A lot of people fail to understand this is an MMO and grouping should be encouraged.

If they nerf future content because a minority want to play with / by themselves and not communicate with anyone outside of the odd instanced dungeon I'd rather said individuals up and go back to single player gaming, because ultimately that's what they want.

I'm all for solo friendly content and whatnot, and aside from a few odd public dungeons / hard quests I found my veteran rank 1-5 zones experience relatively solo friendly. Requesting help with world bosses and dolmens isn't a bad thing.

I had no problem going from v1 to v12 solo. Yes mobs are harder to kill, but roflstomping everything isn't that fun either. And i totally agree with the OP that no one is going to get grouping skills and friends and people will complain at v10.

Phantax wrote: »

Dungeons, Anchors, Trials, PvP, Raids (if we had any) and open world Bosses should be an MMO's grouping content.
Questing and Storyline should be solo content (group if you want though)

That's the way it was, the way it is and the way it should be !

This. Grouping for quests is just too inconvenient. I get what ZOS was going for, but it just doesn't work. Hopefully they keep the delves, dolmens, world bosses, etc. at a more challenging level either for people who like the solo challenge or for the casuals to group for.

Provided they don't touch Craglorn I'm happy
Agree about Dolmens, Dungeons, WB's, Trials, etc... Make these even harder I say!

Phantax wrote: »

Dungeons, Anchors, Trials, PvP, Raids (if we had any) and open world Bosses should be an MMO's grouping content.
Questing and Storyline should be solo content (group if you want though)

That's the way it was, the way it is and the way it should be !

Its not the way it was, nor the way it is or should be. I wish you new kids that grew up with WOTLK would had actually played other MMO´s including Vanilla to understand this better.

Leveling content has always been a mix of group and solo. It prepared players for the real challenges at max level.

The 1-50 is already faceroll and you learn nothing, no social or gaming skills, if they now dump down the VR content, we will have thousands of clueless people at VR 12 not knowing what a dodge, block or another player is.

In the end ZO is hurting the honest Casuals most, as they will hit a brick wall at VR 12 when nobody wants them in their trial or dungeon group as they simply said don't fulfill the high requirements.

Besides that everyone who is solo or in a small group will be out of content faster as they can say beep. The solution will be a daily quest grind that has already started with Crag.

It is beyond me how someone can like that or actually think that this is how an MMO should be. That said, the new generation of gamers seems to have very low standards to games these days and its a real shame as it ruins fun especially for older gamers who know what a real game should look like.

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

I had no problems either, but it's pretty obvious from all the forum feedback and the fact that the zones are dead, that we are in the minority. They've got to do what's best for the life of the game, and I think this was the right decision.

If it's so obvious, why has pretty much every poll on the subject gone in the other direction? where is this feedback that no one can cite? the fact of the matter is that the people with the problem are in fact in the minority of the people that actually provide feedback.

The zones being dead is due to the fact that players always seek out the path of least resistance and better reward (that right now is craglorn when you can grind out massive amounts of experience and rewards in a short time) no other content in this game compares.

If they were really interested in what's best for the life of the game, they wouldn't be making the same mistake that every other mmo that has hemorrhaged subscribers has done.

They need to start by addressing the experience gains and giving more levels to the zones. 1-50 had a great pace but terrible rewards, vr 1-10 did not have a great pace or great rewards. Then they need to work on addressing the rewards. They have a perfectly fine stick, a line that needs work and no carrot. Where's the carrot in this game? that's what people want.

If veteran zones actually encompassed more levels, it would feel less of a grind and more of actually progressing. Each zone should've been at least 5 levels and I say that loosely.

They need to do the same for pvp. Because pvp experience and rewards are a joke as well. They have no stick or carrot in pvp, just a line to hang yourself with.

Granted some veteran mobs need to be tweaked. Harvesters and gargoyles are ridiculous by yourself. Archers are a problem too(it's a shame that an npc archer out performs a player archer by leaps and bounds and they're scripted)

But to nerf difficulty before addressing the issues with class, weapon, armor imbalances, CC breaks and interrupts is equal to throwing the baby out with the bath water and then running the baby over.

Did the OP really need to make two threads discussing 'easy mode veteran zones'? Would not your complaint be better served keeping everyone focused on one thread?

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Dungeons, Anchors, Trials, PvP, Raids (if we had any) and open world Bosses should be an MMO's grouping content.
Questing and Storyline should be solo content (group if you want though)

That's the way it was, the way it is and the way it should be !

This. Grouping for quests is just too inconvenient. I get what ZOS was going for, but it just doesn't work. Hopefully they keep the delves, dolmens, world bosses, etc. at a more challenging level either for people who like the solo challenge or for the casuals to group for.

yes yes yes some thing for everyone, Advance content to well organized groups with strong builds AND the ability to level for those solo with less optimal builds ... unless they can figure out how scale enemy's for the number of players togather, its all ways gonna be balancing act. One thing is true, if the majority drops subscriptions because the reward to difficulty ratio is too low, there wont be an ESO as we know it in a year.

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

They need to start by addressing the experience gains and giving more levels to the zones. 1-50 had a great pace but terrible rewards, vr 1-10 did not have a great pace or great rewards. Then they need to work on addressing the rewards. They have a perfectly fine stick, a line that needs work and no carrot. Where's the carrot in this game? that's what people want.

Granted some veteran mobs need to be tweaked. Harvesters and gargoyles are ridiculous by yourself. Archers are a problem too(it's a shame that an npc archer out performs a player archer by leaps and bounds and they're scripted)

But to nerf difficulty before addressing the issues with class, weapon, armor imbalances, CC breaks and interrupts is equal to throwing the baby out with the bath water and then running the baby over.

I pretty much have to agree. After running a DK, then NB through vet levels. Beside from the obvious content (dolemans/group dungeons), most everything else was solo capable. I did have to get creative with my spell/weapon lineup, and there were a few mobs/bosses that I did need help with or took me a few tries altering my strategy. Some of the vet levels is simply not button mashable friendly

Alas, if vet levels get easier .. at least getting skill points on alts will also be easier!

They should just grant an account wide achievement that's reward is increased XP gains up to a cap level say Vet 10 today. They can raise that as new content comes out but always a level or 2 behind...

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

I had no problems either, but it's pretty obvious from all the forum feedback and the fact that the zones are dead, that we are in the minority. They've got to do what's best for the life of the game, and I think this was the right decision.

If it's so obvious, why has pretty much every poll on the subject gone in the other direction? where is this feedback that no one can cite? the fact of the matter is that the people with the problem are in fact in the minority of the people that actually provide feedback.

The zones being dead is due to the fact that players always seek out the path of least resistance and better reward (that right now is craglorn when you can grind out massive amounts of experience and rewards in a short time) no other content in this game compares.

If they were really interested in what's best for the life of the game, they wouldn't be making the same mistake that every other mmo that has hemorrhaged subscribers has done.

They need to start by addressing the experience gains and giving more levels to the zones. 1-50 had a great pace but terrible rewards, vr 1-10 did not have a great pace or great rewards. Then they need to work on addressing the rewards. They have a perfectly fine stick, a line that needs work and no carrot. Where's the carrot in this game? that's what people want.

If veteran zones actually encompassed more levels, it would feel less of a grind and more of actually progressing. Each zone should've been at least 5 levels and I say that loosely.

They need to do the same for pvp. Because pvp experience and rewards are a joke as well. They have no stick or carrot in pvp, just a line to hang yourself with.

Granted some veteran mobs need to be tweaked. Harvesters and gargoyles are ridiculous by yourself. Archers are a problem too(it's a shame that an npc archer out performs a player archer by leaps and bounds and they're scripted)

But to nerf difficulty before addressing the issues with class, weapon, armor imbalances, CC breaks and interrupts is equal to throwing the baby out with the bath water and then running the baby over.

Great post.

You don't have to be forced to group to make friends in a game. All you need is a social attitude. That's why there's such a thing as zone chat. You can join a social guild and level solo if you wish. By the time you get to VR10, you should have chatted with your guildies long enough for some of them to be willing to group up with you to do stuff.

Where did ZOS say they were going to easy mode? A reduction of stupidly high levels of difficulty does not indicate that. Additionally, as PVE player who loves the world and the questing, but objects to having to group with what often proves to be jerks, anything they can do to make this game difficult but soloable is a step in the right direction.

Stop screaming before your ox is gored, and this constant whine that an MMO has to be done in groups.

Well for one thing, just because you dont want to group 100% of the time doesn't mean you don't know how. Craglorn = 100% grouping.

I have done all the grouping/raiding and after 15 years I prefer not having it shoved down my throat so to speak.

There are lots like me who just want to login and play a bit at their own pace, actually there are more and more like me as the MMO players age the raid/group hardcore mentally falls to the wayside .

Yes I still group when I have the time but mostly I dont want to spend my playing time trying to find and hold a group together.

To the people who think just because some of us prefer to solo that we have no skills, well you are just plain wrong , we were the Tanks/Mob controllers/Healers of other MMOs. You will be there some day too, we all age and if ZOS plans on not have soloable content past Vr10 then this game will suffer a great loss of Veteran players that still love to play MMOs but not in the way they did in the past.

The_Sadist wrote: »

A lot of people fail to understand this is an MMO and grouping should be encouraged.

If they nerf future content because a minority want to play with / by themselves and not communicate with anyone outside of the odd instanced dungeon I'd rather said individuals up and go back to single player gaming, because ultimately that's what they want.

I'm all for solo friendly content and whatnot, and aside from a few odd public dungeons / hard quests I found my veteran rank 1-5 zones experience relatively solo friendly. Requesting help with world bosses and dolmens isn't a bad thing.

There are so many misconceptions in this post that I don't even know where to begin. First and foremost, this MMO allows you to play alongside and even with other players if you choose to do so. This particular MMO has had very few elements that absolutely require people to group with other people, with the Craglorn trials and some group dungeons being the only content in this game which mandate a specific number of people. All of the other content in this game can be completed by solo players, although some of it will be very, very difficult to do so. It has always been that way given how this game is based on a single player series, which some people seem to forget. Also, you seem to think that MMO means everything is designed for and should only be tackled by groups. You could not be more wrong.

Then there is your belief that a minority has complained about the difficulty of the Veteran content. I don't know what constitutes a minority for you; but the vast majority of complaints about the Veteran content has been its difficulty and there have been dozens, maybe even hundreds, of threads here and elsewhere complaining about that difficulty. The prevailing sentiment about Veteran content has not been that it is too easy or even just right for Goldilocks.

Consequently, the current difficulty of Veteran content has completely decimated the upper Veteran zones. There is simply no one around in them to group with even if someone wanted to group up. I spent an hour late yesterday afternoon using zone chat to solicit help with a world boss in my VR 9 zone. I received nothing but silence and no assistance whatsoever. Why should people be excluded from content because population numbers are next to zero due the masses being scared off by the difficulty? Where were these people like yourself who claim they prefer grouping but then refuse to group with others?

To further illustrate my point about the dead Veteran zones, I completed about 15 VR8-VR10 solo delves over several hours last night. I completed all of them solo except for one as another player entered one of them a few seconds before I did. I encountered one other player who was leaving one of them as I was entering and there was an instance where I was the one exiting as he was entering. When you cross paths with three people while going through around 15 delves, there is a serious population problem which ZOS had to address. Not doing anything or making the content more solo-unfriendly simply were not options here. ZOS had to do something and I support this decision.

Also, until we see and experience the changes, we have very little right to complain about them. For hardcore players, they may not even notice much of a change. Yet for people who have been struggling, they might just be able to survive and enjoy the game. Surely you can put aside your own desires and want the game to succeed by attracting and entertaining as many people as possible.

Innocent wrote: »

* Population plays 1-50 pretty much solo, makes no grouping friends. Gains no grouping skills.

* Population reaches very hard Veteran Zone content, needs friends, does not have any. Has no grouping skills.

* Population raises hue and cry that Veteran Zone content is 'to hard'.

* Zenimax lowers content in Veteran Zones for easy-mode solo play.

* Population plays VR1 - VR10 pretty much solo, makes no grouping friends. Gains no grouping skills.

* Population reaches very hard Veteran VR11-V12 content, needs friends, does not have any. Has no grouping skills.

* Population raises hue and cry that VR11 -VR12 content is to hard.

* Zenimax realizes it has replicated the WoW leveling experience, not in 10 years, but in three to six months. Prepares to make VR11-VR12 content single player friendly.

The problem with your statements here is that your making the same mistakes most elitist do with your statement and point (And you all make a lot concerning game development).

The mistakes are simple:

1. The game, isn't all about you, and your cookie cutter build.

2. Your assumption that no one has tried to do VR content "As a group", would be wrong. One of the major issues is that even with a group, the content is almost impossible to complete "Without" > a cookie cutter forced only one build works, mentality.

* Currently if your not in Light armor with a destroy staff, your NOT getting in a group. Nightblade? Don't even think about it, this entire class is not allowed in VR dungeon groups.

3. Your assumption that Hell Mode, and "Inferno Mode", has any place in a TES game.

* TES as a franchise is not and never has been about Supper difficult Elitest content. It "HAS" always been about RP, Exploration, Immersion, Lore, and Character development.

If your looking for the type of content that makes you want to break your computer in frustration due to difficulty, you should be playing Darksouls games, Not TES games.

4. Groups are not happening anyway, 1-50 or in VR content. Making content more difficult does not encourage people to group. It just pisses people off. If you want people to group, make group finding tools that work and don't have 15 hour que times.


That being said,

You have to have people actually playing in the VR areas, in order to get any type of group. Which is currently, NOT happening, the VR areas are ghost towns with no one doing the VR stuff because of the difficulty level even "if" and "while" attempting it in groups, is insane.

Let alone the nightmare it is for solo individuals without a very specific Cookie Cutter Build. (Which goes against the "Play the game as whatever you want" mentality of ESO anyway).

As others have said, having to adapt is one thing, being forced to entirely respec your class to one of a very few set of very specific rotations builds and gear sets utterly destroys the point of the customizable play as you want system which ESO touts.

So either way the current VR system is utterly broken, and this change is undoubtedly a good one..