Skintight armor.

meglon978ub17_ESO · July 2014

I suppose the simple question is: why.

Back in the early days of EQ, back prior to 2003 or so, armor looked like it was painted on to the character... much like it is ESO today. Why? EQ changed to make it actually look like armor 10-11 years ago, yet now we're back to skin tight, form fitting plate armor. Seriously, why?

How about you make armor look like armor, not painted spandex.

dsalter · July 2014

harder to achieve with adjustable body shape, can bet it's on their priority list for future

Maximis_ESO · July 2014

They already talked about this. It helps keep FPS down and honestly it doesn't look bad. Also like mentioned.....its difficult with different body sizes, races, etc.

dsalter · July 2014

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

They already talked about this. It helps keep FPS down and honestly it doesn't look bad. Also like mentioned.....its difficult with different body sizes, races, etc.

tho personally i wish they'd atleast make fixing semi floating shoulder pads and hip thingies a high priority, it's annoying as hell

twev · July 2014

At least the armor doesn't have BATMAN's molded-on ***, right?

But I agree that the Epaulettes and Tassets are kinda stupid/hokey, and I wish they could be made inviz like the Helm.

nvsg · July 2014

I agree on medium bosmer ew and im a bosmer every elder scroll game and I used to have redskin what happened to that!

meglon978ub17_ESO · July 2014

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

They already talked about this. It helps keep FPS down and honestly it doesn't look bad. Also like mentioned.....its difficult with different body sizes, races, etc.

Sorry, EQ did this in 2003-2004. If they could do it then (and not have trouble with fps or with different body sizes/races), anyone should be able to do it now.

Teargrants · July 2014

Did you guys not watch the Quakecon vid? The devs were specifically asked about this issue, and the response was that it was a design decision made to optimize performance (remember the promises for PvP of "200 characters on screen" and "lag free"?).

Then they sort of dodged the question by stating that they would introduce new gear as time progressed with different looks.

UrQuan · July 2014

meglon978ub17_ESO wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

They already talked about this. It helps keep FPS down and honestly it doesn't look bad. Also like mentioned.....its difficult with different body sizes, races, etc.

Sorry, EQ did this in 2003-2004. If they could do it then (and not have trouble with fps or with different body sizes/races), anyone should be able to do it now.

Everquest in 2004:

ESO:

If you think the challenges involved in keeping FPS down in those 2 are even remotely comparable, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

LazyBoi1990 · July 2014

I agree that in some cases the painted-on appearance of some armors is kind of weird looking, especially in my case as I'm playing AD right now and there are a lot of Bosmer wearing their super skin tight outfits. Hopefully they'll address this in the future.

Hypertionb14_ESO · July 2014

My opinion with this topic begins and ends with...

what were we talking about?

Ser Lobo · July 2014

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

My opinion with this topic begins and ends with...

what were we talking about?

A fair argument for painted on armors.

Course, Bosmer wear leather. Seems a bit fitting it *might* be the style to be skin-tight, too. They kinda take their pelts and leather serious, those bosmer.

Never had a problem with my imperial feeling 'skin tight'.

Wolfshead · July 2014

I don't know about you guys but medium is normal leather armor in which case it should be skintight beside look at WoW everything in that game is ssssooo over size so it look stupid at least in ESO the look more realistic if you look at amor from mediaeval time most armor was skintight due to simple fact that it gave more protection to the person wear also most armor back then was tailor-made to fit the wear and only the wear no one else.

meglon978ub17_ESO · July 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

meglon978ub17_ESO wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

They already talked about this. It helps keep FPS down and honestly it doesn't look bad. Also like mentioned.....its difficult with different body sizes, races, etc.

Sorry, EQ did this in 2003-2004. If they could do it then (and not have trouble with fps or with different body sizes/races), anyone should be able to do it now.

Everquest in 2004:

ESO:

If you think the challenges involved in keeping FPS down in those 2 are even remotely comparable, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

Certainly... if you think that EQ had the graphics engine and computer hardware of today back then. Sony was actually much more constrained because of the lack of hardware and supporting software than any major gaming studio now.

Wolfshead wrote: »

I don't know about you guys but medium is normal leather armor in which case it should be skintight beside look at WoW everything in that game is ssssooo over size so it look stupid at least in ESO the look more realistic if you look at amor from mediaeval time most armor was skintight due to simple fact that it gave more protection to the person wear also most armor back then was tailor-made to fit the wear and only the wear no one else.

Clearly my word choice could have been better... yes, armor actually was tight, and it was even form fitting.. on the inside. The outside, on the other hand...wasn't either of those.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fully-Wearable-Medieval-Knight-Full-Suit-of-Armor-15th-Century-Gothic-Armor-Suit-/121083656392

... do you know how difficult it is to find a picture of someone actually wearing this stuff? Kinda surprising considering all the reenactors and such.... least i figure there's be more.

Anyway... full plate doesn't look like spandex from the outside. It has heft, and a lot of it; it has it's own form. I get the artistic fantasy element for the game, but the paper thin armor thing has been solved in the past.

UrQuan · July 2014

meglon978ub17_ESO wrote: »

Certainly... if you think that EQ had the graphics engine and computer hardware of today back then. Sony was actually much more constrained because of the lack of hardware and supporting software than any major gaming studio now.

Aaaaand that confirms that you don't know what you're talking about. The entire point is that the hardware and software is different, and that entirely different techniques are needed to keep FPS down. It's not just a matter of "this software and hardware is better, so we can magically do way better graphics and still have no problem with FPS". Managing FPS is all about making graphical compromises. Which compromises are the most effective depend on the hardware and software. The hardware and software of a couple of generations ago required a certain set of compromises, and the hardware and software of today require a different set of compromises (based on what sort of things they've been optimized for - which is usually based on things that the previous generation wasn't optimized for).

Bleakraven · July 2014

I agree that armour should look less painted-on/skintight. Especially boots. I love how some boots in ES games look chunky and heavy, and here all we get is some knee protection thingie. I want to see the weight (or not, or softness) of the armour, not just a texture slapped on my character.

kassandratheclericb14_ESO · July 2014

I think they can do much better with the armor and not loose much frame rate.

The secret is 1) optimizing the meshes and 2) using normal maps, glow maps, diffuse, etc. You can keep the texture size decent and add the texture and depth with better normal maps instead of making crazy meshes. If done properly it can look amazing and still keep frame rate at a reasonable level for all players regardless of PC machine. It won't be completely perfect..it will still be a texture but it can look better. You only need to look at some Skyrim mods to see.

No need for HD textures or any of that...just well done maps.

Bleakraven · July 2014

Heck, make it toggleable, if FPS is an issue.... If I want to see more detail on the armour, I should be able to enable something like "armour model". If people's fps takes too much of a hit, just untick the option and there we go! Everybody is happy!

kassandratheclericb14_ESO · July 2014

The problem with that is they would have to make 2 versions of all the armor in the game. That is way too much work I would think.

Bleakraven · July 2014

The textures are already there, I think a talented team like that of ZOS can handle it.

Valid concern nevertheless.

kieso · July 2014

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

My opinion with this topic begins and ends with...

what were we talking about?

DAT AZZZ!!

kassandratheclericb14_ESO · July 2014

Bleakraven wrote: »

The textures are already there, I think a talented team like that of ZOS can handle it. Valid concern nevertheless.

Yes one set of textures is in the game....and no matter how you dress it up you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Meaning no graphical improvement (like toggling from medium to ultra) is going to make some things any better. No bigger HD texture will improve some things. If fact, some things may look worse after a certain point.

I believe any significant improvement would be to improve just certain normal maps on certain clothing/armor. Some things are passable (the above pic is a good example-azzz not withstanding) and some things look gawd-awful. Things look better usually in the character creator (If you have not noticed.) Shadows and lighting can help some with depth but only so far. I noticed that straps and rope typically looks problematic.

I think it is easier to make metal things look real rather than cloth. Cloth is surprisingly hard (think of the folds in clothing/cloth) and in many pieces they have done a damn good job. It could be improved with time and a bit of effort.

Honestly I think what I am saying would be too hard also...and not for lack of talent (i don't think we would disagree that there is some talent here) but the time it takes to do these would be...well...a great deal.

Perhaps they would consider improvements over time...like X amount of items per update or something..starting with improvements in new items.

I just don't think they currently have the available resources for something like this which is...a minor cosmetic concern.

hk11 · July 2014

Skin tight armor is one of my biggest pet peeves... Orcs should not wear spandex.

Orety6 · July 2014

I dont like the armors design too, an I also miss... cloaks (like in WoW).

andre.roques.3b14_ESO · July 2014

I'm in agreement with the concept of armor being protective. As much as I love the moddable nature of TESV which allows for the big boobie and skimpy non-armor armor. I appreciate the pseudo attempt to keep armor substantial in appearance thus conveying the idea that it would protect your body from fire, weapons, etc. I just hope they add some additional motifs that branch out a bit from the fairly common baseline look of the armor.

rekina · July 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

meglon978ub17_ESO wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

They already talked about this. It helps keep FPS down and honestly it doesn't look bad. Also like mentioned.....its difficult with different body sizes, races, etc.

Sorry, EQ did this in 2003-2004. If they could do it then (and not have trouble with fps or with different body sizes/races), anyone should be able to do it now.

Everquest in 2004:

ESO:

If you think the challenges involved in keeping FPS down in those 2 are even remotely comparable, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

This guy won the thread, everyone else please stfu.

ThisOnePosts · July 2014

Heavy armor is not skin tight for the most part, there are a few sets which have pants that are but that is because of their style and the variety is welcome.

Medium armor should be form-fitting... and light armor could be form fitting or flowy like a robe --- either or. Regardless, I believe it's fine how it is... and yes I agree with whoever said that WoW armor looked silly. EQ ehhh... but really, have you not seen all of the styles of heavy armor, there are plenty that are not skin-tight? I have every single motif learned, L2Motif!!!!!!! XD

Arandear · July 2014

I think the armour's look awesome, but I have heard the "Skin-tight" complaint before. I however, would like it if Helmet's didn't have such big gaps in the neck area lol.

UrQuan · July 2014

rekina wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

meglon978ub17_ESO wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

They already talked about this. It helps keep FPS down and honestly it doesn't look bad. Also like mentioned.....its difficult with different body sizes, races, etc.

Sorry, EQ did this in 2003-2004. If they could do it then (and not have trouble with fps or with different body sizes/races), anyone should be able to do it now.

Everquest in 2004:

ESO:

If you think the challenges involved in keeping FPS down in those 2 are even remotely comparable, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

This guy won the thread, everyone else please stfu.

Woo hoo! What do I win?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

meglon978ub17_ESO wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

They already talked about this. It helps keep FPS down and honestly it doesn't look bad. Also like mentioned.....its difficult with different body sizes, races, etc.

Sorry, EQ did this in 2003-2004. If they could do it then (and not have trouble with fps or with different body sizes/races), anyone should be able to do it now.

umm no, EQ armor still looks very painted on.

kassandratheclericb14_ESO · July 2014

I guess you can argue this in two ways....1) You want your fantasy game to have realism and thus want your armor to reflect how it may perform in the real world. 2) You want your armor to be part of your fantasy game and decide that the enchantments and spells give you as much protection as the "real" world armor and appreciate the look.

This argument goes on all the time over int he mod communities. I never found the skin tight pretty stuff to be too problematic and there is enough armor in this game I think to make everyone happy (especially with dyes coming-as Talos is my witness I am painting mine like a pinkie pie wedding cake and just sit and *** people off! This I swear!!)

I understand the realism thing too...and that is great but it isn't my thing so much. I want to escape real life and have a hard time suspending my disbelief that there should be only "realistic armor" when you can hurl chains out of your hands and toss fireballs around...and where DOES that horse go? Or how do you sprint then swim in heavy plate armor....lol

Seriously I am not trying to get onto anyone...just keeping it light and appreciating the differences that make this all fun.