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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901

Do you really want arena PvP?

  • Imperator_Clydus
    Imperator_Clydus
    ✭✭✭✭
    No.
    Gravord wrote: »
    So Clydus, entire topic with your graphomaniac posts against arenas and 40% voters still want it implement in game.

    First, most ppl leave game not because of exploits itself, they always exist. Main reason is absolute lack of any reaction time from ZOS to fix those exploits and punish exploiters. Previous 3 months campaign was toped by Bat Swarm exploiters who most likely hold Emperor titles in every campaign for most of the time. This one is oil top.

    And about oil, you talk how to beat oil but you are totally wrong. "Disrupt" person on oil, good one, but you think organized oil spots dont have own kd/roots/silence/snare spam hitting everyone coming nearby? And why players should be forced to go somewhere else just because group of ppl decided exploit oil on flat ground in that particular spot? Is it player vs player or oil vs oil now? From EU Auriels Bow experience i can say we have very strong Oildmerii Spaminion, 10/10 top leaderboard are guys who exploit oil 99% time online. And same as before Bat Swarm same now with oil/meatbag catapult ZOS is doing nothing, not even responding they recognize issue, Not to mention outstanding fps drop they give us last week.

    So if ZOS is so slow to make adjustments to resolve AvA, why do you think they'd be any different with a traditional arena? OP builds and FOTM specs will be just as rampant, likely worse. People will only become more frustrated and become disinterested in ESO as arenas will be more in your face and show how utterly broken some classes and skills are.

    Your main issue with AvA right now seems to be siege weapons and how they are used. That would lead me to believe your hope then is that siege weapons would be entirely absent from arenas, which may or may not happen. If you actually agree ZOS needs to be more proactive in resolving problems with AvA, you should support them fixing the current system before they add something entirely different that they would screw up.

    Why would you want them adding an entirely new PvP experience when they haven't given any confidence to the player base that they can competently run a PvP game at all?
    The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai
  • Gravord
    Gravord
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    Slow to make adustements its solid understatement. They allow ppl stuck on 4fps Cyrodiil for 1 week now and from american servers we already know tonight patch wont fix it either. Every reasonable dev team would rollback such broken "patch" instantly and in peace fix it on PTS server and after that bring it back to live servers. But seems "reasonable" is not the right word to describe current ZOS actions.

    And most issues from AvA wont exist in arena combat. No npc's hitting x5 harder than players, no siege weapon/oils. And smaller scale combat will allow to reveal any op/broken abilities faster than AvA so we can hope for faster dev reaction to fix them (assuming we still believe in dev team doing their job).
    For amount of money they charging us we can expect to add arenas and fix AvA in same time. Sad fact they are not meeting that requirement made already huge playerbase loss to ESO.
    Edited by Gravord on July 1, 2014 12:26AM
  • Nivzruo_ESO
    Nivzruo_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    While this poll might not deliver any metrics for a direct projection of how many people might really be interested in arenas, we've still seen an over proportional leave of PvPers in this game. It's obvious just by looking at campaign numbers.

    Therefore it seems a rather safe assumption, that the sample voting here, does not even draw from the target group, as most of them are gone or may not have touched the game yet.

    Under this premise, a third voting for arenas, is probably way less than the true demand for them. So the question is, can they draw players (back) in more easily and better in other ways.

    This isn't logical.

    For one, I can tell you many in my guild who currently aren't playing and aren't subscribed have voted in this thread. You do not need to be a subscriber or even an active player in ESO to participate in a forum poll.

    You should also be asking the question of why many PvPers have left the game. From the ones I've personally talked to, they left because ZOS is failing to fix and resolve the many issues with AvA. It has absolutely nothing to do with wanting an arena.

    For those who actually knew what they were buying, they did not purchase this game only to be disappointed there were no arenas. People came here to play AvA, and ZOS has done a terrible job of providing a quality experience. These players are more likely to come back when AvA is working rather than ZOS disregarding it and adding in arenas.

    I left because no small scale pvp.. be it ranked arena or WZs we need some instanced small scale pvp, trying to run a small 5 man team around is fun for about 5 mins until the blob runs u over.
    Nelgyntc- V14 NB
  • Imperator_Clydus
    Imperator_Clydus
    ✭✭✭✭
    No.
    I left because no small scale pvp.. be it ranked arena or WZs we need some instanced small scale pvp, trying to run a small 5 man team around is fun for about 5 mins until the blob runs u over.

    You may have left because there is a "lack" of small scale PvP, but you do not represent everyone who left. Half of my guild stopped playing the game and it had little to do with a lack of small scale PvP. They left because ZOS has either been unwilling or too incompetent to realize AvA is easily abused and exploited and they aren't fixing it.

    If ZOS was to finally realize their folly and fix AvA so that it is amazing as it was in beta, then many would likely return. As I have stated many times, a lot of players came to this game because of AvA. Many have left because AvA is a mess and ZOS has shown little interest in addressing its problems in a timely manner.

    If anyone left because of a lack of small scale PvP, then they either didn't try very hard to find smaller encounters in Cyrodiil, or were expecting PvP features that never existed. ZOS knows exactly what kind of PvP audience they were catering to. It would be foolish of them to forsake that audience to try and reel in another one that was mostly never interested in the game.

    You do not try to repaint a house, build an entire new addition to the house, and try to sell it realizing the foundation for the original house is cracked and the house could fall down at any time. You fix that foundation, make sure the house is stable and supported, and then you consider additions and such at a later time.
    The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai
  • Spottswoode
    Spottswoode
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    I'm going to chime in here and say we can have our cake and eat it too in this case. There is little to no reason that arena style pvp and the open war cannot coexist. Moreover, you could add the Emperor Bonus to the factions in arena pvp to incentivize participation in the war. Arguing that one detracts from the other automatically procludes the possibility that they can coexist.
    Arena pvp would actually be easy to balance. All it would require is for players to wear Arena gear, as in Oblivion. With a standardized uniform set, that levels with the player, there really isn't any reason that the gameplay can't be balanced. You could even go so far as to require players to register a role prior to matches. The matches could compete for honor points and rank in the Arena (Grandchampion(s) being the top rank in the Arena) and you could even make it a faction for faction benefits. You could even have PVE arena matches (to balance it out) for money and exp.
    Honestly, I'd like something in pvp other than getting ganked by any wandering group in my faction's territory.
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  • Blooddancer
    Blooddancer
    ✭✭✭
    Yes.
    There should be a third option for "I'm not pushed" I'm saying yes cos it's something many people seem to want and can serve as a training ground for pvp.

    It's well down the priority list though, some more critical stuff to fix.
  • Orchish
    Orchish
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    Watching the quakecon stream, it seems the two devs commentating are really in favour of adding small scale PvP.

    I voted no simply because i don't want it to take away from Cyrodiil. I would rather the PvP devs focus on improving and adding to Cyrodiil rather than adding other modes of PvP right now.
  • eMTeeR
    eMTeeR
    Soul Shriven
    Yes.
    I would rly like arenas or any kind of dueling in this game it would be awsom to improve your pvp skills that way and not by camping players to get actual fight.
  • Columba
    Columba
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    No. Catering to an elite few sends games down the dinky.
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    Columba wrote: »
    No. Catering to an elite few sends games down the dinky.

    who said it was for elites?

    doesnt take elites to participate in an arena, and what do you have against "elite" players anyway?
  • SBR_QuorTek
    SBR_QuorTek
    ✭✭✭
    No.
    I here by declare this poll for invalid lol... it is necro posting by now :p
  • Lowbei
    Lowbei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    arenas are coming anyway, whether you like it or not
  • Imperator_Clydus
    Imperator_Clydus
    ✭✭✭✭
    No.
    I'm going to chime in here and say we can have our cake and eat it too in this case. There is little to no reason that arena style pvp and the open war cannot coexist. Moreover, you could add the Emperor Bonus to the factions in arena pvp to incentivize participation in the war. Arguing that one detracts from the other automatically procludes the possibility that they can coexist.
    Arena pvp would actually be easy to balance. All it would require is for players to wear Arena gear, as in Oblivion. With a standardized uniform set, that levels with the player, there really isn't any reason that the gameplay can't be balanced. You could even go so far as to require players to register a role prior to matches. The matches could compete for honor points and rank in the Arena (Grandchampion(s) being the top rank in the Arena) and you could even make it a faction for faction benefits. You could even have PVE arena matches (to balance it out) for money and exp.
    Honestly, I'd like something in pvp other than getting ganked by any wandering group in my faction's territory.

    You should read the OP and click on my link to my vision of how the arena could work. This is one of the ideas to resolve the issue of balancing, but also building the arena into Cyrodiil rather than making it an independent segment would be crucial to further building the PvP experience.
    The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai
  • frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    No.
    No. Arena PvP is too much of a distraction from AvA.

    The only way it could be implemented is by being an Imperial city thing to compete against your faction members.

    You should need to win AvA, make your way in and through the sewers and clear out the enemies in the arena district before being allowed to use the arena.
  • Crowzer
    Crowzer
    ✭✭✭
    No.
    Lowbei wrote: »
    arenas are coming anyway, whether you like it or not

    That's mean they do not listen players.
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    I want arenas merely because while Cyrodiil is my preferred way of PvP, it's hardly a controlled environment where one can measure each other in combat, like an arena.

    I hope that any arena will allow live spectators.
  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    I want arenas merely because while Cyrodiil is my preferred way of PvP, it's hardly a controlled environment where one can measure each other in combat, like an arena.

    I hope that any arena will allow live spectators.
    That would be really cool, have Arena like a stadium type thing where not only would there be standard NPC's as an "audience" but players could go in and watch too (without being able to help or hinder the event). They could even add gambling to the mix, betting on which team would be victorious. TES games and ESO already have these types of scripted events in the games why not give it an added flair by having player based Arenas with these mechanics too.
  • woodlandwoodsb14_ESO
    No.
    A million times: No.

    I've witnessed what it can do to games. PvP is enough of a mess without it.
  • frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    No.
    DeLindsay wrote: »
    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    I want arenas merely because while Cyrodiil is my preferred way of PvP, it's hardly a controlled environment where one can measure each other in combat, like an arena.

    I hope that any arena will allow live spectators.
    That would be really cool, have Arena like a stadium type thing where not only would there be standard NPC's as an "audience" but players could go in and watch too (without being able to help or hinder the event). They could even add gambling to the mix, betting on which team would be victorious. TES games and ESO already have these types of scripted events in the games why not give it an added flair by having player based Arenas with these mechanics too.

    The best, and perhaps only way, to implement this properly would be as part of the arena district in the Imperial City.
    This way, for players that want to compete in the arena, they would have to first help out in AvA.

    It would make both PvE and sPvP players care about the AvA, fight for it, and then ,as a balancing measure, disapear in the Impreial city for other faction to gain a pop advantage.

    As an added bonus feature: When the district gets assaulted by an enemy faction, gladiators and spectators need to join forces to repel the enemies.
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
    deepseamk20b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    Crowzer wrote: »
    Lowbei wrote: »
    arenas are coming anyway, whether you like it or not

    That's mean they do not listen players.

    Apparently they just don't listen to you lol. Plenty of people want it. I say the more PvP options the better, but there needs to be things in place to prevent abuse of the system. If they were smart they would see the concerns of all the people who say no, and make the appropriate changes that everyone can live with.
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • Skafsgaard
    Skafsgaard
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    Lag free pvp with no trains guarenteed - you kiddin! Who wouldn't like that?!
    Edited by Skafsgaard on August 20, 2014 2:01AM
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.

    Yes, I am ready...


    Source:
    http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war
  • Nivzruo_ESO
    Nivzruo_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    Skafsgaard wrote: »
    Lag free pvp with no trains guarenteed - you kiddin! Who wouldn't like that?!

    Nailed it. Assuming there is a rating system and good match making arena is the best way to test your skill.
    Nelgyntc- V14 NB
  • Soris
    Soris
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    I cant wait for it. But I wish it was like old school arena type in each city, people can just go inside and duel. Or else, simply putting a duel option into the interact button(F). But anyways, better than nothing :p
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • Tintinabula
    Tintinabula
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    I have perfected the art of being bad and therefore do not like the idea of allowing the world in on my super secrets of being terrubul in an awesome kind of way.
  • Skafsgaard
    Skafsgaard
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    I have perfected the art of being bad and therefore do not like the idea of allowing the world in on my super secrets of being terrubul in an awesome kind of way.


    Well, it's like this. Why cant we have both, if they get connected in a meaningful way? You must understand that some people also want to know exactly where they stand in a more controlled environment?

    Nothing as crappy as finding a 1v1 opportunity in cyro and you bash at each other for some mins only to have you explode by some random hidden guy who joins in. Well, I know this is the case in large scale pvp, you fight for the bigger picture, but why not have both? I mean it isn't like they'll be mutually exclusive. It's almost like saying there can't be pve and pvp at the same time - i dont buy it.

    As I see the more options the better, for everyone.
    Edited by Skafsgaard on August 20, 2014 9:32PM
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.

    Yes, I am ready...


    Source:
    http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war
  • frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    No.
    As you said. They need to be meaningfuly connected.
    A reward for AvA victory seems like a great deal.

    Any other way would be sort of mutualy exclusive.

    Either way, arenas are just a subset of PvP, a controled environment to learn how to play. An alliance owning the imperial city would have better training.
    Once out of the arenas, those players would know how to play their characters a bit more and will be able to learn all the skills to survive and fight well in actual "war".

    This is an advantage that would make me care about owning the imoerial city.
    I'm someone who won't use arenas much, but if our zerg can get better than theirs, it's worth fighting for.
    Everyone wins in this context.
  • Antirob
    Antirob
    ✭✭✭
    Yes.
    No, not until we have a lot more fixes for cyro. Also, I don't want people taken away from cyro, at least not all the time. I wouldn't be against 'arena tournaments' twice a week or something though

    thats actually a really good idea
    Vehemence
    Antirob - Dragonknight
  • Jack-0
    Jack-0
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    ESO is not WoW. I love this fact. I love large scale pvp with all the mindless serving and small groups of really good players that come with it. We do not need arenas, we need them to build on an already awesome pvp set up by adding new objectives and perhaps even a second campaign map. We deffo don't need arena, that, as the op said, is just fotm ***.
  • Skafsgaard
    Skafsgaard
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes.
    Jack-0 wrote: »
    ESO is not WoW. I love this fact. I love large scale pvp with all the mindless serving and small groups of really good players that come with it. We do not need arenas, we need them to build on an already awesome pvp set up by adding new objectives and perhaps even a second campaign map. We deffo don't need arena, that, as the op said, is just fotm ***.

    Arenas has nothing to do with WoW. I like PvP. All kinds. Small scale, large scale, AvA and 1v1. Why we cannot have options beats me, see my previous replies.

    Ppl who go 'this is not wow, no fotm tyvm!' I think havent got a clue and just likes to hide in a zerg - which is fine - but others want some options and prefer to mix up their playstyle - if not a game gets boring, in fact, I think its simple as that. And btw, fotm will always exist, arenas or not.
    Edited by Skafsgaard on August 21, 2014 11:54AM
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.

    Yes, I am ready...


    Source:
    http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war
  • frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    frosth.darkomenb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    No.
    Skafsgaard wrote: »
    Jack-0 wrote: »
    ESO is not WoW. I love this fact. I love large scale pvp with all the mindless serving and small groups of really good players that come with it. We do not need arenas, we need them to build on an already awesome pvp set up by adding new objectives and perhaps even a second campaign map. We deffo don't need arena, that, as the op said, is just fotm ***.

    Arenas has nothing to do with WoW. I like PvP. All kinds. Small scale, large scale, AvA and 1v1. Why we cannot have options beats me, see my previous replies.

    Sometimes, having options can be problematic as not every option gets the same attention.
    In the case of arenas, it could mean severely harming Cyrodiil.
    It doesn't mean Cyrodiil is bad, or that arenas are better, just that they are easier and have a lower skill ceiling which makes it popular for many players, yet not preferable. It would mean that they are missing out on the potential for growth a more open world gameplay would give them.

    This is why a good solution to implementing arenas would be as a district of the imperial city.
    It gives players a reason to fight AvA, an occasion to grow as a player and the option to play in an arena context.
    Everyone wins.
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