How to improve Vampire leech skill?

Mescalamba · July 2014

Yea sorry about whine, but first vampire skill is one that simply leechs HP/stamina from enemy and does decent damage while you channel it. And only once per target!

Its horribly crippled, cause its tied to stun, which is also part of that skill, but unlike other skills (Nightblade ones for example) its tied that way that you CANT leech when target is immune to stun. Which as you can imagine is a LOT of enemies, including even some mobs.

Before they reverese patched, I couldnt even leech much from normal humanoids cause they used CC break and bye-bye my leech.

Since its one of primary vamp skills its usage is seriously limited due this. I came up with following solutions.

PS: Game has 5 active skill slots, so you really think hard before you add something in it. Would you use something that can give you HP/stamina ONCE per mob/fight and what cant be relied upon, since it might not work? Yea I guess you wouldnt. Skill selection can be easily difference between life and death.

Mescalamba · July 2014

change to HoT+DoT without channel (stuns only target that can be stunned)

Im for HoT+DoT with stun (insta cast). Wouldnt mind if damage was lower and heal too, especially if we could use it more than once. Sure, it will be bit night-bladish after, but vampires are meant to be able to do this.

kieso · July 2014

do nothing, vampire players should suffer cause they want to play vampires

I voted D and I'm a vampire; I'm self hating.

Blooddancer · July 2014

do nothing, vampire players should suffer cause they want to play vampires

To be honest Vamps are uber enough as it is, honestly you get advantages over non-vamps with minimal penalty.

Mataata · July 2014

do nothing, vampire players should suffer cause they want to play vampires

I enjoyed being a vampire in past TES games because it was a high risk/high reward thing. You had to be very careful about going out in the sun and became SUPER feeble, but in return had access to grand powers. Now, though, they've gotten rid of the risk of being a vampire and it's nothing but power.
In just about every scenario, a vampire in ESO does way better at everything than someone who isn't one. Wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole.

Mescalamba · July 2014

change to HoT+DoT without channel (stuns only target that can be stunned)

Seems you guys dont play them that much..

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

keep stun, but stuns only target that can be stunned, leechs from everything

I'd really like option 2 or 3. As it is its not that good because it either can't be used because target is blocking, or just gets cc broken and they become immune to vamp drain/feed for a long period of time.

Malpherian · July 2014

You forgot an option:

* Make it like any other skill that can be used unlimited number of times per target based on mag/stam/whatever (Just like every other classes Stuns and Leach skills). While also ensuring that the skill leach can be used regardless of the monsters immunity to stun/cc/.

There.. Problem solved. Every other class has some sort of leach/stun that can be used infinitely. Why did you cripple the vampires trait line?

Mescalamba · July 2014

change to HoT+DoT without channel (stuns only target that can be stunned)

Malpherian wrote: »

You forgot an option:

* Make it like any other skill that can be used unlimited number of times per target based on mag/stam/whatever (Just like every other classes Stuns and Leach skills). While also ensuring that the skill leach can be used regardless of the monsters immunity to stun/cc/.

There.. Problem solved. Every other class has some sort of leach/stun that can be used infinitely. Why did you cripple the vampires trait line?

Hm, I think they added that "once" due being rather cheap (magicka wise) and doing quite a bit of damage while leeching rather lot.

I think that isnt that big issue, just that stun part requirment is.

But yea, as you say.. it would be better that way.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

keep stun, but stuns only target that can be stunned, leechs from everything

Malpherian wrote: »

You forgot an option:

* Make it like any other skill that can be used unlimited number of times per target based on mag/stam/whatever (Just like every other classes Stuns and Leach skills). While also ensuring that the skill leach can be used regardless of the monsters immunity to stun/cc/.

There.. Problem solved. Every other class has some sort of leach/stun that can be used infinitely. Why did you cripple the vampires trait line?

Now if that happened then the skill would be overpowered, and people would get killed way too easily by vampires. All they need to do is remove the inability to use it on a blocking target, and even make it non-cc breakable since it can't be spammed on the same target anyways.

aipex8_ESO · July 2014

do nothing, vampire players should suffer cause they want to play vampires

I'm a stamina based vampire and I find Invigorating Drain to be very powerful as is. I've never had a mob break the CC themselves (I've broken the drain by hitting block though, which is fine). I don't mind that it can only be used once per target or that some boss types are immune. It forces you to use a little strategy with it (I love when I'm fighting an immune boss and he summons adds that most people hate... for me it's like, "fill'er up?") I think if you could spam it on anything it would be way OP.

If I could change one thing about it, it would be that it resets the target if you die. Nothing worse than fighting a boss that isn't immune and you know you'll need to use it on. You use it, but die and then have to wait and wait for it to reset so you can try the fight again.

Also, before the first vampire nerf (ability mag reduction from stages) I think 75% of the population of Tamriel was vampires. It was a little ridiculous. Making Drain any more powerful than it is and you're going to see a resurgence of vampire over-population.

hk11 · July 2014

We need a patch that allows vamps to insta-kill everyone for about a week.

Mescalamba · July 2014

change to HoT+DoT without channel (stuns only target that can be stunned)

hk11 wrote: »

We need a patch that allows vamps to insta-kill everyone for about a week.

I think players already hate successful vampires more then enough, no need to feed it more.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

Where is the "It's Just Fine Leave it Alone" choice?

My vampires both benefit a lot from being one and I'm fine with stuff that I can't stun being undrainable.

Put my Vampire Witch through the Master Wizard Mages Guild line at level 34. Just smoked the much higher level test. Oh gosh Haskill won't drain, oh dude, thanks for the adds.

Mortosk · July 2014

remove stun thus allowing to use it as any leech skill

Mescalamba wrote: »

Yea sorry about whine, but first vampire skill is one that simply leechs HP/stamina from enemy and does decent damage while you channel it. And only once per target!

Its horribly crippled, cause its tied to stun, which is also part of that skill, but unlike other skills (Nightblade ones for example) its tied that way that you CANT leech when target is immune to stun. Which as you can imagine is a LOT of enemies, including even some mobs.

Before they reverese patched, I couldnt even leech much from normal humanoids cause they used CC break and bye-bye my leech.

Since its one of primary vamp skills its usage is seriously limited due this. I came up with following solutions.

PS: Game has 5 active skill slots, so you really think hard before you add something in it. Would you use something that can give you HP/stamina ONCE per mob/fight and what cant be relied upon, since it might not work? Yea I guess you wouldnt. Skill selection can be easily difference between life and death.

Why did you put in the 4th option worded like that it undermines your poll.
You should have added an option that it keeps the stun and just refreshes the stun on a mob that is already stunned. It's a one time use per mob anyway so that wouldn't be unbalanced.

Mescalamba · July 2014

change to HoT+DoT without channel (stuns only target that can be stunned)

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Where is the "It's Just Fine Leave it Alone" choice?

My vampires both benefit a lot from being one and I'm fine with stuff that I can't stun being undrainable.

Put my Vampire Witch through the Master Wizard Mages Guild line at level 34. Just smoked the much higher level test. Oh gosh Haskill won't drain, oh dude, thanks for the adds.

Why.. hm, simply cause it could still be balanced but less PIA. Since this isnt really game much forgiving to mistakes, then player cant be much forgiving to non-reliable skills.

At lvl 34, sure you can. At VR12, you wont.

aipex8_ESO · July 2014

do nothing, vampire players should suffer cause they want to play vampires

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Put my Vampire Witch through the Master Wizard Mages Guild line at level 34. Just smoked the much higher level test. Oh gosh Haskill won't drain, oh dude, thanks for the adds.

I know right. I remember fighting Manimarco and wondering when he was going to summon those ghost adds again and being really glad when he did!

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Put my Vampire Witch through the Master Wizard Mages Guild line at level 34. Just smoked the much higher level test. Oh gosh Haskill won't drain, oh dude, thanks for the adds.

I know right. I remember fighting Manimarco and wondering when he was going to summon those ghost adds again and being really glad when he did!

Yup, it's my prayer. Please don't throw me in the briar patch don't spawn any adds.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

Mescalamba wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Where is the "It's Just Fine Leave it Alone" choice?

My vampires both benefit a lot from being one and I'm fine with stuff that I can't stun being undrainable.

Put my Vampire Witch through the Master Wizard Mages Guild line at level 34. Just smoked the much higher level test. Oh gosh Haskill won't drain, oh dude, thanks for the adds.

Why.. hm, simply cause it could still be balanced but less PIA. Since this isnt really game much forgiving to mistakes, then player cant be much forgiving to non-reliable skills.

At lvl 34, sure you can. At VR12, you wont.

You get to do that again?

I run all my 4 fighters well below their proper levels. My level 37, now 38 Battlemage just took FG Victor and we have a weapon that will do nothing till level 43. He handed me the PW and I looked at it, red, nice I guess, my level 36 Fire Staff hits 2 less, and I'll just put this away for now.

Mistakes? Come on if you can't deal with stuff not firing etc etc how would you have any idea about VR12.

Malpherian · July 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

You forgot an option:

* Make it like any other skill that can be used unlimited number of times per target based on mag/stam/whatever (Just like every other classes Stuns and Leach skills). While also ensuring that the skill leach can be used regardless of the monsters immunity to stun/cc/.

There.. Problem solved. Every other class has some sort of leach/stun that can be used infinitely. Why did you cripple the vampires trait line?

Now if that happened then the skill would be overpowered, and people would get killed way too easily by vampires. All they need to do is remove the inability to use it on a blocking target, and even make it non-cc breakable since it can't be spammed on the same target anyways.

Overpowered as opposed to being 1 shotted by silver bolts?

Honestly though I think the vampire and werewolf lines SHOULD be over powered. In fact I think whats in game now should be a preliminary to a questline that unlock a "Class" you can create a character with. Both for Vamps and WW's. and that class should be a Heroic Class and have OP skills. (Just like a DK in wow is OP in many ways, but still balanced)

I mean lets face it, the vampire in this game is NOTHING compared to the vamp in Skyrim, Morrowind, or Oblivion. Neither is the WW

They are both just sad jokes with gimped Traitlines.

I'm a vampire, I want to FEEEL like a vampire, Not:

AH HA I have you now my pretty... "Thwak"... What.... Silver Bolts? "dead".

Or

Leach to heal myself... what.... a one use skill that only gives me less then a quarter of my health?

Or

Mists, Need to Escape! What... it only lasts 2-3 seconds..... Damn "dead"

Or

Any number of other things.

Batswarm is nice...... But other then that tell me the actual benefits of being a Vampire?

Malpherian · July 2014

Many of the Vamp/WW skills SOUND cool, and even look cool, on paper, but in actually practice, Most if not all, Suck.

Mescalamba · July 2014

change to HoT+DoT without channel (stuns only target that can be stunned)

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Mescalamba wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Where is the "It's Just Fine Leave it Alone" choice?

My vampires both benefit a lot from being one and I'm fine with stuff that I can't stun being undrainable.

Put my Vampire Witch through the Master Wizard Mages Guild line at level 34. Just smoked the much higher level test. Oh gosh Haskill won't drain, oh dude, thanks for the adds.

Why.. hm, simply cause it could still be balanced but less PIA. Since this isnt really game much forgiving to mistakes, then player cant be much forgiving to non-reliable skills.

At lvl 34, sure you can. At VR12, you wont.

You get to do that again?

I run all my 4 fighters well below their proper levels. My level 37, now 38 Battlemage just took FG Victor and we have a weapon that will do nothing till level 43. He handed me the PW and I looked at it, red, nice I guess, my level 36 Fire Staff hits 2 less, and I'll just put this away for now.

Mistakes? Come on if you can't deal with stuff not firing etc etc how would you have any idea about VR12.

We have PTS, you know?

Apart from that, my wish is for game to work nicely at any level. Thus I'm pointing out some things that I find not-working-nicely. Deal with that.

By the way, if mobs (humanoids) work same way as they did before at VR, then good luck with this particular skill..

Mescalamba · July 2014

change to HoT+DoT without channel (stuns only target that can be stunned)

Malpherian wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

You forgot an option:

* Make it like any other skill that can be used unlimited number of times per target based on mag/stam/whatever (Just like every other classes Stuns and Leach skills). While also ensuring that the skill leach can be used regardless of the monsters immunity to stun/cc/.

There.. Problem solved. Every other class has some sort of leach/stun that can be used infinitely. Why did you cripple the vampires trait line?

Now if that happened then the skill would be overpowered, and people would get killed way too easily by vampires. All they need to do is remove the inability to use it on a blocking target, and even make it non-cc breakable since it can't be spammed on the same target anyways.

Overpowered as opposed to being 1 shotted by silver bolts?

Honestly though I think the vampire and werewolf lines SHOULD be over powered. In fact I think whats in game now should be a preliminary to a questline that unlock a "Class" you can create a character with. Both for Vamps and WW's. and that class should be a Heroic Class and have OP skills. (Just like a DK in wow is OP in many ways, but still balanced)

I mean lets face it, the vampire in this game is NOTHING compared to the vamp in Skyrim, Morrowind, or Oblivion. Neither is the WW

They are both just sad jokes with gimped Traitlines.

I'm a vampire, I want to FEEEL like a vampire, Not:

AH HA I have you now my pretty... "Thwak"... What.... Silver Bolts? "dead".

Or

Leach to heal myself... what.... a one use skill that only gives me less then a quarter of my health?

Or

Mists, Need to Escape! What... it only lasts 2-3 seconds..... Damn "dead"

Or

Any number of other things.

Batswarm is nice...... But other then that tell me the actual benefits of being a Vampire?

Small stam/magicka regen boost (not bad, not great). Undeath (not entirely sure it actually works). Faster movement in stealth (that one works, and is nice if you are nightblade). And that Ultimate, thats all.

Those two skills are not exactly useful, its not that bad as WereWolves, just close to it..

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

keep stun, but stuns only target that can be stunned, leechs from everything

Mescalamba wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

You forgot an option:

* Make it like any other skill that can be used unlimited number of times per target based on mag/stam/whatever (Just like every other classes Stuns and Leach skills). While also ensuring that the skill leach can be used regardless of the monsters immunity to stun/cc/.

There.. Problem solved. Every other class has some sort of leach/stun that can be used infinitely. Why did you cripple the vampires trait line?

Now if that happened then the skill would be overpowered, and people would get killed way too easily by vampires. All they need to do is remove the inability to use it on a blocking target, and even make it non-cc breakable since it can't be spammed on the same target anyways.

Overpowered as opposed to being 1 shotted by silver bolts?

Honestly though I think the vampire and werewolf lines SHOULD be over powered. In fact I think whats in game now should be a preliminary to a questline that unlock a "Class" you can create a character with. Both for Vamps and WW's. and that class should be a Heroic Class and have OP skills. (Just like a DK in wow is OP in many ways, but still balanced)

I mean lets face it, the vampire in this game is NOTHING compared to the vamp in Skyrim, Morrowind, or Oblivion. Neither is the WW

They are both just sad jokes with gimped Traitlines.

I'm a vampire, I want to FEEEL like a vampire, Not:

AH HA I have you now my pretty... "Thwak"... What.... Silver Bolts? "dead".

Or

Leach to heal myself... what.... a one use skill that only gives me less then a quarter of my health?

Or

Mists, Need to Escape! What... it only lasts 2-3 seconds..... Damn "dead"

Or

Any number of other things.

Batswarm is nice...... But other then that tell me the actual benefits of being a Vampire?

Small stam/magicka regen boost (not bad, not great). Undeath (not entirely sure it actually works). Faster movement in stealth (that one works, and is nice if you are nightblade). And that Ultimate, thats all.

Those two skills are not exactly useful, its not that bad as WereWolves, just close to it..

undeath is actually crap and the slayer trait pretty much negates the so called benefit of undeath. From 100% to 50% hp, vamps are taking 9% more from the lusted damage from every player other than lowbies who dont have the trait yet, and then undeath only gradually reaches 50% reduction as we get closer to death. The trait is worthless for pvp. Big hits dont even get recognized by undeath either. You can notice undeath ramping up when youre taking tiny hits, but when youre getting hit for 600's and higher the trait might as well be non-existant.

I get where @Mescalamba‌ is getting at tho. People have the ability to both long-range stun and possibly one-shot vampires and werewolves, while vamp and ww can do nothing of the sort to mortals. And even without silver bolts, as long as the slayer trait makes undeath poinless, and drain essense continues to have extremely limited usability, vampire is not that good. More flaws than pluses. sneaking faster and a bit higher stam/mag regen is all that is usefull in the long run.

iaintoff · July 2014

do nothing, vampire players should suffer cause they want to play vampires

Blooddancer wrote: »

To be honest Vamps are uber enough as it is, honestly you get advantages over non-vamps with minimal penalty.

I agree, I see many half decent vamps and some good ones causing lots of headaches which is fine they should not be allowed to creep back in to god mode.

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