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360 Degree Blocking Ridiculous
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unless you are talking about a military combat simulator, realism doesn't even enter into the discussion. There is none, in any game. Every game has an element of fantasy and things that are not feasible in real life.
Do our soldiers jump off a roof and 360 no-scope insurgents? No, but they do it in Call Of Duty. Is it realistic? Of course not, but not many games are.
Is that your only defense for such a pointless feature? I mean, sure some aspects in a game should balance competition, but why would you need blocking to be in every direction? And by need, I don't mean against multiple enemies. What I mean is, why would you purposely remove the challenge of having to watch your back? Dumbing down the mechanics because "games are never realistic" isn't a good enough answer.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 22, 2014 3:11AM2 -
dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is that your only defense for such a pointless feature? I mean, sure some aspects in a game should balance competition, but why would you need blocking to be in every direction? And by need, I don't mean against multiple enemies. What I mean is, why would you purposely remove the challenge of having to watch your back? Dumbing down the mechanics because "games are never realistic" isn't a good enough answer.
360 blocking is unrealistic, but so are many, many other things in this game. Do you know how many times I've tried to break every single one of my horses legs by leaping off a 100-foot cliff? I keep trying though.....
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Kronosphere✭✭✭✭ok sounds all good and well in theory. but have u ever played side by side comps with someone on this game? well i have, and i can tell you the positioning i see him at is completely different to where he is on hes screen. blocking doesnt need a nerf since everyone can use it, and this would be another hit to the already laughably squishy tanks in this game which also is not needed. it would cause more annoyance and trouble than its worth sadly~House Indoril~
Submit to the three, the spirits and thy lords.2 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is that your only defense for such a pointless feature? I mean, sure some aspects in a game should balance competition, but why would you need blocking to be in every direction? And by need, I don't mean against multiple enemies. What I mean is, why would you purposely remove the challenge of having to watch your back? Dumbing down the mechanics because "games are never realistic" isn't a good enough answer.
360 blocking is unrealistic, but so are many, many other things in this game. Do you know how many times I've tried to break every single one of my horses legs by leaping off a 100-foot cliff? I keep trying though.....
Just because other things are unrealistic, doesn't mean this aspect just gets a free pass. Explain why a player should have an invisible shield on their back.
And just saying the word "tank" is not good enough. There has to be a legitimate reason for why this feature should exist.
I believe a player should need to watch their back. Flanking an enemy is a very important strategy which doesn't really matter if enemies don't have to watch their back.
And if players should need to aim their attacks, why should they also need to aim their blocking too? It seems some people just don't want the game to get harder.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 22, 2014 3:22AM1 -
kijima✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the mechanic for a sneak attack while crouched works wonders when the NPC/player has his back turned in that is attracts greater damage, which it does then why is shield 360 degrees?
I can't see why blocking with a shield should be all encompassing versus directional, which IMO it should be.
Trying throwing suprize party with daggers into a typical DK who has heard the animation sound start and hit block with shield, you may as well try and beat him down dual wielding soft toys.
Been here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...0 -
MonkeyAssassin24✭✭✭Unless you are talking about a military combat simulator, realism doesn't even enter into the discussion. There is none, in any game. Every game has an element of fantasy and things that are not feasible in real life.
Do our soldiers jump off a roof and 360 no-scope insurgents? No, but they do it in Call Of Duty. Is it realistic? Of course not, but not many games are.
Um, they most certainly do...Murica!
On topic, I wouldn't mind this change at all if they fixed the armor problem in terms of mitigation. You shouldn't have to block everything around you and wouldn't have to if heavy armor actually made a difference in preventing major damage. Maybe then players would actually tank in it instead of light armor AND it would make tanking more intense like it should be instead of holding down right-click and literally face-tanking.On second thought, let's not go to the forums. 'Tis a silly place.0 -
dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just because other things are unrealistic, doesn't mean this aspect just gets a free pass. Explain why a player should have an invisible shield on their back.
And just saying the word "tank" is not good enough. There has to be a legitimate reason for why this feature should exist.
I believe a player should need to watch their back. Flanking an enemy is a very important strategy which doesn't really matter if enemies don't have to watch their back.
Why do NPC's have ESP and instantly turn around and know when I press a key to leap at them from behind from 30 meters away? Because EVERY aspect of this game is unrealistic.0 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just because other things are unrealistic, doesn't mean this aspect just gets a free pass. Explain why a player should have an invisible shield on their back.
And just saying the word "tank" is not good enough. There has to be a legitimate reason for why this feature should exist.
I believe a player should need to watch their back. Flanking an enemy is a very important strategy which doesn't really matter if enemies don't have to watch their back.
Why do NPC's have ESP and instantly turn around and know when I press a key to leap at them from behind from 30 meters away? Because EVERY aspect of this game is unrealistic.
Because AI cheats to make the game more difficult. And again, you're trying to say that just because some of the game is unrealistic, it should all be, but you ignore the real question of why this feature should be this way. You don't have a legit reason, only lame comparisons to irrelevant details.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 22, 2014 3:26AM0 -
CheesyDaedra✭✭✭Insignia91 wrote: »This would be stupid if they limit it to 180. If I pick up a shield in real life I am not limited to blocking I can block all 360 degrees. No reason they should limit it to 180 in this game.
For not recognizing trolls.Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick, it's a very delicate state of mind.2 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Make block mitigate damage 180 degrees in the direction the character is facing.
Give Heavy Armour 5-piece passive a bonus that mitigates damage taken from behind while blocking."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am confused here guys.
I am 5 heavy, Tank. Shield. Since start. Dont use any light armor crap.
I tested this, and its correct, I seam to block attacks from the "side", but I do take more damage. I wonder if thats cause mitigation from 5 heavy armor?
Can anyone confirm that BLOCK works 180 degrees? Even if I use it all the time, it SHOULD only work where it bocks! not anywhere else!Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"0 -
pinstripesc✭✭✭Kronosphere wrote: »ok sounds all good and well in theory. but have u ever played side by side comps with someone on this game? well i have, and i can tell you the positioning i see him at is completely different to where he is on hes screen. blocking doesnt need a nerf since everyone can use it, and this would be another hit to the already laughably squishy tanks in this game which also is not needed. it would cause more annoyance and trouble than its worth sadly
This is very true. I play beside my wife and sometimes look at her screen, there is reliably a difference of sometimes 6 "feet" in game, where it shows me running ahead of her, when on her screen she's ahead of me.2 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭But this mechanic is due in part to technical limitations. If we have directional blocking, you'll be dying to lag since a change in your character's direction might not register in time.
Kinda like dying when you can't attack anyone due to lag. Ive heard of that.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO40 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭180 blocking would be fine. Blocking in this game is too easy.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO41
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sagitter✭✭✭✭✭This is not only about realism, this is also about balance.
pvp 180 ° 1 vs blocker = no difference at all if you are sharp.
pvp 180° 2+ vs blocker = harder .
It's not a good mechanic, because now, you can use offensive abilities in addition to blocking 360, at the same time. It's just hold blocking and spam aoes and you are a bombing truck.Edited by sagitter on July 22, 2014 6:40AM1 -
Fuzzylumpkins✭✭✭✭bgoldbeck21_ESO wrote: »I'm wondering if the rest of the player base feels this way as I do. I also feel blocking should be limited to a 180 Degree radius. @ZOS are there any planned updates for blocking in the near future?
A lot of us do, we just stopped caring when we stopped playing. It is just a drop in the bucket of fail that is teso.
Never leave home without your bucket.
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sagitter✭✭✭✭✭Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »bgoldbeck21_ESO wrote: »I'm wondering if the rest of the player base feels this way as I do. I also feel blocking should be limited to a 180 Degree radius. @ZOS are there any planned updates for blocking in the near future?
A lot of us do, we just stopped caring when we stopped playing. It is just a drop in the bucket of fail that is teso.
Never leave home without your bucket.
Fails can't be changed. Teso is a good mmo in continue evolution with a strong potential, and almost everything can be changed if there is the will.1 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭If block is limited to 180 degrees, then we need player collision in game also.
Or else isn't as daft to be able to go through another player to attack from their back and avoid their 180 arc block?6 -
LordEcks✭✭✭Just two cents.
Most D&D based games don't have 360 blocking. Its limited to a range in front of you that can realistically be covered by the shield.
So I support the nerfing to 180 if they wanted to do that however I dont believe that is the problem.
In D&D based games there are feats (or other means) that allow characters who persue defensive avenues (ala tanks) to have 360 degree blocking (unflankable).
So personally I think blocking on the whole should be nerfed and at the same time buffed for Heavy Armor and again for Shield users. 360 degree blocking could easily be added as a passive in heavy armor or one hand & shield tree.p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote:If block is limited to 180 degrees, then we need player collision in game also.
Or else isn't as daft to be able to go through another player to attack from their back and avoid their 180 arc block?
Just curious how is this any different from rogues in other MMOs trying to backstab you? Yet virtually none of the other MMOs have collisions on. It would cause a lot of problems in PVP and a quite a few annoyances in PVE as well.Edited by LordEcks on July 22, 2014 7:40AM1 -
Ninnghizhidda✭✭✭✭This concept works fine in Tera Online.
Tera has 360 degrees blocking or I understood wrong? Because it certainly doesn't. And also, if you have a whole circus of mobs on you, coming from all directions and surrounding you, you will be nicely trampled, be a lancer with your shield up or not.
I can not be certain about the actual arc of protection a shield grants in Tera, but it is far less than 360 degrees or even 270 degrees.
P.S. This is why, despite anything else, Tera DOES have great "action combat", you might hate it all you want, and no one claimed it is ESO or has anything similar.0 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just curious how is this any different from rogues in other MMOs trying to backstab you? Yet virtually none of the other MMOs have collisions on. It would cause a lot of problems in PVP and a quite a few annoyances in PVE as well.
Why should TESO has the same lame mechanics the other MMOs have also?
As 360 degrees block is "not real" for some people here, going through the other player to back stab them is "not real" also.0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭360 degree blocking isn't realism but turning invisible, growing spikes, turning into stone, turning into lightening, summoning creatures out of thin air.....is?0
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭360 degree blocking isn't realism but turning invisible, growing spikes, turning into stone, turning into lightening, summoning creatures out of thin air.....is?
Except blocking doesn't require a skill point, isn't written about in the lore, and is just a lazy game mechanic so noobs don't have to look back. It's not like you highlight a shield and see the description, "blocks in a 360 degree radius". I mean, if that were the case, then sure, I guess they weren't being lazy.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 22, 2014 10:25AM0 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭I'm curious about the attack on the blocking mechanic when it's been clear for some time that having Inpenetrable on armor negates crit damage?0 -
Ninnghizhidda✭✭✭✭The truly ludicrous thing is not just the "360 degrees" part. It is that everyone can do it, especially bloody [snip] "mages" with their floral dresses and broomsticks, who merrily "block" and behind that "block" annihilate the universe with aoe after aoe and nuke after nuke. You [snip] serious?
I would half believe it if a real tank, and I mean a damn bulging tank, in full heavy armour with a huge shield and total specialisation in the trade could master that kind of blocking, and even then with some resource expense and after investing heavily in relevant skills.
And even then, "universal" blocking would probably be too much still.
But the "Harry Potter" way "I block you for free, even if I am a mage, while I burn your behind to a crisp" thing should be eligible for the most fail and laughable game "mechanic" ever.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on July 23, 2014 1:16PM1 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭In a fantasy setting, most caster types use something akin to an energy shield or field generated by an orb to block. This game didn't give those graphical qualities to casting types. Casting types shouldn't have the ability to block taken away.
In this game, blocking is relegated by a stamina pool. Regardless of the arc, traits on armor or certain skills will reduce or negate damage.
So, what are we going for here?
If the 'I'm a rogue' types want free crits on 1hand and shield builds by sneaking around them - that's limited already by impenetrable. And if the sorcy sorcs want to be able to negate a tanks ability to block the cc effects of their crystal shards (effectively using bolt escape to outmaneuver their facing then spamming cc spells) - Then tankish types will need upgrades to counter that. I'm not in agreement with primary pvp'ers asking for more ways for their classes to dominate the battlefield that cannot be countered.
This thread reads like a solicitation to bypass tank defenses with no cost, penalty, or ability of the tank to counter it.
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khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭360 degree blocking isn't realism but turning invisible, growing spikes, turning into stone, turning into lightening, summoning creatures out of thin air.....is?
This is not so much an issue of realism as internal consistency. Just because were talking about a fantasy world doesnt mean the place is a magical clusterf... with no rules to it. A well designed, immersive fantasy universe has its own rules - they might not be the same as our world's but they should make sense within the setting of the game/book/film and be pervasive throughout it.
Here, in Tamriel, there is magic. So turning invisible, growing spikes, summoning creatures - those things are not inconsistent with the reality of the game. Those are spells and feats fueled by magicka. Surrounding yourself with a wall of arcane energy and repelling any incoming attack regardless the direction (magicka feat) would also be consistent with the game setting. Raising your weapon(s) in front of your face and bracing yourself for impact (stamina feat) to repel an attack aimed from behind you at your left butt cheek is not. And so wading into battle in a robe and invoking powerful destructive incantations one after another should really not work while being stabbed a dozen times every second by 30 enemies surrounding you, just because youre holding a piece of wood above your head.In a fantasy setting, most caster types use something akin to an energy shield or field generated by an orb to block. This game didn't give those graphical qualities to casting types. Casting types shouldn't have the ability to block taken away.
In this game, blocking is relegated by a stamina pool. Regardless of the arc, traits on armor or certain skills will reduce or negate damage.
And this is why it shouldnt work. In this particular setting they are not using magic to block as shown by game mechanics.
Personally Id suggest this: mages need to buy passives in the staff lines to be able to block - their block uses magicka and is 360 (has an additional 'bubble' animation - no dev time needed the animation is already in game for enchant procs) or 270 to still allow for 'backstab' mechanic. Melee get a frontal cone block for free and weapon trees have a 360 (or 270) block passives (with added lore explanation how it works in the tooltip) - their block uses stamina. You 'mage block' when you have a staff equipped, you 'fighter block' when you use a melee weapon. Would make more sense and be more balanced than it is now.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on July 22, 2014 12:03PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
ShADoW0s✭✭✭Insignia91 wrote: »This would be stupid if they limit it to 180. If I pick up a shield in real life I am not limited to blocking I can block all 360 degrees. No reason they should limit it to 180 in this game.
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