kill an NPC, they only die in your game. But like everyone is saying, the justice-system is a work in progress. Nothing is set in stone. There's enough uproar about it right now when we're only speculating. Imagine if it goes to PTS and it's as bad as everyone fears, it'll have to be scrapped.
It'll be good or it'll be non-existent
We're only speculating. Who did you hear that instancing thing from? I heard it too - FROM A PLAYER who has been spreading that idea, with no backup from ZOS.
All we KNOW from ZOS is that they will be "reactive", with no mention of "phasing" whatsoever. We're all just talking about how we WANT it to be, and what we FEAR it _could_ be, because we're getting nothing solid from ZOS, or what we do get isn't anywhere near detailed/clear enough to NOT be interpreted more than one way.
That's the time I'll be downloading the PTS (I already have both NA and Europe on this thing); I do expect that this reactiveness thing will be so bad, it won't make it to live; PTS will be the time for non-griefers to pretend we are, and try to be as disruptive as hell in the banks so that this reactiveness thing gets changed while still in testing.
Edited by isengrimb16_ESO on July 25, 2014 10:32AM2 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Step Two:
Everyone in the room spams every skill they have, all of which are ready; all of which hit you as the single available aggro target... Well Except for the Banker and or any other NPC near the banker.
Step Three:
Everyone in the Bank is now flagged as a Murder.
FixedEdited by vyndral13preub18_ESO on July 25, 2014 10:38AM2 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Have you played any other Bethesa game? Have you played ESO before today? Just like every other company, they make mistakes: sometimes minor, sometimes serious, sometimes the kind that makes you wonder what the hell they were smoking. People have the right to be concerned, even if it might be a little too early for meaningful feedback about the majority of features.Recent concerns about the justice implementation have been...unfounded. Zeni, Bethesda; this is a professional company with high standards who assembled an experienced team.
I don't see a point in attacking an NPC who can't die. You either do it to purposely get a bounty - which seems strange, as there's a hundred better ways to do it, like killing someone who actually can be killed - or for the kicks/to cause a disruption. The second reason concerns me, especially because ZOS's only answer in a thread about the bank window shutting down every time was "the justice system will receive PTS feedback" (quote not exact). If they won't tell us, I'm afraid it's because they don't know... And if they don't know, we're in for a field day for griefers.
So I say make quest givers and vendors not-attackable. It's not going to inconvenience anyone, I mean we already can't kill them, so the outcome is the same.2 -
zgrssd✭✭✭✭
Step 0: The banker must even be attackable.Step One: You Attack Banker
There seem to be three basic relationships between NPC and NPC and players:
Friendly:
Green. Cannot be attacked.
Non-Agressive:
Yellow. No aggro reaction towarsd player. But can be attacked and will defend itself then. Very often used for disguises mode and "pacified the spirits/animals/wood creatures" phase of Quests. It allows you to be in the same phase as people who have not yet completed the quest and help them in combat, but you can also just walk through as if there was nothing.
Agressive:
Red. Can be attacked. Attacks player if he comse too close (aggro range).
Quest givers have never been anything but green.
If they nominally belong to a Red/Yellow Faction, they are still green.
Questgiver also exists on a purely personal level. You do not see my quest-characters, I do not see yours. We might have similar questcharacter in our views, but not the same.
They would have to actively change the bankers to be yellow (wich might break the whole conversation system).
Why by the 8 divines would they do that??? It would only make more work and much more problems.Edited by zgrssd on July 25, 2014 10:48AMElana Peterson (EU), Dominion, Imperial Sorc, Rune & Alchemy Crafting Char
Leonida Peterson (EU), Daggerfall, Kajiit Nightblade, Tank & main Crafter
Kurga Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Ork Dragonknight, Provision Mule
Coldblood Peterson (EU) Argonian Templer, Daggerfall, Healer
Incendia Peterson (EU), Dominion, Dunmer Dragonknight, fire DPS & healer
Haldor Belendor (EU), Ebonhart, Breton Sorcerer, Tank
Fuliminictus Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Altmer Sorcerer, Electric DPS
Me babbling about PvE roles and Armor, Short Guide to Addon Programming (for Programmers)
If you think anything I or somebody else said violates the Rules of this Forum, you are free to flag my posts. Till I get any notifcaion from this, I just asume you know you have no case against me or Zenimax disagrees with you.2 -
Vunter✭✭✭I have a revolutionary idea!
How about waiting they implement the justice system in the game and then we discuss?5 -
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I have a revolutionary idea!
How about waiting they implement the justice system in the game and then we discuss?
Because then it'll be too late, and it'll be weeks or months before they make bankers and merchants non-reactive.
Hopefully, they will see the forums, and not have attackable essentials even in PTS.
Edited by isengrimb16_ESO on July 25, 2014 10:54AM5 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭LonePirate wrote: »I thought bankers could not be attacked. Am I mistaken?
Yes, at this point you are mistaken. Unless they make a change, currently Banking npcs are attackable, but not killable.
1 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭
Have you played any other Bethesa game? Have you played ESO before today? Just like every other company, they make mistakes: sometimes minor, sometimes serious, sometimes the kind that makes you wonder what the hell they were smoking. People have the right to be concerned, even if it might be a little too early for meaningful feedback about the majority of features.Recent concerns about the justice implementation have been...unfounded. Zeni, Bethesda; this is a professional company with high standards who assembled an experienced team.
I don't see a point in attacking an NPC who can't die. You either do it to purposely get a bounty - which seems strange, as there's a hundred better ways to do it, like killing someone who actually can be killed - or for the kicks/to cause a disruption. The second reason concerns me, especially because ZOS's only answer in a thread about the bank window shutting down every time was "the justice system will receive PTS feedback" (quote not exact). If they won't tell us, I'm afraid it's because they don't know... And if they don't know, we're in for a field day for griefers.
So I say make quest givers and vendors not-attackable. It's not going to inconvenience anyone, I mean we already can't kill them, so the outcome is the same.
OR since ZOS made the important npc's that way - perhaps they have knowledge of a reason for it...as in you may be getting quests/contracts from DB or Thieves Guild to take out Stonefalls banker npc because he is really a front for the Mages Guild money laundering work etc!
1 -
Have you played any other Bethesa game? Have you played ESO before today? Just like every other company, they make mistakes: sometimes minor, sometimes serious, sometimes the kind that makes you wonder what the hell they were smoking. People have the right to be concerned, even if it might be a little too early for meaningful feedback about the majority of features.Recent concerns about the justice implementation have been...unfounded. Zeni, Bethesda; this is a professional company with high standards who assembled an experienced team.
I don't see a point in attacking an NPC who can't die. You either do it to purposely get a bounty - which seems strange, as there's a hundred better ways to do it, like killing someone who actually can be killed - or for the kicks/to cause a disruption. The second reason concerns me, especially because ZOS's only answer in a thread about the bank window shutting down every time was "the justice system will receive PTS feedback" (quote not exact). If they won't tell us, I'm afraid it's because they don't know... And if they don't know, we're in for a field day for griefers.
So I say make quest givers and vendors not-attackable. It's not going to inconvenience anyone, I mean we already can't kill them, so the outcome is the same.
OR since ZOS made the important npc's that way - perhaps they have knowledge of a reason for it...as in you may be getting quests/contracts from DB or Thieves Guild to take out Stonefalls banker npc because he is really a front for the Mages Guild money laundering work etc!
Yes some of this is speculation and yes I did ask for Zeni clarification.
And I have to say it is way too early on my end for the bold print. Forgive me if I am not entirely trusting of this system yet. I haven't been raging against it but I played enough MMOs, enough PvP servers, etc to know certain things tend to breed stupidity.
If the bankers are instanced for those that attack them (however the means) then bravo. I will STFU at that point and roll right on with it. If they are not...well that is going to be a problem.
I just wanted to see if anyone had verification on anything yet.2 -
LariahHunding✭✭✭✭You left out 4. PROFITT!!!"Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
1 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭Crisscross wrote: »Zeni, Bethesda; this is a professional company with high standards who assembled an experienced team.
An experienced team that somehow, someway, managed to make plate armor worthless in a medieval fantasy game.
Personally I don't have many concerns over the justice system just yet.... but I'm just saying it's pretty justified if people have doubts.
lol, epic post is epic.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant3 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭You do a heist, every player in the region lose 100 gold, and you get sentenced to be blocked at login for 5 days.
How fun.2 -
liquid_wolf✭✭✭✭Zenimax: "We have plans"
Zealous Players: "OMG You don't know what you are doing, you haven't thought about x,y, and z."
Zenimax: "It is going to be a while before implement these plans."
Zealous Players: "You'll ruin the game! You are going to chase away everyone and everything! Everyone is going to cancel!"
Zenimax: "We will be paying attention to feedback and testers responses."
Zealous Players: "WHY ARE YOU NOT LISTENING TO ME!?!?! You don't care and you never will!"
Brought to you by these forums.2 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Step Two:
Everyone in the room spams every skill they have, all of which are ready; all of which hit you as the single available aggro target.
Because people don't do this nearly enough already.
Personally, I'd hope for knockback via the clipboard or logbook in hand, followed by the classic greeting...Step Three:
Banking continues.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
c0rp✭✭✭✭✭
✭nick konkel said just last night..that there would be NPCs that are not affected by the justice system. I am sure the banker is one of them. This thread can be closed now.Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
Disable abilities while holding block.
Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.1 -
dietlime✭✭✭✭liquid_wolf wrote: »Zenimax: "We have plans"
Zealous Players: "OMG You don't know what you are doing, you haven't thought about x,y, and z."
Zenimax: "It is going to be a while before implement these plans."
Zealous Players: "You'll ruin the game! You are going to chase away everyone and everything! Everyone is going to cancel!"
Zenimax: "We will be paying attention to feedback and testers responses."
Zealous Players: "WHY ARE YOU NOT LISTENING TO ME!?!?! You don't care and you never will!"
Brought to you by these forums.
AUUHUGAUGHUGH
I HAVE PLAYED QUITE A FEW MMOMPEGERS IN MY DAY0
