SFBryan18 wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

couchkyle25_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

It seems like a lot of people are afraid to lose it. I mean, with so many abilities, why is that one so essential to keep from getting nerfed unless it was the one thing giving the upper hand. I say, make them work for their kills like everyone else. Nerf anything that is viewed as essential.

fine, then nerf NB Stealth, Templar Heals, Sorc Mana Regen as well. See how all of you enjoy that.

That's fine. Anything essential is over powered.

By that definition using any skill is OP. Me thinks you have no ***ing idea what your talking about.

I enjoy a good debate but your doing a fine job of weakening your every argument without my assistance. But don't mind me, please do continue. I enjoy using your posts as examples of thoughtless nonsense.

How could "any skill" be essential? If they all work equally well, none of them would be essential. It's called balance. When one skill is needed more than any other, there's something wrong with that skill.

I think you're overthinking this.

There are going to be some skills that are essential. It makes no sense for all your skills to be so so. If they are why not just use light/heavy attacks?

You tell me? Why are skills suppose to be better than weapons?

Because skills cost magicka and stamina and skillpoints. Whereas light and heavy attacks are there universally, cost nothing, and require no training.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I will settle for bringing everyone down to my level. What do you want me to say? What would be the unbiased response? NBs are in fact the weakest class so whatever direction everyone is going, they ultimately will either go up or be the standard.

Ha ha stop it, you're killing me!

Weakest class in what? NBs have the best burst damage, the best sustainable damage currently on a par with DKs (~1.1k on trial bosses), a mixture of ranged and melee skills, as well a decent escape method for when things turn sour.

NBs are currently slightly better than Sorcs and well, well above Templars who can really only get in PvE or PvP groups as healers.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Even if I wasn't a NB I would say that.

Sure you would. And I'm the Pope

SFBryan18 wrote: »

couchkyle25_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

It seems like a lot of people are afraid to lose it. I mean, with so many abilities, why is that one so essential to keep from getting nerfed unless it was the one thing giving the upper hand. I say, make them work for their kills like everyone else. Nerf anything that is viewed as essential.

fine, then nerf NB Stealth, Templar Heals, Sorc Mana Regen as well. See how all of you enjoy that.

That's fine. Anything essential is over powered.

Umm no. lol These essential skills that everyone talks about are to counter other classes. Every DK that rapes me in pvp uses Green Dragons Blood and reflective scales. They use them to counter certain builds. GDB is a counter to NB burst, NB have the best burst in the game btw. Reflective scales counters range. It is necessary for the DK because they have no ranged class skills. Smart players slot counters.

Good templars slot eclipse and blazing shield to counter other builds. Should those too abilities be nerfed? Absolutely not. The bug where Blazing shield will occasionally hit for 3k needs to go, but the ability is a counter to melee, specifically DKs and is fine how it is. Those are "essential" abilities.

If you are a Nightblade you can gank pretty well. If you are only having problems with DKs and not Templars then you don't fight many good templars, and if you aren't slotting a counter to tanky self healing builds that is your problem. Use your fear to break block, or use your shades and light attacks while they block to eat their stam. When they are out of stam unload on them stun them and execute them. If you slot abilities to counter other builds you will have more success. simple as that. Sometimes you will lose sometimes you will win, but getting beat and crying for nerfs is not productive.

I've seen DKs get beat 1v1. I've died on my DK 1v1. I've died on my templar 1v1. I've wrecked 5-6 people on both of them by myself. Some of the people I've wrecked by myself were DKs. I don't think nerfing GDB is the answer. I think my templar heals are stronger. I get the frustration because you blew your load early and he hit one button and all your "work" was negated, but that is the way it works sometimes.

The game isn't perfectly balanced. It never will be. The biggest issue right now though is armor. Resto + light armor allows classes to have way more magicka than they should. To everyone arguing that every class isn't OP with that set up. Please stop kidding yourselves. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean other players can't either. DK may have a lower skill cap than the other classes, but they all have extremely high ceilings. There are NBs and Sorcs soloing resources, and the first boss of AA. There are videos of NBs doing extremely well in pvp. There are videos of sorcs wiping groups of players.

Sorry for the wall of text, but this crying for nerfs needs to stop somewhere.

skill not op, nerf not needed. tanks already made of paper as it is and heavy armor as well leave tanking alone

actual quote from the op "Now to my theory. Pre-patch Bats, DKs, Sorcerers, none of it is OP it's all working as intended."

Obscure wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

couchkyle25_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

It seems like a lot of people are afraid to lose it. I mean, with so many abilities, why is that one so essential to keep from getting nerfed unless it was the one thing giving the upper hand. I say, make them work for their kills like everyone else. Nerf anything that is viewed as essential.

fine, then nerf NB Stealth, Templar Heals, Sorc Mana Regen as well. See how all of you enjoy that.

That's fine. Anything essential is over powered.

By that definition using any skill is OP. Me thinks you have no ***ing idea what your talking about.

I enjoy a good debate but your doing a fine job of weakening your every argument without my assistance. But don't mind me, please do continue. I enjoy using your posts as examples of thoughtless nonsense.

How could "any skill" be essential? If they all work equally well, none of them would be essential.

If they all work equally well they are all essential...

No, essential means you need it. If you can use one instead of the other, neither are essential.

But they are equal. So they are either equally nonessential or equally essential. If every skill is nonessential none of them need to be used at all. Just a waste of everyone's time and resources. If they are all essential they are all therefore, by your definition, OP and need to be nerfed. Once made equal, by your definition, they are all nonessential, and thus using skills is rendered an inferior option to just hitting things with basic attacks... unless those should be included in your equality concept in which case the entire game is filled with nonessential options that don't matter and all anything comes down to is who has better numerical stats.

Is that yet clear to you, or should I break out the analogies?

That was pretty good. I would like to request the analogies because I don't think he is going to get it, even with that explanation.

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Nerf anything that is viewed as essential.

That's absurd. Essential aspects are what make classes, CLASSES. And classes exist for variety.

Draconic Power is a survivability tree. Most, if not all are a CC, Heal, or Counter. Trade offs between offensive abilities and defensive abilities keep battle interesting. Just as NB's have Cloak and Siphoning, just as Sorcs have Bolt Escape and Dark Exchange/Blood Magic, just as Templars have Heals, Blazing Shield, and Eclipse.

As a Heavy Armor/Melee DK, I find GDB is un-spammable and almost worthless due to my limited magicka. It's more like a last ditch effort most times, which the gain/regen is often just bursted through anyways.

If anything it points to, yet again, Stave/Light Armor magicka management being so efficient it opens spam loops.

LOL this thread is still going? Nothing is wrong with dragon blood. And i'm not saying that because i'm a DK. i have a vet of each class and actually prefer templar over the others despite their *** dps. I don't feel my DK is any more powerful than my templar.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I didn't say anything about my class until you brought it up. I didn't whine or complain, you are confused. I gave an overall opinion of how best to balance the classes, but you have inferred complaints that aren't there.

Your complain is about the Standard and GDB, don't worry I got it I can read. The range/melee DPS side-discussion was just a further example of you downplaying your class's advantages while exaggerating the DK's advantages.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

To the bold, you are saying I have to wield a resto staff to compete with DKs? Oh well, obviously, everyone should have to wear certain armor and wield certain weapons to simply compete with DKs as is, that makes sense.

Yes, I am and it makes perfect sense. Because for a DK to "spam" GDB he also has to be dressed in a certain way, i.e. Light Armour. Again, you see the restriction to yourself, but not to others. If you want to "out-survive" a DK you can easily do it while doing more DPS in the process.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I'm sorry, but regardless of capability, when you have a level 40 something DK standing in banner and spamming GDB, 3 or 4 people that are vet rank should easily be able to mow him down. It has nothing to do with skill. That is something that you should be able to do without any skill.

There's no ability involved whatsoever. But, like I said your NB can do it too with similar level of ability (0) and better and in the end of the day it doesn't really matter. Because all the DK or the NB in that scenario is doing is prolonging his/her inevitable death. The fact you get butthurt over a level 40 stalling your for 2 mins and asking for nerfs is hilarious. Even Templars can do it similarly with BoL

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I strongly disagree regarding sorcerers, not only can they output more damage than a NB, but they can do it to multiple opponents.

Disagreeing is for opinions. You cannot disagree with facts. NBs do consistently higher single target DPS in trials and that's an established fact. I can try to dig out videos of NBs doing 1k DPS if you wish, while Sorcs only reach about 800. Also the only AoE available to Sorc is Lightning Splash and it is not even a patch on Sap Essence. How exactly does the Sorc do more AoE dmg please tell me?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

But this is all irrelevant, because you are distracting from the fact that you are defending a mechanic that is part of the total package that makes DKs ridiculous.

You're targeting a class through your ignorance of facts and game know-how and you think it's irrelevant? I think not.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

DK is even worse when stacked with things like vampire, light armour and staff, and former emperor. And yes, any class gets silly when all that combines, but not to the point where they can hold out solo in a keep and take down something like 12 players before being killed.

If a DK Vamp Emp kept a whole raid on his own from taking a keep then that says more about the raid group than DKs, Emps, Vamps etc. I'm part of Keepers of Cyro, the group on EU Auriels Bow that runs with the most common DK Vamp Emperor (Shido). He not only cannot hold full raids on his own, but our whole raid can wipe if we don't set up correctly for the battle at hand. A raid of two full groups (50+ people) that is

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I firmly believe that you will get nerfed, however, ZOS is just slow to act and the rest of us have to suffer in the meantime.

We might get nerfed, we might not. If we get nerfed to the point we're worse than other classes, I'll switch to my v11 Vamp Sorc and do the same. You'll always suffer through ignorance though.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I didn't say anything about my class until you brought it up. I didn't whine or complain, you are confused. I gave an overall opinion of how best to balance the classes, but you have inferred complaints that aren't there.

Your complain is about the Standard and GDB, don't worry I got it I can read. The range/melee DPS side-discussion was just a further example of you downplaying your class's advantages while exaggerating the DK's advantages.

My complaint isn't about standard, it's about GDB, the topic we are on

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

To the bold, you are saying I have to wield a resto staff to compete with DKs? Oh well, obviously, everyone should have to wear certain armor and wield certain weapons to simply compete with DKs as is, that makes sense.

Yes, I am and it makes perfect sense. Because for a DK to "spam" GDB he also has to be dressed in a certain way, i.e. Light Armour. Again, you see the restriction to yourself, but not to others. If you want to "out-survive" a DK you can easily do it while doing more DPS in the process.

but I disagree, the DK is using class skills, why should I have to go outside my class and be bound by a weapon to compete. Furthermore, the DK can also tank very well, dps very well, and has very nice cc. It's not so much a matter of one ability being ridiculous, but ALL of them are a problem. You shouldn't be able to do all those things really well

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I'm sorry, but regardless of capability, when you have a level 40 something DK standing in banner and spamming GDB, 3 or 4 people that are vet rank should easily be able to mow him down. It has nothing to do with skill. That is something that you should be able to do without any skill.

There's no ability involved whatsoever. But, like I said your NB can do it too with similar level of ability (0) and better and in the end of the day it doesn't really matter. Because all the DK or the NB in that scenario is doing is prolonging his/her inevitable death. The fact you get butthurt over a level 40 stalling your for 2 mins and asking for nerfs is hilarious. Even Templars can do it similarly with BoL

I don't entirely know what is required to be butt-hurt. I don't think I have achieved that at this point at any rate. It seems off, however. The point is, the longer that dk can survive, the more he can wear his opponent down. The heal itself, just once, is such a huge setback when dealing with an already tanky class that you are constantly moving and dodging to avoid the cc of. The loss of dps adds up.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I strongly disagree regarding sorcerers, not only can they output more damage than a NB, but they can do it to multiple opponents.

Disagreeing is for opinions. You cannot disagree with facts. NBs do consistently higher single target DPS in trials and that's an established fact. I can try to dig out videos of NBs doing 1k DPS if you wish, while Sorcs only reach about 800. Also the only AoE available to Sorc is Lightning Splash and it is not even a patch on Sap Essence. How exactly does the Sorc do more AoE dmg please tell me?

Yes, link me the videos. Not to prove anything, but I want to see the build/gear for the NB involved. Maybe it would give me some tips.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

But this is all irrelevant, because you are distracting from the fact that you are defending a mechanic that is part of the total package that makes DKs ridiculous.

You're targeting a class through your ignorance of facts and game know-how and you think it's irrelevant? I think not.

I am targeting a class based on my experience, which is all any of us can do. You feel I am biased, but the same would be true for you, no?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

DK is even worse when stacked with things like vampire, light armour and staff, and former emperor. And yes, any class gets silly when all that combines, but not to the point where they can hold out solo in a keep and take down something like 12 players before being killed.

If a DK Vamp Emp kept a whole raid on his own from taking a keep then that says more about the raid group than DKs, Emps, Vamps etc. I'm part of ***, the group on EU Auriels Bow that runs with the most common DK Vamp Emperor (Shido). He not only cannot hold full raids on his own, but our whole raid can wipe if we don't set up correctly for the battle at hand. A raid of two full groups (50+ people) that is

12 people wasn't the whole raid, we got him eventually. It was probably a poor example, because some of those kills were him hiding and then surprising people with oil (which was hilarious.) Still, it sounds like you are going for zerg effect, so maybe your emperor isn't as skilled. I have no idea.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I firmly believe that you will get nerfed, however, ZOS is just slow to act and the rest of us have to suffer in the meantime.

We might get nerfed, we might not. If we get nerfed to the point we're worse than other classes, I'll switch to my v11 Vamp Sorc and do the same. You'll always suffer though ignorance though.

that's the problem, for you guys it's a FoTM thing. You hop on whatever is the most absurd and play that into the ground