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How do you think the new Justice system should work?
RSram
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After I watched the Quakecon 2014 video and saw the justice system, I thought that I would throw in my two cents.
1) The only containers that the Justice System would apply to are those in full view of the guards and vendors. Other crates and such around docks and houses are exempt from the Justice system as this would allow the difficulty of gathering provisioning items to remain the same.
2) All items that are under the Justice system would be high value items worth stealing. All vendors would have a magical totem or ward that negates stealth and invisibility spells. If you are caught stealing in a house by the occupant, one or more guards will be waiting for you outside.
3) If you denied the fine demanded by the guards, a bounty will be immediately placed on your head and a fight with ensue. The guards are beatable but have almost the same difficulty level of a world boss in that area. The guards will not drop loot if they are killed. You have only a minute or two before more guards will approach you; these guards will have a higher difficulty than the previous ones. Whether you flee from justice, or fight the guards and win, after a 24 hour cool down period, you will always have the option to pay the bounty or fine when approached by other guards, but if you don't a fight will ensue again. The whole point of the justice system is to make your game play more difficult.
4) The penalty for getting caught will be high, but comparable to the level of the character and each item that was stolen; for example if you stole two items, a superior armor valued at 70 gold and a fine sword at 45 gold, and you are at level 50 and get caught, then the fine would be 2,320 gold:
Where : L = Player’s level, S = Sum of the items stolen, and F = Fine
The formula would be as follows from the above example: L (S) = F
Plugging in the example above the fine would be as follows:
50 ( 70 + 45) = 2,320 in gold
5) So the more stolen items you are caught with, the higher your fine; for example you stole 5 items at the values of: 45, 20, 60, 32, 90; your fine would be 4,657 gold if you were at level 50, but the fine would be 1,957 gold if you were at level 20.
6) You can pay the guards a partial fine that is 10% of the total every 24 hours or more, but should a fight with the guards ensue again, then the original fine is reinstated. If you were a level 50 character you could pay the guard 10% or 232 gold every 24 hours or more if your total fine was 2320 gold.
6) Not paying the fine will result in the following scenarios:
a. To finish or start a quest in the town where you have a bounty on you, you would need to stay clear of the person you stole from, the town guards and other vendors. In other words, you would not be able to do business in that town with the exception of quests.
b. Other players can query about any open bounties by talking to the vendors or guards in each town which will result in a bounty quest.
c. A bounty placed on your head will be double the amount of your fine in gold to any player who kills you; You will be outlined in RED to players of the same alliance, who have accepted the bounty quest against you.
d. If you are killed by bounty hunters (other players), any gold or loot you are carrying will be shared amongst the bounty hunters. Due to the Code of Conduct amongst warriors of Tamriel, equipment and weapons that you are wearing will not be taken ( warriors are always buried with the gear and weapons that they died in battle with)
e. You gain nothing if you kill the bounty hunters, no skill points, etc.
So this is my idea of what a justice system might look like.
Rich
1) The only containers that the Justice System would apply to are those in full view of the guards and vendors. Other crates and such around docks and houses are exempt from the Justice system as this would allow the difficulty of gathering provisioning items to remain the same.
2) All items that are under the Justice system would be high value items worth stealing. All vendors would have a magical totem or ward that negates stealth and invisibility spells. If you are caught stealing in a house by the occupant, one or more guards will be waiting for you outside.
3) If you denied the fine demanded by the guards, a bounty will be immediately placed on your head and a fight with ensue. The guards are beatable but have almost the same difficulty level of a world boss in that area. The guards will not drop loot if they are killed. You have only a minute or two before more guards will approach you; these guards will have a higher difficulty than the previous ones. Whether you flee from justice, or fight the guards and win, after a 24 hour cool down period, you will always have the option to pay the bounty or fine when approached by other guards, but if you don't a fight will ensue again. The whole point of the justice system is to make your game play more difficult.
4) The penalty for getting caught will be high, but comparable to the level of the character and each item that was stolen; for example if you stole two items, a superior armor valued at 70 gold and a fine sword at 45 gold, and you are at level 50 and get caught, then the fine would be 2,320 gold:
Where : L = Player’s level, S = Sum of the items stolen, and F = Fine
The formula would be as follows from the above example: L (S) = F
Plugging in the example above the fine would be as follows:
50 ( 70 + 45) = 2,320 in gold
5) So the more stolen items you are caught with, the higher your fine; for example you stole 5 items at the values of: 45, 20, 60, 32, 90; your fine would be 4,657 gold if you were at level 50, but the fine would be 1,957 gold if you were at level 20.
6) You can pay the guards a partial fine that is 10% of the total every 24 hours or more, but should a fight with the guards ensue again, then the original fine is reinstated. If you were a level 50 character you could pay the guard 10% or 232 gold every 24 hours or more if your total fine was 2320 gold.
6) Not paying the fine will result in the following scenarios:
a. To finish or start a quest in the town where you have a bounty on you, you would need to stay clear of the person you stole from, the town guards and other vendors. In other words, you would not be able to do business in that town with the exception of quests.
b. Other players can query about any open bounties by talking to the vendors or guards in each town which will result in a bounty quest.
c. A bounty placed on your head will be double the amount of your fine in gold to any player who kills you; You will be outlined in RED to players of the same alliance, who have accepted the bounty quest against you.
d. If you are killed by bounty hunters (other players), any gold or loot you are carrying will be shared amongst the bounty hunters. Due to the Code of Conduct amongst warriors of Tamriel, equipment and weapons that you are wearing will not be taken ( warriors are always buried with the gear and weapons that they died in battle with)
e. You gain nothing if you kill the bounty hunters, no skill points, etc.
So this is my idea of what a justice system might look like.
Rich
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Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It looks to me like you are trying to find loopholes around the system so that you can steal to your hearts content while having hardly any penalty.
The system will work fine. I'm sure there will be tons of stuff to loot in dungeons and bandit camps and whatnot that won't fall under thievery. After all, that's how it has been in the single player games and it seems that ESO is taking the idea from there. In the Single Player games, guards didn't care if you stole from bandits the same as you wouldn't incur a bounty for killing bandits in bandit caves.
You start stealing from and killing honest citizens, you are going to have to pay the price.
"We're watching you.... scum."Edited by Tabbycat on July 19, 2014 9:08PMFounder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%5 -
zdkazz✭✭✭✭It looks to me like you are trying to find loopholes around the system so that you can steal to your hearts content while having hardly any penalty.
The system will work fine. I'm sure there will be tons of stuff to loot in dungeons and bandit camps and whatnot that won't fall under thievery. After all, that's how it has been in the single player games and it seems that ESO is taking the idea from there. In the Single Player games, guards didn't care if you stole from bandits the same as you wouldn't incur a bounty for killing bandits in bandit caves.
You start stealing from and killing honest citizens, you are going to have to pay the price.
"We're watching you.... scum."
indeed,they will be hunted ruthlessly, if you still a fork within 23 miles of me i will find you...
4 -
Mr.Turtlesworth✭✭✭✭they should be put in stocks and people should be able to throw vegetables at them once they are caught.Edited by Mr.Turtlesworth on July 19, 2014 9:58PMI r robot
hear me roar1 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭It looks to me like you are trying to find loopholes around the system so that you can steal to your hearts content while having hardly any penalty.
The system will work fine. I'm sure there will be tons of stuff to loot in dungeons and bandit camps and whatnot that won't fall under thievery. After all, that's how it has been in the single player games and it seems that ESO is taking the idea from there. In the Single Player games, guards didn't care if you stole from bandits the same as you wouldn't incur a bounty for killing bandits in bandit caves.
You start stealing from and killing honest citizens, you are going to have to pay the price.
"We're watching you.... scum."
Did you even read my entire post; explain to me where the loop-holes are? I was explaining how (within the current construct of the game) to have a really brutal justice system that punishes the player if he gets caught stealing. I also referred to making the loot from stealing really high valued items, but tough to steal because no magic could be used to aid in the theft.
I can't wait to see the finished product.
Rich0 -
GFBStarWars✭✭✭forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/121135/ideas-for-justice-system-if-not-already-present#latest
this are mine ideas, haven't finished reading your post though, will update this while i read
don't really like 1st point, everything should be collectible and be marked as stolen, only guild where u are member or friendly npc ( u done quest for them) will tollerate theft.
i actually hope that theft and murder will have serious repercussion, so that player have to be intelligent in doing it and not just hide and click on container.Edited by GFBStarWars on July 20, 2014 6:25AM0 -
epoling✭✭✭✭I would say theft and murder should have such stiff penalties that you really don't want to do it. I am tired of games making it seem like a great thing to be totally without morals. Sorry, but we have raised a generation that honestly does not understand that murder, thievery, etc are always wrong. Sorry - no matter how hard you try to justify it, there is no valid excuse for being a criminal. If you think there is you are morally deficient. I am not rich, I have the same problems as everybody else, it doesn't mean it is okay for me to rob somebody at gunpoint in order to pay my rent or buy food. And it doesn't mean it is okay for me to do so in a game where I actually have quite a bit more money than the average NPC. The justice system needs to make be a criminal as undesirable as possible.2 -
cracker81✭✭✭In my opinion I would like it open more as into players and more as in a jail system as well as ppl can see your past deeds. So, then ppl will think before committing the crime. The jail system is fine now and I think ppl will try it the first month. Then will think before doing it. I can see ppl tricking noobs into casting a spell by Npc. Lol0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It will work exactly how the devs are designing it to work and all these threads speculating as to what their opinion of what they don't even know is going to happen are completely pointless. There is literally no reason to speculate as to this or that from the Future of ESO panel/Quakecon coverage because all of it isn't even finished. Once it's at least on PTS and players have the ability to test it out THEN we can have these discussions.How do you think the new Justice system should work?2 -
GFBStarWars✭✭✭don't know to who are u referring this too, but because they are in development of it its important to give them ideas and to know how the community feel about some stuff that its included or it wasn't shown at quake con.
if they finish it and put it on pts there is a little chache to change important stuff0 -
cracker81✭✭✭I would say theft and murder should have such stiff penalties that you really don't want to do it. I am tired of games making it seem like a great thing to be totally without morals. Sorry, but we have raised a generation that honestly does not understand that murder, thievery, etc are always wrong. Sorry - no matter how hard you try to justify it, there is no valid excuse for being a criminal. If you think there is you are morally deficient. I am not rich, I have the same problems as everybody else, it doesn't mean it is okay for me to rob somebody at gunpoint in order to pay my rent or buy food. And it doesn't mean it is okay for me to do so in a game where I actually have quite a bit more money than the average NPC. The justice system needs to make be a criminal as undesirable as possible.
I agree, with justice system needing more as in where ppl can see pass deeds(it will effect a player due to raids/guilds/way Npc talk to you/players view you/cyrodiil have penalty of going). I would make where they can do it to players as well. With a toggle between as in friendly, neutral, and hostile. If a player decides on beating another player a choice will happen when the other player reaches death. Victim will go unconscious for 5 secs, the offend can decide to kill or just leave it at that. Why? To make ppl think as well as making the price of the crime higher. Why have it in the game then? Give players a choice. You can then see who is your enemy in your ranks as well. Educational reason help some kids grow up and understand what you do in life can effect you in many ways to the job you get, to the way ppl see you. RP stand point add a lot immersion into your toon. What about victim in game would get something from said player when caught. If done right you would only have a few or none committing crimes. I think what eso is doing in mmo is a step stone which a lot of mmo companies are watching. It would solve a lot of things in game as well, as in a social stand point.0 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I think the justice system is just going to make it harder to get food ingredients. They should put all of it on the vendors now that they are going to make normal gathering practices in cities a crime.0 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would say theft and murder should have such stiff penalties that you really don't want to do it. I am tired of games making it seem like a great thing to be totally without morals. Sorry, but we have raised a generation that honestly does not understand that murder, thievery, etc are always wrong. Sorry - no matter how hard you try to justify it, there is no valid excuse for being a criminal. If you think there is you are morally deficient. I am not rich, I have the same problems as everybody else, it doesn't mean it is okay for me to rob somebody at gunpoint in order to pay my rent or buy food. And it doesn't mean it is okay for me to do so in a game where I actually have quite a bit more money than the average NPC. The justice system needs to make be a criminal as undesirable as possible.
Why are you even playing games?
They are fantasy, an escape from reality.
Just look at some of the quest choices and tasks we are given, most of the game is based around killing.
If you can't differentiate between fantasy and real life then its you that has the problem.
Example, in all TES games I enjoy playing a thief. I enjoy the challenge of getting into something, taking something and escaping unseen.
A few months ago I left my local supermarket and near to my car I found a wallet containing over £300. I handed it in to the stores customer service, they checked the contents in front of me and took my name and address. A couple of hrs later a card came through the door thanking me and giving me £20.
I simply do not buy it that normal properly adjusted adults (and kids) morals are affected by a fantasy (or any other) game.
It's fine for me and 19 guildies to suround a couple of players in PvP and blast them to pieces, it's fine for me to walk into some camp in PvE and kill all quest NPC's there, but if I PLAY a thief, suddenly I have bad morals?Edited by Ojustaboo on July 20, 2014 7:45AM1 -
GFBStarWars✭✭✭I would say theft and murder should have such stiff penalties that you really don't want to do it. I am tired of games making it seem like a great thing to be totally without morals. Sorry, but we have raised a generation that honestly does not understand that murder, thievery, etc are always wrong. Sorry - no matter how hard you try to justify it, there is no valid excuse for being a criminal. If you think there is you are morally deficient. I am not rich, I have the same problems as everybody else, it doesn't mean it is okay for me to rob somebody at gunpoint in order to pay my rent or buy food. And it doesn't mean it is okay for me to do so in a game where I actually have quite a bit more money than the average NPC. The justice system needs to make be a criminal as undesirable as possible.
Why are you even playing games?
They are fantasy, an escape from reality.
Just look at some of the quest choices and tasks we are given, most of the game is based around killing.
If you can't differentiate between fantasy and real life then its you that has the problem.
Example, in all TES games I enjoy playing a thief. I enjoy the challenge of getting into something, taking something and escaping unseen.
A few months ago I left my local supermarket and near to my car I found a wallet containing over £300. I handed it in to the stores customer service, they checked the contents in front of me and took my name and address. A couple of hrs later a card came through the door thanking me and giving me £20.
I simply do not buy it that normal properly adjusted adults (and kids) morals are affected by a fantasy (or any other) game.
It's fine for me and 19 guildies to suround a couple of players in PvP and blast them to pieces, it's fine for me to walk into some camp in PvE and kill all quest NPC's there, but if I PLAY a thief, suddenly I have bad morals?
of curse its a game but stealing should be harder and have negative effect or you would have everyone going around and stealing with no consequences why are they even implementing the whole system
then if u think a game its an escape from reality i hope that you'l go see a doctor0 -
Hamfast✭✭✭✭✭I would hope that "Stealing" would increase your chance to get better stuff... not the same stuff but worth a gold... Get caught, you pay a small fine and lose the stolen items that are still in your pack... Mail them to a friend (Item laundering)...
Murder is another issue entirely, go on a killing spree and your bribe "Fine" gets real high... at some level, your status changes to KOS... if your behavior continues to be very antisocial, once you are caught, the guards ask you one last time to pay your fine, pay it and all is forgiven (But not forgotten) start killing again and you are right back on the hit list...Fail to pay the fine and the King, Queen, Magistrate, Mayor or whomever is in charge, Executes you... not just killing you, but removing that character from play permanently... just like King Jorrun executed his brother, that guy in Auberon executes his son (Treason), the Mage who turned the town folks to stone... and so on... they are dead, they are removed from the story beyond an historical footnote...Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...0 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭GFBStarWars wrote: »I would say theft and murder should have such stiff penalties that you really don't want to do it. I am tired of games making it seem like a great thing to be totally without morals. Sorry, but we have raised a generation that honestly does not understand that murder, thievery, etc are always wrong. Sorry - no matter how hard you try to justify it, there is no valid excuse for being a criminal. If you think there is you are morally deficient. I am not rich, I have the same problems as everybody else, it doesn't mean it is okay for me to rob somebody at gunpoint in order to pay my rent or buy food. And it doesn't mean it is okay for me to do so in a game where I actually have quite a bit more money than the average NPC. The justice system needs to make be a criminal as undesirable as possible.
Why are you even playing games?
They are fantasy, an escape from reality.
Just look at some of the quest choices and tasks we are given, most of the game is based around killing.
If you can't differentiate between fantasy and real life then its you that has the problem.
Example, in all TES games I enjoy playing a thief. I enjoy the challenge of getting into something, taking something and escaping unseen.
A few months ago I left my local supermarket and near to my car I found a wallet containing over £300. I handed it in to the stores customer service, they checked the contents in front of me and took my name and address. A couple of hrs later a card came through the door thanking me and giving me £20.
I simply do not buy it that normal properly adjusted adults (and kids) morals are affected by a fantasy (or any other) game.
It's fine for me and 19 guildies to suround a couple of players in PvP and blast them to pieces, it's fine for me to walk into some camp in PvE and kill all quest NPC's there, but if I PLAY a thief, suddenly I have bad morals?
of curse its a game but stealing should be harder and have negative effect or you would have everyone going around and stealing with no consequences why are they even implementing the whole system
Yep I agree totally, hence it's called a justice system.
Doesn't stop me loathing the self righteous preaching of people playing a game based around killing people, who complain something is immoral.
Edited by Ojustaboo on July 20, 2014 8:34AM0 -
Jakonn✭✭My take is that I'd just go with the most realistic scenario. Skyrim had pretty credible system... to some measure. No need to bring up the baskets. Stealing ingredients and little stuff would be a nice addition. If someone steals your apple maybe you'll cuss about it for a minute or two, but you won't go calling all the guards to kill the guy. I wouldn't... If I'm having a good day. Then again people and merchants are bound to have their valuables more tightly locked up. Perhaps excluding some samples merchants might have put on display. Still, I'm against a nerf system in which when you steal something you'll automatically end up labeled criminal and everyone starts chasing you or there's some all seeing magic stalking you. If you see something and can use your skills of stealth or magic to take it then why not? Realism. That's my key word.0 -
Animus_Igneus✭✭✭Sounds good.
...Until 6c and 6d
You haven't really put that much thought into the ways other players' minds work outside of your own.
I'm sure in including this you wanted realism and you probably wanted to be a guard/bounty hunter character and hunt down le criminals.
Well that's all well and good when it comes to you, but think about the no-so-nice people in the world who like to ruin games for others.
They would abuse the living hell out of that system, building up massive bounties and then letting their friend kill them, and then doing the same thing over, and over, and over.
Get rid of 6C, 6D and by default 6E and you've got my vote and likely the favor of every other rational player who thought past how l33t it would be to kill criminal scum and get big money.Edited by Animus_Igneus on July 20, 2014 9:40AMCurrent Guildmaster of the (EU) Imperial Trading Company
The original ESO Merchant Guild0 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭No real penalty there.
I will steal something small while complete naked and all inventory in the bank. I have friends kill me for a big reward, then after ten times I will do the same for him.
Profit?
The penalty to you has to be double any gain made by someone else. To keep it from being excited.
Or roll a new tool, comic crime, you have nothing to take away as a penalty, but your friend just kills you for a reward. That will be an exploit.Edited by NadiusMaximus on July 20, 2014 10:02AM1 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭Animus_Igneus wrote: »Sounds good.
...Until 6c and 6d
You haven't really put that much thought into the ways other players' minds work outside of your own.
I'm sure in including this you wanted realism and you probably wanted to be a guard/bounty hunter character and hunt down le criminals.
Well that's all well and good when it comes to you, but think about the no-so-nice people in the world who like to ruin games for others.
They would abuse the living hell out of that system, building up massive bounties and then letting their friend kill them, and then doing the same thing over, and over, and over.
Get rid of 6C, 6D and by default 6E and you've got my vote and likely the favor of every other rational player who thought past how l33t it would be to kill criminal scum and get big money.
Excellent point that I over looked, maybe 6c, d, and e should only apply to the NPC guards or town folk!
Which you just brought up another point: before the developers introduce a new system wouldn't it be smart to post the proposal in the forum to get feedback from the users first before committing to code?
Lot of really sharp and smart players out there.
Great replies so far,
Rick0 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do we need a brutal system that punishes players for anything. This is a feature, why would you punish the player for playing the game as intended.
Obviously there should be consequences, that's part of the fun. But it shouldn't be "brutal" or actually "punish" anyone.
I also don't understand what is wrong with being a socio/psychopath in game, at least towards NPCs. This is not indicative of poor character on my part, nor does it encourage me to be bad in real life, I am playing pretend, and I like to pretend I am a horrible human being, since I spend my time in real life trying to be a good human being.
I don't understand playing the same thing in game as you are in real life, personally. I just assume everyone who wants to play a knight in shining armor in game is a criminal in real life, or at the very least, morally corrupt.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
I am not liking the way this looks. I literally spend hours just logging into alts to get provisioning mats everyday just so I can make enough money to buy bank space or bag space(which I think should be for all alts not just the one who buys it). This is going to cost me more money getting out of jail than it would to sell the made food.
I also think this is just a gold sink for the earlier exploits that were in this game. But since I do not play 8 hours a day I do not have hundreds of thousands of gold. This will hurt the casual gamer more than I think they will enjoy it.1 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭wwusterbarthub17_ESO wrote: »I am not liking the way this looks. I literally spend hours just logging into alts to get provisioning mats everyday just so I can make enough money to buy bank space or bag space(which I think should be for all alts not just the one who buys it). This is going to cost me more money getting out of jail than it would to sell the made food.
I also think this is just a gold sink for the earlier exploits that were in this game. But since I do not play 8 hours a day I do not have hundreds of thousands of gold. This will hurt the casual gamer more than I think they will enjoy it.
I play like 12 hours a day and do not have a lot of gold, but if you watched the video, the fine was 5g for getting caught. However, these ingredients will be more valuable now, possibly even having a straight gold value.
I think it will benefit you in the long run.
Also selling food isn't much of a money maker, I'd try something else, like enchanting.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.0