Damage meter's

moxiesauce · July 2014

Anyone know if ZOS has any plans to allow damage meter's to track the damage of party members? I'm sure a lot of people would hate this, but I would really like it just to see how I stack up against other players for boss fights. It's also nice to know if you're carrying or being carried so I'd have to step up my game.

siledre · July 2014

it would be nice to have but I think it would be used to further alienate group play. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with solo play, I'm saying that soloers aren't the only people playing but as you add things like this solo players is all you will end up with.

moxiesauce · July 2014

siledre wrote: »

it would be nice to have but I think it would be used to further alienate group play.

It really depends on the person, I don't exactly enjoy carrying other players. Though if we are still clearing the content I'm fine. The issue will come up when we are dying over and over on a boss due to lack there of DPS. I feel the situations wouldn't arise often.

Kalman · July 2014

Nope can't see others dmg

Wifeaggro13 · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

Anyone know if ZOS has any plans to allow damage meter's to track the damage of party members? I'm sure a lot of people would hate this, but I would really like it just to see how I stack up against other players for boss fights. It's also nice to know if you're carrying or being carried so I'd have to step up my game.

they may let us now the lid has been blown of the mell magica problem they tried to cover up by limiting API. most people will post there DPS for you if you ask.

moxiesauce · July 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Anyone know if ZOS has any plans to allow damage meter's to track the damage of party members? I'm sure a lot of people would hate this, but I would really like it just to see how I stack up against other players for boss fights. It's also nice to know if you're carrying or being carried so I'd have to step up my game.

they may let us now the lid has been blown of the mell magica problem they tried to cover up by limiting API. most people will post there DPS for you if you ask.

Yea, but you get those players who will just tell you their dps, probably lie about it. Paul Sage said he like's dps metes so hopefully with update 4 or something they take the restriction off or add the capability, really not sure how it works lol.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

Anyone know if ZOS has any plans to allow damage meter's to track the damage of party members? I'm sure a lot of people would hate this, but I would really like it just to see how I stack up against other players for boss fights. It's also nice to know if you're carrying or being carried so I'd have to step up my game.

Doubtful. @moxiesauce‌, I'm guessin' in most circumstances, you already have a pretty good feel for which of these is taking place without having to see little numbers flitter across the screen.

DanteVFenris · July 2014

Only problem is, is that some people may sacrifice damage to assist heals...ect. I could name lots of things that would help the group but lower dps. There is room for crazy dps but not in expense of dropping players because that's not their prime focus.

ebondeath · July 2014

Damage meters are the reason I prefer to heal in groups instead of dps, but I guess in this game healers are expected to dps as well as heal (or so the forums have lead me to believe), so I guess I'm boned.

moxiesauce · July 2014

DanteVFenris wrote: »

Only problem is, is that some people may sacrifice damage to assist heals...ect. I could name lots of things that would help the group but lower dps. There is room for crazy dps but not in expense of dropping players because that's not their prime focus.

True, though the real reason is to see how well you are doing in comparison to other DPS or Healers.

moxiesauce · July 2014

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Anyone know if ZOS has any plans to allow damage meter's to track the damage of party members? I'm sure a lot of people would hate this, but I would really like it just to see how I stack up against other players for boss fights. It's also nice to know if you're carrying or being carried so I'd have to step up my game.

Doubtful. @moxiesauce‌, I'm guessin' in most circumstances, you already have a pretty good feel for which of these is taking place without having to see little numbers flitter across the screen.

End game I know I'm doing my part. On my lvl 12 sorc in full heavy and 2 hander, I got no idea how well I'm doing compared to other's in my group.

moxiesauce · July 2014

ebondeath wrote: »

Damage meters are the reason I prefer to heal in groups instead of dps, but I guess in this game healers are expected to dps as well as heal (or so the forums have lead me to believe), so I guess I'm boned.

I'd assume just heavy attacks on downtime ?

ebondeath · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

ebondeath wrote: »

Damage meters are the reason I prefer to heal in groups instead of dps, but I guess in this game healers are expected to dps as well as heal (or so the forums have lead me to believe), so I guess I'm boned.

I'd assume just heavy attacks on downtime ?

Maybe, that would be easily manageable. But I'd read that sorcs are preferred over templars as healers because they can contribute more dps while healing. Not that this is super relevent to me with my only max level toon being a dps NB, but my templar healer is sitting at VR2 and info like that makes me wonder if I'm wasting my time, it's intimidating.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

Anyone know if ZOS has any plans to allow damage meter's to track the damage of party members? I'm sure a lot of people would hate this, but I would really like it just to see how I stack up against other players for boss fights. It's also nice to know if you're carrying or being carried so I'd have to step up my game.

No and I hope never implement it.

The way to WoW is that way ____>

Leave the rest of us enjoy the game as we like without every single "powerplayer" to tell the rest if they are good or not. Being kicked from grps "because they do not perform", and other crap.

We have enough discrimination on classes, armour & weapons carried by players, that related to "trials" etc.

moxiesauce · July 2014

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Anyone know if ZOS has any plans to allow damage meter's to track the damage of party members? I'm sure a lot of people would hate this, but I would really like it just to see how I stack up against other players for boss fights. It's also nice to know if you're carrying or being carried so I'd have to step up my game.

No and I hope never implement it.

The way to WoW is that way
>

Leave the rest of us enjoy the game as we like without every single "powerplayer" to tell the rest if they are good or not. Being kicked from grps "because they do not perform", and other crap.

We have enough discrimination on classes, armour & weapons carried by players, that related to "trials" etc.

It's not a way to WoW lol, I simply don't want to be taken advantage of in groups because another player is casting a spell every 5 seconds. It's basically in the game already, just missing the fact I can see how everyone is doing. This is an MMO's not a SPG.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

It's not a way to WoW lol, I simply don't want to be taken advantage of in groups because another player is casting a spell every 5 seconds. It's basically in the game already, just missing the fact I can see how everyone is doing. This is an MMO's not a SPG.

Sorry mate is a game. If you believe that playing with others you are "taken advantage of" because they are slower than you, then seriously, maybe casual MMO like this one isn't for you.

moxiesauce · July 2014

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

It's not a way to WoW lol, I simply don't want to be taken advantage of in groups because another player is casting a spell every 5 seconds. It's basically in the game already, just missing the fact I can see how everyone is doing. This is an MMO's not a SPG.

Sorry mate is a game. If you believe that playing with others you are "taken advantage of" because they are slower than you, then seriously, maybe casual MMO like this one isn't for you.

ESO casual MMO? are we playing the same game?

*anyways I'm not one to kick somebody because of bad DPS, I'd rather be the one to back out and not ruin other's fun. Seeing other's DPS would simply be a tool to see how I stack up with other players. Not to ostracize them.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

ESO casual MMO? are we playing the same game?

*anyways I'm not one to kick somebody because of bad DPS, I'd rather be the one to back out and not ruin other's fun. Seeing other's DPS would simply be a tool to see how I stack up with other players. Not to ostracize them.

That is completely different than what you are saying above.

Fun and "I do not want to be taken advantage of" do not go together.

You either have fun and you do not care, or you crouch the numbers all the time.
If the later then, I believe WoW is the game for you.

And yes we play the same game, TESO.

NorthernFury · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

siledre wrote: »

it would be nice to have but I think it would be used to further alienate group play.

It really depends on the person, I don't exactly enjoy carrying other players. Though if we are still clearing the content I'm fine. The issue will come up when we are dying over and over on a boss due to lack there of DPS. I feel the situations wouldn't arise often.

Agree, but I think it's usually pretty clear who the problem is. I think adding others' numbers to the DPS meter would just create an e-peen arms race a la WoW.

kieso · July 2014

you can always ask people others' DPS.

Xnemesis · July 2014

I don't really see the need. Most of the time when a player is dying to mechanics or causes wipes their DPS is bad as well and you can just replace them if you need too. If nobody is dying and content is being finished then who cares other then for self gratification.

moxiesauce · July 2014

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

ESO casual MMO? are we playing the same game?

*anyways I'm not one to kick somebody because of bad DPS, I'd rather be the one to back out and not ruin other's fun. Seeing other's DPS would simply be a tool to see how I stack up with other players. Not to ostracize them.

That is completely different than what you are saying above.

Fun and "I do not want to be taken advantage of" do not go together.

You either have fun and you do not care, or you crouch the numbers all the time.
If the later then, I believe WoW is the game for you.

And yes we play the same game, TESO.

No WoW is tuned strictly for casual play, there is hardly any thinking about numbers anymore. There are definitely grey area's when it comes to this, don't see it as black and white.

moxiesauce · July 2014

Xnemesis wrote: »

I don't really see the need. Most of the time when a player is dying to mechanics or causes wipes their DPS is bad as well and you can just replace them if you need too. If nobody is dying and content is being finished then who cares other then for self gratification.

exactly, Like I said before, for me I would use it more as a tool to see how well I stack up with other players, not something to be an elitist with. True I don't like feeling like I'm being taken advantage of, but there are circumstance's where it's ok as long as content is still being cleared.

* I can deal with an ugly boss kill*

kitsinni · July 2014

They are the beginning of the downward spiral. You have the "I don't want to carry others" attitude which leads directly to sacrifice everything to do the most damage on the meters which leads to I am not going to throw that heal or utility spell because it hurts my damage which leads to .. WoW in its current state.

moxiesauce · July 2014

Well the spiral has already begun sir, Recount - FTC.

Besides if people need to use utility for a fight, they'll use it. I'm one of them. I'll sac my DPS any day if it's means we clear content. I'm assuming you would be the same way, amirite?

traigusb14_ESO2 · July 2014

We've come a long way in MMOs... I enjoy the fact that there are a lot less burn phases then before.

It is nice to see complicated mechanincs that used to only be seen on raid bosses make it to not only local bosses, but trash mobs.

Being a good player is not just about DPS stacking, we see a lot more secondary effects and group activities.

ESO is doing generally well here (except the trials it seems). We can ask, "what are you bringing besides DPS?" an it being a serious and relevant question to any level group... even with the overpowered AOE spamming that needs to be tweaked.

ESO generally expects more from what would be traditionally DPS classes. NBs and Sorcs can: heal, tank, oftank, CC, Buff, Cancel baddie specials, and throw down protection areas... off the top of my head. Good groups expect them to do some of the above, not just piano key their DPS bar.

I've seen so many supa-DPS spam build get mangled in dungeons (public and private) it is pretty sad. (Hint: even DPS classes need to invest in health, even at the expense of more DPS).

I'm glad ESO isn't a game where everyone else has to carry 1 trick DPS players all the time.

moxiesauce · July 2014

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

We've come a long way in MMOs... I enjoy the fact that there are a lot less burn phases then before.

It is nice to see complicated mechanincs that used to only be seen on raid bosses make it to not only local bosses, but trash mobs.

Being a good player is not just about DPS stacking, we see a lot more secondary effects and group activities.

ESO is doing generally well here (except the trials it seems). We can ask, "what are you bringing besides DPS?" an it being a serious and relevant question to any level group... even with the overpowered AOE spamming that needs to be tweaked.

ESO generally expects more from what would be traditionally DPS classes. NBs and Sorcs can: heal, tank, oftank, CC, Buff, Cancel baddie specials, and throw down protection areas... off the top of my head. Good groups expect them to do some of the above, not just piano key their DPS bar.

I've seen so many supa-DPS spam build get mangled in dungeons (public and private) it is pretty sad. (Hint: even DPS classes need to invest in health, even at the expense of more DPS).

I'm glad ESO isn't a game where everyone else has to carry 1 trick DPS players all the time.

I completely agree, that alone should stray away people being elitist when it comes to seeing lower end dmg If they bring more to the table.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO · July 2014

I could understand appeal of idea play the way u want. I understand idea od being different. Saying that teso is casual game which will stay that way is premature. U see that zos guys are changing some stuff radically coz things in general are not working like they expected. Hope that u all get by now that play like u want in eso group content is not working well :-) if u like i can give u list of reasons , sources and explanations .
Funny thing is that guys who run pve content just once they object damage meters. I wonder why and then i got it - they dont understand function of damage meters and next big thing is that they want game for themselves ( however that may sound silly )
Damage meters are tools which will be used by lot of different people and occasionally some people will abuse them .
Damage meters are tools for guys who like to compete with themselves and others.
I love output meters and group statistics coz there i find my motivation for improving my char.
I assume that zos will allow output meter group functions in moment when they balance out stamina/magic and class imbalance.
In my opinion they closed api just to hide how much they screwed under the hud.

Burnemdown · July 2014

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

I could understand appeal of idea play the way u want. I understand idea od being different. Saying that teso is casual game which will stay that way is premature. U see that zos guys are changing some stuff radically coz things in general are not working like they expected. Hope that u all get by now that play like u want in eso group content is not working well :-) if u like i can give u list of reasons , sources and explanations .
Funny thing is that guys who run pve content just once they object damage meters. I wonder why and then i got it - they dont understand function of damage meters and next big thing is that they want game for themselves ( however that may sound silly )
Damage meters are tools which will be used by lot of different people and occasionally some people will abuse them .
Damage meters are tools for guys who like to compete with themselves and others.
I love output meters and group statistics coz there i find my motivation for improving my char.
I assume that zos will allow output meter group functions in moment when they balance out stamina/magic and class imbalance.
In my opinion they closed api just to hide how much they screwed under the hud.

If you want meters to improve your game play, you already have that. Why would you need a group meter?
I understand raid leaders would say, to analyze group performance.
It really in most cases turns into a way to exclude someone from a group that isnt part of an established group, that plays together on a regular basis.(a pug ).
Are you then telling us that you can't trust those same guildies to supply truthful numbers when you are having trouble with content?

Hilgara · July 2014

WOW has done so much damage to the MMO industry. Its like this enormous black hole that everything has to gravitate towards.
Why can't someone come up with something innovative that they haven't just ported from WOW.

AlexDougherty · July 2014

I have heard the arguements for damage meters before. I disagree with them, they end up being used to grade players, and ostracise those who fall behind the curve.

One of the things Damage Meters can't measure is teamwork, a player might not be doing the max damage because he's keeping an eye on weaker team-mates, and pulling mobs away from them when they get overwhelmed. I have both done this, and been saved by someone doing this.

Damage Meters end up promoting a very specific playstyle, one that is slightly anti-social. If you want to play in a team, play as part of a team, not a group of one-uppers who function only within their pre-defined roles.