So when's Dragon's Blood getting nerfed?

Maulkin · July 2014

So Smee is your complain about GDB? Standard combined with GDB as per your example? Or is it the whole DK class as you say in the next paragraph? I'm entirely confused, you seem to be angry at everything and nothing in particular at the same time. I've shown you how to do the same thing a DK does and better but you don't like it because you have to have a resto staff in your off-hand. Ok, staying ingorant is your choice, but using that as a basis to call for nerfs to other class's skills? Oh and all successful NBs run with resto staff by default. It's not a "limitation" to use resto, it's enabling you do do more dmg.

Shido being emperor in the most populous EU campaign I think says enough about his knowledge and experience of the game. I'd question your group's ability before I question that of the highest ranked player, I think that's reasonable.

Here's a vid from one of the best (if not the best) PvE guild in EU, called Hodor. And the video is from Medakon, the NB doing >1k DPS sustained on trial's boss fights.
http://www.twitch.tv/medakon/c/4523450
There's a whole thread about it at Tamriel Foundry a website where I believe (might be wrong) you're also a member of?

Oh and no Sorc can get close to that DPS. If you believe they can, show me the vid like I did. And all this does prove something despite what you want to believe, and that is that you don't know what you're talking about. Learn to play your NB before saying ridiculous things such as "NB needs to be buffed up to Templar level" ok?

I'll roll whatever class suits my purposes, thank you very much. The fact is I know more about your class than you seem to do, let alone my classes (Sorc & DK). Before asking for other class's skills to be nerfed learning to play yours first would give you a bit more insight.

Obscure · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

but I disagree, the DK is using class skills, why should I have to go outside my class and be bound by a weapon to compete. Furthermore, the DK can also tank very well, dps very well, and has very nice cc. It's not so much a matter of one ability being ridiculous, but ALL of them are a problem. You shouldn't be able to do all those things really well

For the same reason a the DK has to go outside of his class skills to compete. No gap closing aside from an Ultimate (and Reach is really a CC not a gap closer). No full ranged abilities (again Reach is designed to CC something into melee). So you have to dip into weapon lines for the same general reason Dragonknights have to: your class doesn't give you everything you need to compete.

Being able to DPS comes at the cost of Tanking and CC, and the same holds true for the later, since doing each optimally draws from the same resource: Magicka. However, if you spec pure magicka, wear a dress, and use staves you can do all three, regardless of class. So yeah I agree no one should be able to do all of those things, but your aim is not locked on the actual problem.

TheBull · July 2014

The amount of "l2p" in this thread says it all.

Update please Mr. Wheeler!

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

So Smee is your complain about GDB? Standard combined with GDB as per your example? Or is it the whole DK class as you say in the next paragraph? I'm entirely confused, you seem to be angry at everything and nothing in particular at the same time. I've shown you how to do the same thing a DK does and better but you don't like it because you have to have a resto staff in your off-hand. Ok, staying ingorant is your choice, but using that as a basis to call for nerfs to other class's skills? Oh and all successful NBs run with resto staff by default. It's not a "limitation" to use resto, it's enabling you do do more dmg.

I'm not angry about anything. I thought we were having a calm discussion. Is that not the case, lol at being forced to run resto to be an effective NB not being a limitation though, I think your manner of thinking has been made fairly clear.

Shido being emperor in the most populous EU campaign I think says enough about his knowledge and experience of the game. I'd question your group's ability before I question that of the highest ranked player, I think that's reasonable.

I wouldn't really count any EU server to be heavily populated enough to tell if someone is talented or not. And with all the emperor flipping that has been going on, pardon me if I question the skill of your sainted leader.

Here's a vid from one of the best (if not the best) PvE guild in EU, called Hodor. And the video is from Medakon, the NB doing >1k DPS sustained on boss fights.
http://www.twitch.tv/medakon/c/4523450
There's a whole thread about it at Tamriel Foundry a website where I believe (might be wrong) you're also a member of?

Oh and no Sorc can get close to that DPS. If you believe they can, show me the vid like I did. And all this does prove something despite what you want to believe, and that is that you don't know what you're talking about. Learn to play your NB before saying ridiculous things such as "NB needs to be buffed up to Templar level" ok?

I'll roll whatever class suits my purposes, thank you very much. The fact is I know more about your class than you seem to do, let alone my classes (Sorc & DK). Before asking for other class's skills to be nerfed learning to play yours first would give you a bit more insight.
I know my class well enough, thanks. I also know when I see defensiveness and desperate attempts to keep a broken mechanic going.

@Obscure DKs have chains to pull things to them as opposed to gap closing. If anything that would actually be better because you can pluck individuals from a crowd.

OtarTheMad · July 2014

I think Green Dragon's Blood is perfectly fine... if they added a cool down similar to Bolt Escape... yeah I'd be disappointed but I'd deal with it. Green Dragon's Blood though does not make DK's unkillable... I've killed plenty and when I'm on my DK I've been killed plenty. If they nerf DK's too hard then no one will play them... they are supposed to have the best survivability in the game of all classes.

If I had to make a list of abilities that need more attention it would be Necrotic Orb synergy and Vol. Familiar on the top of that list.

Maulkin · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I wouldn't really count any EU server to be heavily populated enough to tell if someone is talented or not. And with all the emperor flipping that has been going on, pardon me if I question the skill of your sainted leader.

First off, I love how you sidestepped the whole video invalidating your position completely. Selective replies are my favourite

Not only only have you demonstrated that you know very little about your class, but you've also just demonstrated that you don't PvP (or read Alliance War forums) too. Auriel's Bow in EU has been population locked, for all 3 factions, every evening since the FPS bug was fixed and of course it was the same before the FPS bug too.

All the more staggering that you offer opinion in matters you clearly have very little experience of.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I know my class well enough, thanks. I also know when I see defensiveness and desperate attempts to keep a broken mechanic going.

I also know when I see complete bias, stemming from lack of knowledge and playing ability, and I call it out.

Have fun

Thechemicals · July 2014

Obscure wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Not sure if this is known judging by the feedback im reading, but Dragonblood is affected by Dragonheart passive and by all gear that improves healing taken so its not actually 30%. Plus protip= Soulshine. This is where the power of dragonblood is coming from.

Didn't know soul shine worked for GDB. Thought it was just channeled abilities (ex: Dark Exchange, Soul Assault, etc.). Granted everything that effects healing increases GDB heals, though since GDB's value diminishes the more health you have these bonuses, which are all % based, reduce with it. I.E. 30% of 1000 is 300, and 30% of 100 is 30. Again the built in diminishing return in GDB makes it the only counter spam heal in the game. Even if you could cast it all day long, it's just a waste of magicka if your health is high, healing bonuses or not.

While casting or channeling you get 20% healing and damage. Works well with puncturing strikes for Templar too.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Soulshine+Set

I don't think they are Op though. Dk remind me of....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFIxLCJifw

Obscure · July 2014

@smeeprocketnub19_ESO
Come now. You and I both know a DK is much better suited to charging in and dropping his melee AoE's on multiple targets than burning resources yanking one target. Reach is a meh, so what? skill and since the Nerf to it's axis is a meh, so what?² skill.

Still no viable ranged DK abilities so even if I just go ahead and give you Fiery Reach as a gap closer, even though it can be blocked, is negated by CC immunity, and is interior to every other gap closer, a DK is still screwed at range unless he goes outside his class skills. Yes, he has reflective scales to defend himself, but if you don't shoot projectiles he may as well be dumping his magicka down a toilet.

No class is going to give you everything you need except for Nightblade, but they're underpowered as a cost to their versatility. Gap closing, survivability, healing, resource recovery, melee, and ranged, all in one package. Unfortunately that package needs some improvement...

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I wouldn't really count any EU server to be heavily populated enough to tell if someone is talented or not. And with all the emperor flipping that has been going on, pardon me if I question the skill of your sainted leader.

First off, I love how you sidestepped the whole video invalidating your position completely. Selective replies are my favourite

Not only only have you demonstrated that you know very little about your class, but you've also just demonstrated that you don't PvP (or read Alliance War forums) too. Auriel's Bow in EU has been population locked, for all 3 factions, every evening since the FPS bug was fixed and of course it was the same before the FPS bug too.

All the more staggering that you offer opinion in matters you clearly have very little experience of.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I know my class well enough, thanks. I also know when I see defensiveness and desperate attempts to keep a broken mechanic going.

I also know when I see complete bias, stemming from lack of knowledge and playing ability, and I call it out.

Have fun

Actually I haven't watched the video yet. It was some attempt to circumvent discussion about it, I was just posting on forums and hadn't gotten to it yet. If I wanted to avoid it I would have cut that part of the quote out. I will watch it now I think though, I just get so impatient when watching videos.

I don't usually read Alliance War forums because most of it is a bunch of posturing. I was reading it for awhile but it got tedious seeing people yell at each other about how their opponents were hacking.

I generally don't look at stuff for EU either because I don't play on it. However, the server has less people, so I did jump to conclusions on that, I will admit.

Saying I can't play and that's why I and everyone else who isn't a DK has problems is just avoiding the fact that DKs are far too powerful. A DK shouldn't be tanking 3 and 4 people when he's just standing there and not making any attempt to play strategically. That is the problem, flat out.

Jaxom · July 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Here's a vid from one of the best (if not the best) PvE guild in EU, called Hodor. And the video is from Medakon, the NB doing >1k DPS sustained on trial's boss fights.
http://www.twitch.tv/medakon/c/4523450
There's a whole thread about it at Tamriel Foundry a website where I believe (might be wrong) you're also a member of?

Oh and no Sorc can get close to that DPS. If you believe they can, show me the vid like I did. And all this does prove something despite what you want to believe, and that is that you don't know what you're talking about. Learn to play your NB before saying ridiculous things such as "NB needs to be buffed up to Templar level" ok?

I'll roll whatever class suits my purposes, thank you very much. The fact is I know more about your class than you seem to do, let alone my classes (Sorc & DK). Before asking for other class's skills to be nerfed learning to play yours first would give you a bit more insight.

Mike,

They were looking for a video of a NB beating a DK 1v1, not a NB doing 1k DPS in Trials. Apples and Oranges. I hit 980 DPS in Trials with a very specific build (the only one that works for NBs). It rely's on crits and having a heals so you can use Equilibrium without killing yourself.

This, does not equate the same thing in PvP. They are so completely different. NB's rely on crits to burst our targets down. With many people stacking Impenetrable on their armour, our PvP dps is well under 400 if the fight goes longer than 5s. I hit a DK with our Ultimate Soul Harvet, which is supposed to be our hardest hitting skill. It didn't crit (see Inpenetrable) and hit for 500 damage at 250% charge. 1 GDB and that ultimate is wipped out.

The only time I was able to sustain longer than a DK was when I was running Mass Hysteria and our Shades. Shades (though dont do a lot of damage), will continue to hit and take a DK's stamina down while they hold block. You can hit them with the Fear through block and take a couple pop shots. The trick is to get a DK below 35% health, time the fear and execute the crap out of them before they can heal back up.

This is the only strategy that I've personally be able to figure out to kill a DK 1v1 as a NB. Hope this helps.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Here's a vid from one of the best (if not the best) PvE guild in EU, called Hodor. And the video is from Medakon, the NB doing >1k DPS sustained on trial's boss fights.
http://www.twitch.tv/medakon/c/4523450
There's a whole thread about it at Tamriel Foundry a website where I believe (might be wrong) you're also a member of?

Oh and no Sorc can get close to that DPS. If you believe they can, show me the vid like I did. And all this does prove something despite what you want to believe, and that is that you don't know what you're talking about. Learn to play your NB before saying ridiculous things such as "NB needs to be buffed up to Templar level" ok?

I'll roll whatever class suits my purposes, thank you very much. The fact is I know more about your class than you seem to do, let alone my classes (Sorc & DK). Before asking for other class's skills to be nerfed learning to play yours first would give you a bit more insight.

Mike,

They were looking for a video of a NB beating a DK 1v1, not a NB doing 1k DPS in Trials. Apples and Oranges. I hit 980 DPS in Trials with a very specific build (the only one that works for NBs). It rely's on crits and having a heals so you can use Equilibrium without killing yourself.

This, does not equate the same thing in PvP. They are so completely different. NB's rely on crits to burst our targets down. With many people stacking Impenetrable on their armour, our PvP dps is well under 400 if the fight goes longer than 5s. I hit a DK with our Ultimate Soul Harvet, which is supposed to be our hardest hitting skill. It didn't crit (see Inpenetrable) and hit for 500 damage at 250% charge. 1 GDB and that ultimate is wipped out.

The only time I was able to sustain longer than a DK was when I was running Mass Hysteria and our Shades. Shades (though dont do a lot of damage), will continue to hit and take a DK's stamina down while they hold block. You can hit them with the Fear through block and take a couple pop shots. The trick is to get a DK below 35% health, time the fear and execute the crap out of them before they can heal back up.

This is the only strategy that I've personally be able to figure out to kill a DK 1v1 as a NB. Hope this helps.

that helps a lot. I was positive those shades were worthless. I didn't even consider using them for that. hmm

That such a situational couple of abiltiies to keep up tho. I mean Mass Hysteria is useful, but is shade ever useful outside of that? I respecced out of it.

Jaxom · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Here's a vid from one of the best (if not the best) PvE guild in EU, called Hodor. And the video is from Medakon, the NB doing >1k DPS sustained on trial's boss fights.
http://www.twitch.tv/medakon/c/4523450
There's a whole thread about it at Tamriel Foundry a website where I believe (might be wrong) you're also a member of?

Oh and no Sorc can get close to that DPS. If you believe they can, show me the vid like I did. And all this does prove something despite what you want to believe, and that is that you don't know what you're talking about. Learn to play your NB before saying ridiculous things such as "NB needs to be buffed up to Templar level" ok?

I'll roll whatever class suits my purposes, thank you very much. The fact is I know more about your class than you seem to do, let alone my classes (Sorc & DK). Before asking for other class's skills to be nerfed learning to play yours first would give you a bit more insight.

Mike,

They were looking for a video of a NB beating a DK 1v1, not a NB doing 1k DPS in Trials. Apples and Oranges. I hit 980 DPS in Trials with a very specific build (the only one that works for NBs). It rely's on crits and having a heals so you can use Equilibrium without killing yourself.

This, does not equate the same thing in PvP. They are so completely different. NB's rely on crits to burst our targets down. With many people stacking Impenetrable on their armour, our PvP dps is well under 400 if the fight goes longer than 5s. I hit a DK with our Ultimate Soul Harvet, which is supposed to be our hardest hitting skill. It didn't crit (see Inpenetrable) and hit for 500 damage at 250% charge. 1 GDB and that ultimate is wipped out.

The only time I was able to sustain longer than a DK was when I was running Mass Hysteria and our Shades. Shades (though dont do a lot of damage), will continue to hit and take a DK's stamina down while they hold block. You can hit them with the Fear through block and take a couple pop shots. The trick is to get a DK below 35% health, time the fear and execute the crap out of them before they can heal back up.

This is the only strategy that I've personally be able to figure out to kill a DK 1v1 as a NB. Hope this helps.

that helps a lot. I was positive those shades were worthless. I didn't even consider using them for that. hmm

That such a situation couple of abiltiies to keep up tho. I mean Mass Hysteria is useful, but is shade ever useful outside of that? I respecced out of it.

When you combine shades with Mass Hysteria, they are taking a pretty big attack debuff between the two. I believe Mass Hysteria reduces their attack power by 30% for 4s as well? Also, they have to use the hard stamina breakout to break the fear, this also takes a large chunk of stamina out. This strategy works best in a stamina build since you can save your magicka for Impale, Fear, and Shades, while hitting them with whichever is your weapon of choice.

Hitting them with a Poison Arrow (reduce healing), then swap to dual wield or 2-hander to chip away.

Though, this is sort of the root of the problem I was mentioning earlier. You CAN kill a DK 1v1, but you need to spec specifically for it (like this strategy).

cracker81 · July 2014

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

cracker81 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

cracker81 wrote: »

Then it is not dk you should want to Nerf but fix armor.

No, you misunderstood. It`s the lack of counters in combination with great sustain given to the class, not the setup. Ever played GW2 for example?

Imagine a 25-30-0-0-15 backstab thief vs a point def guard (basically most glassy class & build vs most tanky class & build). Both are given tools to either finish the fight quickly or stall forever, depending on how well they used their tools. The guard had to time his dodges/blocks (which lasted just 2-3 seconds and had CD) to directly counter the deadly spikes of the thief. If he messed up hitting the right timing window, he`d likely lose.

A DK on the other hand will just RMB all the way, no stress, just press either scales or blood when you feel bored or pressured and it`s hopeless to quickly end it for any opponent, no matter how glassy he`s build, until the minute long ressource war is decided. That`s a bit too easy for my taste.

Best regards

well I am a tank in pve and pvp in heavy/ light. Seems right to me. I don't put much dmg out and expect to live longer than a dps spec.

Of course, but I would like to make you work and think a bit harder for being as tanky as you are

Give me your class and I can name a lot that needs Nerf. To easy to find something. The real reason why is becuz you got destroy by a dk. Here roll a dk and you will still get destroyed by whoever killed you. I been in groups that ppl should or need to read more about their class. That goes for pve and pvp. It is sad when a tank is out dpsing a dps, was only using taunt and regular attack. Then you have ppl that say they can heal but you never receive a heal in a dungeon. I am sure most of the forums are filled with this type of players asking for nerfs. What am I saying L2P quit qq about how bad you are.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Here's a vid from one of the best (if not the best) PvE guild in EU, called Hodor. And the video is from Medakon, the NB doing >1k DPS sustained on trial's boss fights.
http://www.twitch.tv/medakon/c/4523450
There's a whole thread about it at Tamriel Foundry a website where I believe (might be wrong) you're also a member of?

Oh and no Sorc can get close to that DPS. If you believe they can, show me the vid like I did. And all this does prove something despite what you want to believe, and that is that you don't know what you're talking about. Learn to play your NB before saying ridiculous things such as "NB needs to be buffed up to Templar level" ok?

I'll roll whatever class suits my purposes, thank you very much. The fact is I know more about your class than you seem to do, let alone my classes (Sorc & DK). Before asking for other class's skills to be nerfed learning to play yours first would give you a bit more insight.

Mike,

They were looking for a video of a NB beating a DK 1v1, not a NB doing 1k DPS in Trials. Apples and Oranges. I hit 980 DPS in Trials with a very specific build (the only one that works for NBs). It rely's on crits and having a heals so you can use Equilibrium without killing yourself.

This, does not equate the same thing in PvP. They are so completely different. NB's rely on crits to burst our targets down. With many people stacking Impenetrable on their armour, our PvP dps is well under 400 if the fight goes longer than 5s. I hit a DK with our Ultimate Soul Harvet, which is supposed to be our hardest hitting skill. It didn't crit (see Inpenetrable) and hit for 500 damage at 250% charge. 1 GDB and that ultimate is wipped out.

The only time I was able to sustain longer than a DK was when I was running Mass Hysteria and our Shades. Shades (though dont do a lot of damage), will continue to hit and take a DK's stamina down while they hold block. You can hit them with the Fear through block and take a couple pop shots. The trick is to get a DK below 35% health, time the fear and execute the crap out of them before they can heal back up.

This is the only strategy that I've personally be able to figure out to kill a DK 1v1 as a NB. Hope this helps.

that helps a lot. I was positive those shades were worthless. I didn't even consider using them for that. hmm

That such a situation couple of abiltiies to keep up tho. I mean Mass Hysteria is useful, but is shade ever useful outside of that? I respecced out of it.

When you combine shades with Mass Hysteria, they are taking a pretty big attack debuff between the two. I believe Mass Hysteria reduces their attack power by 30% for 4s as well? Also, they have to use the hard stamina breakout to break the fear, this also takes a large chunk of stamina out. This strategy works best in a stamina build since you can save your magicka for Impale, Fear, and Shades, while hitting them with whichever is your weapon of choice.

Hitting them with a Poison Arrow (reduce healing), then swap to dual wield or 2-hander to chip away.

Though, this is sort of the root of the problem I was mentioning earlier. You CAN kill a DK 1v1, but you need to spec specifically for it (like this strategy).

exactly. And then you have every DK on this thread who thinks that's a reasonable requirement to take them out. I completely understand needing strategy if my opponent is a skilled player, but they don't have to be skilled as a DK for this to be necessary.

Maulkin · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I generally don't look at stuff for EU either because I don't play on it. However, the server has less people, so I did jump to conclusions on that, I will admit.

I don't know if EU server has less people. ZOS have said nothing about subscriptions or # of players per server so anything on that matter is conjecture.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Saying I can't play and that's why I and everyone else who isn't a DK has problems is just avoiding the fact that DKs are far too powerful. A DK shouldn't be tanking 3 and 4 people when he's just standing there and not making any attempt to play strategically. That is the problem, flat out.

Well, first you said Sorcs had higher DPS than NBs and that they had better AoE. Both are so far from the truth that too options are possible: a) you don't know b) you're lying. I give you the benefit of the doubt and say you don't know your class well enough. If you say you do, it means you're lying. There's no 3rd option here, choose one, really.

If anything you told me how you lost 12 people from your raid to a DK Vamp Emp, as further example of bad playing. This is not me just randomly throwing the "l2p" card. You've given me solid examples that back my position up.

I've explained to you how with 1 ultimate and 1 skill the NB can tank better than a DK using 1 ultimate and 1 skill. You choose to ignore that and rant on about the DKs ability to tank 4 bad players for an x amount of time for the last 10 posts. Some people ignore that facts cause it don't suit their argument and this is a perfect example. Gimme 2 vet NBs on voice chat against a v12 DK and he won't last 5 secs. If you can't do that with the burst DPS at your disposal, quite frankly you're doing something wrong.

To reply to what you said before ("My complaint isn't about standard, it's about GDB, the topic we are on"), the GDB is in no way overpowered. It does not need an adjustment in any way, shape or form. I say that not only as a DK but as someone who also plays a Sorc and played a Templar extensively in beta.

To answer you general concern about DKs: The DK as a class is really better than your NB (and other classes in fact) at two things a) tanking b) being part of zerg-ball. The DK has too many synergies and group buffs that make it a beast in zerg situations. However, GDB is not even an ability on either of my bars when I "zerg".

The DK is worse than your class at: a) escaping b) kiting c) ganking. I play with my DK more because I'm part of a PvP zerg most of the time and the class better suits my style of play. Second would be the Vamp Sorc, which is the reason I've rolled one too.

As a solo 1v1 fighter on the other hand, my DK is not superior to an NB or in fact a Templar. There are videos from 1v1 tournaments from established players on your server of choice (NA) that back this up. NBs and Templars holding their own, 1v1 against DKs. If my style of play was small group or solo, DK would not have been my choice.

TL;DR; You're directing your DK "hate" at the wrong skills, primarily because you don't know the class or the other classes well enough.

Durham · July 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

kb.lang_ESO wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Just quit and then you wont have to worry about it any more. NB's seem to do fine against me if they play their role right. Might want to study up.

Agreed, dragons blood only restores 30% of missing health.

the spammability is the problem. not the effects of the ability.

Spam it and your out of magicka plus ...it only restores 30% missing health. At 50% health with 3000 hits it heals for 500 hit again and it heals for 150.. keep in mind DKs have absulutly no escape ability. They become a crap class with out surviability They have no range so you take the survivablity out then how are they suppose to get close enough to do anything... Please learn your classes.. The overall winner of the 10k duels was a Temp. Honestly lately i have seen NB taking DK out in 4 secs if they cant they disappear..Sorcs doing massive range dps and they still have a get away....I have seen some amazing temps latey.... DK in light is the issue at hand stop talking a about the class nerfs ....what about sticks and cloth lol....

Obscure · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Here's a vid from one of the best (if not the best) PvE guild in EU, called Hodor. And the video is from Medakon, the NB doing >1k DPS sustained on trial's boss fights.
http://www.twitch.tv/medakon/c/4523450
There's a whole thread about it at Tamriel Foundry a website where I believe (might be wrong) you're also a member of?

Oh and no Sorc can get close to that DPS. If you believe they can, show me the vid like I did. And all this does prove something despite what you want to believe, and that is that you don't know what you're talking about. Learn to play your NB before saying ridiculous things such as "NB needs to be buffed up to Templar level" ok?

I'll roll whatever class suits my purposes, thank you very much. The fact is I know more about your class than you seem to do, let alone my classes (Sorc & DK). Before asking for other class's skills to be nerfed learning to play yours first would give you a bit more insight.

Mike,

They were looking for a video of a NB beating a DK 1v1, not a NB doing 1k DPS in Trials. Apples and Oranges. I hit 980 DPS in Trials with a very specific build (the only one that works for NBs). It rely's on crits and having a heals so you can use Equilibrium without killing yourself.

This, does not equate the same thing in PvP. They are so completely different. NB's rely on crits to burst our targets down. With many people stacking Impenetrable on their armour, our PvP dps is well under 400 if the fight goes longer than 5s. I hit a DK with our Ultimate Soul Harvet, which is supposed to be our hardest hitting skill. It didn't crit (see Inpenetrable) and hit for 500 damage at 250% charge. 1 GDB and that ultimate is wipped out.

The only time I was able to sustain longer than a DK was when I was running Mass Hysteria and our Shades. Shades (though dont do a lot of damage), will continue to hit and take a DK's stamina down while they hold block. You can hit them with the Fear through block and take a couple pop shots. The trick is to get a DK below 35% health, time the fear and execute the crap out of them before they can heal back up.

This is the only strategy that I've personally be able to figure out to kill a DK 1v1 as a NB. Hope this helps.

that helps a lot. I was positive those shades were worthless. I didn't even consider using them for that. hmm

That such a situation couple of abiltiies to keep up tho. I mean Mass Hysteria is useful, but is shade ever useful outside of that? I respecced out of it.

When you combine shades with Mass Hysteria, they are taking a pretty big attack debuff between the two. I believe Mass Hysteria reduces their attack power by 30% for 4s as well? Also, they have to use the hard stamina breakout to break the fear, this also takes a large chunk of stamina out. This strategy works best in a stamina build since you can save your magicka for Impale, Fear, and Shades, while hitting them with whichever is your weapon of choice.

Hitting them with a Poison Arrow (reduce healing), then swap to dual wield or 2-hander to chip away.

Though, this is sort of the root of the problem I was mentioning earlier. You CAN kill a DK 1v1, but you need to spec specifically for it (like this strategy).

exactly. And then you have every DK on this thread who thinks that's a reasonable requirement to take them out. I completely understand needing strategy if my opponent is a skilled player, but they don't have to be skilled as a DK for this to be necessary.

Dragonknight has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling. The things I've been doing with my DK since well before launch include build elements no other DK I've yet encountered uses. You can build to counter the cookie cutter DKs but the second you do you fail to build to counter my DK.

Point is there's no one size fits all counter play build strategy. My builds vulnerability is against those that are more mobile, use high doses of AoE, and lean heavily on non-projectole attacks. But for what the build lacks in counters I make up for in skill. That's where skill belongs in the hierarchy. I don't need to be better than you to best you with a better build. I only need to be better than you to best you with a lesser build.

Just keep in mind that if skill was all that mattered we wouldn't have passives, levels, or gear progression. There's simply no version of ESO that ZOS has the ability or creativity of producing that would ever put skill in play above build strategy. Only you can do that, and skill on such a level is something I'm rarely confronted by...I can safely say I've only seen it twice personally and both of those players left the game some time ago. It likely wasn't challenging enough for them. It rarely is for me and I just consider myself "skilled enough" rather than "highly skilled"...though I'm frequently told otherwise I'd prefer to just think those telling me so are simply not very skilled, or at least don't know enough to see the difference between myself and those who are better.

Durham · July 2014

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

NookyZooky wrote: »

kb.lang_ESO wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Just quit and then you wont have to worry about it any more. NB's seem to do fine against me if they play their role right. Might want to study up.

Agreed, dragons blood only restores 30% of missing health.

the spammability is the problem. not the effects of the ability.

Um.... what?

Do you understand math? (specifically, percentages)

If you are at 40% health (meaning, you are DOWN 60%), then you get back 30% of 60%, or 20% of your total health. You are now at 60% (meaning, DOWN 40%).

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 40%, or 13%. You are now at 73% (meaning, DOWN 27 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 27%, or 9%. You are now at 82% (meaning, DOWN 18 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 18%, or 6%. You are now at 88% (meaning, DOWN 12 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 12%, or 4%. You are now at 92% (meaning, DOWN 8 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 8%, or 2.6%. You are now at 94-95% (meaning, DOWN 5 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 5%, or 1.6%. You are now at 96% (meaning, DOWN 4 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 4%, or 1.3%. You are now at 97% (meaning, DOWN 3 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 3%, or 1%. You are now at 98% (meaning, DOWN 2 %)

"Spam..... I do not thin' that word means what you thin' it means." - Enigo Montoya

That example ignores the fact the opponent is continually burning his resources trying to kill the DK. So the spam really looks more like this:

40% health -> use GDB.
40% health -> use GDB
40% health -> use GDB

while the opponent burns his resources down to nothing.

Isn't it funny when someone criticizes someone else for "not knowing how to math" and then post such nonsense? hehehe

In any case, you are absolutely right and the aggressor is burning through far more stats than the DK who is just using his single ability to negate the damage of 3 abilities from the aggressor.

In the mean time the DK is doing no damage... He has used over 1300 magicka in those 4 spams ... he is sitting at or below 40% magicka if he is heavy he is sitting on empty..Plus he still not at full health.... keep in mind he has no where to go... You still have the option to get away plus you hit again this time with crit potion.. If guys want to nerf ... scream nerf on light... A DK in heavy is not op at all... A DK in Medium Light is better..... This has to do with the passives in light... .

.

Durham · July 2014

Sharee wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

NookyZooky wrote: »

kb.lang_ESO wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Just quit and then you wont have to worry about it any more. NB's seem to do fine against me if they play their role right. Might want to study up.

Agreed, dragons blood only restores 30% of missing health.

the spammability is the problem. not the effects of the ability.

Um.... what?

Do you understand math? (specifically, percentages)

If you are at 40% health (meaning, you are DOWN 60%), then you get back 30% of 60%, or 20% of your total health. You are now at 60% (meaning, DOWN 40%).

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 40%, or 13%. You are now at 73% (meaning, DOWN 27 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 27%, or 9%. You are now at 82% (meaning, DOWN 18 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 18%, or 6%. You are now at 88% (meaning, DOWN 12 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 12%, or 4%. You are now at 92% (meaning, DOWN 8 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 8%, or 2.6%. You are now at 94-95% (meaning, DOWN 5 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 5%, or 1.6%. You are now at 96% (meaning, DOWN 4 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 4%, or 1.3%. You are now at 97% (meaning, DOWN 3 %)

If you then "spam" it again, you get back 30% of 3%, or 1%. You are now at 98% (meaning, DOWN 2 %)

"Spam..... I do not thin' that word means what you thin' it means." - Enigo Montoya

That example ignores the fact the opponent is continually burning his resources trying to kill the DK. So the spam really looks more like this:

40% health -> use GDB.
40% health -> use GDB
40% health -> use GDB

while the opponent burns his resources down to nothing.

8 spams = 2700 + magicka i believe ... the only DK able to do this is all light with warlock... Still not sure th

Maulkin · July 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

Mike,

They were looking for a video of a NB beating a DK 1v1, not a NB doing 1k DPS in Trials. Apples and Oranges. I hit 980 DPS in Trials with a very specific build (the only one that works for NBs). It rely's on crits and having a heals so you can use Equilibrium without killing yourself.

Actually, correct me If I'm wrong, but nowhere have I seen them say they wanted a vid of a PvP 1v1. Where did you get this from? Can you requote? All I've seen is complaints about 1 DK tanking many players in PvP. And I've a explained a way for a NB to do the exact same thing, for less magicka, for longer, while doing more dmg.

I don't see why Trials are not an example of DPS? It's a card held against DKs so often. They too rely on Equilibrium, heals and hight crit. It's the only way to DPs trials, regardless of class. Same for Sorcs and they DPS far less than NBs

Jaxom wrote: »

This, does not equate the same thing in PvP. They are so completely different. NB's rely on crits to burst our targets down. With many people stacking Impenetrable on their armour, our PvP dps is well under 400 if the fight goes longer than 5s. I hit a DK with our Ultimate Soul Harvet, which is supposed to be our hardest hitting skill. It didn't crit (see Inpenetrable) and hit for 500 damage at 250% charge. 1 GDB and that ultimate is wipped out.

Buddy, if you're doing less than 400 DPS 2-3 secs into the fight, then excuse me but you're doing somehting wrong. Animation cancelling light attack with soul harvest or swallow soul and stacking a DoT like blood craze or whatever else will should push you just past the 500DPS mark before crits. And as always the NB has pretty high burst dmg coming from stealth, which is the defining thing about the class. So it depends how you start the fight too.

EDIT: I should clarify, this DPS is subject to the target not blocking. If the target is blocking the DPS drops below 500 for every single class.

Jaxom wrote: »

The only time I was able to sustain longer than a DK was when I was running Mass Hysteria and our Shades. Shades (though dont do a lot of damage), will continue to hit and take a DK's stamina down while they hold block. You can hit them with the Fear through block and take a couple pop shots. The trick is to get a DK below 35% health, time the fear and execute the crap out of them before they can heal back up.

This is the only strategy that I've personally be able to figure out to kill a DK 1v1 as a NB. Hope this helps.

If you're struglging with sustain 1v1 against a DK, you're gonna LOVE Templars. BoL is a better self-heal than GDB when there is no-one around to steal you heal. In any event, Smee's a example of 1 DK holding off multiple people is not a testament to the DK class, but a fine a example of how people complain about the other class because their're not very good at playing their own. I see 2-3 people spend 20 secs to take down a Templar ALL the time, is that a criterion for getting them nerfed?

Durham · July 2014

Temps are the bomb atm people have not caught the train yet.

prototypefb · July 2014

any uber powerfull heal spell should cast a debuff for 10-20 sec drop in damage 30-50%
like some templar 'holy crap' skills and dragon blood.
healers and tanks should have deacreased dmg output to be in par with pvp.
if you lock this debuff to certain spells there would be less 'god like' builds out there, more RP stuff

Maulkin · July 2014

prototypefb wrote: »

any uber powerfull heal spell should cast a debuff for 10-20 sec drop in damage 30-50%
like some templar 'holy crap' skills and dragon blood.
healers and tanks should have deacreased dmg output to be in par with pvp.
if you lock this debuff to certain spells there would be less 'god like' builds out there, more RP stuff

So basically if you decide to heal your DPS should drop so much, that you're just delaying your inevitable death.

And if you decide not to heal you should fight against classes like NBs who a) have better burst damage b) can kite you c) can escape if all else fails.

So, to sum it up you want to look at a DK in battlefield and think: this is very easy AP and if I muck this up I'll just get away anyway.

Thanks for posting this totally unbiased view. Really, thank you

Maulkin · July 2014

Smee, I'm not gonna respond to the same argument of a DK tanking multiple people with 0 skill for the 100th time. I've given you a response to that all of the 100 times and as you say, you just don't parse it. I've not thrown any insults beyond saying that your statements explicitly make me believe you're not a very good player.

I believe I've responded to any person who posted a valid argument in this thread after I started posting. Show me who I chose to ignore and I'll happily respond.

You say I'm full of it and talking BS because I say DKs are not the best 1v1. Well watch the duelling tourney in the US server for 100k gold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiAZahhrVbM
PS: It was won by a templar, and his setup is not dissimilar from what he'd use in normal play (ie. not-duelling)

This is the 2nd time I've provided video evidence disproving you and your fundamentally flawed position, yet you say I'm the one who's talking trash and BS and throwing insults around while you're the one having an actual debate. Wow, just wow.

How about you back-up your position with something of more substance than the "I saw many DKs tanking many people many times. DKs are OP. GDB needs nerf" mantra you keep repeating. Maybe then we can call it a debate.

prototypefb · July 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

So basically if you decide to heal your DPS should drop so much, that you're just delaying your inevitable death.

And if you decide not to heal you should fight against classes like NBs who a) have better burst damage b) can kite you c) can escape if all else fails.

So, to sum it up you want to look at a DK in battlefield and think: this is very easy AP and if I muck this up I'll just get away anyway.

Thanks for posting this totally unbiased view. Really, thank you

there needs to be seperation from heal, tank and pure dps.
hybrid builds should not be able to do all of above more effective than specialized chars. if you do dmg, don't tank/heal as much as tanks/healers etc.
atm it's dk/temps faceroll pretty much everything because they have what other classes don't sustain heal/dps+ insane tankability.

Xsorus · July 2014

Again.....if ya want to cause DK's problems..Put Diease Proc on your weapon

Hell you can even make it more annoying by not putting Crit on your weapon, but Powered instead.

Obscure · July 2014

prototypefb wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

So basically if you decide to heal your DPS should drop so much, that you're just delaying your inevitable death.

And if you decide not to heal you should fight against classes like NBs who a) have better burst damage b) can kite you c) can escape if all else fails.

So, to sum it up you want to look at a DK in battlefield and think: this is very easy AP and if I muck this up I'll just get away anyway.

Thanks for posting this totally unbiased view. Really, thank you

there needs to be seperation from heal, tank and pure dps.
hybrid builds should not be able to do all of above more effective than specialized chars. if you do dmg, don't tank/heal as much as tanks/healers etc.
atm it's dk/temps faceroll pretty much everything because they have what other classes don't sustain heal/dps+ insane tankability.

Each element of the trinity of DPS/TANK/HEAL comes at the cost of using the other elements in ESO by limitation of skill selection (10 + 2 ultimates) and by resource.

You can use your Magicka both defensively and offensively, but have to this split up the resource to dedicate to either. Stamina is used either defensively or offensively, and don't have a choice how to split the resource, you just have to use it defensively by default with the option to drain it further offensively.

This is how the system works for everyone except for one play style that involves wearing a dress and wagging sticks around in combat. Such a style has no need to use stamina offensively, so it sticks to the default uses, and uses Magicka for both defense and offense with exactly 0 tradeoffs in doing so.

As long as that is true the source of all your woes lies not with any single class or single skill. It will remain, and actually be more prevalent, even if they Nerf every skill in the game. Nerf the class or skill you only force more players to resort to the overpowered option as it gradually becomes the only viable option... either that or they quit like many already have.

Mojomonkeyman · July 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Smee, I'm not gonna respond to the same argument of a DK tanking multiple people with 0 skill for the 100th time. I've given you a response to that all of the 100 times and as you say, you just don't parse it. I've not thrown any insults beyond saying that your statements explicitly make me believe you're not a very good player.

I believe I've responded to any person who posted a valid argument in this thread after I started posting. Show me who I chose to ignore and I'll happily respond.

You say I'm full of it and talking BS because I say DKs are not the best 1v1. Well watch the duelling tourney in the US server for 100k gold:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiAZahhrVbM
PS: It was won by a templar, and his setup is not dissimilar from what he'd use in normal play (ie. not-duelling)

This is the 2nd time I've provided video evidence disproving you and your fundamentally flawed position, yet you say I'm the one who's talking trash and BS and throwing insults around while you're the one having an actual debate. Wow, just wow.

How about you back-up your position with something of more substance than the "I saw many DKs tanking many people many times. DKs are OP. GDB needs nerf" mantra you keep repeating. Maybe then we can call it a debate.

Uhm, that templar was using a duel build. Maybe not one you see commonly but he clearly set up both bars to duel with. Sustain/range bar and burst/cc bar (all single target and one ground based ae to cover his resto heavies vs invastion/taloning), do you do any duels at all or are you just trying to win a debate?

If you want to prove a point, you might want to compare DK to a class that isn`t known by players who are actually good at the game as being en par, if not stronger than DK in PvP.

Can`t believe there are people handing out insightfuls for that weak text of yours, while the really insightful advice by Xsorus i.e. two posts after yours got largely ignored.

I don`t think you`ve ever been into dueling or smallscale at all. AD Auriels EU here by the way, tell me about your raid of elite players. K.o.C.? Come on... All you guys do is zerging it up each day, every day. Never running less than 24. Shido tagged it up on the zergboard, yippie ya yay. Attendance? A+... Skill? Hum...

I actually think you made a lot of valid points, but your argumentation on other points is just as weak as you`re trying to make your discussion partner look like.

Best regards

cracker81 · July 2014

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

cracker81 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

cracker81 wrote: »

cracker81 wrote: »

Then it is not dk you should want to Nerf but fix armor.

No, you misunderstood. It`s the lack of counters in combination with great sustain given to the class, not the setup. Ever played GW2 for example?

Imagine a 25-30-0-0-15 backstab thief vs a point def guard (basically most glassy class & build vs most tanky class & build). Both are given tools to either finish the fight quickly or stall forever, depending on how well they used their tools. The guard had to time his dodges/blocks (which lasted just 2-3 seconds and had CD) to directly counter the deadly spikes of the thief. If he messed up hitting the right timing window, he`d likely lose.

A DK on the other hand will just RMB all the way, no stress, just press either scales or blood when you feel bored or pressured and it`s hopeless to quickly end it for any opponent, no matter how glassy he`s build, until the minute long ressource war is decided. That`s a bit too easy for my taste.

Best regards

well I am a tank in pve and pvp in heavy/ light. Seems right to me. I don't put much dmg out and expect to live longer than a dps spec.

Of course, but I would like to make you work and think a bit harder for being as tanky as you are

Give me your class and I can name a lot that needs Nerf. To easy to find something. The real reason why is becuz you got destroy by a dk. Here roll a dk and you will still get destroyed by whoever killed you. I been in groups that ppl should or need to read more about their class. That goes for pve and pvp. It is sad when a tank is out dpsing a dps, was only using taunt and regular attack. Then you have ppl that say they can heal but you never receive a heal in a dungeon. I am sure most of the forums are filled with this type of players asking for nerfs. What am I saying L2P quit qq about how bad you are.

What is your class? What wpns do you use? Skill line? Armor type? Level?

Jaxom · July 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

Mike,

They were looking for a video of a NB beating a DK 1v1, not a NB doing 1k DPS in Trials. Apples and Oranges. I hit 980 DPS in Trials with a very specific build (the only one that works for NBs). It rely's on crits and having a heals so you can use Equilibrium without killing yourself.

Actually, correct me If I'm wrong, but nowhere have I seen them say they wanted a vid of a PvP 1v1. Where did you get this from? Can you requote? All I've seen is complaints about 1 DK tanking many players in PvP. And I've a explained a way for a NB to do the exact same thing, for less magicka, for longer, while doing more dmg.

I don't see why Trials are not an example of DPS? It's a card held against DKs so often. They too rely on Equilibrium, heals and hight crit. It's the only way to DPs trials, regardless of class. Same for Sorcs and they DPS far less than NBs

Jaxom wrote: »

This, does not equate the same thing in PvP. They are so completely different. NB's rely on crits to burst our targets down. With many people stacking Impenetrable on their armour, our PvP dps is well under 400 if the fight goes longer than 5s. I hit a DK with our Ultimate Soul Harvet, which is supposed to be our hardest hitting skill. It didn't crit (see Inpenetrable) and hit for 500 damage at 250% charge. 1 GDB and that ultimate is wipped out.

Buddy, if you're doing less than 400 DPS 2-3 secs into the fight, then excuse me but you're doing somehting wrong. Animation cancelling light attack with soul harvest or swallow soul and stacking a DoT like blood craze or whatever else will should push you just past the 500DPS mark before crits. And as always the NB has pretty high burst dmg coming from stealth, which is the defining thing about the class. So it depends how you start the fight too

Jaxom wrote: »

The only time I was able to sustain longer than a DK was when I was running Mass Hysteria and our Shades. Shades (though dont do a lot of damage), will continue to hit and take a DK's stamina down while they hold block. You can hit them with the Fear through block and take a couple pop shots. The trick is to get a DK below 35% health, time the fear and execute the crap out of them before they can heal back up.

This is the only strategy that I've personally be able to figure out to kill a DK 1v1 as a NB. Hope this helps.

If you're struglging with sustain 1v1 against a DK, you're gonna LOVE Templars. BoL is a better self-heal than GDB when there is no-one around to steal you heal. In any event, Smee's a example of 1 DK holding off multiple people is not a testament to the DK class, but a fine a example of how people complain about the other class because their're not very good at playing their own. I see 2-3 people spend 20 secs to take down a Templar ALL the time, is that a criterion for getting them nerfed?

I suppose I was under the assuption that since we were discussing PvP, using a PvE example wouldnt really be relevant. Most DK's, Sorcs and NB, if built for PvE, can hit over 900 dps with little trouble.

I also didnt say I was doing less than 400 dps in 2s, I said we are lucky to hit more than 400 dps when it goes longer than 5s. I can hit 1000 DPS from stealth in 1-2s, it's when the initial burst doesnt work. Again, our problem is sustain in PvP. With everyone and their mothers stacking Impenetrable, I barely crit, if at all with 60% crit. You are comparing PvE numbers to PvP numbers and they are not the same. Soul Harvest does didly squat for damage if it doesnt crit and isnt used directly after an Ambush. I dont know how you are suggesting a NB can hit 500 DPS without crits in PvP. That is just ludicris.

I actually do not have any problems with Templars. They have worse sustain than NB's so once they blow their heals, they are screwed. Hold block while they charge you and you are fine. Smee's example has nothing to do with not being good at the class. I play the class pretty damn efficient and know it inside and out. Like I said, I can build to specifically kill DK's and have less trouble with it but I SHOULDNT have to. The Build would be terrible against the other 3 classes so it's simply not worth it. A DK can throw 2 skills on their bar and with little effort be very effective. The same cannot be said for anyone else.