Why this game does not need an global AH.

tuckerpb2 · July 2014

it is simple.
step one. make you main character and 7 alts.
step two. in the alts get them all 12-15 skill points. this way you can get each one lvl 3 in the hireling skill for all the crafting skills.
step three. get one of the alts to vr1 + all the sky shards and all the mission skill points you can. this way you can max out all crafting skill and go to craglorn and have access to all set crafting locations. (and you do not even have to finish coldharbor)
step four. join at least 4 trading guilds.

that is it. with this. you have play you main or if you want make your alts the different classes and/or factions and play them to. you can craft all the sets yourself. and only thing you will have to buy is and raw material and lvling material you may need.

NadiusMaximus · July 2014

Or one character. Play the game get all sky shards. Max crafting. Join one guild.

Sell stuff to anyone in the world for the going price at an AUCTION HOUSE.

Phantax · July 2014

Yep and put your item for sale into a guild store and have it restricted to only 500 possible buyers !
Alternatively put it in an AH and have 50,000 possible buyers ?

Use guild stores and continue to have a segmented sales community or an AH as part of a dynamic economy !

A dynamic economy that fluctuates with player supply-and-demand. Yes people will try to outbid others, some will flood the market but that just makes it more interesting.
The other main point about a global market is that it far better represents what the players value certain items at. After all something is only worth what people are willing to pay !
This fragmented system we have now is restrictive and much more prone to price fixing as the seller has a pre-defined buyer base giving them a strangle hold on the market.

hk11 · July 2014

I just want one for selfish reasons. I am a consumer and want the best possible deal. An auction house would punish people who want to have private auctions as an added benefit.

Soloeus · July 2014

I had no disagree button so this is the feedback not having the button makes me give you.

THIS ISN'T EVEN AN IDEA ITS NOT EVEN A REASON!!

I want an auction house because as a seller I want a wide market with a lot of people. You aren't even making any points you are just making hyperbolic statements with NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE!

THREADS LIKE THIS IS WHY WE NEED A DISAGREE BUTTON BECAUSE I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO MAKE A POST TO DISAGREE WITH THIS.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

emeraldbay · July 2014

There are many reasons why this game doesn't need an auction house, but the OP's post is not one of them.

tuckerpb2 · July 2014

I was trying to be sarcastic. With so many people crying that a global AH would be bad. I was pointing out that with the way the game is now. Players do not really need to buy their over priced items.

Fairydragon3 · July 2014

you have a flaw, you alts will only give you lower grade materials, as the delivery is dependent on your level and crafting level.

putting more points in only give you a greater chance to get improvement items, and delivery 2 times a day

tuckerpb2 · July 2014

Fairydragon3 wrote: »

you have a flaw, you alts will only give you lower grade materials, as the delivery is dependent on your level and crafting level.

putting more points in only give you a greater chance to get improvement items, and delivery 2 times a day

honestly the improvement items are all you need. the rest is just a bonus.

AlexDougherty · July 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

I had no disagree button so this is the feedback not having the button makes me give you.

THIS ISN'T EVEN AN IDEA ITS NOT EVEN A REASON!!

I want an auction house because as a seller I want a wide market with a lot of people. You aren't even making any points you are just making hyperbolic statements with NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE!

THREADS LIKE THIS IS WHY WE NEED A DISAGREE BUTTON BECAUSE I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO MAKE A POST TO DISAGREE WITH THIS.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

No, this is an example of why we don't need a disagree button, with a disagree we have no idea of why you disagree. But you have actually spelt out why you disagree, even if it did get edited.

You posting to disagree gave far more feedback than a stupid button would.

nerevarine1138 · July 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

I had no disagree button so this is the feedback not having the button makes me give you.

THIS ISN'T EVEN AN IDEA ITS NOT EVEN A REASON!!

I want an auction house because as a seller I want a wide market with a lot of people. You aren't even making any points you are just making hyperbolic statements with NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE!

THREADS LIKE THIS IS WHY WE NEED A DISAGREE BUTTON BECAUSE I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO MAKE A POST TO DISAGREE WITH THIS.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

No, this is an example of why we don't need a disagree button, with a disagree we have no idea of why you disagree. But you have actually spelt out why you disagree, even if it did get edited.

You posting to disagree gave far more feedback than a stupid button would.

Exactly. And can we stop trolling every thread with this now?

OP et al.: Why must everyone try and figure out the best way to exploit the economy? Just enjoy playing the game. Make stuff and sell it. Or don't. But I simply can't comprehend taking the game seriously enough to develop special methods of exploiting hirelings, etc.

Phantax · July 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

I had no disagree button so this is the feedback not having the button makes me give you.

THIS ISN'T EVEN AN IDEA ITS NOT EVEN A REASON!!

I want an auction house because as a seller I want a wide market with a lot of people. You aren't even making any points you are just making hyperbolic statements with NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE!

THREADS LIKE THIS IS WHY WE NEED A DISAGREE BUTTON BECAUSE I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO MAKE A POST TO DISAGREE WITH THIS.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

No, this is an example of why we don't need a disagree button, with a disagree we have no idea of why you disagree. But you have actually spelt out why you disagree, even if it did get edited.

You posting to disagree gave far more feedback than a stupid button would.

Exactly. And can we stop trolling every thread with this now?

OP et al.: Why must everyone try and figure out the best way to exploit the economy? Just enjoy playing the game. Make stuff and sell it. Or don't. But I simply can't comprehend taking the game seriously enough to develop special methods of exploiting hirelings, etc.

What have I told you about making posts I agree with !

aleister · July 2014

Until this game has a real auction house or some other mechanism that offers the equivalent ability to market to the entire faction in one place, it will never a real economy. The resistance to adding an AH is just wrong-headed.

nerevarine1138 · July 2014

aleister wrote: »

Until this game has a real auction house or some other mechanism that offers the equivalent ability to market to the entire faction in one place, it will never a real economy. The resistance to adding an AH is just wrong-headed.

The economy is working just fine. Unless your definition of a "real" economy is a game where people manipulate the global AH in order to make a profit. And while that may resemble Wall Street more than ESO's current system, it's a whole lot less fun for people who don't get off on that.

Fairydragon3 · July 2014

aleister wrote: »

Until this game has a real auction house or some other mechanism that offers the equivalent ability to market to the entire faction in one place, it will never a real economy. The resistance to adding an AH is just wrong-headed.

someone doesn't know what economy means.....or you are plain using the word wrong on purpose. that fact that people trade and buy from each other means there is an economy, not one that you are used to, but an economy none the less

Yah know back in the day, we used to not only drop things for the global economy market, we also advertised ourselves, and where you could buy our products( SWG). People actually enjoyed participating in the economy, not just let the game play for them, buy trying to undercut the lowest AH price(wow)

murklor007neb18_ESO · July 2014

TBH I just want to play the game, relax with ingame friends and have fun for every now and then in the evenings. Maybe enjoy a good dungeon, maybe find an item that looks like it could be worth something to sell.

You know whats not fun? Spending 6 hours every day swapping between 15 characters and 4 guilds just to sell some stuff in your 120/120 filled inventory.

If I wanted to get rich spending that much time on something, I'd get a second job instead.

Blade_07 · July 2014

The reasons for having an AH vastly out weighs the guild stores. Again I will give Zenimax a damn good job at trying something new and different from other MMO's. But it has proven to be a fail sadly. The constant spam in zone chat to sell items is proof enough that people are not putting their faith in the guild stores. I really like how Zenimax has fixed the search functions for the guild store. Has made using them much easier! I cant thank Zenimax enough for the much needed improvement! Although FACT, AH has been a complete and total success in all other MMO's and if its proven to work well then why exclude it any further? Just take the AH concept and see where you might be able to improve it and make it even better! That would be the best way to do it! Make an AH that is better then all the other AH's in other games! Make it shine above all others.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

No AHs ever. I hated them when I played games with them, and I doubt ESO would be magically different.

Guild stores are a stabilizing force. I don't generally have to compete with someone undercutting me by a few gold pieces at a time, and I don't have to deal with the market being flooded at as drastic a rate as I would otherwise. As a buyer, I'm less likely to get screwed by overpricing because guild leaders and officers can moderate their members. If they aren't doing their job, I can go to a different market.

Some people play the market like it's a mini game. They don't care about actual profit, just "Winning" by being the one who everyone buys from. Since I can't smash basic economics into these peoples' heads, being able to avoid them is very nice.

Phantax · July 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

Until this game has a real auction house or some other mechanism that offers the equivalent ability to market to the entire faction in one place, it will never a real economy. The resistance to adding an AH is just wrong-headed.

The economy is working just fine. Unless your definition of a "real" economy is a game where people manipulate the global AH in order to make a profit. And while that may resemble Wall Street more than ESO's current system, it's a whole lot less fun for people who don't get off on that.

Actually you're wrong there. Its far easier to manipulate the smaller, segregated stores we have now than it is a much larger AH system. Simple quantity of numbers ensure that prices fluctuate in favour of the buyers. Yes of course people will try to raise their prices, but then smart people just undercut them and the buyers bet a better deal.
With the smaller stores your seller-base is limited (kind of a captured audience) they have far less choice or where to buy and from whom. Even if they were in 5 mega-trading guilds they would only have access to 2500 possible sellers ! (and the sellers limited to that many buyers) With the global system the maximum numbers would be in the in the high thousands (say 50,000 pulling a number out of my head as I don't know what the mega server max is)

The other less obvious point is when the smaller stores / Trade guilds operate there is more chance the sellers will know each other. All you need then is for a couple of them to team up, agree not to get into a price war with each other and they have control of the guild sales (that's simplifying it, but you get the idea).
Its hard, if not impossible to do that when you have 50,000 competitors !

You used the word economy (most the posters have) but we don't actually have an economy due to the segregation. Mini-economies yes kind of, but they are prone to the market manipulation you seem to think a global AH would have.
Think of the phrase divide-and-conquer, segregated its easy to control the amount. price and availability of the smaller guild stores. Not so with a global system.

DigitalHype · July 2014

tuckerpb2 wrote: »

I was trying to be sarcastic. With so many people crying that a global AH would be bad. I was pointing out that with the way the game is now. Players do not really need to buy their over priced items.

I immediately recognized your post as sarcasm. It was evident to me, your point was "look at all these hoops".

It's interesting that we've reached a point, where folks actually took your post as sincere. Sad state of affairs, in my opinion.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

If someone manipulates the small 500 person market I am in, I change markets, or complain to the head of the guild. Problem solved.

There's no corresponding mitigating force for an AH.

someuser · July 2014

tuckerpb2 wrote: »

it is simple.
step one. make you main character and 7 alts.
step two. in the alts get them all 12-15 skill points. this way you can get each one lvl 3 in the hireling skill for all the crafting skills.
step three. get one of the alts to vr1 + all the sky shards and all the mission skill points you can. this way you can max out all crafting skill and go to craglorn and have access to all set crafting locations. (and you do not even have to finish coldharbor)
step four. join at least 4 trading guilds.

that is it. with this. you have play you main or if you want make your alts the different classes and/or factions and play them to. you can craft all the sets yourself. and only thing you will have to buy is and raw material and lvling material you may need.

<gasp>

Is it really that simple?! omg omg omg I've been doing it all wrong

Leveling each crafting alt to have three hirelings is doable, but not simple for most players. Remember, you are going to have to grind those craft skills out to hit hireling III. Going to vet lvl 1 with all skyshards (assuming you are sane and use add-ons) and all missions SP is doable, but not simple for most players. That's several days of hardcore playing or weeks of casual playing for us ADULTS who don't get to play games 8+ hrs a day.

martinhpb16_ESO · July 2014

Yup the OPs suggestion is a good one but it just exemplifies the over complicated but so limited system we have now.

The upcoming trading developments are just going to make it even more fiddly and elitist. If you are not in an elite trading guild its too bad.

A global AH is what we need to make a decent user-friendly, open-to everyone, macro-economy.

Despite all the doomsayer's hyperbole.

martinhpb16_ESO · July 2014

someuser wrote: »

tuckerpb2 wrote: »

it is simple.
step one. make you main character and 7 alts.
step two. in the alts get them all 12-15 skill points. this way you can get each one lvl 3 in the hireling skill for all the crafting skills.
step three. get one of the alts to vr1 + all the sky shards and all the mission skill points you can. this way you can max out all crafting skill and go to craglorn and have access to all set crafting locations. (and you do not even have to finish coldharbor)
step four. join at least 4 trading guilds.

that is it. with this. you have play you main or if you want make your alts the different classes and/or factions and play them to. you can craft all the sets yourself. and only thing you will have to buy is and raw material and lvling material you may need.

<gasp>

Is it really that simple?! omg omg omg I've been doing it all wrong

Leveling each crafting alt to have three hirelings is doable, but not simple for most players. Remember, you are going to have to grind those craft skills out to hit hireling III. Going to vet lvl 1 with all skyshards (assuming you are sane and use add-ons) and all missions SP is doable, but not simple for most players. That's several days of hardcore playing or weeks of casual playing for us ADULTS who don't get to play games 8+ hrs a day.

Yes this ^^ and that's the trading system we have, it's all bonkers !!!

martinhpb16_ESO · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

If someone manipulates the small 500 person market I am in, I change markets, or complain to the head of the guild. Problem solved.

There's no corresponding mitigating force for an AH.

Don't worry the laws of supply and demand will mitigate any manipulation of an AH.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

If someone manipulates the small 500 person market I am in, I change markets, or complain to the head of the guild. Problem solved.

There's no corresponding mitigating force for an AH.

Don't worry the laws of supply and demand will mitigate any manipulation of an AH.

In practice it doesn't, based on past experience. There is almost always more than enough supply, and not nearly enough demand.

martinhpb16_ESO · July 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

Until this game has a real auction house or some other mechanism that offers the equivalent ability to market to the entire faction in one place, it will never a real economy. The resistance to adding an AH is just wrong-headed.

The economy is working just fine. Unless your definition of a "real" economy is a game where people manipulate the global AH in order to make a profit. And while that may resemble Wall Street more than ESO's current system, it's a whole lot less fun for people who don't get off on that.

Whats wrong with making a profit ?

So your reason for me not being able to sell my wares to people who probably want to buy them and for me not regularly finding the items I need, is that some imaginary people will take over an AH global economy and somehow manipulate it?

If what you mean is that some people will be savvy in an open market and therefore actually make a profit, but thereby also contribute to the economy, because they will buy my stuff too - then I say let them profit.

I'm sorry but these posts that come up that are anti AH always blow things out of proportion.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

Until this game has a real auction house or some other mechanism that offers the equivalent ability to market to the entire faction in one place, it will never a real economy. The resistance to adding an AH is just wrong-headed.

The economy is working just fine. Unless your definition of a "real" economy is a game where people manipulate the global AH in order to make a profit. And while that may resemble Wall Street more than ESO's current system, it's a whole lot less fun for people who don't get off on that.

Whats wrong with making a profit ?

So your reason for me not being able to sell my wares to people who probably want to buy them and for me not regularly finding the items I need, is that some imaginary people will take over an AH global economy and somehow manipulate it?

If what you mean is that some people will be savvy in an open market and therefore actually make a profit, but thereby also contribute to the economy, because they will buy my stuff too - then I say let them profit.

I'm sorry but these posts that come up that are anti AH always blow things out of proportion.

These posts are coming from actual experience with global auction houses.

These "imaginary" people do in fact exist, they pop up in every game.

You're arguing that a free market benefits the little guy, and we all know that's garbage.

martinhpb16_ESO · July 2014

From Wiki.

"A market-based economy is where goods and services are produced without obstruction or interference, and exchanged according to demand and supply between participants (economic agents) by barter or a medium of exchange with a credit or debit value accepted within the network, such as a unit of currency and at some free market or market clearing price. Capital and labor can move freely to any area of emerging shortage, signaled by rising price, and thus dynamically and automatically relieve any such threat. Market based economies require transparency on information, such as true prices, to work, and may include various kinds of immaterial production, such as affective labor that describes work carried out that is intended to produce or modify emotional experiences in people, but does not have a tangible, physical product as a result."

"A command-based economy is where a central political agent commands what is produced and how it is sold and distributed. Shortages are common problems with a command-based economy, as there is no mechanism to manage the information (prices) about the systems natural supply and demand dynamics."

TBH I'd rather be playing this game in a market economy rather than one where markets are limited to 500 and elite trading guilds get access to kiosks and cyro stores.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · July 2014

would prefer a command based economy, especially since we are not talking about cold war russia. Shortages are not a problem.

Also, I would disagree with some of that, but it's wikipedia. /shrug

martinhpb16_ESO · July 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

If someone manipulates the small 500 person market I am in, I change markets, or complain to the head of the guild. Problem solved.

There's no corresponding mitigating force for an AH.

Don't worry the laws of supply and demand will mitigate any manipulation of an AH.

In practice it doesn't, based on past experience. There is almost always more than enough supply, and not nearly enough demand.

Can you cite any examples as this is quite q sweeping statement.

In 7 years of playing LOTRO I never saw what you describe. If there is not enough demand then supply will naturally fall-off. People are not going to be willing to put effort in to gathering, raiding, farming items that do not sell.

MMO AH prices tend to represent not only the rarity of an item but also the amount of effort somoene was willing to put into gathering a mass resource, raiding or just plain luck.

I often used to think of the LOTRO AH as an efficient transactional mechanism. I could sell my crafted gear, or items I did no want. In exchange I got in-game gold that I could then use to buy the items that I did want.

e.g. Say I had raided for weeks and weeks and got an item that was good for another class. I could put it on the AH, sell and then buy the item for my class.

Here is an example from ESO. The other night I wanted a vet 10 ring that I could enchant that had health. In my 3 trading guilds there was only one posted and it was way more than I wanted to buy. Supply was very limited. I had no way of seeing that exact same ring for sale in a guild I am not a member of and comparing prices.

It is insane that the simple transactions we want to make are so restricted and often rely on the buyer/seller being online at the same time in the same zone chat.