New night's silence set = NB's form of BE

aco5712 · July 2014

Firstly i want to say i am a NB, that is my main character and i do plan to take full advantage of this new set however i dont want to see cloak get nerfed the way bolt escape did or for me to waste all my mats on this set to have it changed to something useless.

The new set will give 60% movement speed in stealth when you got 5 pieces. Now you couple that with concealed weapon (25%) and the vampire passive (remove speed penalty in stealth) and what do you have? Insane speed.

I run conc. wep and vampire passive and as it stands i can move in a sprint in stealth (im sure most of you know about this). When i have someone cast rapid maneuvers, i run as fast as horses (obviously depends on the horse but i have caught people like this). Rapid is only a 20% buff (30% is its morphed), so i can only imagine what another 30-40% speed will do. You can also get the mundus which gives you movement speed for even more. All in all you can get about 95% speed (judging that the mundus is 10% speed) in stealth without rapid maneuvers .

Now the real problem starts when you catch someone with this insane speed. If the fight doesnt go your way and they arent running magelight / detect pots, 1 cloak duration with this speed will probably double the distance if not more of a single bolt escape and your totally invisible. Cloak can be cast up to like 6 times at least with full magicka + 1 pot if you dont have light armour.

This new nights silence set is cool in theory but i think it needs a nerf before it even goes live. A 25/30% speed boost imo is more then enough. It lets non NBs hit our speeds but still lets NBs dominate stealth movement.

So yeh, i dont want them to nerf cloak in a couple weeks when every NB is flying across maps.

Thank you for reading, hopefully ZOS reads this.

forthewinn2 · July 2014

This is clearly the substitute for fixing shadow cloak and all other broken nightblade skills.
Zenimax would like to remind you that shadow cloak is extremely unreliable and everything is working as intended.

dsalter · July 2014

or yaknow, make sneak movement cap at 50%?
i'd love this set to become active as i run a DW sorc stealthy and i have no form of stealth initiation in PvP

kkravaritieb17_ESO · July 2014

I agree 60% speed is way too much. A logical number would be around 20-25%. I hope they dont go through with it in 1.3.

xaraan · July 2014

IMO: They should just max out the increase, that way you can't stack it with various things to get it so high, but can still take advantage of it if you aren't a NB or vampire to compete with those types of characters.

aco5712 · July 2014

forthewinn2 wrote: »

This is clearly the substitute for fixing shadow cloak and all other broken nightblade skills.
Zenimax would like to remind you that shadow cloak is extremely unreliable and everything is working as intended.

I dont think this has anything to do with fixing broken NB skills, i just think its more trying to give variety. I think the reason your cloak doesnt work is because its either morphed to shadowy disguise and that doesnt remove dots and that pops you out or they use magelight/detect pots. I use dark cloak myself and whenever its someone running nothing, then i perfect stealth for like 3 secs easy.

Zubba · July 2014

I am not sure this set bonus adds on top of the vamp passive skill.

aco5712 · July 2014

Zubba wrote: »

I am not sure this set bonus adds on top of the vamp passive skill.

Conc. wep stacks on it so this would aswell

aco5712 · July 2014

xaraan wrote: »

IMO: They should just max out the increase, that way you can't stack it with various things to get it so high, but can still take advantage of it if you aren't a NB or vampire to compete with those types of characters.

I dont think its right to take away the NBs improved stealth speed over other classes. NBs are "supposed" (using this very loosely) to be the best stealth class because thats their whole character design.

forthewinn2 · July 2014

@aco5712 Actually I use Dark cloak and ironically enough the dot that dark cloak is supposed to be removing is often enough to break me out of dark cloak

aco5712 · July 2014

@forthewinn2 thats weird, i never have issues with dark cloak removing things.

xaraan · July 2014

aco5712 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

IMO: They should just max out the increase, that way you can't stack it with various things to get it so high, but can still take advantage of it if you aren't a NB or vampire to compete with those types of characters.

I dont think its right to take away the NBs improved stealth speed over other classes. NBs are "supposed" (using this very loosely) to be the best stealth class because thats their whole character design.

As a NB since day one, I don't think stealth is the end-all, be-all of the class. We have an invis at will power that truly solves the designed for stealth theory (when it gets working right) and stamina regen bonus always on now, which helps sneaking in the long run even without other bonuses, so you don't have to stack super speed movement on top of it. (And really, if you are a non vamp NB, you are already out 'stealth-speeded' by any other class that is a vamp). And if another class wants to give up a five piece set bonus to run NS set just to sneak as fast as a NB or vampire, then that's a pretty good trade-off. I think a set like this should be an equalizer, not something you just stack to build something so OP it gets nerfed badly later.

I don't see how it makes sense that anyone can sneak faster than walking speed anyway myself.

Guppet · July 2014

The only thing that should be able to stack is concealed weapon. Don't let it stack with vamp, then there is no problem at all.

AreoHotah · July 2014

We are not all vampires. All i have is that 60%.

avijarelb16_ESO · July 2014

I'm not a vampire and realy like the 60% of Night Silence.
I hope now it is possible to play a nightblade, without being vampire.
It is ok for me, if it don't stack with vampire but please, don't remove this option.

Night Silence option:
1. Remove the penality while sneaking
2. Increase speed to total amount of 60%
3. Increase speed while sneaking by 60%, don't work with vampire.
4. Increase speed while sneaking by 60% of the basic speed.

*Sry i now my english is not very well.

aco5712 · July 2014

avijarelb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a vampire and realy like the 60% of Night Silence.
I hope now it is possible to play a nightblade, without being vampire.
It is ok for me, if it don't stack with vampire but please, don't remove this option.

Night Silence option:
1. Remove the penality while sneaking
2. Increase speed to total amount of 60%
3. Increase speed while sneaking by 60%, don't work with vampire.
4. Increase speed while sneaking by 60% of the basic speed.

*Sry i now my english is not very well.

I think that it should just remove the sneak penalty instead of speed increase. They have a light armour set that does that, so they can easily implement it for this. Just dont want cloak to get nerfed to something stupid because people start crying how NB has a OP escape move.

FunkyBudda · July 2014

aco5712 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

IMO: They should just max out the increase, that way you can't stack it with various things to get it so high, but can still take advantage of it if you aren't a NB or vampire to compete with those types of characters.

I dont think its right to take away the NBs improved stealth speed over other classes. NBs are "supposed" (using this very loosely) to be the best stealth class because thats their whole character design.

and Sorcs are "supposed" to "escape" from melee classes, so why nerf BE? Since BE got nerfed, so shall this issue stated by OP. Nerf on ZoS, nerf on.

Maulkin · July 2014

AreoHotah wrote: »

We are not all vampires. All i have is that 60%.

I never understood that argument.

It's like saying "not all Sorcs wear light armour and BE everywhere" or "not all DKs are Infinitanks".

You might not be, but someone else will be and they will become a problem for everyone else. The more people will notice the insane advantage, the more people will convert. Like the days when 0 cost vamp ultie meant that 80% of the Cyro population became vamps and bites were selling 30k each.Not because people wanted to be vamps from the start, but because of the insane advantage.

Your argument is invalid. The fact is, as long as there are combinations that give huge advantage, lots of people will use it to ruin it for everyone else and whether you personally (or the majority) take advantage or not, does not factor into it.

Zubba · July 2014

aco5712 wrote: »

Zubba wrote: »

I am not sure this set bonus adds on top of the vamp passive skill.

Conc. wep stacks on it so this would aswell

The other sneak speed set that was available around lvl 40 did not stack with vamp skill. (forgot its name)

pitdemon_ESO · July 2014

If they need to put a cap on stealth speed so be it, but I like the idea of this set.

I play a vamp NB in PvP, but other people should be able to play as stealthers without rerolling or becoming diseased.

aco5712 · July 2014

@Zubba
As far as i know there is no other set that gives stealth speed. Only the light armour set which removes the stealth penalty ie. what vamp passive does. It wouldnt stack because its doing the same thing.

Jaxom · July 2014

Has anyone tried to do this on the PTS yet? Do all 3 stack?

aco5712 · July 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

Has anyone tried to do this on the PTS yet? Do all 3 stack?

If anyone can get this done, this would help alot

reften · July 2014

Where is this info coming from?

DeLindsay · July 2014

Zubba wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Zubba wrote: »

I am not sure this set bonus adds on top of the vamp passive skill.

Conc. wep stacks on it so this would aswell

The other sneak speed set that was available around lvl 40 did not stack with vamp skill. (forgot its name)

That would be Shadow Dancer and unless someone here has personally tested it on PTS, my money is on that it DOESN'T stack with either Dark Stalker (Vampire passive) or Shadow Dancer set (not that it could since you can't wear 10 items without Jewelry). Concealed Weapon is at current the ONLY way to get a Sneaking speed that is faster than normal running (not sprinting, there's a difference) outside of using Maneuvers and/or Speed pots.

Don't get me wrong, as NB is my main I'm all for having this set work with Dark Stalker AND Concealed Weapon AND Maneuvers AND Speed pots but I figure ZoS won't let us have that much fun. Besides can you imagine all the "NB's are OP now with Night's Silence" threads that would spam the forums the day of the 1.3 patch lol.

Lorkhan · July 2014

any class can use this set. any class can be a vampire.
when nb use shadow cloak they become invisible, not stealth. the speed while invisible is not the same as the speed while stealth. so this set apllies to stealth, not invisible. you wont get this speed bonus when use shadowcloak

Awdwyn · July 2014

fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »

any class can use this set. any class can be a vampire.
when nb use shadow cloak they become invisible, not stealth. the speed while invisible is not the same as the speed while stealth. so this set apllies to stealth, not invisible. you wont get this speed bonus when use shadowcloak

I have noticed this. I'm a nightblade vamp with concealed weapon and the vamp stealth speed bonus. When I sneak in to start combat my speed is somewhere between a normal walk and sprint. When I get in over my head and need to boogie outta there using cloak, my movement speed is still faster then a normal run, but not as fast as stealthed. I'm guessing without conclusive tests that the vamp bonus applies, but concealed weapon doesn't in that case.

If somebody has tested this and has actual times or anything I'd be interested to hear their results to see if my feels are on the mark.

Also. Having weapons drawn slows down movement speed whether invisible or not. When running away, sheathe your weapons and you can give yourself an edge.

EDIT: mobile typing sucks.

Cody · July 2014

as others have stated not everyone is a vampire(nor does everyone use concealed weapon) I myself use neither of these things, so the 60% sneak speed increase would be welcomed with open arms

Samadhi · July 2014

aco5712 wrote: »

...
The new set will give 60% movement speed in stealth when you got 5 pieces. Now you couple that with concealed weapon (25%) and the vampire passive (remove speed penalty in stealth) and what do you have? Insane speed.
...

This is more of an issue with Vampire than with Nightblade though.

Nightblade doesn't take away stealth move penalty, Vampire does.

Has someone with the PTS actually tested these values to see how they function?
It is top of my list to test when the patch goes live, but if I could find out the answer in advance it would be better.
I'm planning to make my girlfriend a set of Night's Silence for her Templar Vampire.

Personally, I'm kind of under the impression that the set has a wording error on it.
I think that rather than raise sneak speed by 60% it's going to raise sneak speed to 60% meaning it will only give a 10% bonus and will not stack on vampire.
What I am expecting for the set is that with Night's Silence + Concealed Weapon a Nightblade will still be slower than a vampire in sneak.

Awdwyn · July 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

as others have stated not everyone is a vampire(nor does everyone use concealed weapon) I myself use neither of these things, so the 60% sneak speed increase would be welcomed with open arms

Agreed! I became a vampire by accident (bit without realizing it) and once I saw the stealth movement speed passive I kept it because I love the assassin feel. If I could get that feeling without being a vampire, and not resorting to e light armour set (medium is what I wear) I quite likely would.

Samadhi · July 2014

Awdwyn wrote: »

fredthementenrb18_ESO wrote: »

any class can use this set. any class can be a vampire.
when nb use shadow cloak they become invisible, not stealth. the speed while invisible is not the same as the speed while stealth. so this set apllies to stealth, not invisible. you wont get this speed bonus when use shadowcloak

I have noticed this. I'm a nightblade vamp with concealed weapon and the vamp stealth speed bonus. When I sneak in to start combat my speed is somewhere between a normal walk and sprint. When I get in over my head and need to boogie outta there using cloak, my movement speed is still faster then a normal run, but not as fast as stealthed. I'm guessing without conclusive tests that the vamp bonus applies, but concealed weapon doesn't in that case.

If somebody has tested this and has actual times or anything I'd be interested to hear their results to see if my feels are on the mark.

Also. Having weapons drawn slows down movement speed whether invisible or not. When running away, sheathe your weapons and you can give yourself an edge.

EDIT: mobile typing sucks.

I did a whole bunch of testing with movement speeds in sneak yesterday (note, this obviously does not include Night's Silence)

Testing with stop watch and traveling between two points:

Regular walking speed: 26 seconds

Sprint speed (no medium armour equipped) : 20 seconds

Sprint speed (7 pieces medium armour equipped): 15 seconds

Shadow Cloak (repeatedly casting) with no Concealed Weapon bonus: 26 seconds

Shadow Cloak (repeatedly casting) with Concealed Weapon bonus: 21 seconds

Sneak (level 10 vampire) with no Concealed Weapon bonus: 26 seconds

Sneak (level 10 vampire) with Concealed Weapon bonus: 21 seconds

Concealed Weapon + Shadow Cloak works fine for me.

I also went just now and tested sneak speed with weapons out and with weapons sheathed.
Both came up with 21 seconds; weapons have no impact on move speed.

I intend to test Night's Silence with and without vampire (I will cure myself after 1.3 to make the test) once the update goes live. I'll be glad to compare it with these numbers at that time.