Play how you want ... bad for an MMO good for a single person RPG
kitsinni
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We were all told Play How You Want!! Great idea but it just doesn't work for an MMO. In a single player RPG it is great and allows anyone to enjoy any style they want to play. In an MMO difficulty is set for the server, not individual players. This makes it impossible to balance without set roles. Other games have tried with varying results but almost all end up with more cookie cutter builds than the set roles have.
In ESO you have your class skills, race passives and the ability to mix in any variety you choose of weapon, guild, alliance, world, vampire, werewolf and armor skills and passives. I hate to say it but this will never be balanced. Some races/classes will always synergize better with the other skills/passives you can change at will. There is just no getting around that. The idea of Magicka and Stamina make the balance issue even worse by having certain skills scale with each and certain armor/weapons synergize with each.
As long as all class skills scale with Magicka, which also is buffed and synergizes with Light Armor and is also the resource used by staves you will never find true balance. This doesn't even touch the issue of Stamina being the fuel for all non-staff weapons and also being the resource needed for defense.
You also have the issue of trying to balance PvP and PvE. This game allows skills that are only obtainable through PvP to be used in PvE. Games with structured PvP had a hard enough time trying to balance it but large scale PvP mixed with every class being able to stealth, balancing small scale gank squads and zergs while every change made for PvP changes PvE and vice versa. This is truly a balance nightmare.
Play how you want is a very ambitious idea but it just doesn't work for an MMO. If we want the game to succeed we probably have to abandon the idea of it. No matter what FOTM build is nerfed a new one will pop up, it is just the nature of the beast. There are far too many combinations of skills to ever achieve true balance.
At this point the Devs have to make a difficult decision. Move towards the route of a traditional MMO which has more defined class roles or a never ending series of nerfs, adjustments and changes to content that I don’t believe can ever find true balance.
I'm really not sure what the point of this post is other than to say what I'm thinking I guess. Ok flame away!
In ESO you have your class skills, race passives and the ability to mix in any variety you choose of weapon, guild, alliance, world, vampire, werewolf and armor skills and passives. I hate to say it but this will never be balanced. Some races/classes will always synergize better with the other skills/passives you can change at will. There is just no getting around that. The idea of Magicka and Stamina make the balance issue even worse by having certain skills scale with each and certain armor/weapons synergize with each.
As long as all class skills scale with Magicka, which also is buffed and synergizes with Light Armor and is also the resource used by staves you will never find true balance. This doesn't even touch the issue of Stamina being the fuel for all non-staff weapons and also being the resource needed for defense.
You also have the issue of trying to balance PvP and PvE. This game allows skills that are only obtainable through PvP to be used in PvE. Games with structured PvP had a hard enough time trying to balance it but large scale PvP mixed with every class being able to stealth, balancing small scale gank squads and zergs while every change made for PvP changes PvE and vice versa. This is truly a balance nightmare.
Play how you want is a very ambitious idea but it just doesn't work for an MMO. If we want the game to succeed we probably have to abandon the idea of it. No matter what FOTM build is nerfed a new one will pop up, it is just the nature of the beast. There are far too many combinations of skills to ever achieve true balance.
At this point the Devs have to make a difficult decision. Move towards the route of a traditional MMO which has more defined class roles or a never ending series of nerfs, adjustments and changes to content that I don’t believe can ever find true balance.
I'm really not sure what the point of this post is other than to say what I'm thinking I guess. Ok flame away!
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've no intention of flaming, but I do disagree. I hate cookie-cutter MMOs where everyone looks the same, has the same skills, and plays the same way.
We are, after all, talking about MMORPGs, and everyone should be able to develop and play their character the way they choose. The only problem is when some people (and it's usually only a few) decide that the way they play is the only way they will accept anyone else playing. That's their problem, no-one else's.6 -
Azzuria✭✭✭✭✭I respectfully disagree. It may not be optimal to 'play your way' in an MMO but it's not a lost cause. It's difficult and some people who've grown up on cookie-cutter MMOs and their strick class / role formulae may not comprehend that unconventional is not necessarily bad.
In an MMO based on a wildly successful and open RPG like Elder Scrolls, only a free(ish) form skill and talent system would do justice to the game's legacy. That's not to say it's a perfect system. Far from it. But part of the problem, I believe, is in the minds of the players. Some people just assume that all Templars are healers and all healers are Templars and refuse to budge from that mindset. In a game where a Sorcerer can tank and a Nightblade can heal, all bets are off. Anything goes.
Balance is always a tricky thing in an MMO as there will always be builds that are better than others and players who are simply superior. You can't blame the game or the devs for differences in player ability. Any attempt to make everything 'balanced' will lead to a wishy-washy game where no one can stand out. Or, to quote 'The Incredibles', when everyone is special, no one is.
Brunhilda Icehammer - Nord Dragonknight, 'Smith & Enchantress 'What is 'ranged? I need to hit something!!'
Laehl Direthorn - Bosmer Nightblade, Purveyor of fine Clothes, Bows and Staves
Reeza gra-Zuni - Orc Templar 'War Shaman' and Apothecary
Noemi Snowpaw - Kajiit Dragon Knight - I laugh... or I'd have to kill you.
Kitera Dreamon - Breton of The Dominion: Because those Daggers don't appreciate a great Mage.
Lysara Shadowcroft - Dunmer Bloodmage: This will only hurt a lot.1 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've no intention of flaming, but I do disagree. I hate cookie-cutter MMOs where everyone looks the same, has the same skills, and plays the same way.
We are, after all, talking about MMORPGs, and everyone should be able to develop and play their character the way they choose. The only problem is when some people (and it's usually only a few) decide that the way they play is the only way they will accept anyone else playing. That's their problem, no-one else's.
I agree with this guy. The last few MMO's I played everyone found 1 top notch build and stuck with it. Vanity gear then becomes the only way to distinguish one person from the next. I like that I can mix and match armor, attack styles, rotations and everything. Doing a play your way may not be the best for min- max but honestly I am so much more invested in my character than in the other MMO's where I just look and play like everyone else.
Edited by ers101284b14_ESO on July 8, 2014 5:11PM2 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Don't get me wrong I want a play the way you want game, but the current game makes me think it just can't happen.
The last game I can think of that really did it well was SWG and even then there was a few specs that pretty much dominated the game. The saving grace of SWG was that you could loot truly epic weapons and armor that could make any spec great because of the gear. Here we have gear like a structured MMO and specs of a play the way you like.1 -
SaibotLiu✭✭✭✭I agree, there will never be balance. There are too many variables involved, too many moving pieces. But that's not a new thing for MMO's either. Play how you want is great and works for a lot of the player base. The problem is that a small portion of the players will not play how they want, they will play what someone else discovered and advertised as the optimal build(s). Low to average skill players playing copy cat build is what messes up the balance, and it will never change. Even in a game that they have to reroll a new character to keep up with what's best, they'll do it. A lot of the best players in the game will still "play how they want" and really shine in roles that are not optimal, but that segment of the player base is even smaller than FOTM try hards.
This is the reality, you either don't care, are skilled enough that you don't feel compelled to care, or you become one of them. It's not going away either way.
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Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Play how you want ... bad for an MMO
RUBBISH ! Play how you want would be fantastic for an MMO, even better for this one...IF... it had been implemented properly !
:OHigh Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !1 -
Lithion✭✭As long as all class skills scale with Magicka, which also is buffed and synergizes with Light Armor and is also the resource used by staves you will never find true balance.
This. A lot of playstyles feel unbalanced right now because magicka builds are so OP. If Zenimax can balance the magicka/light armor/staff issue, then we have a real shot at "playing the way we want"... within limits of course.
I just recently switched to a full light armor and magicka build for PvP and my effectiveness has at least doubled.0