Nightblade as a tank?

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2014

I'm recently trying to get back into this game, and I'm doing some research on classes and such on UESP, but wouldn't mind a little community input as well.

I currently have a Breton Sorcerer, with Heavy Armor and Dual Wield, so basically a tank mage. I've really come to enjoy tanking in RPG's lately.

But I'm also curious about trying a Nightblade. Looks like they may have some interesting skills that would make for a solid build. I'd like to keep the Dual Wield, and perhaps use a bow for ranged as well, although I did just learn you can't switch weapons in combat

But I'm also trying to determine between Heavy Armor and tanking, or Light Armor and being mobile. Or if there's even really a difference in this game? I know in the offline TES games, Heavy Armor slows you down and makes sneaking more difficult. I don't know if that's a thing in ESO tho. But I don't know if Heavy Armor would negate some of the purpose of being a Nightblade, or if I can roll with a "dark warrior that strikes from the shadows" type of concept.

There's also the fact that Light Armor seems to give magicka bonuses, which is another plus.

Also torn between a Wood Elf and a Breton for this build (Wood Elf vs. Breton is my eternal TES struggle lol, they are my 2 favorite races), as for RP purposes I would kind of like the Wood Elf, but with how magic intensive I'd like to be, I'd get loads more use out of the Breton racials than I would the Wood Elf.

So my main struggles for my Nightblade character are Heavy Armor vs. Light Armor, and Breton vs. Wood Elf.

Tabbycat · July 2014

I have heard of Sorcerer's tanking in light armor and I think Dragon Knights too. I know that Nightblades have been used as light armor mages. I don't recall seeing anything on Nightblades tanking in light armor, but it wouldn't surprise me if this works.

Ser Lobo · July 2014

First: You can swap weapons in combat (as long as you use your second skill bar, unlocked at level 15).

Secondly: Nightblade tanks can be very effective. It's probably going to be the next class combo I build, myself. Just don't go vampire if you are doing a lot of veteran dungeons. Unless you choose Dunmer to get the fire resistance passive, cause then it can work amazingly well.

The rest is up to you. I'm going to go Redguard with sword and board, most likely, and not even certain on my second weapon yet.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2014

Thanks for your input, both of you (and thanks in advance to anyone else who offers their opinion as well).

The class does have some interesting skills I may look into that could go either way for Heavy Armor or Light Armor.

And yea, I knew about the weapon swap at level 15... that just seems like a pretty high level just to be able to switch weapons.

Ser Lobo · July 2014

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for your input, both of you (and thanks in advance to anyone else who offers their opinion as well).

The class does have some interesting skills I may look into that could go either way for Heavy Armor or Light Armor.

And yea, I knew about the weapon swap at level 15... that just seems like a pretty high level just to be able to switch weapons.

It's hard to say it without being it sounding condescending, so understand I don't mean it as such.

But 15 is really the first day or so of play, maybe the first week if you are slow like me. Most players will be there and past it well before they know what they want that second weapon slot to be.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2014

I dunno, unless leveling got faster while I was away, my main character is barely level 12, and I got some pretty good time in within the first month of the game's release.

kijima · July 2014

It can work, using dual wield with two swords, medium armour and a few of the health regen passives tanking in the traditional sense of the term can work well with a NB. A friend of mine can tank at VR12 against the best of the best, albeit for a limited time, but he can do it and do it well. He can take a lot of punishment, I've seen it first hand.

Aeradon · July 2014

Light Armor + Breton. 1HS/Restro

Usually people would favour Heavy Armor in tanking, but I prefer Light Armor when I tank with my NB.

Breton has the natural spell resist that aids tank very well. But spell resist is the least of your concern when you are going LA. The reason why LA is chosen is due to the fact that most self sustain NB builds require high amount of Magicka to function.

Depending on the mobs, you might have skills swapped in and out. My general tanking build usually has the Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks and Sap Essence, with taunt of either Inner Fire or Ransack. Restro bar usually has Combat Prayer and Quick Siphon, Efficient Purge and Unstoppable/Annulment is situational.

The idea is to keep all resources, health/stamina/magicka above 70% at all times. With constant soft cap of armour and spell resist. I ditched Leeching Strikes for the other morph as soon as I have Quick Siphon. I also have Inner Light to keep the self heals constantly Crit in order to make up for the loss of damage from Siphoning.

The heavy siphoning build allows for constant ultimate spamming, which is where Veil of Blades come in. I would say the Veil is your primary tanking ability and what keeps NB tanks viable.

Edit: I personally run a Khajiit, and I believe racial is not very important. However, tanks usually tell me Bretons and Imperials make better tanks.

Do note that I balance my magicka and armour by having a full LA set, and a mix between LA and HA, just to assure new group mates that both are pretty much the same. Both trees are maxed with passives. I personally prefer LA, and I sometimes tank with Restro more than 1HS, the high weapon damage allows for more heals/sustainability.

Hypertionb14_ESO · July 2014

A NB tank is mostly reliant on non-class abilitys.. since the abilitys they have are mostly not helpful for tanking.

A NB mage is one of the most powerful AOE casters in the game and one of the better single target hitters. using Healing staff to cast Quick Siphon on a few mobs in a group then spamming Power Extraction will heal you massively while building ultimate for Soul Shred and its morphs which AOE stun while dealing as much as 1k on crits.

NB mages spamming Power Extracction can cast a ultimate every few seconds, with Soul Shred this can stunlock groups of mobs..

Yeager45 · July 2014

Im currently running a NB tank, it is an alt (its level 35 right now) my main is a DK tank and I am leveling all classes up as tanks to test them.

Bretons would be a good choice for the extra magicka and spell resist which NBs don't have a passive that increase spell resist except when coming out of stealth so I would say go with a Breton if you don't go with light armor. I'm not sure on a wood elf but I'm sure there is a way to make it work. You said you wanted to use dual wield so I would suggest leveling up dual wield but use 1h and shield as your main so you can get aggro on bosses because there are only two taunts in the game, one in the 1h and shield line and the other in the Undaunted skill line, its a ranged taunt that costs magicka, which is a plus for the Breton. You don't get the ranged magicka taunt until level 3 of the undaunted skill line which can take awhile to get to if you don't do dungeons and anchors. You most likely wont have it for the first few dungeons so you will need the 1h and shield taunt.

My current skill bar for my DW bar is used more for self healing since I don't run a resto staff, so it has

Strife (to start combat and start some extra health regen going)

Blood Craze (again its helps with regening health)

Teleport Strike (could be changed but I like it when I go to pvp so could put something like steel tornado or the ranged taunt here or which ever skill you prefer)

Killers Blade (its my finisher when the mobs drop to 25% health)

Leeching Strikes (since damage isn't my main focus, but every hit with a normal attack(light attacks and heavy attacks) restore 2% health and 3% stamina and magicka but reduces my damage by 23% )

I run all points into health just because I tank with a sword and shield and the imperial passive increases my stamina so I don't feel a need to put points into stamina at the moment, but I do enchant my armor with magicka and/or stamina once I overcharge in health.

I don't run any sets right now so that can be up to you on what you want to wear but as traits go I run weighted on my swords for the extra swing speed just because of the leeching strikes so I keep myself healed pretty well and my resources are close to full, I rarely run out as long as I don't spam skills.

Also, for the type of armor I run, I am currently trying out 5 heavy, 1 light and 1 medium piece just to get the costs down and the extra spell resisit from light armor and still get the 5 piece bonus for heavy armor

Im sorry this is so long but if you have any questions please feel free to message me on here or in game at @yeager45

Also sorry for the long reply and if I was completely off topic just trying to give you some ideas and help as much as I can.

PBpsy · July 2014

Tanking as a NB is pretty awesome and I think effective
I run 5 light 2 Heavy with 2 Armor glyphs with Sword and Shield and resto with willows and twilight's for the crit.(I am not sure to what I will change when the patch comes.)
I have full magicka then health and no stamina.
The S&B tab is Funnel health/Sap Essence/inner beast(Taunt)/inner light/siphoning attacks.
The resto has impale/inner light/siphoning attacks. and various other depending on the situation
The ultimate is of course Veil of blades.The idea is to crit your health siphons a lot and get you veil of blades ready often.Only very special DK builds are as tough as a NB with a VOB under them doing ~150-200 HPS on self only with their attack skills.

I would not recommend DW for tanking. , Blocking will cost a lot and will not be as effective as Sword and Shield.

I think a great tanking race is Dunmer. There is a lot of fire damage in the VR dungeons and being naturally resistant to It is great. The Stamina and Magicka bonus is nice also.

Aeradon · July 2014

PBpsy wrote: »

Tanking as a NB is pretty awesome and I think effective
I run 5 light 2 Heavy with 2 Armor glyphs with Sword and Shield and resto with willows and twilight's for the crit.(I am not sure to what I will change when the patch comes.)

I run Willows and Twilight too. Gotta change that spell crit to spell power once the set changes comes in.

Or weapon damage, depending on skill scale.

Jice · July 2014

I'm a NB pure tank VR12 Khajiit and don't understand how anyone can't see the tank utility in all the class skills...NB has no tanking abilities? Everything that make a NB a good tank:

Lotus Fan: Gap closer and AoE

Blur: 15% miss chance, and 3.5 seconds of 30% miss chance.

Surprise Attack: 40% armor reduction.

Refresting Path: AoE Damage and Healing for the whole group.

Darkshades: cause 15% damage reduction on everything it's target does is somehow terrible as a tanking ability...do you know how much armor you have to equip for 15% reduction? I don't but it's probably a lot.

Swallow Soul: Self heal is a nice start, but add in 10% healing taken and you become the healers BFF.

Debilitate: 20% Attack speed reduction...sounds like a tanky debuff to me.

Sap Essence: AoE with a weapon damage bonus and oh ya, heals you and your group as you spam it.

And the clincher: Siphoning strikes! Because nothing makes a better tank than one that is NEVER out of resources. And because your resource regen is built in, NB's are the only class that could use 7/7 Heavy and not suffer the slightest for it. (though I still go 5 heavy 2 light cause all the heavy shoulder armor is fugly)

As for Ultimates we only have one of the best in Veil of Blades: 60% Damage reduction for you and 30% for the group. Never mind that the damage from it is insanity and lets your group disappear for a bit. Hell most NB damage dealers prefer it.

And for passive: 30% potion effect, 8% magika, Stupid Quick ultimate gain, 30% stamina regen, 3% extra health for every shadow ability slotted.

Lots here for a tank to love.

Fi'yra · July 2014

Nightblade tanks only really work with heavy armor/sword & board.
Orc or Bosmer are the best choices for a tanking Nightblade too.

Nightblade tanks have amazing evasion, and huge sustain because of siphoning, especially when they have a personal healer ofc.

I suggest going for tanking if you're thinking about it.

xaraan · July 2014

I love my NB tank, I actually prefer him over my DK tank, but both do well. I wear heavy armor/sword & board for tanking, still have great stamina regen with NB and Bosmer bonuses. The CC and dragonblood are great on the DK, but I seem to have better resource management with my NB.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2014

Lots of information, thanks everybody! I appreciate the input!

I started my Nightblade tonight - a Wood Elf, after I couldn't get either of the names that I wanted with my Breton

But the way this character is playing out so far, I'm enjoying the roleplay.

And I'm enjoying the class as well. Playing a new class, with a new style of play, is breathing some new life into this game that was struggling to capture my attention. I feel a little more connected to this character than I have been to past characters. That's a good thing.

I'm only level 7, so I'm still tinkering with some things. I haven't committed to an armor type yet. I am building my character for a mix of roleplay, aesthetic, and efficiency purposes, so I'm not necessarily looking to min/max the "best" character, but at the same time, I of course want to be viable.

I'm still of a Skyrim line of thinking where Light Armor was stuff like leather, Elven, glass armor, etc... not all out robes and cloth. So I am a little hesitant to go Light Armor. Medium Armor, I'm not a fan of the abilities, so I'm looking at Heavy Armor at the moment. I just crafted myself some nice Bone Armor pieces.

I am, however, keeping Light Armor in the mix. I have a light armor hood, a light armor belt, and light armor bracers. Still not committing to one armor type yet, so this allows me to level up both. Maybe I can even cherry pick some different abilities from each one. I particularly like the light armor active ability.

The class abilities I'm having a lot of fun with. I do miss having the summoned pets from my Sorcerer class, but I feel the overall playstyle is more fun. And I'll get summons later down the line with shades.

So I'm currently dabbling between light armor and heavy armor, as well as clothing and blacksmithing to support each one respectively. Things are early, but I'm enjoying doing this so far. I'm mixing between Dual Wield and a bow, and both of these are working out very well with my abilities.

Like I said, I'm still early, only level 7, so I don't know how the build will pan out in the long run. But currently, I'm enjoying it, and learning a lot about it as I dabble with different skills and abilities.

Sharee · July 2014

Just a side note - right now, once you unlock the ability from an armor line, you can use it regardless of whether you wear that armor or not. So if you like the light armor ability, you can level light armor high enough to unlock it, then use it while wearing heavy armor.

kitsinni · July 2014

It can be done, it isn't my preference but it can be done. I don't think it is as much that NB has NO tanking skills, they just kind of pale in comparison to some of the others.

NB's in theory have one of the best things for tanking Dark Cloak (increase armor and spell resists and removes dots) with the passives, but they changed it so that they will automatically attack someone else in your party as soon as you cloak.

You hear people rave about strife and it's passives but honeslty 100-200hps are not that much from my perspective as a healer. Most attacks that take healing are taking off 50% of a tanks health anyway.

The best parts of NB are the Ultimate which is really spectacular and Siphoning Attacks but Leeching Strikes might be better either one could be debated. Is 2% health on light/heavy attacks better than your chances of getting Magicka/Stamina back on any attack? Your call.

When I do NB tanking I usually have both bars setup for tanking one with the undaunted taunt that relies on Magicka and one with the Sword/Shield taunt that relies on Stamina.

Aeratus · July 2014

I do NB tanking at V12 level, and I usually use all light armor.

With all light armor, you can reach 2400+ armor if you equip V12 rings with legendary +armor enchants. This is well above the soft cap of 1920, and is good enough for tanking, especially since most of the strongest boss attacks are magicka-based rather than physical-based.

Also, with light armor, the swap weapon should be either resto or destro staff. With resto, you can keep yourself healed at all times without dependence on the healer. Also, resto staff is used to build ultimate by healing your allies.

However, sometimes I use heavy armor if there are lots of physical damage mobs. With heavy armor you can reach hard cap (3150 armor at v12) without using any skills at all. You can use the outfitter addon to instantly switch between light and heavy armor in between battles.

One more thing in regards to light vs. heavy armor -- light armor tanking is more viable at high levels than at low levels, and is useful only if you combine it with lots of magicka skills (like a resto staff as the swap weapon).

Here are some of my favorite advantages of NB tanks:

1. Siphoning strikes lets you quickly regenerate stamina in the middle of battle. This combined with the passive gives NB the fastest stamina regeneration of any class.

2. Veil of blades reduces incoming damage by 60% for twenty seconds. That is a very long-lasting ultimate. It also crits to regenerate ultimate. Combine this with AOE-based skills that build ultimate fast and you can put this up very often.

3. The shades reduce boss damage by -15%. This makes up the difference against the sorc's bound armor skill when tanking in light armor. For tanking, choose the single shade morph with the bow rather than the two-shade morph.

4. Swallow soul gives you +10% healing received. This is an excellent passive buff. However, funnel health is also very good, because the heals on your allies can crit to generate ultimate.

I don't think it is as much that NB has NO tanking skills, they just kind of pale in comparison to some of the others.

I would like to hear what other skills of other classes you have in mind.

Sorc has an armor toggle, but more armor isn't that useful in the game, and you can still reach hard cap as NB even without using any skills, if you don't mind using heavy armor. DK has reflective scales and dragon blood. Both very good skills, but doesn't make or break tanking. In terms of non-tanking abilities, DK can add a lot of CC to the party, and Sorc's negate magic ultimate trivializes large AOE battles. But these abilities aren't strictly tanking abilities.

As to Temp, I've not played this class to any meaningful extent, but I'm generally impressed with Templar tanks. Templar seems very strong in the recent patch, but I don't know that much about their mechanics.

kitsinni · July 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

II would like to hear what other skills of other classes you have in mind.

.

A few that come to mind

DK
- Fiery grip for grabing mobs that run off
- Standard not quite as good of viel of blades but a close second
- Spiked Armor not only buffs armor but does damage to attackers
- Talons AE snare for big pulls that also does damage to them
- Dragon blood one of the best heals in the game
- Reflective Scale reflecting projectiles back
- Inhale to get magicka and health back
- Magma Armor caps incoming damage and does damage
- Obsidian Shield damage shield
- Ash Cloud AE snare
- Can buff entire parties weapon damage
This is just the base spells not even the morhps
Passives
- stamina resore on certain ability activation
- additional ultimate on ability activation
- Health/Stamina/Magicka on ultimate activation
- Additional Block
- Increased Health Recovery
- Increased spell resistance
- Increased Fire Damage

Sorc
- Shattering Prison ae snare
- Negate Magic probably the best CC in the game can make a whole group just stand there
- Dark Exchange magicka and health for stamina
- Deaderic Mines great CC
- Bound Armor helps make it easy to hit armor cap
- Conjured Ward self shield
- Lightning Form armor and spell resist while doing damage to those around you
- One of the best executes in game at range
- Pets if you want them (very situational)
Passives
- Increased Magicka recovery
- Reduced ultimate cost
- Increased health recovery
- Reduced Magicka and Stamina costs
- Heals when using dark magic
- Increased critical

kitsinni · July 2014

Templar
- Multiple AE attacks and ones that do damage to everyone who stays in the area
- Charge that does AE damage and interrupts and stuns
- Sun shield absurdly good self damage shield that does damage when activated and after morph does a lot of damage back and synergizes with passives to proc even more damage
- Nova enemies do less damage while taking damage
- Eclipse reflect spells back
- Blinding Light increases miss damage of enemies
- Restoring Aura increase health and stamina recovery also on activation does it for the whole group
- Rune Focus creates an area of protection increases spell resistance and armor
- Spectacular heals that don't require a resto staff
- Empowrering Sweep AE Ultimate that does damage and you take reduced damage
- Nova AE Ultimate enemies do less damage while taking damage

Passives
- Reduced Stamina Magicka and Ultimate cost
- Increased spell resistance if attacker is affected by Dawn's Wraith
- Ultimate on some activations
- Increase crit increase damage vs blocking
- Increased block amount
- 25% chance to do high damage when using Aedric Spear
- Increased Weapon Damage and Spell Resistance

Nestor · July 2014

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I dunno, unless leveling got faster while I was away, my main character is barely level 12, and I got some pretty good time in within the first month of the game's release.

I used to wonder how people got leveled so quickly as I was not leveling quickly but spending tons of time in the game. Then I started doing quests and the levels started coming in fast. It helps to go back to the old starter islands, you can come out of those at level 5 to 8 depending and be ready for what is around the first city you come to for your alliance. I also got a Skyshard Map Addon so now I tend to have more skill points than I know what to do with (or at least I am waiting for something to unlock).

Also, keeping your Skill Bar populated with the skills you want to raise, even if you are not actively using that skill for a while, can help. Its what I did to get a class skill up high enough to get the second and third skills unlocked, even though I never used the first one.

I also have researched the traits for Training for most Armor and Weapon lines so those now build up quickly at lower levels.

Azzuria · July 2014

Maybe I'll find you with my NB Healer. Syphon the living sh** out of EVERYTHING!

Sharee · July 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

3. The shades reduce boss damage by -15%. This makes up the difference against the sorc's bound armor skill when tanking in light armor. For tanking, choose the single shade morph with the bow rather than the two-shade morph.

Interesting, may i ask why? I believe the shades cannot be harmed, so it does not matter where they stand.

Aeratus · July 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

3. The shades reduce boss damage by -15%. This makes up the difference against the sorc's bound armor skill when tanking in light armor. For tanking, choose the single shade morph with the bow rather than the two-shade morph.

Interesting, may i ask why? I believe the shades cannot be harmed, so it does not matter where they stand.

The single-shade morph lasts a little longer, but it's not a big difference. I also like the single-shade morph because it looks cleaner and didn't confuse people as much. xD

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Just a side note - right now, once you unlock the ability from an armor line, you can use it regardless of whether you wear that armor or not. So if you like the light armor ability, you can level light armor high enough to unlock it, then use it while wearing heavy armor.

Yea, I was thinking that same thing.

All I can say is that, probably for the first time since playing this game, I am actively looking forward to logging back into my character. Last night might have been the longest single session I've had since playing this game.

So that's probably a good sign

Shunravi · July 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

3. The shades reduce boss damage by -15%. This makes up the difference against the sorc's bound armor skill when tanking in light armor. For tanking, choose the single shade morph with the bow rather than the two-shade morph.

Interesting, may i ask why? I believe the shades cannot be harmed, so it does not matter where they stand.

The single-shade morph lasts a little longer, but it's not a big difference. I also like the single-shade morph because it looks cleaner and didn't confuse people as much. xD

The other benifit to the single shade morph is the tp. If you use it right, it's a quick way to mitigate damage or reposition a boss.