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Issues with Forward Camps in Cyrodiil

Perphection
Perphection
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@ZOS_jessicaFolsom @ZOS_ginaBruno I thought I'd try to post some constructive feedback for a change.

The reason being, is that I want this game to succeed.

I love this game, but I'm upset with the current state of PvP and many of the issues associated with it.

At the end of the day though, I want to help make this a BETTER game.

With PvP essentially being the "End Game" of ESO it's important to monitor the overall health of PvP in Cyrodiil, and more importantly the enjoyment had by players.

So without further ado here are the issues that myself, and others have with Forward Camps and the effect they've had on PvP.



Pros of Forward Camps:

1. Allows instant gratification, and immediate access to a fight.
2. Allows players to loosely defend keeps and objectives.
3. Players can receive immediate reinforcements from anywhere on the
map.


Cons of Forward Camps:

1. Eliminates the possibility of cutting off enemy reinforcements.
2. Promotes only large scale combat.
3. Drastically reduces the amount of small scale combat, and effectively removes the benefit of roaming, havoc squads, beat squads, whatever you would like to call the skirmishers of the game.

(Prior to the over abundant use of Forward Camps, small groups were highly beneficial to the overall war effort. They utilized choke points and terrain to thin out the returning attackers. They provided insight to the movement of enemy troops. They took resource nodes for the larger force. They had a purpose.)


Current Issues with Forward Camps:

1. They can be placed on the top of towers in Resource Nodes.
2. They can be placed on top of Resource Flags.
3. Players can suicide into enemy guards and spawn at Forward Camps spread throughout the map.
4. Forward camps allow Keeps to be reinforced with players almost immediately with little to no effort.


(e.g. Keep is under heavy siege and the Wayshrine is taken offline, any
player in the keep can simply toss up a Forward Camp, call for help in zone chat, and friendly players will then purposely kill themselves to re-spawn at said Forward Camp.)


5. Forward camps diminish the importance of self preservation and strategic gameplay.
6. Forward camps drastically reduce the importance of utilizing the
AMAZING terrain Zenimax has created. Players bypass Mile Gates, Bridges, Passes, and Valleys then drop a Forward Camp. Ultimately defeating the purpose of having choke points.

How many of you remember having incredible battles on the bridge South
of Sejanus in Beta?
How many of you remember having epic battles at the Mile Gate up near
Bleakers?

So much of the games terrain is underutilized due to the ease of
access to Forward Camps.



Suggestions:

1. Signifcantly increase the cost of Forward Camps. A forward camp
should not be something you can always rely on.
2. Make it so that you can ONLY spawn at a forward camp IF you die
within it's radius.

(This would remove the ability to reinforce keeps at a moments notice
and overrun the opposition. Providing more of a fair fight and
increasing the importance of defending, scouting, and attacking key
objectives.)


***********************************************************************************
I'm sure that all of us have abused some of the current Forward Camp mechanics at some point, and can agree that not only are they are highly beneficial but also exceptionally convenient.

I'm also sure, that at some point, all of us have experienced a time where the enemy uses these mechanics against us.

You've sieged through both the outer and inner walls, you're rushing through trying to capture the keep when suddenly.. the enemy drops a Forward Camp. The Emperor shows up with 20 people out of thin air and drops 12 Standards. You're pushed out of the keep, another Forward Camp is dropped and you're now outnumbered 3:1

The current Forward Camp Mechanics disrupt the balance of PvP.

Making
Ease of Access and Convenience > Strategy


Anyway, thanks for reading. I apologize for the length of my post, but it was necessary to properly convey my thoughts and ideas on the matter.
Edited by Perphection on July 4, 2014 1:59PM
  • deadface60_ESO
    No one is ever happy are they? Nothing but bitching and complaining. They fixed the camps, now you're not happy with it?

    There's no pleasing these kids I guess.
  • Perphection
    Perphection
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    Yeah, I saw that after I made this post. Glad there are other people who agree the current mechanics with Forward Camps is a little bit out of line.
  • Perphection
    Perphection
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    No one is ever happy are they? Nothing but bitching and complaining. They fixed the camps, now you're not happy with it?

    There's no pleasing these kids I guess.

    I'm actually being constructive for a change. I'm not QQ'ing in this thread, I'm making suggestions on what would ultimately benefit PvP.

    As you may know the first iteration of something isn't necessarily the best. If that were the case why do we continually upgrade our computers? Our light bulbs? Change certain features of a car? Because new information is available, and to not use that information to improve upon the current design is ignorant and illogical.
    Edited by Perphection on July 4, 2014 3:14PM
  • Talcyndl
    Talcyndl
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    No one is ever happy are they? Nothing but bitching and complaining. They fixed the camps, now you're not happy with it?

    There's no pleasing these kids I guess.

    Then stop bitching and complaining about threads. ;)

    Especially, with threads like this...there is no "ZOS are morons" QQ tone here. Simply some valid and reasoned criticisms of one aspect of the game mechanics.

    If you disagree with the criticisms and suggestions, say why.
    Tal'gro Bol
    PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
    http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/
  • Mojomonkeyman
    Mojomonkeyman
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    Well he has a point. The increased usage of those camps certainly reduced the number of spots on the map where small scale fights are bound to happen.

    It bypasses the wayshrine/point porting system and therefore its impact (I think the wayshrine/point porting is well thought out and they made it synergize pretty well with the terrain on the map - it makes sense) on the game experience.

    It really does promote zerging by a lot, in my experience during the past weeks.

    Best Regards
    Edited by Mojomonkeyman on July 4, 2014 7:06PM
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy
  • Perphection
    Perphection
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    Yeah, the fact that it bypasses the Wayshrine is by far the most concerning issue I have with it. Transportation is CUT, yet still it doesn't matter anymore.
  • Perphection
    Perphection
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    Shameless. This needs to be addressed.
  • badmojo
    badmojo
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    The only thing I don't like about them is being able to spawn on them(and unconnected keeps) from across the map. You should have to be within a range of the camp/keep in order to spawn on it.
    [DC/NA]
  • ArconSeptim
    ArconSeptim
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    They soo hot ladies let them drink their drink on this Hot Sunday :D
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