How being a tank means absolutely NOTHING! in PvP and other gripes.

Koensol · July 2014

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

That's what u get for riding a horse it's almost a guarantee kill. What I do is get lots of stamina pots and just sprint or sneak if I'm on the frontlines. Only use your horse if you are within a Zerg or miles behind your alliance lines.

That story with the horse was only to illustrate part of how I felt. I know it wasn't good play on my part. Still I think you get destroyed far too quickly as a fully specced tank. My main point though comes down to the following: (Remember this is my opinion before commenting)

1. Basic mitigation from armor, spell resist and passives is not enough to feel tanky. Also, other roles can get similar mitigation.
2. Blocking alone doesn't cut it imo and besides others (dps and healers) can block just fine as well.
3. There is no real advantage you give to your group by being a tank specced player. Having no tank in a pvp group doesn't mean you are a bad group as opposed to a group that doesn't have dps or healers. As I said, aside from blocking, there is no clear tanking mechanic to support your group.

Koensol · July 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

In general, I think blocking does make you a tank. Armor certainly does not make you a tank, because even with all light armor and no skill buffs, you can get 2300+ armor at v12, which is well above the soft cap.

Exactly. Which is something ZOS should fix. The current soft caps are pathetic and reduce role variety.

Aeratus wrote: »

While you're right that healers and dps can block, the truth is that they don't want to block. The tank is the designated blocker.

I disagree. Everyone in their right mind blocks attacks if they can. Especially if those attacks are easily noticable like Sorc's Crystal Shard, the Templars Solar Flare, Snipe and other hard hitting attacks. And since the Fotm spec in ESO is robe+stick+magicka attacks, there is plenty of stamina to spare.

Aeratus wrote: »

PVP tanks have more roles than the PVE tank. In PVP the tank also has the responsibility of holding up the battleline by being difficult to kill. This involves blocking, but also involves use of class skills like reflective scales, dragon blood, defensive posture, veil of blades, potions, etc.

I suppose you have a point there. Although any of the skills you have named are also used by Dps players for having some basic survivability and for not wanting to be a glass cannon that cannot defend himself. Running with only offensive skills is kind of unwise if you as me.

Xnemesis · July 2014

You made a choice to roll solo into a warzone on the back of a horse at dead sprint.....Risk Vs. Reward my friend.

WyndStryke · July 2014

Xnemesis wrote: »

You made a choice to roll solo into a warzone on the back of a horse at dead sprint.....Risk Vs. Reward my friend.

Absolutely. Solo horse riding = suicide, doubly so if sprinting.

There will be changes with heavy armour in a while, so maybe things might change then, but the bottom line is that if you risk your life on a horse, don't be surprised if you lose it. My usual MO is to sneak out to wherever I want to go, but I sometimes ride the way back, just because it doesn't matter then, getting ganked = a shortcut home.

Bashev · July 2014

First - the knock down when you fall down of the horse is unbreakable.
Second - you do not do it right if you are not in light armor (sadly but it is true).
The main source of damage mitigation is from blocking. If you have the resources and the right skills you can hold the line for your teammates as some of the participants in the discussion already mentioned it.
Third - someone mentioned that heavy armor changes will be done, so far the only change is that they added 4% cc break reduction per equipped piece of heavy armor on PTS.
My advice for you (not the best one I guess) try to adjust to the game mechanics. Keep your 1 hand sword and shield, use light armors and use your magicka for staying alive.
Hopefully someday we will not be punished that we use heavy armor and it will make sense to equip it.

frwinters_ESO · July 2014

Koensol wrote: »

I have a couple of issues with the way certain aspects of combat work in this game. Especially in PvP in the regards of CC and TTK. Below is a short story to illustrate how I feel this way.

"I am a VR 4 Templar who is mainly a tank in setup. I have armor, spell resist, and health regen softcapped and have about 3k health in PvP. I like riding around in Cyrodiil in search of 1v1's. I'm not the most hardcore skilled PvP'er out there but I can be more than average in a 1v1 and I tend to win often, even against some higher VR players.

Yesterday I got knocked off my horse by two guys. One was a VR 4 Nightblade and the other was a VR 2 Sorc. I get the KD for falling of my horse, which lasted for 5 freaking seconds! CC break didn't work, I couldn't do *** and could only watch how my tanky character gets destroyed within the 5 second duration."

In my opinion this simply isn't fair and is crappy design. The knockdown duration for falling off your horse shouldn't last that long and a fully specced tank character should not die in 5 seconds to 2 guys of a similar level. Armor and spell resist mean nothing in this game. And this doesn't only happen when knocked down from horseback. There have been certain instances where I get charged by some DK and instantly get taloned to the ground. CC break doesn't work, neither does dodge roll. I lol as I see the DK pop his little standard on my head and then continues to spam me with flame lash. By the time I get out of the stunlock I am either dead or very close.

This isn't a thread to complain about DK's, but I'd just like to point out my frustration with how CC works in this game and how being a tank means absolutely nothing in PvP. I was disappointed enough to not see an additional effect to the taunt abilities in ESO, as in where they reduce the damage done by an individual by a certain percentage, except if that individual is attacking you. Also there no feature like 'guard' that games like WAR and TOR had. Being a tank in PvP is just being gimped DPS that has a tiny bit more survivability than other roles. Let's not forget how light armored players can easily get softcapped on armor and spell resist by a simple press of a button, or how every other role has acces to the same defensive abilities. The only thing you could call being tanky is being able to focuss on countering casters by using skills like eclipse, defensive posture and reflective scales.

PvP seems to be all about who can do the most damage in the least amount of time and about choosing the right targets to unleash upon. It is ridiculously easy to drop a target within 6 seconds.Tanking is non-existant and having a big health pool and stacking defensive stats will not make you much harder to kill.

I really love this kind of PvP though and enjoy it in ESO, I just hope ZOS will do something about TTK and the viability of defensive roles in PvP.

I am sorry but this makes no sense. Anyone who gets knocked off there horse like this has to deal with the same consequences. This is why the horse has a Stamina trait. If you let that trait drain your going to get knocked off and you suffer the consequences. Your tank means nothing when your on the ground laying on your back without the option to block nor use abilities. Everyone has died this way more than once. Using your horse in Cyrodil is a risk you take.

Soloeus · July 2014

Tremulous wrote: »

Stats mean nothing if you are not wearing pvp gear.

Increase Armor Cap by about

No, seriously.

Tamanous · July 2014

The fault lies with thinking pve tanks and pvp tanks are the same. Change your way of thinking and the issue lessons or even goes away.

Koensol · July 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

I have a couple of issues with the way certain aspects of combat work in this game. Especially in PvP in the regards of CC and TTK. Below is a short story to illustrate how I feel this way.

"I am a VR 4 Templar who is mainly a tank in setup. I have armor, spell resist, and health regen softcapped and have about 3k health in PvP. I like riding around in Cyrodiil in search of 1v1's. I'm not the most hardcore skilled PvP'er out there but I can be more than average in a 1v1 and I tend to win often, even against some higher VR players.

Yesterday I got knocked off my horse by two guys. One was a VR 4 Nightblade and the other was a VR 2 Sorc. I get the KD for falling of my horse, which lasted for 5 freaking seconds! CC break didn't work, I couldn't do *** and could only watch how my tanky character gets destroyed within the 5 second duration."

In my opinion this simply isn't fair and is crappy design. The knockdown duration for falling off your horse shouldn't last that long and a fully specced tank character should not die in 5 seconds to 2 guys of a similar level. Armor and spell resist mean nothing in this game. And this doesn't only happen when knocked down from horseback. There have been certain instances where I get charged by some DK and instantly get taloned to the ground. CC break doesn't work, neither does dodge roll. I lol as I see the DK pop his little standard on my head and then continues to spam me with flame lash. By the time I get out of the stunlock I am either dead or very close.

This isn't a thread to complain about DK's, but I'd just like to point out my frustration with how CC works in this game and how being a tank means absolutely nothing in PvP. I was disappointed enough to not see an additional effect to the taunt abilities in ESO, as in where they reduce the damage done by an individual by a certain percentage, except if that individual is attacking you. Also there no feature like 'guard' that games like WAR and TOR had. Being a tank in PvP is just being gimped DPS that has a tiny bit more survivability than other roles. Let's not forget how light armored players can easily get softcapped on armor and spell resist by a simple press of a button, or how every other role has acces to the same defensive abilities. The only thing you could call being tanky is being able to focuss on countering casters by using skills like eclipse, defensive posture and reflective scales.

PvP seems to be all about who can do the most damage in the least amount of time and about choosing the right targets to unleash upon. It is ridiculously easy to drop a target within 6 seconds.Tanking is non-existant and having a big health pool and stacking defensive stats will not make you much harder to kill.

I really love this kind of PvP though and enjoy it in ESO, I just hope ZOS will do something about TTK and the viability of defensive roles in PvP.

I am sorry but this makes no sense. Anyone who gets knocked off there horse like this has to deal with the same consequences. This is why the horse has a Stamina trait. If you let that trait drain your going to get knocked off and you suffer the consequences. Your tank means nothing when your on the ground laying on your back without the option to block nor use abilities. Everyone has died this way more than once. Using your horse in Cyrodil is a risk you take.

If you had bothered to read the thread, it would be clear the thing with the horse is not my main point. I have more than once explained what is lacking in my opinion and what needs to be improved.