The obligatory DOOM thread.

timidobserver · July 2014

ZOS: "We want to stress that all of this is still in motion. This is just a snap shot of where we are now. All of this may change based on feedback."
Dumb guy from forums: "Doom doom doom. You keel game."

Ralathar44 · July 2014

Murmeltier wrote: »

*stuff*

I want to be clear I'm not ignoring your post while I don't agree with it. I also want to say that I am not talking down to you when I say the following because I understand English is not likely your first language.

I hate to say it but you're going to be taken less seriously by alot of people because your English, while pretty good, still has issues. It's kind of like you are in the uncanny valley of English. Close enough to be almost there, but far enough away to where people can look and see it's not quite right. If you had not identified yourself via the German saying some folks would just consider you to be less intelligent.

I don't think you're less intelligent because you are learning English and you're very close to mastering it. That's quite an accomplishment, English is a sucky language to learn from what I understand. But I did want you to be aware you'd be facing this stigma with some folks.

But I can promise you I am not trying to manipulate anyone and I'm not trying to use social engineering, if I was I'd be ALOT (yes I heard you Vanathi, I read everything

) more subtle. For example I'm not trying to make you feel good like I'm on your side with that comment. Like I said before I don't take sides.

I'm also not disrespecting you, and no matter how much you may say otherwise or insinuate that my disagreement is disrespect or insert insinuations about you I never made I will stick to that.

You didn't offer your time for nothing, you just didn't get back what you wanted. You went in with false expectations.

Ralathar44 · July 2014

Kayira wrote: »

Rala, I feel honored that you have looked at my comment history.
I am not going to argue with you because there are more important things in my life. I never said I am telling the truth in the champion or spellcrafting thread. I only told the forum of my worry for specific bits.

I just realised I am again starting to tell you my opinion again and trying to explain myself towards you agaon so I will just stop and leave it as that.

Which is precisely what I am doing. This is my worry, my opinion. No matter how many times you say I'm holding it as fact I'm the one that speaks for me, not you. Because I'm me lol.

Totally signed and end of my time in this thread.

Good luck. It's going to take willpower

. I'd say "I'll be rooting for you" but somebody would likely assign it a negative connotation.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Ralathar44 wrote: »

I'm going to say right now, with a sad heart and no malice, that I predict the death of ESO. By death I mean significant decline of course, not actual servers shutting down. I've watched a great many people do this and laughed. I would have never believed I'd ever be the one prophesying doom for a game. But here I am lol. They just don't get some of the fundamentals of MMORPG's That's why they were able to do some great things with the game, but it is also why they had so many bad things and are not trying to finish killing it.

This is not based off of my personal feelings. I like this game and alot of the things it has done. ALOT. I enjoy it. I'm semi-burned out on it partially due to some of it's failings but that's not why this is here. This is here based on my understandings of MMORPG's and their mechanics that I have learned over the course of 15 years of playing and dissecting MMORPG's starting with Dark Age of Camelot and including many many others.

I watched the quake con presentation and some of the new changes are going to kill the game. But I don't expect you to really believe me, half of you are so committed to the game that you wouldn't believe me if it was on fire with you in the middle of it. But for the other half of you I'll try to explain why I think this.

Believe me or not, that is your choice. All I ask is that you stop and really think about each of these points and what they mean for the game. For you, for your friends, for your guild mates. AFTER the shiny wears off of em.

Now the really controversial part, where your initial reaction will be that these are all good things:

1. Grouping updates.

Yes, they did mention this in their presentation. However they said it would be fixed over the course of a few updates. That could be as late as early 2015 to fully fix it (if it's rolled out incrementally).

This should be their #1 priority in the game right now. It's the biggest problem that is costing the game population and it needs to be fixed now, within 1-2 months. There are alot of quests and code is hard, I understand that, people that cannot team with their friends ultimately don't care.

2. Justice System:

I actually think overall that this is really nice overall. However I think there is about a 1 in 3 chance that something significantly bad is going to happen because of the justice system. I'm not sure if it'll be griefing or an oversight that negatively effects the economy, but after their presentation I was left with a heavy feeling that there will be a significant loophole that will cause alot of problems.

That being said, this is only a chance and it could be minor, it's not near as big of a worry as the other points.

3. Stamina Builds:

Yes they are looking into them, however even if they implement the changes they mentioned without issues or bugs in the current state of the game stamina builds will still be easily inferior to magicka builds.

At least it'll be better but there are a good amount of people whose patience really is running out. I like my stamina builds, they are my favorite builds honestly, it still bothers me that I cannot build viably without magicka abilities and that won't change so long as most non-weapon skill lines are magicka based. Because they have all the utility they we need AND they use a separate resource pool.

Oh, and now we have spell crafting to make stamina builds even LESS competitive.

4. Spell Crafting:

PVE and PVP balance completely destroyed. Simple as that. PVE balance is already bad , PVP balance is still completely broken. This addition would be enough to easily break a balanced game, this one isn't even close to balanced.

PVE will still be playable and fun, don't get me wrong, but the balance is going to be even worse borked than it currently is.

5. Plans to implement a battleground.

This will kill Cyrodil populations. They are aware of that, they say they will find away to implement it where that will not happen. This is simply not possible. If you implement alternative PVP and people play it, you will lower Cyrodil populations. The better and more rewarding that alternative PVP is, the more people will leave Cyrodil. Especially because it will be instant action and balanced vs having to find it and possibly being outnumbered.

There is literally no way to implement alternative PVP without lowering the open world population, it's as simple as that.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all bad. Facial animation, new armor sets, dungeon scaling, veteran rank improvements, champion levels, improved character customization and specialization, combat responsiveness, werewolf buffs, solo being included in end game, weapon swapping.

These are all good things. But the points listed are major things that will break an already half broken game.

P.S. In case I actually get moderated for presenting my opinion supported by points that DO at least have SOME merit, I have copied this thread and saved it in a word file and will spread it in sites beyond just this forum and reddit. But I'd like to keep it very focused and exercise my free speech without undue censorship if at all possible. Regardless of whether you consider me right or wrong.

The only thing that will kill this game more is the slow rate at which they do things Balance wise. And the Champion point system i don't see being in game for another year, in all seriousness its their delusional plans that will kill this game . a crap load of talk and not a whole lot of walk

Ralathar44 · July 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

ZOS: "We want to stress that all of this is still in motion. This is just a snap shot of where we are now. All of this may change based on feedback."
Dumb guy from forums: "Doom doom doom. You keel game."

They've gone in front of thousands of people and said "We are doing this!!" and got applause. That's not something you can just go "lol mulligan" and fix. For example if something was being abused with the Justice system and they had to change stealing for value after it was implemented there would be like 10 threads on it in record time. If they canceled it completely, even if they had justified reason, people would flip out.

You know why I used that system as an example, because that's comparatively minor and people would still flip out.

Jarnhand · July 2014

Its horrible broken balance wise already, and they are going to introduce something that looks to be impossible to balance (spellcrafting), on top of the current balance mess. And on top of that some realm justice system, yeah, looking forward to the grief threads...
Well its sad, game had potential. Hope the PvE crowd will enjoy it for a while.

Ralathar44 · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

The only thing that will kill this game more is the slow rate at which they do things Balance wise. And the Champion point system i don't see being in game for another year, in all seriousness its their delusional plans that will kill this game . a crap load of talk and not a whole lot of walk

I have a little sympathy for them on turnaround time. At a big company like they are doing they have to clear multiple levels of management and clear lore checks and all sorts of other crap, then they get to make the fix, then they get to test it, then they get to put it into a build, then they get to decide when that build goes out, then we get it.

So a small studio can make a change and implement it almost immediately. But a big cumbersome studio might take a month just to roll out a change a smaller studio can easily implement in between a day and a week.

Too much organization, too much bureaucracy, and it's hard to keep all the teams in touch with one another to make sure everyone is on the same page.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

all of these types of thread just need to be condensed into one big thread. It would save so much time if I wanted to hear people bash the game and then tell me I am delusional and/or a fanboy for disagreeing with them.

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

The only thing that will kill this game more is the slow rate at which they do things Balance wise. And the Champion point system i don't see being in game for another year, in all seriousness its their delusional plans that will kill this game . a crap load of talk and not a whole lot of walk

I have a little sympathy for them on turnaround time. At a big company like they are doing they have to clear multiple levels of management and clear lore checks and all sorts of other crap, then they get to make the fix, then they get to test it, then they get to put it into a build, then they get to decide when that build goes out, then we get it.

So a small studio can make a change and implement it almost immediately. But a big cumbersome studio might take a month just to roll out a change a smaller studio can easily implement in between a day and a week.

Too much organization, too much bureaucracy, and it's hard to keep all the teams in touch with one another to make sure everyone is on the same page.

I wonder if that is why Trion was so damn Effective. Those guys Ripped out content while making daily fixes on a live server .

Aortick · July 2014

Does your Glass contain any Water? Half Full or Half Empty is one thing, yours sounds Completely Void of anything.
You sound like your quite the Expert with your 15 years of Expertise. Maybe it's time you make your Own Game. Btw, Real Gamers Solo the Challenging Content, Groups are for the Weak, hehe.

Ralathar44 · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

I wonder if that is why Trion was so damn Effective. Those guys Ripped out content while making daily fixes on a live server .

Prolly one reason. I think their team had 300 employees across multiple games and then in 2013 they laid off like 100 of them. I'm assuming they hired more back for Archeage development though.

Still, divided between their projects you'd likely have 50-100 per game as a maximum employee count. Compare that to Zenimax studios that has 250 employees for only ESO.

There are alot of reasons things happen faster or slower, large company organization is just one of them that prevents even quick fixes from being quick.

Buck · July 2014

Dam! so your predicting the future doom of ESO??? In order to "believe" the guy on fire screaming doom I need a little more proof of how you predict the future, and what else you predict for the future.

Maybe your from the future and came back to warn us all? no no that can't happen. hmm you won millions off the lottery, of course right? maybe your a meteorologist we all know they are never wrong... or do you work at a carnival and read palms during the day? well anyway thank you for using you prophetic talents to warn us all. I had my own thoughts on upcoming changes and thank you for setting me straight nostradamus. ...but then again you must have known that.

Ralathar44 · July 2014

Aortick wrote: »

Does your Glass contain any Water? Half Full or Half Empty is one thing, yours sounds Completely Void of anything.
You sound like your quite the Expert with your 15 years of Expertise. Maybe it's time you make your Own Game. Btw, Real Gamers Solo the Challenging Content, Groups are for the Weak, hehe.

No, my glass only contains distilled essence of doom. It nourishes me. Because I'm evil. Because I hold a negative view of the game. In some aspects only.

I actually do plan on making my own game, likely a throwaway one for the first one because to be honest it's unrealistic to expect my first game to be good. While I'm sure some of my experience will translate there will still be other things I won't know, like collusion detection

.

But I do have a couple game projects that I will likely make even if it takes me 10 years. I'm not kidding, if It takes me that long to iron out and make those ideas because I didn't end up finding other folks/companies I trusted I'll learn it all and do it all in time. I'm either committed or I should be committed lol. Right now though, learning programming, so I need a little more experience in that first haha. Still finishing and refining my design documents as well.

Had a few of my friends asking me about it, they dropped f bombs and I quote "and I thought I was being ambitious". I might be biting off more than I can chew lol. But it should be a good learning opportunity if nothing else.

SirAndy · July 2014

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong

Don't get me wrong, but you might want to tone down your use of "Don't get me wrong" a bit ...

Ralathar44 · July 2014

Buck wrote: »

Dam! so your predicting the future doom of ESO??? In order to "believe" the guy on fire screaming doom I need a little more proof of how you predict the future, and what else you predict for the future.

Either you think my arguments stand on their own merits or you don't. It's as simple as that. I don't expect anyone else to believe me on their own and I don't consider myself infallible, I am of course capable of being wrong.

I know both of those things are anti-internet forums, but nonetheless that's my stance.

SirAndy wrote: »

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong

Don't get me wrong, but you might want to tone down your use of "Don't get me wrong" a bit ...

*deepens his voice* Don't get me wrong.

Did I do better?

plamillusionub17_ESO · July 2014

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Buck wrote: »

Dam! so your predicting the future doom of ESO??? In order to "believe" the guy on fire screaming doom I need a little more proof of how you predict the future, and what else you predict for the future.

Either you think my arguments stand on their own merits or you don't. It's as simple as that. I don't expect anyone else to believe me on their own and I don't consider myself infallible, I am of course capable of being wrong.

I know both of those things are anti-internet forums, but nonetheless that's my stance.

SirAndy wrote: »

Ralathar44 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong

Don't get me wrong, but you might want to tone down your use of "Don't get me wrong" a bit ...

*deepens his voice* Don't get me wrong.

Did I do better?

If you want your arguments to stand on their own merits, then why the resume of past predictions? They add no weight to your arguments, tbh they make it hard (er) to take what you say seriously.

Arora · July 2014

While, the game might take a dip in numbers right now, in about year or two after they are released a lot of content updates, you will see a lot of people coming back to check out the game. It always happens, I plan on being capped out and at the top when the floods start coming back.. It will happen trust me

Orchish · July 2014

I think the Quakecon panel has done wonders for the game. I've got a VR12 DK and today just started my first alt. I am quite shocked at just how packed the tutorial islands and Daggerfall is right now on EU server. I haven't seen it this packed since beta. Ofcourse the Steam sale has probably bought in a ton of new players, but mostly those that i play ESO with are all excited by what we saw and heard at Quakecon.

Ralathar44 · July 2014

plamillusionub17_ESO wrote: »

If you want your arguments to stand on their own merits, then why the resume of past predictions? They add no weight to your arguments, tbh they make it hard (er) to take what you say seriously.

Be that as it may, it is what has happened. I don't aim to be the most convincing, just to say what I believe and be truthful about the past. You can get people to do just about anything you want if you are properly socially skilled and have no morals, but it's really not worth it.

Ralathar44 · July 2014

Orchish wrote: »

I think the Quakecon panel has done wonders for the game. I've got a VR12 DK and today just started my first alt. I am quite shocked at just how packed the tutorial islands and Daggerfall is right now on EU server. I haven't seen it this packed since beta. Ofcourse the Steam sale has probably bought in a ton of new players, but mostly those that i play ESO with are all excited by what we saw and heard at Quakecon.

They gave away at least 3,000 free copies of the game at Quakecon lol. That's why. A friend of mine got awarded an in game pet as well as a free copy, a pig IIRC.

It's also currently on sale on Steam for $30 at 50% off, $50 for Imperial edition. As well they are doing yet another promotion where if you buy Imperial edition you also get Whiterun Wolfhound pet, offer expires July 21st.

Gedalya · July 2014

Thank you for your input.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · July 2014

Ralathar44 wrote: »

I'm going to say right now, with a sad heart and no malice, that I predict the death of ESO. By death I mean significant decline of course, not actual servers shutting down. I've watched a great many people do this and laughed. I would have never believed I'd ever be the one prophesying doom for a game. But here I am lol. They just don't get some of the fundamentals of MMORPG's That's why they were able to do some great things with the game, but it is also why they had so many bad things and are not trying to finish killing it.

This is not based off of my personal feelings. I like this game and alot of the things it has done. ALOT. I enjoy it. I'm semi-burned out on it partially due to some of it's failings but that's not why this is here. This is here based on my understandings of MMORPG's and their mechanics that I have learned over the course of 15 years of playing and dissecting MMORPG's starting with Dark Age of Camelot and including many many others.

I watched the quake con presentation and some of the new changes are going to kill the game. But I don't expect you to really believe me, half of you are so committed to the game that you wouldn't believe me if it was on fire with you in the middle of it. But for the other half of you I'll try to explain why I think this.

Believe me or not, that is your choice. All I ask is that you stop and really think about each of these points and what they mean for the game. For you, for your friends, for your guild mates. AFTER the shiny wears off of em.

Now the really controversial part, where your initial reaction will be that these are all good things:

1. Grouping updates.

Yes, they did mention this in their presentation. However they said it would be fixed over the course of a few updates. That could be as late as early 2015 to fully fix it (if it's rolled out incrementally).

This should be their #1 priority in the game right now. It's the biggest problem that is costing the game population and it needs to be fixed now, within 1-2 months. There are alot of quests and code is hard, I understand that, people that cannot team with their friends ultimately don't care.

2. Justice System:

I actually think overall that this is really nice overall. However I think there is about a 1 in 3 chance that something significantly bad is going to happen because of the justice system. I'm not sure if it'll be griefing or an oversight that negatively effects the economy, but after their presentation I was left with a heavy feeling that there will be a significant loophole that will cause alot of problems.

That being said, this is only a chance and it could be minor, it's not near as big of a worry as the other points.

3. Stamina Builds:

Yes they are looking into them, however even if they implement the changes they mentioned without issues or bugs in the current state of the game stamina builds will still be easily inferior to magicka builds.

At least it'll be better but there are a good amount of people whose patience really is running out. I like my stamina builds, they are my favorite builds honestly, it still bothers me that I cannot build viably without magicka abilities and that won't change so long as most non-weapon skill lines are magicka based. Because they have all the utility they we need AND they use a separate resource pool.

Oh, and now we have spell crafting to make stamina builds even LESS competitive.

4. Spell Crafting:

PVE and PVP balance completely destroyed. Simple as that. PVE balance is already bad , PVP balance is still completely broken. This addition would be enough to easily break a balanced game, this one isn't even close to balanced.

PVE will still be playable and fun, don't get me wrong, but the balance is going to be even worse borked than it currently is.

5. Plans to implement a battleground.

This will kill Cyrodil populations. They are aware of that, they say they will find away to implement it where that will not happen. This is simply not possible. If you implement alternative PVP and people play it, you will lower Cyrodil populations. The better and more rewarding that alternative PVP is, the more people will leave Cyrodil. Especially because it will be instant action and balanced vs having to find it and possibly being outnumbered.

There is literally no way to implement alternative PVP without lowering the open world population, it's as simple as that.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all bad. Facial animation, new armor sets, dungeon scaling, veteran rank improvements, champion levels, improved character customization and specialization, combat responsiveness, werewolf buffs, solo being included in end game, weapon swapping.

These are all good things. But the points listed are major things that will break an already half broken game.

P.S. In case I actually get moderated for presenting my opinion supported by points that DO at least have SOME merit, I have copied this thread and saved it in a word file and will spread it in sites beyond just this forum and reddit. But I'd like to keep it very focused and exercise my free speech without undue censorship if at all possible. Regardless of whether you consider me right or wrong.

LOL, ya, cuz the recent HUGE influx of players totally points towards doom. kk, bye now. Can I haz ur stuff?

coryevans_3b14_ESO · July 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Troll posting with a threat to spread the negative opinion far and wide on the internet tacked on at the end. Yeah. Whatever. I might have thought more about what you said til you tacked on that threatening PS at the end. You just sound like someone with an axe to grind now.

I agree. I have a very hard time taking how seriously the OP takes themselves seriously. I almost suspect that this thread was a joke and not meant to be taken seriously.

More doom-saying mountains out of molehills on the ZOS forums. O.o

I haven't even had my coffee yet.

LOL OP cracked me up actually. He says something inflamatory, whether he believes it is or not, and then says "free speach". No such thing as free speach on the forums bud. Also, you spreading your b.s. across the internet (OP) doesn't make it true.

Ralathar44 · July 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

LOL, ya, cuz the recent HUGE influx of players totally points towards doom. kk, bye now. Can I haz ur stuff?

They gave away 3,000 free copies lol.

Erock25 · July 2014

I'm loving the 33 lols vs 1 insightful on the OP. Good job forums.

Ralathar44 · July 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm loving the 33 lols vs 1 insightful on the OP. Good job forums.

I just tried to lol my own post, wouldn't let me

.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · July 2014

IM super excited about the coming changes good work zos

Paske · July 2014

Every MMO I have played still exists and was doomed from launch date ...

So - yeh.

Xexpo · July 2014

Mr. Ralathar, what you've just posted is one of the most insanely pointless things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, opinionated babbling were you even close to anything that could be considered an actual fact. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

moxiesauce · July 2014

I skipped over a bunch of comments to this, so sorry if I repeat.

#1 grouping, I get it's an Elder scrolls game, questing is what it's about, but 80% of people that hit Craglorn just grind and don't quest. For the most part you can still quest with friends and it's a tedious process to fix all that. It's fine that it's coming over time
#2 justice system, if any exploits are found with this they will be fixed. ZOS has already proven, to me at least, that they recognize issues and try to resolve them as quick as possible.
#3 The main problem with stam builds is weak dmg and sustain, easy fix. Not to mention there's a good chance FG or DBH will be stam tree's.
#4 Spell crafting, You obviously missed the part where they are adding a spell that trades magic for stamina, and I'm just assuming they will also be adding conjured weapons+ other's unannounced that will benefit stamina builds.
#5 their "battleground" is actually just an arena, So far hold's 0 rewards. With the implementation of Imperial City which gives great incentive to PvP I hardly doubt it will be Cyrodiil breaking, especially if it's got a level requirement. Update 3 will reduce the number of campaigns making it more competition on every server, and basically removing the exploit of Emperor trading. Arena isn't even going to be in for sure, they have just received good feed back on it and people want it.

Basically there was a simple counter argument to everything you was worried about. I have full faith everything they announced will be done, and done right. It needs to be for console to really be a hit. It's not like their treading in new water or anything. They pretty much have guidelines they can follow ranging from previous TES games and other MMO's.