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The DK Class Epidemic Crisis unfolding

Fshober28b14_ESO
Fshober28b14_ESO
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No this is not going to be a tear filled cry-tale of how anyone got butt-hurt by any DK's...sorry to disappoint any forum trolls, you will have to get your nom-noms elsewhere.

Warning: For those of you that are the "TL;DR" types...this isn't the post for you...it's mainly for Zenimax as well as those that don't mind a deep read and feel the same/share the same experience...and feels passionately about ESO like I do.

This is an honest and sincere call to Zenimax Studios and Paul Sage and the rest of the team about what you created, and are likely unintentionally enabling with the Dragon Knight Class.

The Preface(let's just get this out of the way):
We understand you stated clearly multiple times that you want to take a very careful and slow and methodical approach to all class changes & balancing on many occasions. It has become a mantra spoken now regularly in every interview, blog, forum post, discussion anywhere when discussing the game.

That said, from an outside persective...For quite some time now, and each day that keeps passing, it has been looking more and more every day like you have been actually creating the very issue you were so set on avoiding.

The Topic at Hand:
DK's have become the choice class to play hands-down, speaking especially for competitive PvP in Cyrodiil in this discussion, versus all other classes. Now yes all the other classes inherently are unique and stand apart from other classes in many respects in their skills/animation...at their cores they are conceptually developed well and fun to play mechanically more or less. Yes, you do technically offer variety with every class, especially by being compared to one another, but thats just superfluous compared to efficacy when actually implemented in combat.

That said, dig a little deeper into how well rounded and effective each class as a whole is another discussion entirely, yet is the opposite side of the same coin. Again, let me reiterate, we know well that you are all continuing to look at all the classes and 'monitor' the data and the feed back, etc.

Getting past all of that above, we are left with one undeniable fact that has been displayed clearly by the player behavior trend in action. No matter how well you designed, continue to monitor, carefully balance & change things over time...you made the DK by far...leaps and bounds more viable than any of the other classes in the game from the start. So much so that people have been re-rolling in mass to DK's because of this.

There is no match in any combination of any class that can outshine a DK in over all effectiveness. Especially when you further consider all the aspects you can customize that the game gives you from glyphs, to gear type, set bonuses, skills/morphs, passives(racials included), cost of resources(this is a big one - compared to other clsses), weapons, etc etc etc...and on and on. At this point most everyone knows those details that make this DK trend one thats more than a mere trend. This core fact about DK's have in effect, made the mass population see all other classes as largely ineffective in PvP(even those like myself that still hold onto our chosen non DK classes)...and that is a SERIOUS PROBLEM.

The community aspect:
I have heard the discussions in various Voips, in group chats, guild chats, Cyrodill chat, zone chats, forums, blogs, reddit etc. It is not a secret...you built a class that just flat out trumps the rest heavily. So much so that people continue to re-roll to it that don't even like the class just because of its raw effectiveness in all areas(and this is not even yet tossing into the pot for consideration being a vampire).

You are to be commended for creating such a beautifully synergistic class that just blows the other 3 classes out of the water. Yet it's so good, so effective, so unbeatable in most witnessed occasions...it take upwards of 15+ people to kill one DK player. Seeing and considering this, who would even bother playing the other 3 classes other than by forced dedication, habit, and historical love of the other class types.

But, when the game is all so incredibly DK heavy, and that number grows daily...you see it all around you every day, all you ever come across anymore are hoards of DK's in Cyrodiil - and it's a completely useless endeavor to even try to enjoy Cyrodiil anymore if you are not a DK. I rarely run across many Sorcers or Night Blades at all, though I know there are some out there...they are hard to find. Then there are Templars...even harder to find the previous two classes. Sure I know they exist and I know people play them...BUT not enough....and all of the above is why and everyone knows it to be true.

Where we are currently left:
For most players, the game has evolved into 'Dragon Knights Online' in the Tamriel world setting... not Elder Scrolls Online where you give the player the true CHOICE...which used to be your mantra. The choice is clear...if you want to play in ESO and in Cyrodiil and pay to enjoy the experince and feel as effective as everyone else...........
it's be a DK or go home.
Edited by Fshober28b14_ESO on July 16, 2014 7:44PM
  • audabon2013
    audabon2013
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    I love a good post thats full of inflammatory remarks and zero evidence.

    so many words but no examples.

    Dk might be strong, but you're waaaay over the top on this with nothing in your post to cite direct examples.

    no proof? No one will take you seriously. Sadly, I read the whole thing. Should've known better.
  • tordr86b16_ESO
    tordr86b16_ESO
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    nice propaganda piece op.
  • Ninnghizhidda
    Ninnghizhidda
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    Maybe there should also be this little comment that is missing up there:

    A DK sporting a Staff and Light Armour. Now, this looks much better.

    Because all the other DK combos are pretty alright but nowhere near super-duper-uber.
  • Nova Sky
    Nova Sky
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    The Kool-Aid is strong in this one.
    "Wheresoever you go, go with all of your heart."
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    I don't do PvP, PvE is my thing. I have taken a Sorcerer, a KB and a DK through most of the leveling zones in AD and DC. The only one I thought was weak, and even abandoned him after a while was the KB. Until I respec'd him (from HA to MA, from 2H to 1H/S and Bow) and moved all the crafting points into Passives). Basically, in PvE, all 3 are equally powerful if I play to their strengths and be aware of their weaknesses.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Kypho
    Kypho
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    I love a good post thats full of inflammatory remarks and zero evidence.

    so many words but no examples.

    Dk might be strong, but you're waaaay over the top on this with nothing in your post to cite direct examples.

    no proof? No one will take you seriously. Sadly, I read the whole thing. Should've known better.

    Want evident or proof? LOL do you play the game? Go in pvp, and see.
    Or you are a DK, and you just try to defend like the bash abusers did. Sad.
  • ExiledKhallisi
    ExiledKhallisi
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    I play the "weakest" class in the game.... and i [snip] on DK's 1v1 in cyrodil with my Templar.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]
    Edited by ZOS_LeroyW on July 16, 2014 8:39PM
    >>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<
    ||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||
    “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
  • Fshober28b14_ESO
    Fshober28b14_ESO
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    I love a good post thats full of inflammatory remarks and zero evidence.

    so many words but no examples.

    Dk might be strong, but you're waaaay over the top on this with nothing in your post to cite direct examples.

    no proof? No one will take you seriously. Sadly, I read the whole thing. Should've known better.

    There are plenty of posts that offer that type of information, if your'e hungry for that type of information, go search the forum posts..plenty of content there. I aimed to offer an extensive perspective from one player that has had this experience, and for anyone else that shares the same experience(s).

    Also, I never refered to 'strength'......I said, and I quote: "over all effectiveness"...are you sure you read the whole post? Doesn't sound like it, unless you didn't comprehend what you read. :)
  • someuser
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    You are to be commended for creating such a beautifully synergistic class that just blows the other 3 classes out of the water. Yet it's so good, so effective, so unbeatable in most witnessed occasions...it take upwards of 15+ people to kill one DK player. Seeing and considering this, who would even bother playing the other 3 classes other than by forced dedication, habit, and historical love of the other class types.

    First off, if EVERYONE is re-rolling a DK and EVERYONE thinks they are so hands down super duper, how come you have witnessed (on many occasions I'm sure) 15 non-DKs (I guess the only 15 players not rolling a DK right) struggling to put just one Dark Knight down? Why wouldn't it be more like 2 NB, 3 Templars, and 5 Sorcs and 5 DKs? Where are all the UbeR dUpEr L33t DKs on your team son???? Maybe yall should just L2P??? Just maybe??
    To make ESO look and feel like a PC MMO check out the following:

    PhinixUI addon-powered interface for ESO
  • audabon2013
    audabon2013
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    Kypho wrote: »
    I love a good post thats full of inflammatory remarks and zero evidence.

    so many words but no examples.

    Dk might be strong, but you're waaaay over the top on this with nothing in your post to cite direct examples.

    no proof? No one will take you seriously. Sadly, I read the whole thing. Should've known better.

    Want evident or proof? LOL do you play the game? Go in pvp, and see.
    Or you are a DK, and you just try to defend like the bash abusers did. Sad.

    Feel free to check my posts. I don't play dk, but I will argue against overnerfing t hem. Especially when people provide no proof. Which you also lack in your post.

    the burden of proof is on you, accusers! Lol. DK innocent until proven guilty.

    edit: case dismissed. Ha
    Edited by audabon2013 on July 16, 2014 8:27PM
  • monkeymystic
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    Everyone knows Templars are currently favored with blazing shield, blazing spear, and puncturing sweep, which ALL procs the 25% passive that deals 200-350+ damage added to the initial ability damage.
    Nothing that the DK has comes even remotely close to this.
    The sorcerer explosive familiar that is bugged and procs twice is the only thing that comes close.


    Templars are critting 1000-1500 damage per target as AoE with blazing shield and the burning light passive proc. That is insane.
    DKs are lucky to do only 1/4 of that damage.


    Templars also currently have the hands down best survival in the game, especially with some + healing bonuses. Templar Self heals will _always_ heal for over 1k a pop.

    This post is nothing but a non DK player's poor attempt to nerf an already overnerfed class even more.
  • Fshober28b14_ESO
    Fshober28b14_ESO
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    nice propaganda piece op.

    I can definitely see how it can come across that way, though I can assure you it is not propaganda. Since a vast majorty of players are hoarding or already have into the DK class...it will be hard to get a sizable amount of empathy at this point....but there lies the rub(or the proof/evidence that some people require in hard numbers and data).
  • monkeymystic
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    I play the "weakest" class in the game.... and i s*** on DK's 1v1 in cyrodil with my Templar.

    Exactly.

    I think the poster just wants to see DKs nerfed even more, when dks already are overnerfed.
    As a player with both templar and DK, I can hands down say that DKs needs more buffs that templars atm.

    Templars can literally become OP unkillable machines with many different builds atm.
    Templars got range spells as well, which dks dont.
    Edited by monkeymystic on July 16, 2014 8:29PM
  • Fshober28b14_ESO
    Fshober28b14_ESO
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    Maybe there should also be this little comment that is missing up there:

    A DK sporting a Staff and Light Armour. Now, this looks much better.

    Because all the other DK combos are pretty alright but nowhere near super-duper-uber.
    yeah
  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    Everyone knows Templars are currently favored with blazing shield, blazing spear, and puncturing sweep, which ALL procs the 25% passive that deals 200-350+ damage added to the initial ability damage.
    Nothing that the DK has comes even remotely close to this.
    The sorcerer explosive familiar that is bugged and procs twice is the only thing that comes close.


    Templars are critting 1000-1500 damage per target as AoE with blazing shield and the burning light passive proc. That is insane.
    DKs are lucky to do only 1/4 of that damage.


    Templars also currently have the hands down best survival in the game, especially with some + healing bonuses. Templar Self heals will _always_ heal for over 1k a pop.

    This post is nothing but a non DK player's poor attempt to nerf an already overnerfed class even more.

    I do not agree with the OP but you are seriously overstating templers performance. Hate to burst your bubble but templers are still the lowest DPS class in the game AND the most magica limited. There is a reason trails are lucky to see one templer and serious trails never take more than one. While I agree templer heals heal for alot they are painfully slow and incredibly magica inefficient making staff healing more preferable in many cases.
  • Fshober28b14_ESO
    Fshober28b14_ESO
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    Kypho wrote: »
    I love a good post thats full of inflammatory remarks and zero evidence.

    so many words but no examples.

    Dk might be strong, but you're waaaay over the top on this with nothing in your post to cite direct examples.

    no proof? No one will take you seriously. Sadly, I read the whole thing. Should've known better.

    Want evident or proof? LOL do you play the game? Go in pvp, and see.
    Or you are a DK, and you just try to defend like the bash abusers did. Sad.

    Lol ...I completely expect the usual player base created 'in-defense of DK act' to be played in this post....we know the routine. On that note, I am not asking fo the DK class to be nerfed or anything along those lines.

    But, on that note for the person you responded to, the proof is there in Cyrodiil as well as in PvE. If the DK's as we now know them to be as they are being played, and more so the particular staff weapon/ light armor combo choices that make this class have such an intense desirability with superior effectiveness and greater viability than other classes that it is a growing epidemic...then nodoby would be flocking to it.
    Edited by Fshober28b14_ESO on July 16, 2014 8:37PM
  • Vis
    Vis
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    A lot of DK fan boys will try to defend their class, but let's face it guys ... DKs outnumber any other class and are growing in number every week.
    v14 Sorc Vae Exillis
    v14 DK Costs
    v14 NB 'Vis
    v14 Temp Fiat Lux

  • starlizard70ub17_ESO
    starlizard70ub17_ESO
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    And here's the newly created thread that says mages are OP and need to be nerfed. OK, which is it, Sorcs or DKs that need the heaviest nerfing. Every class is OP if you don't know how to play against it.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/120284/ok-sorcs-enough#latest
    "We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."
  • someuser
    someuser
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    And here's the newly created thread that says mages are OP and need to be nerfed. OK, which is it, Sorcs or DKs that need the heaviest nerfing. Every class is OP if you don't know how to play against it.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/120284/ok-sorcs-enough#latest

    QFT
    To make ESO look and feel like a PC MMO check out the following:

    PhinixUI addon-powered interface for ESO
  • Akula
    Akula
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    Wow, what a really bad "argument".
  • siledre
    siledre
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    I do a lot better with my NB in PvE and PvP than I do with my DK, both destroy everything in PvE, in PvP my NB is much more fun as well, I haven't played a sorc or a temp but I suspect if I did I wouldn't have too much problem. PvE doesn't seem to be hard to solo for any of the classes from what I've heard in game, as for PvP, I don't care how much you hate grouping, you won't do well in PvP solo.
  • Bramir
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    Its comical how fast you can finish the DK pvp daily, and even more comical how long it takes to finish the other PvP dailies.

  • murklor007neb18_ESO
    Wait I thought this was exactly what all the hardcore TES fans wanted?

    The removal of classes from the game. The only thing that will exist is varations of the DK. No more classes!

    Now all ZOS have to do is to had dedicated magic, healing and stealth skill trees to the DK and the transformation is complete.
  • Enkil
    Enkil
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    If you want to talk about an "epidemic crisis" there is currently an Ebola outbreak that is the worst the world has seen. Look up the 2014 Ebola outbreak in Guinea (West Africa).

    It would be far more constructive if you were to say this [specific] DK skill needs to be adjusted to balance it because of [reason/impact]. Just generalizing and using hyperbolic statements isn't gonna get you very far. It's a game and is slowly being balanced.... not death by bleeding out your eyes, rectum and other orifices.

    Suggestion: Reword your title so that it's not so insensitive when people are dying in a real world "epidemic crisis" currently occurring.
    Edited by Enkil on July 16, 2014 10:02PM
  • Animus0724
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    I love a good post thats full of inflammatory remarks and zero evidence.

    so many words but no examples.

    Dk might be strong, but you're waaaay over the top on this with nothing in your post to cite direct examples.

    no proof? No one will take you seriously. Sadly, I read the whole thing. Should've known better.

    You obviously don't play enough of the game, I recommend spending a little bit more time playing ESO before posting again.
    I take pride in being an incredibly smart dumb ass, or an incredibly dumb smart ass, either way I'm awesome.

    -The Art Of Warfare (T.A.W.)
  • Akula
    Akula
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    Bramir wrote: »
    Its comical how fast you can finish the DK pvp daily, and even more comical how long it takes to finish the other PvP dailies.

    So DK's are an easy kill then? That's it's..it's time to buff DKs, they're seriously gimp!
  • SDZald
    SDZald
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    Fshober28b14_ESO Said "So much so that people have been re-rolling in mass to DK's because of this."

    Humm I play 6 characters, one and only one is a DK, one of my least played.

    That has to be the longest WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA my character isn't the most uber character in the world rants I have read from any MMO player on all the MMO's I have played and that is saying something. :)

  • audabon2013
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    Animus0724 wrote: »
    I love a good post thats full of inflammatory remarks and zero evidence.

    so many words but no examples.

    Dk might be strong, but you're waaaay over the top on this with nothing in your post to cite direct examples.

    no proof? No one will take you seriously. Sadly, I read the whole thing. Should've known better.

    You obviously don't play enough of the game, I recommend spending a little bit more time playing ESO before posting again.

    You obviously make assumptions about people even though you know nothing about them. Well done. You have succesfully grasped the theme of OP's thread:

    accusations with zero supporting evidence.

  • tordr86b16_ESO
    tordr86b16_ESO
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    I 1 shot mobs with my NB! Nerf NB!
  • Orchish
    Orchish
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    Thanks for the laugh OP. Always enjoy a good joke after a long day.
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