Erock25 wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Currently, the Impenetrable Trait on armor is a bit too powerful when it comes to PVP. Putting Impenetrable on your four minor armor pieces basically negates someone who spends a lot more effort building for crit and the opportunity cost of the traits on those four pieces is very low. In fact, even the opportunity cost of all 7 pieces with Impenetrable isn't that high and that is 70% resistance to crits! Someone who builds for crit is using a skill slot (inner light), building their armor loadout (5 light or as much medium as possible), using Thief Mundus Stone, using racial passive (khajit), as well as armor traits (divines with Thief). All of that should not be wiped out with just armor trait selection.

The biggest issue for me personally is it is also completely negating the primary source of Sorc self heals. I know of no other armor trait that can harm a class so much. The quick and easy and logical fix for Impenetrable is to change it into Critical Damage Reduction. For example, at full legendary 7/7 Impenetrable armor, a critical hit would do the same damage as a non-critical, completely negating any additional damage. This would in essence be the same end result for someone stacking Impenetrable, but it would allow the Sorc to still heal because their attack would still be flagged as a critical, even though it was doing base damage.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Impenetrable has been overpowered since beta... 10 impenetrable/crit resist = 1% lower chance to be crit from tests done during beta PTS. So if the enemy has a 40% crit chance and you have sacrificed basically nothing to get 40% crit resist... they have no crit chance. It's very sadly broken in its current form. Traits as a whole really have needed to be gone over and buffed back up, with this particular one being brought down a bit, to make them competitive. However, we're here 3 months POST-launch now instead of 3 months PRE-launch and still have seen nothing about them.

You guys make it sound as if its compeltely reducing all damage. its just the chance to reduce the crit damage bonus, which is not the majority of the damage. A non crit will still hit for full damage. You also make it sound like a chosen few get to use this armor trait. its open to EVERYONE. if you choose use it and be defensive that your choice. Like someone else said, this game is already over the top damage heavy, we need more things like this to help counter it

There are two reasons to look at Impen

1. It is the clear cut choice for armor trait for everyone in PVP. If something is that far ahead as a favorite, it has to be looked at.

2. It completely shuts down the primary healing mechanic of an entire class.

Yet it is not the most used. most people still go offensive with infused or mundus.

The primary healing would be using a rejuv staff and casting heals. no spell where you damage an enemy should ever be relied on for primary heals, getting those heals is just a small perk.

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Currently, the Impenetrable Trait on armor is a bit too powerful when it comes to PVP. Putting Impenetrable on your four minor armor pieces basically negates someone who spends a lot more effort building for crit and the opportunity cost of the traits on those four pieces is very low. In fact, even the opportunity cost of all 7 pieces with Impenetrable isn't that high and that is 70% resistance to crits! Someone who builds for crit is using a skill slot (inner light), building their armor loadout (5 light or as much medium as possible), using Thief Mundus Stone, using racial passive (khajit), as well as armor traits (divines with Thief). All of that should not be wiped out with just armor trait selection.

The biggest issue for me personally is it is also completely negating the primary source of Sorc self heals. I know of no other armor trait that can harm a class so much. The quick and easy and logical fix for Impenetrable is to change it into Critical Damage Reduction. For example, at full legendary 7/7 Impenetrable armor, a critical hit would do the same damage as a non-critical, completely negating any additional damage. This would in essence be the same end result for someone stacking Impenetrable, but it would allow the Sorc to still heal because their attack would still be flagged as a critical, even though it was doing base damage.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Impenetrable has been overpowered since beta... 10 impenetrable/crit resist = 1% lower chance to be crit from tests done during beta PTS. So if the enemy has a 40% crit chance and you have sacrificed basically nothing to get 40% crit resist... they have no crit chance. It's very sadly broken in its current form. Traits as a whole really have needed to be gone over and buffed back up, with this particular one being brought down a bit, to make them competitive. However, we're here 3 months POST-launch now instead of 3 months PRE-launch and still have seen nothing about them.

You guys make it sound as if its compeltely reducing all damage. its just the chance to reduce the crit damage bonus, which is not the majority of the damage. A non crit will still hit for full damage. You also make it sound like a chosen few get to use this armor trait. its open to EVERYONE. if you choose use it and be defensive that your choice. Like someone else said, this game is already over the top damage heavy, we need more things like this to help counter it

There are two reasons to look at Impen

1. It is the clear cut choice for armor trait for everyone in PVP. If something is that far ahead as a favorite, it has to be looked at.

2. It completely shuts down the primary healing mechanic of an entire class.

Yet it is not the most used. most people still go offensive with infused or mundus.

The primary healing would be using a rejuv staff and casting heals. no spell where you damage an enemy should ever be relied on for primary heals, getting those heals is just a small perk.

It is the most used by anyone who knows what they're doing and has a pvp armor set. It would be crazy to take anything else.

So sorc is only class forced to use resto staff? Calling bull on this. Every class has their own ways to heal themselves in combat. Sorc is the only one that gets completely negated with a few no brainer trait choices.

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

No. People build too much for crit as it is (I personally think crit needs nerfed down a bit or capped) but no, having someone give up something offensive they could add to their armor to add crit protection is reasonable.

I wonder if people even read the original post or any that follow? The change I suggest still has Impenetrable traits giving crit protection. It just allows Sorc to still get their crits (for heals) even if those crits are doing normal attack damage. I just think it is bogus design to force Sorc into crit builds for self healing and then introduce armor traits with a low opportunity cost for PVP that completely negate it.

If you are talking about getting a crit for throwing down a healing circle and having your allies or yourself resist the crit, then yeah.

If you are talking crit strike and getting the heal for that crit strike even when the crit is resisted, then no. If someone resisted a crit strike, you didn't get the crit. I think it should be that way.

So you still didn't read it?

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

No. People build too much for crit as it is (I personally think crit needs nerfed down a bit or capped) but no, having someone give up something offensive they could add to their armor to add crit protection is reasonable.

I wonder if people even read the original post or any that follow? The change I suggest still has Impenetrable traits giving crit protection. It just allows Sorc to still get their crits (for heals) even if those crits are doing normal attack damage. I just think it is bogus design to force Sorc into crit builds for self healing and then introduce armor traits with a low opportunity cost for PVP that completely negate it.

If you are talking about getting a crit for throwing down a healing circle and having your allies or yourself resist the crit, then yeah.

If you are talking crit strike and getting the heal for that crit strike even when the crit is resisted, then no. If someone resisted a crit strike, you didn't get the crit. I think it should be that way.

So you still didn't read it?

Yes, which is why my first answer still applies. I don't think they should change this, if someone resists a crit, so be it. That person build something to counter your build, they gave up something to do so. You should not get a crit heal if you don't get a crit just because you build something for crit heals. (I've been able to survive with my sorc without using a build like that, it's not a requirement).

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

...
Nightblades especially, do have ridiculous amount of critical and critical damage, because of Ambush, passives and other abilities. New ambush with with the 5x bonus from stealth, on 120 spell power, 2300 magicka can one shoot almost every player right now. How fair is that?

...

Ambush only gives 3x damage bonus from Stealth.
It just seems higher because Nightblade has a passive that increases Spell Power stat by 10% while stealthed.
The actual sneak attack bonus modifier on Ambush is still only 3x though.

Since 1.2.3 is 5x not 3x.

No, it's not. I've tested it extensively since that rumor was started.

But to do everyone a favour so you stop spreading such misinformation, I'll go reproduce it again now:

Note: Master Assassin passive applies only when a Nightblade is in Sneak or under the effects of Shadow Cloak. The increase can be seen on the character sheet under the Spell Damage stat.

Standing Crit (Master Assassin not active): 527 damage

Crouched Crit (Master Assassin passive active; sneak attack modifier not active): 608 damage

Sneak Attack Crit (Master Assassin active; sneak attack modifier active): 1793 damage

Sneak Attack damage modifier is increasing the damage by 2.95x.

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

No. People build too much for crit as it is (I personally think crit needs nerfed down a bit or capped) but no, having someone give up something offensive they could add to their armor to add crit protection is reasonable.

I wonder if people even read the original post or any that follow? The change I suggest still has Impenetrable traits giving crit protection. It just allows Sorc to still get their crits (for heals) even if those crits are doing normal attack damage. I just think it is bogus design to force Sorc into crit builds for self healing and then introduce armor traits with a low opportunity cost for PVP that completely negate it.

If you are talking about getting a crit for throwing down a healing circle and having your allies or yourself resist the crit, then yeah.

If you are talking crit strike and getting the heal for that crit strike even when the crit is resisted, then no. If someone resisted a crit strike, you didn't get the crit. I think it should be that way.

So you still didn't read it?

Yes, which is why my first answer still applies. I don't think they should change this, if someone resists a crit, so be it. That person build something to counter your build, they gave up something to do so. You should not get a crit heal if you don't get a crit just because you build something for crit heals. (I've been able to survive with my sorc without using a build like that, it's not a requirement).

The four minor piece armor traits that Impenetrable users have to 'give up' to completely negate a Sorc self healing is negligible. It is like 80 magicka or stam total with infused traits. It is like having an armor trait that negates the heal NB gets when killing someone with their execute or while they are Mark Targeted, but also reduced all incoming damage by 20% so it was the trait of choice for pvp regardless if facing a NB or not.

A DK can survive without have Dragon Blood in their build, but does that mean there should be armor trait choices with a very low opportunity cost that completely negate Dragon Blood? NO

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Oh noes, players found a counter to my min/max crit building fotm build. Im marching straight to the forums posthaste to correct this situation.

Maybe ZOS doesn't want you to be as strong as you think you should be. There is nothing in the rulebook that says every class must have a functioning self heal. Adapt.

There is nothing FOTM when it comes to a Sorc stacking crit. It is just how it is played in most scenarios. You don't find it a little unbalanced that the trait choice on four minor armor pieces makes all Sorcerers change their playstyle for PVP?

Thank you for your advice, though, I and all other competent Sorc have adapted. I don't stack crit anymore in PVP and I use a resto staff. I just think it is ridiculous design to force Sorc to play without in combat self heals and if you could be at all objective about the situation, you would agree.

Changing Impenetrable to Crit Dmg Reduction changes nothing for the worse with the game. Four minor pieces of Impenetrable will still reduce the amount of dmg you take significantly. It will still be the best trait for PVP. It just won't completely negate a class from using one of its signature abilities and only significant source of in combat self heals.

Erock25 wrote: »

...

Changing Impenetrable to Crit Dmg Reduction changes nothing for the worse with the game. Four minor pieces of Impenetrable will still reduce the amount of dmg you take significantly. It will still be the best trait for PVP. It just won't completely negate a class from using one of its signature abilities and only significant source of in combat self heals.

Instead it will completely negate Burst Damage Nightblades that rely on Crit Heavy builds.
Currently with 50% base crit a Nightblade has an 80% chance to crit on someone with 7 pieces of Impenetrable, when the Nightblade is buffed with their 2.5 second crit buff.

Crit Damage reduction would completely destroy that capability. Unless Nightblade was modified to do significantly higher crit damage while buffed, you would be drastically nerfing Nightblade with this change.

Samadhi wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

...

Changing Impenetrable to Crit Dmg Reduction changes nothing for the worse with the game. Four minor pieces of Impenetrable will still reduce the amount of dmg you take significantly. It will still be the best trait for PVP. It just won't completely negate a class from using one of its signature abilities and only significant source of in combat self heals.

Instead it will completely negate Burst Damage Nightblades that rely on Crit Heavy builds.
Currently with 50% base crit a Nightblade has an 80% chance to crit on someone with 7 pieces of Impenetrable, when the Nightblade is buffed with their 2.5 second crit buff.

Crit Damage reduction would completely destroy that capability. Unless Nightblade was modified to do significantly higher crit damage while buffed, you would be drastically nerfing Nightblade with this change.

In the scheme of things, the only source of significant in combat self healing for a class is more important than one of many ways for NB to do dmg. Easy fix to this though would to change Shadowy Disguise so it gave +100 power or something similar to mimic what the crit dmg would be for the next attack.

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

No. People build too much for crit as it is (I personally think crit needs nerfed down a bit or capped) but no, having someone give up something offensive they could add to their armor to add crit protection is reasonable.

I wonder if people even read the original post or any that follow? The change I suggest still has Impenetrable traits giving crit protection. It just allows Sorc to still get their crits (for heals) even if those crits are doing normal attack damage. I just think it is bogus design to force Sorc into crit builds for self healing and then introduce armor traits with a low opportunity cost for PVP that completely negate it.

If you are talking about getting a crit for throwing down a healing circle and having your allies or yourself resist the crit, then yeah.

If you are talking crit strike and getting the heal for that crit strike even when the crit is resisted, then no. If someone resisted a crit strike, you didn't get the crit. I think it should be that way.

So you still didn't read it?

Yes, which is why my first answer still applies. I don't think they should change this, if someone resists a crit, so be it. That person build something to counter your build, they gave up something to do so. You should not get a crit heal if you don't get a crit just because you build something for crit heals. (I've been able to survive with my sorc without using a build like that, it's not a requirement).

The four minor piece armor traits that Impenetrable users have to 'give up' to completely negate a Sorc self healing is negligible. It is like 80 magicka or stam total with infused traits. It is like having an armor trait that negates the heal NB gets when killing someone with their execute or while they are Mark Targeted, but also reduced all incoming damage by 20% so it was the trait of choice for pvp regardless if facing a NB or not.

A DK can survive without have Dragon Blood in their build, but does that mean there should be armor trait choices with a very low opportunity cost that completely negate Dragon Blood? NO

There are more traits than just infused. Actually, if you are using infused on the smaller armor pieces like that, you should probably pick something else.

Also, comparing apples and oranges there. The DK heal is a self heal, that's it's only purpose, it does not also increase damage like crit surge. The two NB powers you mentioned only kick in when target dies and fight is over, so much less helpful than getting heals every crit, especially when you have a crit at 60%+ probably.

I'm sorry, but I just disagree with you. Someone uses that trait to resist your crit and you have to deal with it, try different builds, don't rely on that one thing, etc. That's the way the game should be IMO.

No I'm using divines but I always had issues quantifying just how much extra crit I was getting from divines + thief.

I don't think I'm comparing apples to oranges. I'm comparing the only significant means of in combat self healing to the only significant means of in combat self healing. I would be just fine with ZOS deleting Crit Surge if they gave us another means of in combat self healing.

Use entropy, use potions. I rely on funnel health, which is pretty similar to entropy (I also relied on entropy for my sorc) and potions and it works just fine. I'm sorry someone can counter one of your builds, but again... I think that's the way it should be. Your one build shouldn't be the answer to everything.

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

No. People build too much for crit as it is (I personally think crit needs nerfed down a bit or capped) but no, having someone give up something offensive they could add to their armor to add crit protection is reasonable.

I wonder if people even read the original post or any that follow? The change I suggest still has Impenetrable traits giving crit protection. It just allows Sorc to still get their crits (for heals) even if those crits are doing normal attack damage. I just think it is bogus design to force Sorc into crit builds for self healing and then introduce armor traits with a low opportunity cost for PVP that completely negate it.

If you are talking about getting a crit for throwing down a healing circle and having your allies or yourself resist the crit, then yeah.

If you are talking crit strike and getting the heal for that crit strike even when the crit is resisted, then no. If someone resisted a crit strike, you didn't get the crit. I think it should be that way.

So you still didn't read it?

Yes, which is why my first answer still applies. I don't think they should change this, if someone resists a crit, so be it. That person build something to counter your build, they gave up something to do so. You should not get a crit heal if you don't get a crit just because you build something for crit heals. (I've been able to survive with my sorc without using a build like that, it's not a requirement).

The four minor piece armor traits that Impenetrable users have to 'give up' to completely negate a Sorc self healing is negligible. It is like 80 magicka or stam total with infused traits. It is like having an armor trait that negates the heal NB gets when killing someone with their execute or while they are Mark Targeted, but also reduced all incoming damage by 20% so it was the trait of choice for pvp regardless if facing a NB or not.

A DK can survive without have Dragon Blood in their build, but does that mean there should be armor trait choices with a very low opportunity cost that completely negate Dragon Blood? NO

There are more traits than just infused. Actually, if you are using infused on the smaller armor pieces like that, you should probably pick something else.

Also, comparing apples and oranges there. The DK heal is a self heal, that's it's only purpose, it does not also increase damage like crit surge. The two NB powers you mentioned only kick in when target dies and fight is over, so much less helpful than getting heals every crit, especially when you have a crit at 60%+ probably.

I'm sorry, but I just disagree with you. Someone uses that trait to resist your crit and you have to deal with it, try different builds, don't rely on that one thing, etc. That's the way the game should be IMO.

No I'm using divines but I always had issues quantifying just how much extra crit I was getting from divines + thief.

I don't think I'm comparing apples to oranges. I'm comparing the only significant means of in combat self healing to the only significant means of in combat self healing. I would be just fine with ZOS deleting Crit Surge if they gave us another means of in combat self healing.

Use entropy, use potions. I rely on funnel health, which is pretty similar to entropy (I also relied on entropy for my sorc) and potions and it works just fine. I'm sorry someone can counter one of your builds, but again... I think that's the way it should be. Your one build shouldn't be the answer to everything.

Entropy heals are very minor and 6 seconds a part. You mean to tell me you didn't use Marked Target or Killer's Blade on your NB? I find it funny you say the one build shouldn't be the answer to everything because as times goes on, and more people realize what impenetrable brings to the table in PVP compared to the alternatives, that one build will be the answer to nothing. You know another easy way to counter Crit Surge? CC the Sorc. Damage Shields. Line of Sight. I'm perfectly fine with someone countering a crit build, but countering it with armor traits that also help them the best in all situations of PVP is ridiculous.

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

No. People build too much for crit as it is (I personally think crit needs nerfed down a bit or capped) but no, having someone give up something offensive they could add to their armor to add crit protection is reasonable.

I wonder if people even read the original post or any that follow? The change I suggest still has Impenetrable traits giving crit protection. It just allows Sorc to still get their crits (for heals) even if those crits are doing normal attack damage. I just think it is bogus design to force Sorc into crit builds for self healing and then introduce armor traits with a low opportunity cost for PVP that completely negate it.

If you are talking about getting a crit for throwing down a healing circle and having your allies or yourself resist the crit, then yeah.

If you are talking crit strike and getting the heal for that crit strike even when the crit is resisted, then no. If someone resisted a crit strike, you didn't get the crit. I think it should be that way.

So you still didn't read it?

Yes, which is why my first answer still applies. I don't think they should change this, if someone resists a crit, so be it. That person build something to counter your build, they gave up something to do so. You should not get a crit heal if you don't get a crit just because you build something for crit heals. (I've been able to survive with my sorc without using a build like that, it's not a requirement).

The four minor piece armor traits that Impenetrable users have to 'give up' to completely negate a Sorc self healing is negligible. It is like 80 magicka or stam total with infused traits. It is like having an armor trait that negates the heal NB gets when killing someone with their execute or while they are Mark Targeted, but also reduced all incoming damage by 20% so it was the trait of choice for pvp regardless if facing a NB or not.

A DK can survive without have Dragon Blood in their build, but does that mean there should be armor trait choices with a very low opportunity cost that completely negate Dragon Blood? NO

There are more traits than just infused. Actually, if you are using infused on the smaller armor pieces like that, you should probably pick something else.

Also, comparing apples and oranges there. The DK heal is a self heal, that's it's only purpose, it does not also increase damage like crit surge. The two NB powers you mentioned only kick in when target dies and fight is over, so much less helpful than getting heals every crit, especially when you have a crit at 60%+ probably.

I'm sorry, but I just disagree with you. Someone uses that trait to resist your crit and you have to deal with it, try different builds, don't rely on that one thing, etc. That's the way the game should be IMO.

No I'm using divines but I always had issues quantifying just how much extra crit I was getting from divines + thief.

I don't think I'm comparing apples to oranges. I'm comparing the only significant means of in combat self healing to the only significant means of in combat self healing. I would be just fine with ZOS deleting Crit Surge if they gave us another means of in combat self healing.

Use entropy, use potions. I rely on funnel health, which is pretty similar to entropy (I also relied on entropy for my sorc) and potions and it works just fine. I'm sorry someone can counter one of your builds, but again... I think that's the way it should be. Your one build shouldn't be the answer to everything.

Entropy heals are very minor and 6 seconds a part. You mean to tell me you didn't use Marked Target or Killer's Blade on your NB? I find it funny you say the one build shouldn't be the answer to everything because as times goes on, and more people realize what impenetrable brings to the table in PVP compared to the alternatives, that one build will be the answer to nothing. You know another easy way to counter Crit Surge? CC the Sorc. Damage Shields. Line of Sight. I'm perfectly fine with someone countering a crit build, but countering it with armor traits that also help them the best in all situations of PVP is ridiculous.

I don't. Don't care for marked target and I use Impale instead of Killer's blade. I rely on potions and funnel health for self heals.

Crit builds are OP as they are, I think there should be a counter to them and I hope more people build to counter it. Unless they decide to soft cap crit I wouldn't want to see Impenetrable changed.

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

No. People build too much for crit as it is (I personally think crit needs nerfed down a bit or capped) but no, having someone give up something offensive they could add to their armor to add crit protection is reasonable.

I wonder if people even read the original post or any that follow? The change I suggest still has Impenetrable traits giving crit protection. It just allows Sorc to still get their crits (for heals) even if those crits are doing normal attack damage. I just think it is bogus design to force Sorc into crit builds for self healing and then introduce armor traits with a low opportunity cost for PVP that completely negate it.

If you are talking about getting a crit for throwing down a healing circle and having your allies or yourself resist the crit, then yeah.

If you are talking crit strike and getting the heal for that crit strike even when the crit is resisted, then no. If someone resisted a crit strike, you didn't get the crit. I think it should be that way.

So you still didn't read it?

Yes, which is why my first answer still applies. I don't think they should change this, if someone resists a crit, so be it. That person build something to counter your build, they gave up something to do so. You should not get a crit heal if you don't get a crit just because you build something for crit heals. (I've been able to survive with my sorc without using a build like that, it's not a requirement).

The four minor piece armor traits that Impenetrable users have to 'give up' to completely negate a Sorc self healing is negligible. It is like 80 magicka or stam total with infused traits. It is like having an armor trait that negates the heal NB gets when killing someone with their execute or while they are Mark Targeted, but also reduced all incoming damage by 20% so it was the trait of choice for pvp regardless if facing a NB or not.

A DK can survive without have Dragon Blood in their build, but does that mean there should be armor trait choices with a very low opportunity cost that completely negate Dragon Blood? NO

There are more traits than just infused. Actually, if you are using infused on the smaller armor pieces like that, you should probably pick something else.

Also, comparing apples and oranges there. The DK heal is a self heal, that's it's only purpose, it does not also increase damage like crit surge. The two NB powers you mentioned only kick in when target dies and fight is over, so much less helpful than getting heals every crit, especially when you have a crit at 60%+ probably.

I'm sorry, but I just disagree with you. Someone uses that trait to resist your crit and you have to deal with it, try different builds, don't rely on that one thing, etc. That's the way the game should be IMO.

No I'm using divines but I always had issues quantifying just how much extra crit I was getting from divines + thief.

I don't think I'm comparing apples to oranges. I'm comparing the only significant means of in combat self healing to the only significant means of in combat self healing. I would be just fine with ZOS deleting Crit Surge if they gave us another means of in combat self healing.

Use entropy, use potions. I rely on funnel health, which is pretty similar to entropy (I also relied on entropy for my sorc) and potions and it works just fine. I'm sorry someone can counter one of your builds, but again... I think that's the way it should be. Your one build shouldn't be the answer to everything.

Entropy heals are very minor and 6 seconds a part. You mean to tell me you didn't use Marked Target or Killer's Blade on your NB? I find it funny you say the one build shouldn't be the answer to everything because as times goes on, and more people realize what impenetrable brings to the table in PVP compared to the alternatives, that one build will be the answer to nothing. You know another easy way to counter Crit Surge? CC the Sorc. Damage Shields. Line of Sight. I'm perfectly fine with someone countering a crit build, but countering it with armor traits that also help them the best in all situations of PVP is ridiculous.

I don't. Don't care for marked target and I use Impale instead of Killer's blade. I rely on potions and funnel health for self heals.

Crit builds are OP as they are, I think there should be a counter to them and I hope more people build to counter it. Unless they decide to soft cap crit I wouldn't want to see Impenetrable changed.

I see that you won't change your mind and I thank you for being civil. I hate you and everything you stand for because you don't agree with my infallible logic, but that's how the internet goes I guess.